paiseh.

cars for me i willingly to lose all of its value rather than thinking its second hand value.

outside fast charge
outside slow ; home ; home with solar

all will have different rate

again why need to buy another car if yours is perfectly working just to willingly lose it's value?

Yeah. I take it as similar as the need to overhaul an engine after 8 years of use. Probably lose some FC at that point, a bit louder etc2. Probably  not necessary since most people can live with the decrease in performance.

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Proton X70 ICE-V car = from RM99k.

Proton eMAS 7 EV car = rebadged Geely Galaxy E5 = from RM110k.
Proton eMAS 7 on 1 Jan 2026 = from RM130k.?, since no more EV tax exemption.

If you pay RM30k more, what is the ROI on petrol and maintenance costs saving.?

Will insurance premium be higher for Proton eMAS 7.?

How long can the EV battery and electric motor last before needing replacement.? .......

https://insideevs.com/news/699413/highest-m...ries-14-motors/ - UPDATE: This 1.24 Million-Mile (2014) Tesla Model S Is On Its 14th Motor, Fourth Battery Pack
It's the highest-mileage Tesla in existence. - 4 April 2024

Note that for Tesla Model 3 in USA, refurbished battery replacement = about US$12k/RM52k, and new electric motor replacement = about US$6k/RM26k.
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after 15 months and 27k km, wonder ever need to replace

15 months battery degrade 2.29%

So if we consider battery degration to be linear.

Per month, the battery degrades at a rate of 0.152%. Per annum it is 1.83%

Per decade its 18.3%.

So battery health at 10 year mark is 81.7%

Again this is based on the rate that the battery degrades on a linear scale.

But we all know it is not..

Also, as someone else pointed out, battery degradation is non-linear. The most degradation usually happens in the first year or two, then tapers off. Most EV models haven't been around long enough to draw significant conclusions about long term

if u look at the curve carefully (or use a ruler) , it is already starting to taper off

after 15 months and 27k km, wonder ever need to replace

15 months battery degrade 2.29%

So if we consider battery degration to be linear.

Per month, the battery degrades at a rate of 0.152%. Per annum it is 1.83%

Per decade its 18.3%.

So battery health at 10 year mark is 81.7%

Again this is based on the rate that the battery degrades on a linear scale.

But we all know it is not..

Also, as someone else pointed out, battery degradation is non-linear. The most degradation usually happens in the first year or two, then tapers off. Most EV models haven't been around long enough to draw significant conclusions about long term

if u look at the curve carefully (or use a ruler) , it is already starting to taper off

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Fyi, .......

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/why-m...s-an-ev-battery - Sep 2018 - why-mobile-phone-batteries-do-not-last-as-long-as-an-ev-battery
.... The EV battery also ages and the capacity fades, but the EV manufacturer must guarantee the battery for eight years. This is done by oversizing the battery. When the battery is new, only about half of the available energy is utilized. This is done by charging the pack to only 80% instead of a full charge, and discharging to 30% when the available driving range is spent. As the battery fades, more of the battery storage is demanded. The driving range stays constant but unknown to the driver, the battery is gradually charged to a higher level and discharged deeper to compensate for the fade.

Once the battery capacity has dropped to 80%, the oversize protection is consumed and the battery maintenance system (BMS) applies a full charge and discharge. This exposes the EV battery to a similar stress level of a mobile phone and the driver begins noticing reduced driving range. Battery replacement may become necessary but the cost will be steep and higher than a combustion engine." ...

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-10...tric-vehicle-ev - 27 Aug 2019 - battery-aging-in-an-electric-vehicle-ev

= new Tesla EV cars have a "grace battery capacity" or unused capacity of 20%, in order to satisfy US government requirement for battery warranty of at least 8 years or 100,000 mileage or 160,000 km, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of battery capacity over the warranty period.  So, for the first few years, new Tesla EV cars suffer little to no battery degradation/aging/capacity fade.
.

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Fyi, .......

https://chejiahao.autohome.com.cn/info/15424287 - Google Translated: I've been driving my BYD Yuan EV for almost 5 years. How much does it cost to replace the battery? Car owner: I'd better change the car - 9 June 2024
.... However, the price of the new battery surprised Mr. Wang - as high as 67,840 yuan (= RM42k), not including other costs such as labor and refrigerant. This price is almost a quarter of the cost of his original purchase. Compared with the maintenance cost of fuel vehicles with the same mileage, the maintenance cost of electric vehicles is undoubtedly too high. Such high maintenance costs made Mr. Wang begin to consider whether to give up electric vehicles and return to fuel vehicles. ...

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The BYD Yuan EV that Mr. Wang bought in 2018 was originally an optimistic attempt at new energy vehicles. The vehicle won his favor with its affordable price and good endurance performance. The official nominal range is 305 kilometers, and the actual situation is about 260 kilometers under ideal conditions. This is enough for Mr. Wang's daily city commuting. However, the problems gradually exposed by electric vehicles during use, especially the rapid decay of battery life, made Mr. Wang begin to doubt his initial choice.

As time goes by, the battery capacity of BYD Yuan EV continues to decline. By 2020, the battery's charging capacity can only reach 85%, and by 2022, this figure has further dropped to 65%. The degradation of battery performance directly affects the actual use of the vehicle, especially in winter, when the battery performs worse in low temperature environments, and the cruising range is greatly reduced, making the vehicle almost unable to meet the needs of long-distance travel.

By 2023, the situation had deteriorated further, and the BYD Yuan EV's battery pack could not even charge properly. The vehicle's speed was severely limited, sometimes as slow as an ant crawling, which made Mr. Wang's daily travel extremely inconvenient. With no other options, he could only send the vehicle to the nearest 4S shop for inspection, and the result was as expected - the battery pack had reached the end of its life and needed to be replaced with a new battery. ...


= in 4th year, the BYD Yuan EV or Atto 3 battery had degraded to 65% = practically unusable.
= in the 5th year, the battery could not be properly charged = forced to replace EV battery = cost him RMB68k or RM42k.

So, maybe BYD Thailand was previously profit-gouging  Thai customers with it's Atto 3 battery replacement price of THB656k or RM84.4k when it's price in China was only RM42k.
....... Or maybe the THB656k price was for a new battery, not a refurbished one.
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P S - BYD's EV battery warranty excludes rideshare use like GRAB and Uber/Lyft.

EDIT: Please see my reply below to 'trusol', ie BYD Atto 3 (or Yuan Plus) battery replacement price is around RMB63k = RM39k in China.
.

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Fyi, ie real life usage, EV battery degradation of BYD EV cars is often >5% per year, and not <2% per year as hyped by the EV media, .......

Google Translated: The threshold for free battery replacement is high and you want to see the test report.

　　Many BYD car owners question whether the "lifetime warranty" service for car batteries is not worthy of its name, and expect the manufacturer to be more transparent about replacement standards and test results. ...

Battery test does not report

　　Consumers of family cars will also face the problem of battery capacity decay. Will the battery "warranty" be smooth?

　　Mr. Xia, a citizen, told reporters that he bought a BYD "Yuan" pure electric car in March 2020. "The data promoted by the brand at that time was that it could run about 410 kilometers on a single charge." Mr. Xia's new car was actually measured to run about 370 kilometers. Although there is a gap, he can also accept the possible deviation between the experimental data and the measured data. In the past two years, the car's endurance has declined year by year. "Now it can only run about 220 kilometers on the highway and about 280 kilometers on urban roads." Mr. Xia said that when he bought the car, the salesperson said that the vehicle could be replaced for free if it was 100,000 kilometers or more than 6 years old. Since the car has run more than 120,000 kilometers, he came to the BYD 4S store, hoping to replace the battery for free. But the 4S store reported: After inspection by the factory, the battery data is normal and will not be replaced. What confuses Mr. Xia is that everything is "the final say" of the other party. How much has the battery decayed, and to what extent will it be replaced? The 4S store has no clear answer. "Moreover, I asked for a battery test report, but was rejected."

　　Mr. Zhou, a citizen, had a similar experience. Mr. Zhou also has a BYD "Yuan" pure electric car, which was purchased in December 2020. Now, the vehicle's mileage has reached more than 120,000 kilometers, and its endurance has dropped significantly. "I drive about 160 kilometers to and from get off work. If I turn around at noon, I will encounter the problem of insufficient power. Now I can only drive about 200 kilometers." He called the BYD customer service hotline and then went to a BYD 4S store for battery testing. The store replied: There is no problem with the test results and it can continue to be used. "I have never been able to get a specific written test report." Mr. Zhou believes that according to the "BYD Auto Three Guarantees Certificate and Maintenance Service Manual", during the three-guarantee validity period of 2 years or 50,000 kilometers, the capacity attenuation limit of lithium iron phosphate batteries/ternary batteries is 15%, and the attenuation limit of 6 years or 150,000 kilometers is 25%. "My car has reached the battery replacement standard." The 4S store replied to the reporter that the battery attenuation data currently detected is less than 25%. ....
https://www.chinanews.com.cn/sh/2024/04-17/10200374.shtml - - Many BYD car owners question whether the "lifetime warranty" service for car batteries is not worthy of its name - 17 April 2024

280km/370km = 24% battery degradation after about 3 years = about 8% degradation per year.

P S - Tesla EV batteries are oversized by about 20%, in order to satisfy US government regulations of 8 years of warranty or about 150,000km mileage.
....... BYD EV car batteries are probably oversized by only 10% = in the 1st year of usage, <2% battery degradation, but thereafter a substantial rise in battery degradation of >5% per year.
.

Below are long term real life experience of EV battery degradation in CCP China.
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My reposts fyi, .......

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...ost&p=110355226

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...ost&p=110783927
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https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...ost&p=110994493
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i cant say about other EVs but definitely not tesla, as the battery health is already below 100% after a week of delivery and constantly dropped over time

if u have EV having 100% battery health for say 6 months then only started to drop then yes, it is over 100% at the beginning

not everyone stay landed duh

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It's likely that Tesla has programmed their cars' computer to show whatever they want to show, ie minimal EV battery degradation for the first few years wrt their 20% oversized battery.

Eg Tesla cars' computer will not tell the owner that their EV battery capacity is actually 120%, not  just 100%.
.

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No lah. Apples and oranges. .......

https://www.qoala.my/en/blog/asset-manageme...ngine-overhaul/ - 19 May 2023
....
Cost of Car Engine Overhaul

The overhaul process involves various complex procedures and mechanical work. This is because each engine problem requires different methods and solutions. In summary, the cost of a car overhaul is determined based on the services performed during the engine overhaul process. For local cars, the price of a top overhaul is typically around RM800-RM3000, while the cost of a full overhaul can reach up to RM5000. If many engine components are replaced or the process takes longer, the cost of the car engine overhaul may also increase. ...

= a full engine overhaul for an 8-yo car should be <RM10k, whereas a (refurbished) battery replacement for BYD Atto 3 Standard costs around RM40k - this is not counting the more frequent replacement of the EV electric motor which should cost about RM20k for a new one.
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Some EV reference, .......

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...ost&p=110964271
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