Hi all,

I saw lots of ppl using DAC recently instead of sound card. They claim that DAC can out perform any good soundcard in the market. Is that true? What are the differences between soundcard and DAC?

Are the differences very obvious when pair with speakers like Aego M, MX5021 or Edifier S530d?

Please advise.

i think i have answered this b4, a DAC doesn't slot onto your PC Motherboard and doesn't have a USB (well some does). But basically they does the same thing, which is to convert sound from Digital to Analog to be feed to your amp.

Yes a dedicated DAC should performs better as you can isolate the power supply to draw from a power bank which is alot less distortion and noise, while the soundcard has to draw the power from the power supply/mobo which is prone to ripple and noise injected to the power.

edit: no i don't suppose you'll hear much difference on normal speakers, you need hifi where the source, pre-amp, amp's power are isolated to fully utilised the DAC. In those setup, even different RCA cables gives different results

This post has been edited by vincent_audio: Mar 24 2008, 04:27 PM

Oh really? I din see any thread explaining this. Sorry for making you to explain again.

I saw some many LYN members are selling DAC like Yulong, Zero, iBasso. What about those DAC? They have USB connection as well. What are those USB connection for if DAC is connected to its own power supply. Some DAC has amp in it as well right? I am a noob in these stuffs. Get really confused reading those threads sometimes

How do you define normal speakers?? Speakers like Aego M, MX5021, are those normal to you?

I am planning to upgrade my speaker( eg Aego M, MX5021) but dun noe whether should I buy a good soundcard or a budget DAC around RM400-600 I guess.

So need some experts to give me some opinions.

I use my PC audio system more for movies/TV Shows/animes than music and games.

Soundcard itself is a DAC. Why people using external DAC is to get better audio, since the uses of switching PSU makes it noisy, and I don't mean fan noise

If you uses standard multimedia PC speaker, it wasn't necessary. Any good soundacrd will do, even modern onboard sound should suffice. Those brand you mention is just standard multimedia PC speaker, only AegoM is more suitable for music listening

The USB connection is just mere connection to the PC, as it allows the PC to 'see' that it connected and transfering digital audio data, not supplying power

A good soundcard like Audiotrak Prodigy HD2 would suffice for music

The USB connected is just like a transport interface, it act like a medium to receive signal from computer, it's the normal 3.5mm stereo, RCA, coaxial, all of them are designed to receive signal from one end and then transfer to the other end.

Since you mainly use your PC audio system fro movie/TV Shows/Animes, i guess it's sufficient for you to stick with max MX5021(good for movie, my GF owned this) and normal Creative soundcard, anything spent more than that it's kinda wasted

@GodLuvSxS
@Najmods

Thanks for your advice and explanation. In this case what kind of sound card should I go for? There are many types in the market.

One more thing, this is abit out of the topic. Since u all say that DAC is for Hi-Fi system. Are AV receiver a high end DAC? As I am planning to get a Hi-Fi system end of this year.

AV receiver is amplifier, it receive signal from source and then amplify it. May I know what kind of Hi-Fi system you trying to get? Like those Sony dunno how many k watt combo type? or normal separate like AE? And your purpose of getting this is for movie purpose?

actually those 'duno how many kilo watt' sony,pionerr,etc if compare with speaker such as aego m ,edifier s530d, which will better ? will higher end multimedia speaker better than these 'hi-fi' ?

If you're serious about music, get a stand-alone DAC then, if what you mainly do is watching movie only. A decent soundcard should suffice. Unless you're into home theatre....

This post has been edited by Sieg: Mar 24 2008, 07:54 PM

Actually, I have already a set of Philip Home Theatre set model HT3110. It is brand new, win it in a golf competition. So I am wondering should I get a AC receiver to boost the system. However, I do wana to buy a good receiver so that it can be reused when I upgrade my system in the future.

What kind of AV receiver should I get? Budget around 1K - 3K for AV receiver.

the technical spec for the HT set is http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/h/hts3110..._98_pss_aen.pdf.

---

Added on March 24, 2008, 8:16 pmI mainly used it for watching movie only. Yeah many of them just advise to buy a better speaker and a soundcard will be sufficient.

But what kind of sound card should I buy which is good for movies, gaming and music? There are too many choices iin the market. Budget for sound card probably around RM300++



This post has been edited by naleh33: Mar 24 2008, 08:16 PM

IMHo. those speaker are budget active speaker, with some quality.
from what you were going to use. i will suggest you to spend money on MX5021, and get a normal sound card like audigy2. that's more than enough for movie / tvshow / animes.

for music, i will recommend you go for stand alone DAC, and Aego M.

AV receiver means three things:

1) It's an integrated amp
2) With a tuner
3) That has theatre sound decoding

Those AV amps without tuners are called AV amplifiers.

DACs are usually built into digital audio and video players, so that they can convert the digital signal from the discs into analogue (hence: Digital-to-Analogue Converter). AV Receivers/Amps OTOH have a built-in DAC that converts and separates the audio channels necessary for surround theatre.

If you want to use the DAC that's built into a receiver, you'll need an optical cable, and a disc player with the same type of output. You wouldn't be able to access the receiver's DAC if you used RCA cables. If you have a high end disc player paired to a so-so receiver, you'll be better off using analogue RCAs, cos chances are the DAC in the player is better than the one in the receiver.

OTOH if you had a high-end receiver and a so-so player but with optical out, then use the DAC of the receiver which will give you better sound quality. However, IINM if you want dts decoding for theatre surround you will need to use the optical cable.

IMHO a separate DAC is usually one of the last things to consider even in a moderately high end system; you'll be better off dealing with the acoustical bottlenecks elsewhere like the player, amp, speakers, cables and room acoustics. Only after you've done all that and spent a considerable amount of time listening to the system and tweaking it to the max, will you be able to discern subtle changes to the system, i.e., external DAC, separate transport, pre-power amp, tube amps, power supply etc.

If you plan to get a DAC for your PC, I'd say not needed, just get a reasonable sound card will do, cos the Aego M isn't that great for serious listening to begin with (I'm using them for my pc). Let's not forget also that the DVD writer/combo or whatever, is not meant for serious music so why waste good money on bad equipment? And we don't even need to talk about compressed music cos that's even worse

This post has been edited by gregy: Mar 24 2008, 10:15 PM

AV amp does not necessary comes with tuner.
AV amp is same with AV amplifiers. amp = amplifiers in short form.
AV amp means it support multi channel, and with selector (thats why they call it receiver some time). so that you can connect different DVD source, of image / audio. and it comes with multichannel surround support.
usually for higher end system. people take source into first count when they have a not bad amp and not bad speaker. else rubbish in rubbish out. and usually they opp for external DAC because of it's cheap price, to use the DAC with cheaper transporter. else CDP with the same DAC built in will cost much much higher.
other than that. high end DAC will indeed provide better quality than high end CDP as the DAC has it's own isolated power supply,.rather than sharing power with servo, lens, and other component in the CDP system.
there are some people prefer DAC also because the ease of upgrade. he just have to change the DAC. instead of the whole CDP which including transport and DAC

if you serious about music listening, aego m is hard to fight within budget of RM 1500 (which including speaker and amp)
DAC is a must for it if u want max quality.
i had heard some high end systems like sonus faber, wilson audio, ATC for quite some time. Lower Mid range systems like AE1 (Reference of AE) , which in fact i owned this speaker before or even epos that i am using now. and some lower entry hifi speaker such as NAD flood stander and B&W601.
i do think that soundcard will be bottle neck even if u are using it with aego m.
i had once heard AEGO M with Agile Audio CDP, paired with Cardas Gold Reference RCA-RCA cable.
the sound is truly immersing.

aego m has it's potential. only draw back is the bass provided by a single woofer. which causing it's mono bass situation. however, it does hit deep and punchy.
and the frequency cross over point is well defined and the satelite doesn't sound detached from the woofer bass.
it's a good plus imho.


and for your info,changes caused by external DAC, separate transport, pre-power amp, tube amps, power supply is not subtle, which in fact they bring MAJOR different. even in my lower mid range system. i upgraded my CDP, and they sound MUCH MUCH different, i upgrade my cable to van den hul, i change my AMP transformer, and power section cap. and it bring super big different. ask those who had listened to my system before and after.
my system had become much quiet than before as compare to the original condition.

if you were into DAC, i will suggest you to opp for DAC with coaxial input. most of my friends with DAC agreed with me that coaxial input sounds more natural than optical.
on their systems respectively.


This post has been edited by PcWork: Mar 24 2008, 10:32 PM

my EL34 valve amp is only rated at 20 watt, but is capable of powering floorstander speaker not even kilo watt

but my speaker are rated at 90db

gregy: i do not think DAC is the last thing you should consider as it is the 3rd item in the chain of the audio system, after the source and power. I do not believe you can get good sound if u have a bad source which normally has an integrated DAC. It's all depends on how good you want your system to sound like and of course how much difference you can hear.

lol. valve amp is different, the wattage can't be consider same as solid state.. audio research rated at 50-55 watt can drive sonus faber amati/ dynaudio floor stander.. imaging that?? that's super power hungry speaker....

my previous owned yulong T-amp solid state only rated at 9 watt. can power my NAD floorstander too. my floorstander also 90db. lol
and it power it LOUD. not only have sound, but LOUD, well define.. haha

After all those technical terms, I dunno whether he's confused or not
I hope he understands and ultimately, it goes to your budget and the purpose of usage. Don't get something which is useless to you.

well ya, that's the point i'm trying to tell, some of my friend has wat they call the first watt amp, rated at 1 amp powering high efficency speakers at 98db

it's the SQ, not the SPL that we are looking for. Those 1000 watt RMS is just marketing and looks cool on paper

alot of ppl is comparing, x brand got 100watt, y brand got 200 watt !!! y brand sure better

lol
those marketting guys never use RMS, they don't dare too.
hahaha
only super duper high end flagship amp will goes up to 500 watt RMS, or 1000 watt RMS.
those marketting ppl trying to use PMPO.
however. those wattage only shows how powerful it is, in the other word, how loud it is, aka SPL.
it's true that we are looking for SQ. even though it might not be loud, as long as it sound well define, well detail, not harsh, emotional, and relaxing. i will be the first one to buy the amp. =)



take a look at the size of the amp, to power the size of the speaker. lol
the smaller one is amp. the bigger one is CDP.


This post has been edited by PcWork: Mar 24 2008, 10:52 PM

Wah.... really information overflow... especially those electronic jargons that the experts used . I have to digest abit. But from those explanation, for me, I will just need a fairly well speaker and soundcard and it will do the job nicely

But really thank you for everyone information. It is really enlightening. Let me gain more knowledge on audiophille then I start playing with those gadgets.

at this moment, i really suggest u for altec lansing MX5021 (this model only, the upgraded version doesn't sound good to me)
and audigy2 ZS