It is true dat local ppl dun seems the web design will cost even up to Rm500.
I had been wasting quite alot of time meeting clients dat is not really keen to haf a website(after knowing the price) even though my price is comparably average level.

Recently, my friend can't get back his RM1500 as last payment.

one of the reasons why i didn't want to join the arts programs, (i took accounts) was because the fact that this kind of work is easily exported. How hard would it be, to pay someone through paypal in the US for a small commission, and he'll send you the work.

It's greatly outsourced, which is a problem. That means, competition for this stream of work is intense, because the job can either be yours, or some fella in korea or russia. Your talent will be matched against those of the world, and if you ain't good enough, you'll lose behind.

Time, is also against you. Everyone knows that everyone else is improving, and so, you will have to improve too. But barely starting, how good can you be compared to the likes of the professionals?

Comissions for few hundred can be obtained easily through sites like deviantart and cgtalk, thus reducing the amount of potential business for locals.

At the same time, if you have the talent, you can get paid from overseas. People will want you to design their stuff, and all across the world, you can have quite a good pay.

My 2 cents. Good day.

I dont really think locals businesses actually take the time to search for potential artist in deviant art and cg talks. Alot of them are unknowledgeable about alot of things. What your speaking on is exactly the same as any other profession, you dont start of a professional you make yourself one or you go and find work somewhere else. Everyone has the equal chance to expose and self educate themselfs about the market as well as updating themself with new market and social knowledge. It isn't impossible and as a matter of fact speaking from a 20 yr old student / freelancer. I get work most of the time and I believe in competition. Why shouldnt we be competitive with international professionals. This is the nature of any business and everyone knows that, either shape up or ship out. Maybe i'm abit harsh but your perspective on this is slightly narrow and quite negative.

Places such as deviantart and cg are places to look for potential talents. Whats wrong with a company looking there for 'professionals' when you cannot provide them what they want. I'm so called 'barely starting' but I've worked freelance over a year and get very interesting jobs as well get a pay that I want. Its not just about commissioning stuff overseas. Its about our current design standard in Malaysia which is currently low. We got so many pseudo designers who claim themselves designers when their actually technicians. Overall our design scene is young, but we also need to have 'quality' not quantity, and right now in the market we have alot of unemployed Designers, not cause of the lack of jobs.

But the lack of (you fill in the blanks)...

talent? is that the word you want me to fill in, or is it something else?

In our country, i often feel that it isn't the lack of talent, but those who have the talent pursuing some other career.

the word is definitely not talent my friend... I feel we have plenty of that as we do of graphic designers...
we have people who are lack of exposure, the ability to want to be open and learn more.
Are you telling me the average graduate Design student knows whats going on in the market?
Or that they know the basic sense of 'professionalism?' or how to research on specific topics or on the market? How to actually find jobs? Why is our turnout every year in graduates from design schools who work in the market so low?

Honestly what do you think is the source of these problems. If your saying we cant even compete with professionals what is our solution? Give up and try another profession? Our film, design and music scene have been struggling for the last decade and it hasnt struggled for no apparent reason.

there are competitions, contests held by game design studios, there are online art sites, and there's something the artists themselves need to do. The artist should not limit himself to learning from jobs. There are so many places to learn, aren't there?

Exposure is in a part of the problem. There is a lack of vibrance and community of digital/traditional illustrators and designers here. I've heard that having contacts in the West was very important, as recommendations from a fellow designer can often help a person find jobs.

As you said, the jobs are there, but then, what is wrong? Do the artists see nothing to learn from this jobs, or what?

Exposure. I think there should be some sort of internship/apprenticeship system in our country, although i doubt it'll work. These people should also try to promote themselves at all the job fairs and stuff. They should attend any convention of companies, give them the designers contacts and stuff. Even if they don't have a job now, later they might do.

Unfortunately, the odds are stacked against the designer. Malaysia's need for adverstisement is limited in the sense that the mediums are limited, the population in tune that responds to it is small.

Lastly, I think the population itself doesn't support locals. The companies buy foreign stuff because frankly, they are businesses, they know foreign art can appreciate and stuff, their goal is to make money, not 'sponsor' local artists who don't seem particular serious, and just rather indulge in abstractive paints. (not all artists are like that, just some)

A lot of my opinions are skewed. SWT...

Lets just list down a list of things that some graduates dont do-

1) Behave and always act professional
2) Dress properly
3) Taking responsiblity and dealing with time management
4) marketing themselves or companies
5) Research and find out more practically to anything not just design but the country and society itself.
6) Self educate + self learn
7) passionate and persistent
8) ask questions
9) ask intelligent questions
10) Take critique (this is a big bloody issue in Malaysia, many designers are unable to take criticism or critiques well, they see it as a personal attack instead of something which can come out to be positive and constructive).
11) Presentation
....

I could go on but I wish not too. Our problem is not the lack of support for local, after all designers dont need support, they wish more for 'recognition'. They dont receive this as yes malaysia's market is still young and not quite matured yet. But this cannot be an excuse to problems that hold designers down.

I attended a ceremony recently back 3 months ago of my seniors in LICT and the One academy where they were holding exhibitions of their work and no offence but about 80 % of them cannot design or know the term design. A person knows how to use a photoshop, director or illustrator counts themself straight away as a designer. The term designer here isn't taken professionally and seriously. Overseas a person who is a doctor or a lawyer has to uphold that sense of professionalism as well as the maturity and the mentality for that particular occupation, whilst for designers everywhere not just in Malaysia we have this constant dilemma.

I do agree that we do lack workshops and conventions here, but I ask you what are people doing here about it? Are you telling me people cant form their own competitions or workshops? Or start a community or a club with a general interest to learn?

The problem is with the people. Every root of problem in society is from the person. People are make things complicated, not life.

This post has been edited by nada-: Jan 18 2006, 10:01 PM

life as designer is like that...

well said

you're so right...my life

The price quoted how worthy are your works. If one just do it just for interest, but not $, how can one survive in this world? All of us do our job with payment, remembering there is no free lunch in this world. Being passionate or not doesn't count in when it comes to "are you having enough of $ to buy bread today?"

By the by, Da Vinci got famous after he is dead. All the time he is poor, because his work is not up to recognition at his living time. If one's works are not valuable while at his/her living time, it's useless to have a masterpiece that is worth a million only after his/her death because he/she can't enjoy using the $ at all.

My 2 cents.

hehhehe...it usually come hard when it comes to friends......

wow... learnt a lot from first post. thanks for the tips infested_ysy

interesting...
interms of art... same fields as architecture...
mostly architect in malaysia is poor... profesionalism is not the case...
but the client itself... who doesn't know or educated valuable art/design...
but for next ten years... i think...they slowly aware.
As u know ... we're slowly enter to digitize/visual world... (globalization)
one more thing... in middle ease .. they know malaysian have lot of talent... in designing/visual communication...
keep it positive!

artist motto: impression /to be named = priceless... money can't buy!

I treat friends as clients and clients as friends so it doesn't make a difference. There's no special treatment when it comes to work. The only extras friends might get is more consultation because they're more willing to listen to another friend.

After all, they're your friends before becoming a client.

The Information is very helpful, thanks alot! infested_ysy

hi,
Right now i am doing internship, talking about dealing with client, you know wat.. it really irritates me that they are so fuzzing, i re-design the art work like more than 15 times and still they haunt me to add this and that, but thats okay for me.. when client told us to re-design the whole thing and this pissed me off. What my boss told me is some of the client are picky, i feel very frustrated, but what can i do, i still do what i can to satify clients.

Yes is true that before i went outside the world expecting my art work is just all right, but when i come out to work and i realize i am in a whole new world a whole new level.



My lecturers always critique my artwork until he reach the point where i show him good quality work, even my lecturer hulimate me infront of my classmate. That doesn't matter, all that matter now is to improve yourself and get prepare to face the world. I take critque very seriously and i dont take it personal, i take it as motivation!

This post has been edited by Plant: Aug 16 2006, 04:41 PM

the first post was really informative. thank u very much!!!

Thanx!! Helped alot...!

That is the truth everybody, been conned twice already, my design other people modify a bit & packaging design with no return reply, Should have Print A BIG BOLD SAMPLE over the artwork...dammit, still gets to me everytime.

very usefull 1st post.. I'm a diploma comp science grad.. but I'm interested in becoming a graphic designer..

"A person knows how to use a photoshop, director or illustrator counts themself straight away as a designer" its a very interesting quote from nada.. is knowledge and the love for art more important then knowledge of graphic softwares?