Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 Ultimate Current Gen Console Flaw Guide

views
     
TSbEaSt WaRs
post Nov 16 2007, 12:11 PM

New Member
*
Junior Member
37 posts

Joined: Oct 2007



QUOTE(nizam80 @ Nov 16 2007, 01:05 PM)
Based on my previous post, i'm just stating that the PS3 has 512MB RAM based on the Specs sheet. So Beast Wars, wat actually r u trying to point out here by quoting my post? Btw, this article seems familiar..... hmm.gif  whistling.gif
*
DETAILED ANALYSIS OF PERFORMANCE SPECIFICATIONS by DOUGLAS C PERRY

This post has been edited by bEaSt WaRs: Nov 16 2007, 12:13 PM
lamusiqa
post Nov 18 2007, 06:45 AM

Casual
***
Junior Member
397 posts

Joined: Feb 2007
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Wow. I haven't seen this FUD in months(referring to bEaSt WaRs article post)! It was totally disproved when Killzone 2's E3 '07 trailer and GT5 Prologue trailers was released but I guess you can still use it on normal folks who wont understand more than half of the technical jargon.

Something that is worthy to point out is that you can tell its a bad comparison when there's a lot of IF's. Like this one:

QUOTE("bEaSt WaRs")
If the PS3 GPU keeps the 6800 pixel shader pipe co-issue architecture which is hinted at in Sony's press release, this again gives it 24 pixel pipes* 2 issued per pipe + 4 vertex pipes = 52 dot products per clock in the GPU.

If the RSX follows the 6800 Ultra route, it will have 24 texture samplers, but when in use they take up an ALU slot, making the PS3 GPU in practice even less impressive. Even if it does manage to decouple texture fetching from ALU co-issue, it won't have enough bandwidth to fetch the textures anyways.


The general consensus on RSX right now is that as a GPU, it is comparable to Xbox 360's Xenos with Xenos winning over a small performance margin. However, this article failed to mention that RSX is able to work in tandem with the CELL chip to offload graphical tasks such as rendering polygons to the CELL. What this means is that both RSX AND CELL can work together to render graphics far more complicated than Xenos ever could simply because Xenon and Xenos are unable to do so. Developers are picking up speed on the CELL architecture and it won't be long till you play a graphical marvel unachievable on an Xbox 360 (Killzone 2 anyone?).

Well this whole article is flawed, really. Seeing how it emphasized on "3 General Purpose Cores are better than 1" theory and it's ridiculous total system bandwidth, I might as well clear up some things.

QUOTE("bEaSt WaRs")
The Cell's seven DSPs (what Sony calls SPEs) have no cache, no direct access to memory, no branch predictor, and a different instruction set from the PS3's main CPU.


They DO have cache. Just that they're not called Cache and functions a lil bit different. Each of the cores have their own 256kb local SRAM. Compared to Xbox 360's bottlenecked CPU which has 3 cores sharing one 1MB L2 cache, CELL has 2MB of total on-chip local SRAM memory[(1 PPE + 7 SPE) x 256KB].

Besides, the "DSPs" as you'd like to call it are highly specialized in calculating physics, vertex, AI codes, sound processing and various other computational work.

QUOTE("bEaSt WaRs")
They are not designed for or efficient at general purpose computing. DSPs are not appropriate for game programming


Right and wrong. The CELL chip is indeed not designed for an efficient general purpose computing. This is due to the fact that it was designed and built to be a specialized chip all along. Specific game codes such as AI computing, physics, sound channels, and graphics requires heavy optimization and this is where the SPEs excels at. For the game engine, in most cases, the PPE will be running it because the PPE has a 64-bit general purpose register set (GPR), a 64-bit floating point register set (FPR), and a 128-bit Altivec register set which are adequate for running today's game engines and instruct the SPEs to do their work.

What is true, however is that it takes quite a level of optimization to get the SPEs working at high efficiency. This will change in the near future as developers and programmers get familiar with the architecture.

QUOTE("bEaSt WaRs")
Bandwidth
The PS3 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and 25.6 GB/s of RDRAM bandwidth for a total system bandwidth of 48 GB/s.

The Xbox 360 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and a 256 GB/s of EDRAM bandwidth for a total of 278.4 GB/s total system bandwidth.


Ah. The infamous total system bandwidth thing. In a hindsight, Xbox 360's total system bandwidth beats the hell out of PS3's in a big magnitude. Although in reality.. Xbox 360's the less capable one in this matter.

To put it simply, the 256GB/s out of the total 278.4GB/s is the eDram internal logic to its internal memory bandwidth. Not internal CPU bandwidths. The high bandwidth is used primarily for z-buffering, alpha blending, and antialiasing. The eDram is mainly touted to allow all Xbox 360 games to have 4xAnti-Aliasing with no performance hit on the GPU performance however there are games that has aliasing issues, at 720p.

The physical bandwidth between the eDram to the GPU is 32GB/s and the link between the CPU and GPU is 10.8GB x2. Both the CPU and GPU has to share the unified RAM and in effect, they both have to share the 22.4GB/s link.

Unlike the Xbox 360, PS3 has 2 RAM pools. The 256MB XDR RAM @ 3.2Ghz is linked to the CELL CPU at the speed of 25.6GB/s and the 256MB GDDR3 @ 700MHz is linked to the RSX at the speed of 22.4GB/s. Both CELL and RSX has access to the 2 RAM pools and they do not have to share the bandwidth to their assigned RAM. In practicality, CELL has no need to access the GDDR3 although RSX may require more RAM space for graphics data and has to go through CELL to use the XDR RAM.

Basically PS3 has a faster means of using the RAM pools but it requires more optimization to use it efficiently.

The problem with games looking better and more detailed on Xbox 360 these days are basically due to the fact that developers creates a game with Xbox 360 being the lead platform and then port over the game code to the PS3. This is highly inefficient as the two has different architectures and throwing a code that's started on a unified RAM to a split RAM without proper optimization always results in poor performance. Multiplatform games on PS3 such as Call Of Duty 4 that started from scratch and were not ported over from Xbox 360 shows how a good optimization can go a long way in achieving high quality.

There's still a lot of untapped potential in the PS3 and once the developers gets the kinks out of the way, we'll be seeing and playing a lot of amazing games like the it's predecessor; PS2.

Last but not least, the article was written by Douglas C. Perry, while he was in the employment of IGN, working for the XBOX team as the Editor. Obviously the article was biased from the get-go.

This post has been edited by lamusiqa: Nov 18 2007, 06:48 AM
ruztynail
post Nov 18 2007, 09:04 AM

Acrimonious Young Man
******
Senior Member
1,886 posts

Joined: Jan 2005
From: world above you



» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


GOOD article wei.. all the jargons early in the morning. rclxub.gif rclxub.gif rclxub.gif

haha but thanks for clarifying. i really hv been reading about all the techie details whn cell was launch its blueprint its detailed architecture. and honestly.. its one freaking amazing piece of handy work by all tats in it.

SONY toshiba and IBM. no doubt it took years and R&D and capital and most importanly man power.. Microsoft even wit help frm IBM did theirs in a nick of time.. jus to put up wit the competitors. reason being. cell research commenced in march 2001 (2 years after ps2), xenon started in nov 2003 (360 was release in 2005) and about two years of research was enuff moreover lacking an additional super power techie company...

anyways only time will tell. the producers and developers are out there making mostly better games for the 360 due to the fact they are driven by the market forces of the 360 (sony's very first bad mistake on the ps legacy) since the market numbers are against the ps3 in terms of number of house hold players. its logical if they make better games for the 360.

and once the numbers are stabilized.. we can thn see the major changes.. in 2008..

another driven factor is the MEDIA.. all the small little rumours going about changes consumers opinion in a sec.. tats next gen for you. if u noticed allot of media is going out to stomp sony's ps3 in any way possible. call me crazy or naive.. but there forces at work here beyond the normal conduct. (i cant mention u know who sort).

all i wonder is how the market will eventually play out and we will see how long it will all end next year..

microsoft is churning out the new xbox in 2011. roughly giving it a 6 year period. ps3 is supposedly to last 10 years. lookin at how the ps2 is still in fashion despite the ori xbox going out of commission. we can thn deduce thay sony's time line is pretty accurate.. not bad huh for a company in the beginning whom everyone thought wouldnt go into console business to lead with 2 gens. and thn being aggressively beaten up in the next one.. sweat.gif

still me respects for the japs. thumbup.gif


lamusiqa
post Nov 19 2007, 01:02 PM

Casual
***
Junior Member
397 posts

Joined: Feb 2007
I think the next Xbox will come out around 2010. Most probably, yeah. PS3 really needs all the help it can get to win this generation. One thing's for sure though.. If the pirates can finally hack the PS3 to play bootlegs, Malaysia's and China's adoption rate of PS3 is gonna soar. hahahah

4 Pages « < 2 3 4Top
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0138sec    1.02    6 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 19th December 2025 - 04:44 PM