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Discussion Has Skill Disappeared From Football?, Calcio Debate: Is Baggio Right

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TSkueks
post Apr 1 2008, 07:46 PM, updated 18y ago

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http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=641500

Italy legend Roberto Baggio launched a scathing attack against the modern game at the weekend, saying that all the skill was being replaced by pace and power. Carlo Garganese asks if the former European and World Footballer of the Year is right...

What has happened to the beautiful game? There used to be a time when the first thing a footballer was judged by was his technical ability.

After this, the order of importance would be tactical, mental, and then finally physical qualities. This was the process that was used in most European countries, although not in all. England has always been an exception, something I can vouch for personally as I was released by Luton Town (who had then just been relegated from the top-flight) as a skillful teenager because I was told I was "too small, short, and weak".

Ever since this time I have always held the view that, not only the English youth system, but English football as a whole, has totally neglected skill and natural talent, in favour of pace, power, strength and other physical attributes. Indeed this helps explain why the country has always been so dreadfully poor on a technical level.

While England has always placed physical attributes as the primary consideration when judging a player, other European countries, such as Spain and Italy, have traditionally favored the aforementioned technical aspect.

Sadly, the way the game is evolving, it seems that there is an inevitable process in place whereby the blood-and-thunder English way is becoming the norm throughout Europe.

"It is all much faster and more difficult now," blasted Baggio.

"In the 1990s it was more than the 80s, now even more than the 90s. It is the evolution of the sport and we have to follow it. However, one cannot criticize a player for trying a backheel during a game. Are we crazy?"

People that play today are - in most cases- athletes first, and footballers second. The desire to become quicker, fitter and stronger is destroying the game. All the skill, as Baggio says, is disappearing.

The classic 'number 10', the shirt and the position that every footballer growing up used to desire, is virtually extinct. The Italian national team exemplifies this perfectly. Over the years they have produced numerous world-class number 10s, the likes of Gianni Rivera, Sandro Mazzola, Baggio, and most recently Francesco Totti. At this summer's European Championships, Coach Roberto Donadoni is set to employ a 4-3-3 formation, meaning that Italy will be playing with no creative support striker.

You look at the major teams around Europe, and many seem to favour a big, strong, man-mountain of a target man. Arsenal have Emmanuel Adebayor, Chelsea have Didier Drogba, Inter field Zlatan Ibrahimovic, and I predict that within five years it will be rare to see a top club or country with a striker who is below six foot.

Height is becoming important. A team with short players is liable to concede goals off set-pieces and crosses - thus once again the lumbering giant is preferred to the shorter, skilful player. Take the Chelsea or Inter Milan teams who are absolutely full to the rafters with 6 foot-plus machines.

Today, squads are also considered to be fragile unless they have two defensive midfielders in the middle-of-the-park. To be a good centre midfielder is to be able to run, run and run some more. A player like Momo Sissoko, wouldn't have even made it into the semi-professional league in Italy a few decades ago, yet today he is being tipped by some to become one of the best midfield men in the whole of Serie A.

In modern football you can have the flair and natural talent of Diego Maradona, but if you have no pace, nobody wants to know you. Take Juan Roman Riquelme for example. If he was around in the 1980s, he would have had every top team in Italy and Spain queuing up to build their team around him. Riquelme is a genius, he sees passes that athletes like Sissoko would take 30 years to spot, yet he is unwanted because he is considered too slow for the modern game.

Former Spain and Barcelona star Josep Guardiola was a fantastic holding playmaker, but he had the pace of a snail. The player's career can be split into two parts. During the first half, when football was still pure, he was simply world class and one of the best midfielders in the world. However towards the end of the 1990s, there was a sudden decline in his performances (injuries also played a part). The game had simply become too fast and physical for him, something he admitted himself, and Barcelona eventually let him go in 2001 at the age of just 30.

Of course there are always phenomenon's who disprove this theory, but these are becoming rarer all the time. The best example of course is Zinedine Zidane, an old-school player like Riquelme, with very little pace or physical quality, yet who was far and away the best player of his generation, and was still sensational at the 2006 World Cup at the age of 34. The fact that Zidane excelled in such an era proves what a legend among legends he is. Andrea Pirlo is another exception, but even he has found himself in situations where he has been physically bullied, such as against Arsenal in the Champions League recently.

Baggio believes that the only place in the world where football is still football is South America, a continent where players are footballers first, and athletes second.

"In South America more than Europe they are much closer to the authentic spirit of football," said the 1994 World Cup star. "This is why I adore Leo Messi."

Cristiano Ronaldo and Thierry Henry are two excellent examples of the modern day player. Both, when in form, are world class performers, but ask yourself how good they would be if you remove the pace and physical features from their games. Some would also place Kaka in this category.

Wayne Rooney, over the weekend, compared Manchester United to the old Brazil due to the way the teams play. The difference is that the great Brazil teams have played with irresistible skill, technique and panache, while The Red Devils' game is at a high intensity, quickly zipping the ball about, and counter-attacking at a lightning pace.

I am unconvinced that either Ronaldo or Henry would have been world-class in the slower, and more technical/tactical oriented 1980s. On the same token you could probably find numerous players from that generation who wouldn't have coped today - Brazilian legend Socrates is perhaps one.

The question is though - who would you consider more of a real footballer - Socrates or Henry?

Call me old-school, but I am sure that most football purists will agree that football was much better when it was slower and less athletic.

What are your views on this topic? Is Roberto Baggio right - has skill disappeared from modern football? What examples, like Riquelme, can you find of brilliant players who are being forced out because of their physical deficiencies? Was football better when it was slower? Goal.com wants to know what YOU think...

Carlo Garganese
Hevrn
post Apr 1 2008, 08:53 PM

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The sport has evolved over the years. Back then, the people play with more passion and joy compared to today. I'm not saying the passion has left the game completely, but the evolution of the sport, mostly fueled by money, has changed the demands of the game. Theres so much more reason to win a game of football compared to back then. Lose a match and boom, you're relegated and the club you play for has just lost millions. Win a match and your wages are doubled and more money will follow. Therefore, football now is played with more urgency and definitely with a lot more contact. Riquelme, though possessing a genius football brain, had a tendency to take one touch too many while reading the game. Opposition players aren't gonna wait for him, they'll go in and try to win the ball, obviously using their body.

Skills, on the other hand, have not left the game. It takes skill to run at players with pace and to say it has dissapeared from football is nonsense. We have our Ronaldos, Ronaldinhos, Henry's and Messi's who will definitely give Maradona, Pele and whatnot a run for their money.

Just my two cents.

This post has been edited by Hevrn: Apr 1 2008, 08:54 PM
bwan
post Apr 1 2008, 11:01 PM

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Why Baggio assumes all pacey and speedy footballers nowadays have no skill? Messi is a very pacey footballer with good dribbling skill, Ronaldo too. Even Maradona himself is very pacey.
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post Apr 1 2008, 11:15 PM

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QUOTE(Hevrn @ Apr 1 2008, 08:53 PM)
The sport has evolved over the years. Back then, the people play with more passion and joy compared to today. I'm not saying the passion has left the game completely, but the evolution of the sport, mostly fueled by money, has changed the demands of the game. Theres so much more reason to win a game of football compared to back then. Lose a match and boom, you're relegated and the club you play for has just lost millions. Win a match and your wages are doubled and more money will follow. Therefore, football now is played with more urgency and definitely with a lot more contact. Riquelme, though possessing a genius football brain, had a tendency to take one touch too many while reading the game. Opposition players aren't gonna wait for him, they'll go in and try to win the ball, obviously using their body.

Skills, on the other hand, have not left the game. It takes skill to run at players with pace and to say it has dissapeared from football is nonsense. We have our Ronaldos, Ronaldinhos, Henry's and Messi's who will definitely give Maradona, Pele and whatnot a run for their money.

Just my two cents.
*
These are what u expect when u are given a yellow card for taking off ur shirt when u scored, even if u show a little too much joy... I really don't get the rules nowadays... Are we suppose to celebrate like robots? Passion & joy are slowly decreasing... In Brazilian league, players get shot down if they show their skills to much (too much skills make them as if they are intimidating & disgracing opposition players)... Football matches now are also controlled by bookies, win lose under their control... My conclusion... modern game kills off passion & joy? I pretty much agree...
Notoriez
post Apr 1 2008, 11:54 PM

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I would prefer physical and fitness over technical abilities in the end of the day..With modern football players have to undergo 40-60 games in a season, they needed to physically and mentally FIT..For me superb dribbling skills are 'something nice to have but not a neccessity' biggrin.gif You may only need this skills in order to beat a defender or just showboating a bit to please the crowd..other than that you must have the physical built wink.gif
Gerald21
post Apr 1 2008, 11:58 PM

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i second ervinliew86 views... todays football is just to direct, the joy and passion for the game is virtuallty gone.. even with nike's campaign for joga bonito which was fronted by one of the best players in the world(cantona) doesn't even help. come on ppl...for the future of football..stop seeing it as a cash-cow and make it more enjoyable
Duke Red
post Apr 2 2008, 11:08 AM

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My first thoughts are that like everything else, the game has evolved. Comparisons with the past will never cease. Players of the past will always talk about how the modern game is so different to when they played. In this case however, I think Baggio has a point. In South America, a lot of emphasis is put into developing a players individual skill from a young age. In Europe, more emphasis is put into developing ones technical ability. From personal experience, I once met with the directors of the "Brazilian Football Academy" here in Kuala Lumpur and they had explained to me that there is no difference in terms of training techniques. The only distinction between the two is the amount of focus that is given to each area. South American footballers often play 5-a-side football, or Futsal as it is now known. In Futsal, players are forced to develop their close control skills by using the instep or soles of their feet more often to keep possession of the ball. Compare this with most European footballers who use the outstep of their feet more often. Which gives you better control? Why do English players in particular have poor first touches?

It is now a case of skill vs. pace & power isn't it? Who has come up trumps so far? Put it this way, in recent World Club Championships, Brazilian teams have beaten Manchester United and Liverpool. Only recently has Europe regained some ounce of pride when AC Milan triumphed. I don't know what this tells you but I think Baggio has a point. Sure you have the likes of Christiano Ronaldo and Fernando Torres that have both pace and power but players like these, who have a combination of both don't come around often.
ponomariov
post Apr 2 2008, 11:12 AM

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The idea of skill .... is not dribbling pass people.

The whole idea of skill is the ball it right infront of you and yet you can't take it.
Watch Romario, Zidane, Maradona, Ronaldinho, Viera

They can get out of a situation even when they are sandwich by pull and pushing the ball.

Critiano Ronaldo is good if he has space and able to use his pace.
Hevrn
post Apr 2 2008, 11:18 AM

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Another thing is that people nowadays relate skills as a form of showboating. Nani did it against Arsenal and got kicked. Ronaldo did it last night and Pizarro vented his frustration by shrugging him off the ball. Kerlon does his infamous seal dribble and the opponents get pissed off. How then are players supposed to express themselves if they fear of making their opponents angry?
ponomariov
post Apr 2 2008, 12:22 PM

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I support sending off players for venting frusfration and also support banning divers from replays
yngwie
post Apr 2 2008, 12:22 PM

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maybe baggio is right..or wrong, depending on how you look at it. but Duke Red was right. it's something called evolution.
the ball changes, so does the players; technical and mental. with money being the primary motivational.

imo, skill is not being replaced by a pace and power. but by ACTING doh.gif laugh.gif
lots of good footballer out there has a commendable skill and top notch pace with some power to compliments their all round ability but what makes 'em look like a chicken is the way they ACTING UP. yawn.gif yawn.gif
how many good players doing their best to stand on their firm foot even at the slightest of tackle, or in certain situation, going down lamely in penalty are when there is no contact at all? doh.gif

will we ever seen the young ronaldo(ex-psv and barca) again?
verx
post Apr 2 2008, 12:39 PM

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I think Baggio has a point but i also think he has exaggerated it a wee bit. As many have pointed out the game has evolved. Pro players now must take care of their bodies like true athletes. And because of that the tempo of the game has increased alot as the players are able to run more and faster.

It's because of this physical demand that the general skill level of a professional has dropped. When players who can't even pass a simple 20 yard ball but is playing at a high level due to his physical abilities is proof of that. And I'm sure that there are many technically gifted players who couldn't make it because they lack the stamina or the pace to keep up.

However I believe that the skills are all still there and will always be there. There's just this extra demand from a physical standpoint. But the best players were always those that excelled in both attributes even back in those days i feel.

This post has been edited by verx: Apr 2 2008, 12:40 PM
MADReaLJL
post Apr 2 2008, 12:54 PM

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yeah, u asked for it
look at nani when he showboated against arsenal

and look at this guys
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


This post has been edited by MADReaLJL: Apr 2 2008, 09:14 PM
RedSky21
post Apr 2 2008, 09:47 PM

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QUOTE(kueks @ Apr 1 2008, 07:46 PM)
http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=641500

Italy legend Roberto Baggio launched a scathing attack against the modern game at the weekend, saying that all the skill was being replaced by pace and power. Carlo Garganese asks if the former European and World Footballer of the Year is right...

What has happened to the beautiful game? There used to be a time when the first thing a footballer was judged by was his technical ability. 

After this, the order of importance would be tactical, mental, and then finally physical qualities. This was the process that was used in most European countries, although not in all. England has always been an exception, something I can vouch for personally as I was released by Luton Town (who had then just been relegated from the top-flight) as a skillful teenager because I was told I was "too small, short, and weak". 

Ever since this time I have always held the view that, not only the English youth system, but English football as a whole, has totally neglected skill and natural talent, in favour of pace, power, strength and other physical attributes. Indeed this helps explain why the country has always been so dreadfully poor on a technical level. 

While England has always placed physical attributes as the primary consideration when judging a player, other European countries, such as Spain and Italy, have traditionally favored the aforementioned technical aspect. 

Sadly, the way the game is evolving, it seems that there is an inevitable process in place whereby the blood-and-thunder English way is becoming the norm throughout Europe. 

"It is all much faster and more difficult now," blasted Baggio.

"In the 1990s it was more than the 80s, now even more than the 90s. It is the evolution of the sport and we have to follow it. However, one cannot criticize a player for trying a backheel during a game. Are we crazy?" 

People that play today are - in most cases- athletes first, and footballers second. The desire to become quicker, fitter and stronger is destroying the game. All the skill, as Baggio says, is disappearing. 

The classic 'number 10', the shirt and the position that every footballer growing up used to desire, is virtually extinct. The Italian national team exemplifies this perfectly. Over the years they have produced numerous world-class number 10s, the likes of Gianni Rivera, Sandro Mazzola, Baggio, and most recently Francesco Totti. At this summer's European Championships, Coach Roberto Donadoni is set to employ a 4-3-3 formation, meaning that Italy will be playing with no creative support striker. 

You look at the major teams around Europe, and many seem to favour a big, strong, man-mountain of a target man. Arsenal have Emmanuel Adebayor, Chelsea have Didier Drogba, Inter field Zlatan Ibrahimovic, and I predict that within five years it will be rare to see a top club or country with a striker who is below six foot. 

Height is becoming important. A team with short players is liable to concede goals off set-pieces and crosses - thus once again the lumbering giant is preferred to the shorter, skilful player. Take the Chelsea or Inter Milan teams who are absolutely full to the rafters with 6 foot-plus machines. 

Today, squads are also considered to be fragile unless they have two defensive midfielders in the middle-of-the-park. To be a good centre midfielder is to be able to run, run and run some more. A player like Momo Sissoko, wouldn't have even made it into the semi-professional league in Italy a few decades ago, yet today he is being tipped by some to become one of the best midfield men in the whole of Serie A. 

In modern football you can have the flair and natural talent of Diego Maradona, but if you have no pace, nobody wants to know you. Take Juan Roman Riquelme for example. If he was around in the 1980s, he would have had every top team in Italy and Spain queuing up to build their team around him. Riquelme is a genius, he sees passes that athletes like Sissoko would take 30 years to spot, yet he is unwanted because he is considered too slow for the modern game. 

Former Spain and Barcelona star Josep Guardiola was a fantastic holding playmaker, but he had the pace of a snail. The player's career can be split into two parts. During the first half, when football was still pure, he was simply world class and one of the best midfielders in the world. However towards the end of the 1990s, there was a sudden decline in his performances (injuries also played a part). The game had simply become too fast and physical for him, something he admitted himself, and Barcelona eventually let him go in 2001 at the age of just 30. 

Of course there are always phenomenon's who disprove this theory, but these are becoming rarer all the time. The best example of course is Zinedine Zidane, an old-school player like Riquelme, with very little pace or physical quality, yet who was far and away the best player of his generation, and was still sensational at the 2006 World Cup at the age of 34. The fact that Zidane excelled in such an era proves what a legend among legends he is. Andrea Pirlo is another exception, but even he has found himself in situations where he has been physically bullied, such as against Arsenal in the Champions League recently. 

Baggio believes that the only place in the world where football is still football is South America, a continent where players are footballers first, and athletes second.

"In South America more than Europe they are much closer to the authentic spirit of football," said the 1994 World Cup star. "This is why I adore Leo Messi." 

Cristiano Ronaldo and Thierry Henry are two excellent examples of the modern day player. Both, when in form, are world class performers, but ask yourself how good they would be if you remove the pace and physical features from their games. Some would also place Kaka in this category.

Wayne Rooney, over the weekend, compared Manchester United to the old Brazil due to the way the teams play. The difference is that the great Brazil teams have played with irresistible skill, technique and panache, while The Red Devils' game is at a high intensity, quickly zipping the ball about, and counter-attacking at a lightning pace.

I am unconvinced that either Ronaldo or Henry would have been world-class in the slower, and more technical/tactical oriented 1980s. On the same token you could probably find numerous players from that generation who wouldn't have coped today - Brazilian legend Socrates is perhaps one. 

The question is though - who would you consider more of a real footballer - Socrates or Henry? 

Call me old-school, but I am sure that most football purists will agree that football was much better when it was slower and less athletic. 

What are your views on this topic? Is Roberto Baggio right - has skill disappeared from modern football? What examples, like Riquelme, can you find of brilliant players who are being forced out because of their physical deficiencies? Was football better when it was slower? Goal.com wants to know what YOU think... 

Carlo Garganese
*
totally agree with the article about the definition of skill being replaced in modern football but still i don`t think that has effected the game that much....but saying that thierry henry is nothing without power and pace is just wrong...he is one hell of a technical player, its just that he has pace and power which sometimes overshadows his technical ability...ronaldo maybe lah...but these players are dangerous in dead-ball situations...so pace and powers is not everything....

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post Apr 2 2008, 10:41 PM

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QUOTE(RedSky21 @ Apr 2 2008, 09:47 PM)
totally agree with the article about the definition of skill being replaced in modern football but still i don`t think that has effected the game that much....but saying that thierry henry is nothing without power and pace is just wrong...he is one hell of a technical player, its just that he has pace and power which sometimes overshadows his technical ability...ronaldo maybe lah...but these players are dangerous in dead-ball situations...so pace and powers is not everything....
*
Thierry Henry without pace is half the player he is. Nothing against the player or Arsenal but that's just what i think. His technique isn't anything to shout about imo. He's struggled so far in the Spanish league because due to Barca's system he isn't able to exploit his pace.
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post Apr 8 2008, 05:39 AM

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Skills are always there...you can't make it to being a pro footballer without it right? Even so-so players like Milan Baros can dribble, but most of the time, to nowhere...

What I think is lacking are players with a genuine football brain...meaning players like Zizou, Platini, Bergkamp, Cruyf, etc.

But then again, how many of these players are 'produced'? one every decade or so...

even promising ones like Aimar, Pirlo etc have not attained the same impact as some of the players mentioned...

players with bags of skills = a lot, those with genuine football brain = very extremely rare
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post Apr 8 2008, 07:46 AM

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QUOTE(m o m o @ Apr 8 2008, 05:39 AM)
Skills are always there...you can't make it to being a pro footballer without it right? Even so-so players like Milan Baros can dribble, but most of the time, to nowhere...

What I think is lacking are players with a genuine football brain...meaning players like Zizou, Platini, Bergkamp, Cruyf, etc.

But then again, how many of these players are 'produced'? one every decade or so...

even promising ones like Aimar, Pirlo etc have not attained the same impact as some of the players mentioned...

players with bags of skills = a lot, those with genuine football brain = very extremely rare
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nod.gif You have a point!

 

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