kengsim === PSP x 2 === RM1,000 === RM1,000 === 17/12/2007

Strongbaby just contacted me on IM, asked me to put my name into this refund list. *sigh*

Oh, before i forget...

kengsim === PSP x 2 === RM1,000 === RM1,000 === 17/12/2007 Emailed to Strongbaby

Can I suggest we go to the media? With the amount of money involved, maybe Michael Chong can help us out. This is not a small matter anymore but the tally runs into the hundreds of thousands (I'm sure some ppl still haven't come forward). I can try to get the mainstream papers to highlight it, since I'm also in the publishing industry. If we just go to the police, they might not do anything but if it's highlighted in the media, they might do something abt it.

What do you guys think?

Hey, rather than do police report, we can also get 'debt collection agency' to do it. We group everyone together, and they collect on our behalf. We'll have to give them a big cut, maybe half of the sum, but that might be worth it. I'd love to see this con man get some 'ikan yu' treatment. Would be fun, don't ya think?

This morning, I was at the Damansara Utama police station to make my report. I was then asked to go to the Puchong Utama station, where they have a commercial crimes division. While I was there, Eunice sent me an update:

"Hi, its too late already. Its pending court case in melaka. Im in mid of engaging lawyer. D police said by making refund to those made rpt is crime for me too as im disturbing or bribing d witnesses. He also said whether u retract rpt or not also no use cos its police bis. Now u all jst hv to wait to b presented in court as witness d."

The IO (Investigating Officer) there also told me that once a criminal case is initiated, the money is considered burnt. In fact, what Eunice did (refunding money) is, like she said, a crime. Those who received the refunds in the past few days better not celebrate, because it's not over. They will be asked to return that money, otherwise they are also in the wrong, for accepting that 'bribe'. Eunice will be asked to reveal who the ppl who have received the 'refund' so there's no escape.

As it stands now, this is completely out of our hands. Report or not, the criminal case against strongbaby is gonna go to court. The Puchong police have 2 reports against him and want him transferred to KL for further investigation. In fact, while I was there, the AIO was asked by his superior to call Melaka HQ to request them to send him up. So we can only wait to be called as witnesses in the case against him.

Firstly, retracting your report is not a crime. Nobody said it was. However, in this case, Eunice was paying off those who made reports first to get them to retract the report (explicitly or not); that is an offense. In any case, it is clear from the forum post that she was imploring those who made reports to retract them, so the Police told her to stop.

If the accusations are dropped (i.e. reports retracted), this doesn't mean that the case is automatically dropped. The main point here that the Police is focusing on is that there was criminal intent to cheat. In any case, there are many outstanding reports which have not been retracted, so this is moot; the case against SB will proceed.

Yes, you're right in the sense that SB's family can give money to whomever they want. No doubt here. The point I'm trying to make is that Eunice paid out the money in the hope that the accusers will withdraw their reports. Normally, this wouldn't be a problem, except that the names of those who recived the money are in plain sight for everyone (including the IO) to see.

Basically, I also pity Eunice. Now that strongbaby is going to be charged in court, she didn't need to pay actually. Whatever happens to the case (SB convicted or goes free), the money is gone. We can sue him in civil court to get back the money, but seeing how disorganised we are and how much it would cost to engage a lawyer (not to mention it's not a guarateed win), the situation seems hopeless.

In light of this new development (SB getting charged for a criminal offense), there's not much we (the buyers) can do to get back the money. What I can suggest is we group together (and I mean ALL of us), and go talk to the DPP (Deputy Public Prosecutor) to offer to settle the whole thing out of court. Now, let me stress a few things:

1. We must be TOTALLY united in this (not a single person should want to see SB in jail). ALL reports must be retracted;
2. We must agree to the payment plan proposed by SB's relatives;
3. I know (from experience) that even if we want to withdraw all reports, the DPP and IO might not stop the case against SB. This is the Police's prerogative - they have a right to charge him to 'protect the public' and to 'make an example out of him'.
4. This also doesn't mean that we'll get back any money. If SB goes free and refuses to pay us back, I doubt the Police will entertain us anymore.

If we take into account all the above, there is a slight chance that we might get our money back through the payment plan. If the criminal case proceeds, I can tell you that the money's gone and nobody will get a single sen.

So in this case, there are a few outcomes:

1. SB goes to court, gets convicted, spends time behind bars, money gone
2. SB goes to court, gets acquitted, money gone
3. Case withdrawn, SB pays us back according to plan (assuming we have it properly drawn up)
4. Case withdrawn, SB screws us all up once again and FFK (if we don't put the payment plan in black/white)
5. Whatever happens to SB, we engage lawyer to get money back, we win civil case, his assets get liquidated and we get *some* money back
6. Whatever happens to SB, we engage lawyer to get money back, we lose civil case (highly possible if SB gets acquitted), we get saddled with huge lawyer bill.

If I miss out any scenarios, please feel free to add. But basically, we can see from there that if the criminal case proceeds, we're all screwed (money-wise). It won't be easy convincing the DPP to drop the case, especially if he/she believes that SB set out to con us. Whatever we believe (that he was out to con us) doesn't really matter if we want to ever see our money. The criminal case CANNOT proceed.

What do you guys think?

Frankly, the one who is owed the most money should lead the group. He only owes me RM1k and out of that, RM500 isn't mine. Dealing with the Police is a big pain in the butt and it doesn't help that the ones to start criminal proceedings are in Malacca... Can someone from the Malacca group step up to the plate please?

temptation1314, I don't think you should blame those who lodged police reports against SB. If we let SB be, I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that he'll not refund the money anytime soon. I'm number 65 on the refund list and at the rate he was going, I was NEVER gonna get my money back anyway. The fact that he (now) knows that this is serious is a lesson well learnt in itself (I'm not saying he should go to jail thoug). I'm sure the four days plus he spent in a lockup with some other unsavoury characters is an eye-opener. But since this whole can of worms has basically exploded, somebody needs to captain this fast sinking ship. We need some damage control fast and seriously, I don't know who is up to the job. But this is how I think we should proceed:

1. Contact the IO and DPP in charge of the case. Find out if they're willing to let us settle out of court. He must understand that all the complainants are willing to settle out of court.
2. Talk to SB and his family to find out what they can propose (in writing) in terms of settling his debts.

The most important thing is to get in touch with the IO and DPP.

Those who legitimately have something to do with this case please go to the private forums. I think we can band together there and work this mess out.

This post has been edited by kengsim: Jan 14 2008, 04:14 PM

Because even if he's found guilty, the court cannot compel him to pay his victims back. He can be fined and jailed for cheating, but that fine goes into the government's coffers and not into your pockets. The quantum of the fine is also according to whatever section of the Criminal Procedure Code (CPC) under which he is charged. They cannot exceed that stipulated by the law.

In many cases, victims can engage a lawyer and sue the perpetrator, but in our case, we can't even decide on simple things like whether or not to lodge reports, let alone engage a lawyer. Also, not to mention lawyers are super expensive these days...