Sifu sekalian, this year seems unlucky start.

Need help on rental agreement on a retail lot with local shopping mall.

TLDR,
1. Shopping Mall Landlord issued Letter Interest
2. We paid some money
3. Landlord issued Letter Offer
4. We paid full downpayment
5. Landlord ask us start renovation while they preparing Tenancy Agreement. They keep mentioned LO is actually binded agreement.
6. We submitted all 3d drawings, design, marketing plans and all - they love it
7. We chase Tenancy Agreement to start work, they delayed almost 4 months - then out of sudden terminate everything
8. Most funny is - they forfeit our downpayment as well and blame us didn't start renovation when letter offer issued.

Swear to god, we did nothing wrong. We suspect they found some better brand to replace us.

Is above legal? Where can we file complaint.

all communications documented? if got prove can hire lawyer....

With what reason they delay the tenancy agreement? 4 months? This thing if delay couple of weeks also bising edi.

which mall?
pm

The standard practice is you start renovation according to the handover and fit out date stated in the LO. Don't need to wait for TA.

Don't tell me 4 months already you still not yet start your renovation. If I landlord I also find other tenant.

later you see what is the new shop

read the terms & conditions of LO properly. most likely forfeit as you fail to meet T&C stated in LO. better engage a lawyer to advise if you have a legal recourse. LO is a legally binding document and subject to all conditions being met

This post has been edited by stryfox: Mar 14 2025, 02:40 PM

really. 4 months no start work.

But why so long still no TA?? IMO the owner should be more kancheong to bind it with TA.

According to this thread, letter of offer is legal binding.
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4214525/all

Pretty sure the mall’s lawyer drafted good LO when signed it’s siding them. Can share the LO here?

This post has been edited by knwong: Mar 14 2025, 02:47 PM

My previous experience to get the stamped TA is 3 months after the LO.

My guess is the landlord may see TS as a red flag as he refused to start renovation after a long time.

Wait why kena wait for Tenancy Agreement?
Last time I got letter offer got written there must complete renovation do everything by a specified "Commencement Date".

Retail lot for mall tenancy also.

What if tenant proceed to do renovation all everything.

Then owner decided not to rent. And reimburse back the previous deposit? Like cheating the tenant to make free renovations to them

Imagine like this, tenant do all renovation. Then owner gostan don't wanna rent. Owner decided to get himself penalty only by giving back the tenant the deposit and the rental as compensation.

Then it's a breach of contract by the landlord and they can be sued for compensation on loss or damages caused by it.

Thanks all!

Because as this is a huge sum investment, we have raised our concern that we need the TA due to worry finer small prints we might disagree.

2. Thats why we produce all drawings, 3d, everything in the meantime waiting the TA which landlord mentioned TA should be ready a while more only...

3. Another reason is, again as a huge investment - they provide us Capex for ground works such as flooring and aircond (abit la) - supposedly to be issued after sign TA that mentioned in LO <-- maybe thats why they refused to issue.

4. Question of why wait 4 months... because we continuously chase, they ghosted us as well - We actually chasing for holidays sales that time. Now we missed it.

5. Then tertiba come back and bite us say we didn't do anything.

This post has been edited by eldenring: Mar 14 2025, 04:10 PM

Another thing is we actually started some of the works, but as TA nowhere to be seen, we begin to worry.

During the 4 months, we continuously chase TA but no new

This post has been edited by eldenring: Mar 14 2025, 04:05 PM

7. We chase Tenancy Agreement to start work, they delayed almost 4 months - then out of sudden terminate everything

You didn't start do your renovation during this 4 months?

Did Landlord issue handing over list to you?

Yes they handed over after LO signed, but not complete. Means for example we rent 5000sqft. They only handover 3000sqft. Another 2000sqft not fully handover.

My contractor mentioned if they issue start work, all manpower will go in, cannot halfway here halfway there. This will incur huge cost.

This post has been edited by eldenring: Mar 14 2025, 04:13 PM

Brother deal between nation also got people gostan, they can still settle it out at world court (ICJ).

Also depending on the term also, on grounds of technicalities the landlord might maintain the stance that TS might have not upheld his end of the deal, hence not proceeding with the rental.
Yes it fucking sucks when the landlord do this kind of shit for whatever reason, but they're the landlord you're the tenant at the end of the day.

In this case all you can do is clarify on what grounds they've terminated the deal, consolidate all proofs & records surrounding their reasoning and initiate legal.
Regardless of how the case proceeds, all the while you're still out of retail lot, red in your balance, still have to pay for lawyer and for them it's just a empty lot without tenant as their legal dept. (already on payroll) attend your case.

Recently read a case where the mall did a 'constructive dismissal' to a tenant so that some new PRC player can come in to rent out the bulk of the floor.

you renovate your shop let say, to show Osim products, but new tenant come in is Maxis.

sure have to demolish lah.

All different interior design la

We already lost about half million ringgit for all preliminary works.

Welp that really really sucks. Hope you got all the technicalities covered mate when they clarified termination is on what ground even after LO issuance.

This would probably a better place to ask:
https://www.jbg.gov.my/index.php/en/services/legal-advice
https://guaman.my/legal-advice-in-malaysia/

Some lawyer offices also provide free / low cost legal consultations, google around. No waste in engaging as many party as possible.
https://tyhlawyers.my/property-and-probate-...ce-in-malaysia/
https://www.lowpartners.com/freelegalhelp/
https://malaysia.themispartner.com/lawyers/
https://chungchambers.com/free-online-legal-clinic/
https://lpplaw.my/about-us/how-we-work/

Hope it fares well.

Without posting the Letter Offer (LO) it is difficult to say who is at fault or maybe both party also at fault.

In addition, is there any letter in writing that the landlord intend to terminate if the tenant fails to comply with the LO ?

Is the shortfall area tenanted during the signing of LO ? If yes, is it stated in the LO regarding handover ?

Is there any notice in writing given to the Landlord stating the shortfall in the handover of the entire area and that tenant is unable to proceed with the renovation ?

half mil? damn. definitely consult lawyer..

We have too many emails and whatsapp that we cant proceed without TA. They agreed and keep saying it will be issued very soon and ask us to start work first.

Its kinda chicken and egg, if we kickstart - everything need to keep continue. Thats what we worried.

In fact there are many proofs that they agreed Ta will be issued very soon and capex will immediately issued. Dont worry!

You didn't answer the questions I posted.

In the LO, it didn't state the time frame to sign the TA ? In a tenancy, landlords normally don't allow tenants to take possession of premise without the TA. So in your case, it was an exception.

Did the LO stated that tenant are allowed to proceed reno pending TA ?

This post has been edited by mini orchard: Mar 14 2025, 06:48 PM

TS just hire lawyer. None ktard here is legal advisor.

U spent 500K but asking for free law advise in forum?
Just engsgr lawyer and show all your stuffs. They will tell u got chance to win or not

Yes of course our company did. Just see what public opinions and equipped with better knowledge. Who knows.

If wait lawyer, in our mind - sure everything we correct.

Public dont know the LO conditions. Not possible to advise.

Just let lawyer settle it, there are many details which u cannot disclose here and none of us can advise u. AFAIK nasi sudah jadi bubur, at most u can only initiate legal action and seek for monetary compensation and refund of deposit.

Once u go down to that route, your relationship with that mall management is totally gone. That is something u need to consider carefully.

P/S : Did u consult legal advise when the LO issued? Normally a big business like this sure seek for legal advice.

This post has been edited by yhtan: Mar 14 2025, 07:53 PM

Yes we did consult. It seems nothing wrong at all.. Its not our first business anyway.

You are right, thanks! - there are too many things cant disclose. But just feeling really unethical if you look into all the details. But hey, business world right. Definitely not trying blaming, or victimizing ourselves la...

I always feel that if read through this kind of story, mayyybe preventable.

Until wacky angel comes in with universal red card. Can literally go any threads and say "You didnt disclose everything, not possible to advice u, go hire lawyer,doctor,psychiatrist..", means no more topic already.

This post has been edited by eldenring: Mar 14 2025, 08:46 PM

u want people opinion yet u only tell your side of the story. if want to be objective, just post LO (u redact parties details/confidential info) and u might get honest/objective views of your situation. or else these are only hearsay. Just as landlord decide to terminate, they also have their side of the story. there always a reason to it.
Dragging until 4 months just to be terminated reflect your side not doing enough to protect. did u write beside just asking for TA that u should at least seek in the event you do not received at least draft TA, then u have the recourse to compel landlord to fulfill their part. Also, 4 months does appear unreasonable time for u to wait. I assume u do not have a legal department to advise business/commercial decision or operational matters?

This post has been edited by stryfox: Mar 14 2025, 09:06 PM

Consult lawyer by paying fees or just 'friendly' lawyer 😂.

We are not a big company, dont have legal department. I mean when you sign LO, which seems just like any other LO - have you ever thought of any landlord wont issue TA?

We wait because we need to settle the ground works, which paid by them. Not us. Without the ground works, we cant start anything.

In the LO they stated they will pay the ground works once TA signed.

As mentioned, never in our mind that they won't issue TA. We did email and all to chase the TA, but it always comes with reasons like waiting management, change of head, etc.

Takkan, we terus send a legal to them. As one user pointed out, takkan break the relationship for this long term business. Once we in their mall, it going me maybe 6 or 9 or more since heavy investment kan.

TS avoided replying to certain questions raised a red flag that the tenant is part of the problem why the LO is terminated.

Pm me.. look at my username

In the offer letter, standard one it normally write that if the owner refuse to rent after signing the offer letter, owner has to compensate, returning the previous deposit and further paying 1 month rental cost to tenant. But it didn't mention about the renovation that has been done in the meantime period.

Damn dispute one

What if the landlord sendiri want to run that business?

Yeah U already wanna show osim. So he wants to take over everything, kick U out and sendiri operate his osim

This, in LO, it should have stated :-

When to pay the balance deposit,
When to grant vacant possession,
When to sign tenancy agreement.

We really need to have a look on that LO so justify this case

When to pay the balance deposit, - paid all
When to grant vacant possession, - handedover half / not complete handover
When to sign tenancy agreement - no mention when they issue TA

you need to list our the actual terms and conditions of your offer letter.

does it explicitly say that it is legally binding.

is your offer letter stamped

Probably you were scammed and they have some loophole. It's generally how things are now..stay safe everyone.

For you will cost in legal tens of thousands, throwing more money in.

For them they'll just use the money they scammed you to defend them, so it's zero cost game for them.

When comes to law, not everyone can go all the way to fight it. And most the scammers know this.

This post has been edited by jonthebaptist: Mar 15 2025, 01:21 PM

The LO itself is from the mall management? It seems like not beneficial to the tenant side... They should have stated everything out clearly like the LO we property agency are providing

Fully agree. But its a berhad company. Cant let them just use tactic and simply bully. Yes underdtand you guys dont havr full Lo to feedback.

In fact we have full trail of they said TA already on the way, just start renocation. We initially started a bit putting up hoarding board, measures and do all neccessary planning until halfway.. our bosses worry about their investment.

I mean plain common sense, you cant invest maybe 2-3m into it without TA, thats just againts any logic.

And as stated, we cant wait halfway and simply send a legal letter demanding as we kena jaga the relationship right. Ppl is landlord ma.

Legally, hope the lawyer do their best but just wanted find out any other thing can do - not just sit diam diam and blame on past, should do better in future or blame anyone.

My point is - maybe we are not the only one, they can just rinse and recycle this tactic over and over again because all victims blame themselves, ask forums and cant fight big corp.

Honestly even my oversea friend said thats why do business in malaysia is scary.

This post has been edited by eldenring: Mar 15 2025, 04:47 PM

chances of that happening is very low and quite coincidental.

besides, if you are the landlord with osim dealership, why would you give rental to another osim dealership then change your mind?

Is this at One city ah?

Free renovation. Assuming renovation cost 500k.
Then rental there penalty back to tenant 50k