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 High Dividend Counters, Better than putting in FD

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cherroy
post May 15 2009, 04:40 PM

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QUOTE(darkknight81 @ May 15 2009, 04:16 PM)
Thanks sifuĀ  notworthy.gif one more thing is do panamy export its product to other countries? As i know products name panasonic is under panamy but how about the products national ? Is it imported from japan or locally made?
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Yes, they do export.
Can see from their financial report.
In fact, if not mistaken, they are keen on export market to grow more.

A lot of them are made locally, you need to see which kind of appliance. They won't produce across every items, an item need a new assembly/production line.

Washing machine line was the one bleeding the company (Panamy registered loss previously) which they had discharged this product line.

The strength of Panamy is from Air-con which Panasonic is the dominant brand name in this field.

There is no more brand under National, all being grouped under one name Panasonic.

This post has been edited by cherroy: May 15 2009, 04:42 PM
cherroy
post May 15 2009, 10:27 PM

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QUOTE(virtualgay @ May 15 2009, 09:39 PM)
Price seem like on the high side for PANAMY la...
If the were to offer a split then would be good la...
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Nowadays you can trade 1 lot with 100 shares, so 10.00 or 1.00 make no different.

10.00 you buy 10 lots equal to 10K, 1.00 stock you buy 100 lots, still equal to 10K, so what price or whether got split or not makes no different at all, as you can trade as low as 100 shares, which equivalent to 1K per lot only.
cherroy
post May 16 2009, 09:55 AM

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QUOTE(darkknight81 @ May 16 2009, 02:15 AM)
That is the point ....sustainability of the dividend...

If you take a look at the financial report...
In conclusion... how long can they sustain their DPS of RM 1.15 PER SHARE?
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They can't, sustainability dividend is around or average 50-80 cents based on their EPS.

That's why they have interim + final dividend = 50 cents consistently. That's why company stated the term "special" dividend.

Still it is a steady dividend counter based on the low point or sustainability dividend of 50 cents which yield about 5%.


cherroy
post May 17 2009, 09:40 AM

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QUOTE(whizzer @ May 16 2009, 07:44 PM)
Noticed that Panasonic Japan reported US4Billion loss this year. Would this have any impact to Panamy ?
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No. Panasonic Japan, its parent company doing across from electrical appliance to electronic component worldwide, while Panamy is about business in Malaysia doing electrical appliances like Air-cond, houesehold appliance only. Separate entity.

QUOTE(ks3114 @ May 17 2009, 12:12 AM)
IMO, 'Chinaman' style companies offer best dividends in term of value and sustainability. I only know a few, such as YTL, CHINTEK. KSENG. The are cash rich with low borrowings, which also mean slow growth. Correct me if im wrong.
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Not actually, some "Chinaman" style companies are very "kedekut" offer not much dividend to shareholders. It depends on sincerity of the company management and management board style.

YTL and Kseng is different than Chintek. YTL is not without borrowing as well as Kseng. In fact YTL's borrowing is huge, just it being well managed. resulted has consistently positive cashflow doesn't mean it is net cash rich or without borrowing.
While Chintek is a real cash rich company.

Less borrowing doesn't mean less growth, if the company can generate enough cash to grow on itself.

Borrowing is always a double edge sword, if utilise properly and in good timing, then company can grow very fast, but if not manage properly or economy situation is poor, it might a burden for the company.

It is all about management. Cash rich if not managed properly, then no use as well. But generally speaking, if not managed properly, company generally won't be cash rich. On the other hand, huge borrowing doesn't mean bad if manage its cashflow properly without utilising fully the borrowing to grow the company and become more profitable.
cherroy
post May 18 2009, 03:19 PM

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QUOTE(aeronic @ May 18 2009, 02:52 PM)
hey guys if i queue panamy at 10.8 will it every have chance to touch or i should only try 10.90. i mean your personal opinions...
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Panamy once people don't want to trade, then whole day will be the same.

But there is always got tomorrow.
cherroy
post May 20 2009, 04:28 PM

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Panamy price always went up a little during May time due to final dividend, unless with poor financial result, touch wood.
cherroy
post May 20 2009, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(aeronic @ May 20 2009, 04:40 PM)
when is the final divident pay out date for this year?
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Finance year ended 31 March, so they need to release before end of May.
cherroy
post Jun 3 2009, 05:36 PM

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Ammb is not well known as dividend counters.
In fact, its loan quality is one of the poorest among all the banks.

So it is vulnerably if economy situation deteoriate. Actually, financial instituitional is quite vulnerable in poor economy time due to nature of the industry (leverage). So loan/asset quality is the most important part.

Those experienced with 1997 crisis known AMMB was troubled by its NPL.

Don't mean it has no good future or not.

Just it is not well known as dividend play counter.

my 2 cents.
cherroy
post Aug 6 2009, 04:22 PM

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I don't why want to look for price below Rm5 or Rm3.

Share price cheap or not cheap, is not really cheap or not cheap, get what I mean.

For eg. Tanjong is 15.00, so people say too expensive to buy (not necessary expensive), as 1000 share cost 15K, fair enough, but nowadays you can buy 100 shares, which means you can buy Tanjong as little as Rm1.5K!

If a share price is Rm5.00, you buy 10 lots (1,000 shares) cost 5K, then you can buy Tanjong for 300 shares, which is 4.5K. If the div yield is the same, you get the same amount of dividend cheque.

Why must look at share price alone to say it is too high/expensive to buy, it doesn't make sense to me.

Look at yield, EPS, PER, company business to sustain the div yield which is the factor to determine cheap or expensive, not share price.

If you have 10K, then you want to invested the 10K, it doesn't necessary you look for share price below Rm10 or Rm5 one. Higher price buy less unit, low price buy more unit, in the end of the day, it is the amount of money (10K) is the most important.
cherroy
post Aug 8 2009, 10:43 AM

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QUOTE(OldKidz @ Aug 8 2009, 08:43 AM)
so far i earn around 20% of profit wif my playing style. swing, earn a lil profit thn ciao. thn wait for another chance.  blush.gif
wow, thanks for sharing. yeap it sound true here. end up is matter of how many modal u have invested.
seems like dividend has fixed to few counter, i dont think we need much research here right? it seems like a save play to hold dividend counter?
but return isnt so high?
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As long as company make profit enable to pay good dividend, then it is a holding game.

Look at long term, a lot of time, a lot of time, it is the dividend stocks outshine others.
People said BAT can't move, but it has moved from 15.00 to 47.00 without calculated the annually dividend given.
People said xyz goreng stock moves faster, can easily move 10-20% in a few day, but look back, hey, ten years ago, it was 1.00, now it is 0.80, without any dividend given in between.

In stock market, any return rate in double digit in teen number is considered a good performance already.

A lot of people said those dividend stocks can't move much, and return rate is low (5-7% yield), so they opt for those penny, goreng, quick moving stock, but most ended up losing money on those stock. So if you look back, you will glad you have some stocks that lead you some net gain one.

In stock market we have several outcome after sometimes

1) loss
2) breakeven
3) Gain but low return but still higher than FD (as mentioned)
4) Gain in double digit

So if you investment fall into 3), it is not that bad. You are better than the rest of 50%. In reality, majority (>50-60%) people lose money in stock market.
cherroy
post Aug 8 2009, 11:32 AM

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QUOTE(Kamen Rider @ Aug 8 2009, 11:11 AM)
I have heard that people will sure lose money when they first step into share market...and they need to pay for school fee in order to gain the experience and knowledge.........................

but many of us using technical analysis, while probably small portion using fundamental analysis wit the combination of technical analysis......  and heard that there are ppl just a traders who use technical charts etc...can survive in share market.... so  I guess they can sustain the marathon run and earn money from stock market in bear and bull times.......

2009 is the good example, where bear comes and now start the bull rally....and many of us have gone thru this 2 situations... and probably gaining profits while getting the key experience on it...
but yet....is the global economy already back to normal, are we in the recovery trends.... only economists know... probably after the facts....for me i am hoping another downturn ..as i don;t think the economy already in recovery stage.... smile.gif
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But there are people always pay school fee but never graduated, tongue.gif no offence.

TA analysis is more suit to short term trade as it doesn't recognise the fundamental part of the stock, as over the long term it is the fundamental issue that supporting the share price.

Don't get me wrong, don't mean TA is not useful or one cannot earn from TA, just every tool is not perfect.

Sorry, I don't agree economists will know. Economists job is dissecting what had happened through data and issues, and predict what could happen based from the data but nobody knows the actual outcome will be.

In current trend, the economy situation, the more suitable word is stablising.

To say it is recovering, still a bit too pre-mature.

Just people feel better and having more hope now. Just like in football match, you lose 3-0 at half time, now it become 3-2, situation stablise and turn better, and could potential win the match, but not yet win the match, just it trend is potential heading to win the match, but still could lose the match at 3-2, or just 3-3.

So at 3-0, supporter (investors) lose hope, all cabut (investors throw like no tomorrow). But now it is 3-2, supoorter (investors) coming back, as stock is severely beaten down, so when it become normalise back, it seen like surge a lot. Just like Citi case, people will say wah, goes up 300% from 1.00 to 4.00. Is it going a lot actually? depended how one see it, if just see from few month time frame, then yes, but if see from several time frame, it was severly beaten down from 50 to 4.00, it is just in stage try to clawing back.

Just my 2cents.
cherroy
post Aug 9 2009, 11:56 PM

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QUOTE(Kamen Rider @ Aug 9 2009, 08:19 PM)
For (A) & (B), I know that when putting 1 million, the fear emotion will circulate us, and if the will power not strong, we probably will cut lost during the bear market...., however, if the counter is fundamental strong and we have the ability to hold it...... and this is provided those money is a spare money....
thus, i would said that whether 1 million or 10k, the key thing is ourselves who believe that the counters we choose are based on our stock selection criteria and i still believe only solid fundamental counters can sail smoothly during bear market...... thus either 1 million or 10k, it is not the matter of amount, it is matter on the strategy we use.... if 10k shrink to 5k, even though we lose only 5k, but yet we lose 50% our capital in our port folio....
cool2.gif
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Ya for me i lost before investing in warrant, penny stocks previously and ..... at least i know there are ppl who succeed in using fundamental analysis....a lot of well know gurus like WB, Benjamin Graham, ... thumbup.gif ..... and i believe that invest in share market is not an science, it is a philosophy, a investment philosophy which very abtracts and some time very clear.... which we need to experience it....

i think this is the good thread i am following, as i need to learn from you guys and use the information as reference and i will judge which are the information are able to guide me to sail smoothly....

and as for 5 years, you guys would have laughing smile.gif  mad.gif  vmad.gif that this is not a long term, it is consider very very short for a long term smile.gif
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Even you are confidence your stock selection is good, but in the market, fundamental of a company can change from time to time.

Nobody ever taught AIG such a strong insurance company can stumble because of greediness.

So it is important to adjust according to fundamental issue.

Just like Carlsberg, for the last 10 years or so, it was a steady dividend stock with profit stay at high level. But since lately few year, its market share has been eaten by Guiness Tiger beer, so after relishing the poor EPS they are delivering, I decided to sell it at 5.00 as its EPS no longer can sustain at high level of dividend.

So don't too stubborn (no offence) of believing your stock pick must be good or fall in love with the stock. If they are doing poorly in financial term, then one needs to adjust the strategy accordingly. But if financial term is ok while share price is plunging, then yes, just like you said, can have confidence can sail through the difficult period.

Some stocks have good history, which generally they will do as well, but we can say for sure 100%, some might be no longer as well as before due to changing fundamental.


Added on August 10, 2009, 12:00 amFor individual investors, if one has 1 million then invested in 1 million in stock market, is not something very wise to do disregard those stocks are rock solid or stock will go up.

As you have no spare cash for any unforseen circumstannces, either to counter the risk as well as has ability to capture opportunity when market plunge, asset allocation is very important.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Aug 10 2009, 12:00 AM
cherroy
post Aug 10 2009, 11:37 PM

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QUOTE(DanielW @ Aug 10 2009, 07:46 PM)
Its earnings, DPS and share price in the past 10 years has been a roller coaster..
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If not mistaken, because they lose the distributorship of Benz at some year, so affect its financial.
cherroy
post Aug 24 2009, 11:50 PM

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QUOTE(simplesmile @ Aug 24 2009, 09:00 PM)
Why would you keep your cash in the business if the punters are shoving cash into your hands month after month without fail?  brows.gif
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Yup, some company doesn't need to have too much capital or cash, as if so those cash just sitting in the company account idle only, so better to give it to shareholders, instead keep it in the compayn forever.
While cash is flowing into the company every week.

But I agree on part of Bjtoto has been squeezed dry by its major shareholders, right now. It is an ATM machine for the major shareholders, as they have to move away from the inter-company loan issue. Its parent company needs cash from Bjtoto.
So how much profit Bjtoto made, they highly will distribute it all.

Actually, it is not good for BJtoto to raise borrowing to pay the special dividend and capital repayment previously, which part of inter-company loan settlement issue.

Bjtoto is merely a dividend play, you buy the stock for its dividend as it is a cash cow, while company is virtually empty, but doesn't means it is not worth, as long as company can generate good profit and distribute it as dividend, then it is a rewarding for those investing in it.

cherroy
post Aug 24 2009, 11:55 PM

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QUOTE(maxchua @ Aug 24 2009, 06:58 PM)
I like Maybulk Personally because if you were to compare with BJTOTO, BJTOTO's Net Tangible Asset is Virtually negative....which means they dont have any capital inside.....the business is operating on borrowed money.....and they borrow ALOT!!!.....But no doubt, BJTOTO's share price is stable as alot of people are intereested in its Dividend (only). But of course, the earnings are quite good as well, considering they dont need any capital to general profit, all BORROWED Money.

As for Maybulk, I like due to little debts, and high profit margin. Good Dividend too. If you are looking for long term and good company with strong balance sheet and little debts, you should go for Maybulk.....try to consider CSCENIC too, though its a small company but it has one of the best balance sheet i have ever seen. Pays good dividend too....remember, the key here is long term.
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Maybulk profit margin is highly volatile depended on BDI which something they can't control, all depended on commodity shipment environment.

It is a good play for commodities demand recovery. But current commodities demand has not picking back to its prior crisis level. We might see price of commodities rebound a lot, but amount of demand side still weak, that's why BDI doesn't shoot up too much lately.

Maybulk merely earn 1-2 cents on last Q, so can't expect too much dividend in short term, anymore special dividend coming which more than its earning is not sustainable in long term, we need to see its EPS recovers.

No doubt, long term wise and with economy recovery, Maybulk could be good.
cherroy
post Sep 15 2009, 11:17 AM

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QUOTE(Kamen Rider @ Sep 15 2009, 06:17 AM)
For your reading pleasure ....... BAT is like a golden goose...if you can hold it for 10 years....
of course we 'projected' tobacco industrial biz is stabilize along the 10 years........................................

one thing for sure this coming October of 2009, market expects an increase of sin tax for tobacco, gambling, liquors, beers industries....
as we will see how these sin tax will result a hike in selling price of above items, at the end it is the consumers that need to fork out the money ........
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Market always worry about sin tax increment will hurt those 'sin' business company, which always ended up make them make even more profit, as those tax increment always got temporarily effect only, afterwards any cost will pass to consumers which people still willing to fork out more money to buy.

The major worry is always rampant smuggling that take a share of the business away from the company.
cherroy
post Nov 2 2009, 03:44 PM

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QUOTE(maxchua @ Nov 2 2009, 01:11 PM)
Its been long since i graduated, but i remembered some theory i studied in economic class, saying that a company is best 100% leveraged, thus you dont have to invest anything to get returns. because of the ROE thingy...if i remember correctly.

As for Digi, i think its still in its expansion phase, thus needing a certain amount of cash to do so. But from their actions, you can see that they know what their existing investors want which is High dividend, without this high payout, they are afraid that their shares might tank. Thus they are thinking of ways to increase or maintain their share price by giving out more dividends due to competition (maxis).

If you were to ask if they are doing the right thing to increase leverage in times like this and if its a wise choice to borrow money to pay shareholders, ..... i dont know, only time will tell. I like digi as a whole, but the current share price is too high for me to swallow. Shareholders should be quite happy to hear that they are getting more dividend regardless of where the funds are coming from ....hahahaha....as long as not from the shareholder's pockets (rights issue).
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Theory always remain as theory.

The theory of stock market is even simple -> buy low, sell high. So easy one, what so difficult to make money in stock market? whistling.gif

Leverage is double edge sword, high leverage company can grow fast, but if stumble, everthing gone overnight. Bankers that provide you the leverage can pull the plug if situation changed. Just like last year crisis, lot of company cannot refinance their debt, eventually went down.

If company is borrowing money to pay dividend, I can assure the stock will plunge, as investors are not stupid, if the company is not making profit while still giving dividend through borrowing, it won't be sustainable, it can be seen through their financial report as well.


cherroy
post Nov 3 2009, 02:22 PM

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QUOTE(sdas86 @ Nov 3 2009, 02:10 PM)
I like BJTOTO and MAYBULK too. Both are giving high dividend. smile.gif
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Maybulk no longer able to pay high dividend at the moment due to low BDI and economy situation. Its earning is highly volatile which coorelate with BDI eventually affect its ability to give dividend.
cherroy
post Nov 12 2009, 11:12 AM

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QUOTE(Kamen Rider @ Nov 12 2009, 06:23 AM)
Paying RM20k of Digi hold 917.43 shares, and with 180 cents dividends, get RM1651
Paying RM20k of BAT hold 440.53 shares, and with 375 cents dividends, get RM1651
Thus BAT need to payout RM3.75 as dividend in order to equal to Digi payout of RM1.80

However, based on past many years, BAT normally paying less than RM3.00....

Conclusion:

It means that DIGI is a good buy compare to BAT, if DiGi projected to payout RM1.80 dividends...
Am I right ?????  hmm.gif
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Right and wrong.

Some div of Digi is in the form of special div, which might not repetitive for next year.
Digi earns about 1.20-1.50 range, so cannot constantly pay 1.80 for you.

Need to dig deeper to have better comparison.
Also business model/nature is different, cannot compare directly as well.



cherroy
post Dec 12 2009, 01:45 PM

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QUOTE(kei18kun @ Dec 12 2009, 12:19 PM)
how about maybulk? heard its a good one too
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Maybulk's nature of business is more cyclical as profit is highly volatile depended on BDI.

When they earn good time, then can expect good dividend. But in difficult time like last year until now, expect little dividend.

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