Hi guys, new to this forum, i learn't organ for about 3 years when i'm 7, stopped at 10 y/o, now i'm 17 y/o, is it possible to learn by self?

Of course u can, any musical instrument also can learn by self. Go buy a piano now to start.

This post has been edited by kok_hui: Nov 3 2007, 12:59 AM

Well actually i'm seeking guide here, like what should i do to get to know more about piano, lol i know google is a best tool for me, but i hope i can get more info from here. =)

Yes possible, however if u stay around shah alam i can teach you for free, i am a diploma holder in piano.

Thanks for the offer, but sadly its too far from my house

well,its possible but not recomended la unless u only want to play popular music lo.

but if u put effort,theres alot of online lesson ,google it out, or on youtube.
i think youtube is a good place,cause whatever i dont understnad bout guitar,i can check on youtube,so i think youtube will have piano lessons

what do you want to play?
classical , or pop ?
there was an earlier thread about a 20+ year old guy wanting to learn keyboards.. and the 'play by ear' course was mentioned and explained in detail in that thread..

Hmm, classical..some anime's opening theme, and the most famous one, Secret, LOL

hmmm. categories as POP then.
i guess those kind of songs are quite easy to learn if u put effort in it.
good luck. maybe u can enroll in music class for 1-2months to understand the basics?? and u can quit after 2 month. after that watever u dont understand refer to ur friends or internet^^

Ic, thanks for the info guys =)

i agree on this too, but maybe a month or 2 later, you might not even want 2 quit realising how much more you need to learn before you can start self learning

the first few weeks are the toughest.
just stay strong n u will get the hang of it

Anything is possible as long as you put your heart in it.

I think there should be some online tutorials, google around.

This post has been edited by sean392: Nov 4 2007, 09:39 PM

I'll Second that.


Its important to know the correct techniques and basics in the early stage...
Just like anything else, solid foundation is vital.


Good Luck and Have Fun

hmmm wat should i do to learn piano myself?
i dun hav a piano or keyboard..
planning to get one keyboard but dunno which..
can u guys suggest one, which i can carry around?
cos i studying in melaka but i will go back my hometown once awhile..

i heard some say its easier to learn piano first then go learn piano but abit tougher to change from organ to piano, but nothign is impossible here as long as u got the determination!

being a beginner who wants to learn piano sendiri, and our house dont have any piano or keyboard >_<

is it possible to learn songs from friend directly instead of kaji how the keys/tones in the music score?

wanted to learn some song in the end of the year during school holiday, maybe future kaolui can use

haha, if kao lui learn electric guitar more easy^^

back to topic: yes, its possible to learn piano from friends directly.

but under few conditions lo:

-ur friend must be very good or else u wont get to suck much out of him

-buy ur own piano/keyboard, this will show ur friend that u are serious

-always practise before going to ur friend!! u dont want ur friend scold u like kanasai because u never practise

hmm. thanks for the advice =D

is there any low-end or cheap or lelong piano to buy? how much is it will be? rm100+- ?
is piano = keyboard?

>_< i'm so noob

wondered if there is any usb piano can plug into computer, aha.

rm100++ to cheap a budget.

keyboard alone cost 300-800 ( i guess)

if piano second hand also cost at least 1500-3000++

so if u are really serious, it will be worth the effort

Lol pasar malam got the toy one RM5 only =P
You can't get a piano for RM100+ dude. You want piano/keyboard at least RM1000 and that is second hand. RM2000 would be a very low end one. My electric piano is RM4k. Still ok ok only. So if you really wanna learn piano, you gotta be willing to spend that kind of effort to learn or all those money will go to waste. But hey, no one said music was cheap right?
My tip to you, if your budget is RM100+ go get a beginner yamaha guitar. Thats enough to kao lui if thats your intention.

Anyways, TS sound very much like myself. I learned at 8 and stopped at 13. By that time i was already grade 6. I could go on and finish grade 8 but i didn't. I couldn't stand playing pieces after pieces of exam songs year after year after year. But that wasn't the only reason, i also couldn't stand not being able to sight-read. even after 5 years of playing, i couldn't read the notes. I felt it was miserable and gave up.
Luckily, my parents allowed me to give up piano for the time being. But they said never to abandon music, it was just in my blood, since i was born ive been good with it, my parents told me. So then i proposed to my father i'd learn the guitar. He took the effort to choose a nice guitar, and by fate met an amazing teacher which brought me till today.
My dad and my teacher influenced me alot and since then, i've dreamed to become a musician.

Anyways, thats my life story. I'm 17 now and like TS would like to re-learn piano by myself. Any tips on sight-reading anyone?

Sorry to have spammed your thread with my life story haha ^^

http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=221370



i asked the TS he told me that this one is rm850

time to save some money.. rm850 seems ok as all of you here mentioned that most of them are 2k +++

All the best there, although i dont really recommend M-audio as i feel the key were quite jerky, for the price you cant really complain much...

I am very sure you will try to save up more once to upgrade you start to learn..

In your case, i think you were talking you trying to learn keyboards/synthesizer side, which is more towards accompany and creating sounds i think.. A real piano is not cheap.. But a keyboard can play what a piano does too not vice versa.

I am not sure what's the role of a keyboardist in a band, maybe playing chords and accompany? Usually guitar will be the lead?

http://www.telacommunications.com/nutshell...ic/musicres.htm
Cover most useful chords here, should be useful for you to start out.

It is wrong to think that guitars usually lead in the band. I like to say, a good band always has a keyboardist. Take Dream Theater for example. Keyboardist not only accompanies but usually adds extra effects/synth to give an extra feeling to the song. Take a small solo riff for example, when people hear the song, they will also remember the small keyboard riff despite being only a small part of the whole song.
This shows that every instrument in the band is important to produce a solid song, not only the guitar =)

@lazo, if you really want to take this seriously, and willing to spend, id recommend you consider buying a medium end keyboard. Buying an RM800 one is like buying a kapok guitar =/ no offense

will be able to last around 1 year perhaps for that keyboard to familiarize all basic theories i think..
I never play in a band before.. not sure about that..

if he is really serious about it, he will upgrade it soon or later..

Ah, thanks for all the advices!! it really gives me a clearer image of piano-ing.

indeed, being a spm-taker, i will have about 6 months of holidays after my exam, so i'm looking for something new to learn. i not actually like those rock music or getting involved in bands (but maybe i'll after i get addicted? xD) , but more on soloing some classic music when i'm at home for leisure or playing some latest song which can "impress" my friends (let it be chinese or english songs, jay's~ leehom's~ or when i getting pro can play maksim songs? ) *actually i wanted to play some love song for my brother in his wedding next yr *

the kaolui purpose i mentioned in a few post earlier is just joking la~ but learning new thing is great, isnt it? life long learning ma =D

perhaps i shall pay a visit to some music stores nearby and check with the price.

This post has been edited by lazo: Nov 10 2007, 06:58 PM

KEyboard veri Important dude. go think back ur CHILDHOOD, remember the POKEMON THEME SONG??! Without the keyboard it will just sound PLAIN.^^
hhmm, takes 2-3 months to learn the basics( It will take longer if u lelong, but if u are serious ,and practise 2-5 hours aday,*ur free right??* u wil get the hang of it )

in that 2-3 months, first learn easy pieces * go any music school and pick the bigginer book or take a few months of lesson* then straight away practise ur song, PRACTISES IT EVERYDAY, and i tell u wat, playing piano is like miracle happen

Example( real life experince)

today u play this part, play like shyt, SHYT SHYT!! no matter how hard u try but just seem that u cant achieve it, BUT U MUST KEEP ON PLAYING NO MATTER HOW HARD IS IT!

the next day u touch that part again ,it wil just seem perfect( serious) its like the brain interpret the data during ur sleep!!!

so good luck!!

*i guess u are really serious cause u take the effort to search for a keyboard good luck again dude!*

Lol im entering college right after spm, can't wait really. I need to achieve my dream!! xD So spm is nothing for me =P
Neways good luck with keyboarding~ ^^

About keyboards, Keyboards is a extremely versatile instrument.. It can play a whole load of stuff and types of music.. Provided you have a reasonable keyboard.


But on the other hand, a acoustic piano (Not electronic) has the more natural feel and sound. Everything comes with a price, you pay for what you get.


Just my 2 cents

If you guys want to learn piano, first of all you must get a real piano, not a keyboard, keyboard will never like a piano, you can't learn much using it, unless u just want to play some simple pop songs. And if u can afford, don't buy any 2nd hand or recond piano, because the sound is not good already, that will spoil ur learning, especially beginners, so prepare to spend 10K++ for the piano if u are serious. Learning piano never be cheap, so if u are poor, learn guitar is better and guitar is easier to kaolui also.

This post has been edited by kok_hui: Nov 11 2007, 12:10 PM

I agree with kok_hui, getting a low end instrument when you're a beginner will spoil your learning if you are serious about it ^^ lol 10k++ for keyboard, i think you meant piano >_>

since you already has a basic knowledge, i think it is quite possible.
either you learn by ear; by listening to the play and then figure out their notes and try to play by yourself.
or, learn by reading a notes, follow according to chords book as what i used to do

it's all depend your willingness to learn.
good luck.

Oops, typed wrong, 10K++ for piano of course, not keyboard. Beginners really shouldn't use a low end piano to learn, because that will affect ur ability to catch the correct sound of the piano. After u master the piano skill, then u can use any piano or keyboard to play. In my opinion, keyboard is for ppl who already know piano to play, for start, ppl should go to learn piano, not to learn playing keyboard. Spending 10K on piano is better than using the money to upgrade pc every year, because good piano can last very long time, besides, an expensive piano can make u more serious on learning the piano also.

yea, but however i'm going other state to study and it is not possible for me to carry a piano with me right >_<

I agree with kok_hui, a piano is actually a form of a lifetime investment.
Not many people can afford to upgrade often


So getting a good piano at the beginning stage is the best choice.

what if you lost interest or unable to continue.... you might argue it's up to your determination but things like that does happen.. Spending 10k+ on an acoustic piano, + further tuning every few times in a year, parts to be replace in few years once.. A piano can also be described as a rich man toy..

Further more, even ABRSM has recognised significant of digital pianos nowadays even in classical music examinations, i dont think an acoustic piano is a MUST in this case. It's cheaper to buy and maintain, space saving and some even have function assisting your learning path.

The harsh fact is also that to archive level of professional concert pianist, to begin at age of 17 it might already consider too late.

A good keyboard, any stage piano or digital keyboard, having midi input, you can actually connect it to a pc and play almost every sound you want, as well as learning some arrangement..

i'm not going for the [ professional concert pianist ] level la~

just playing for leisure >_<

learn more thing can make myself feel more contented

but i got a noob question, will those digital keyboard like our computer keyboard.. which some cannot press more than 3 or 4 button at the same time? >_< some keyboard only can press up to 3 button at the same time.. and this messed up the o2jamming >_<

Dude, don't forget that you need a computer with a decent soundcard to run this thing. And then you need a software modeler such as the True Pianos (Check out the audio clips here: http://www.truepianos.com/demos.php) for a good piano sound.

Nonetheless, you will definitely need not to spend more than RM2k if you take the Computer/MIDI route.

Plus, there're lots of free modelers out there such as the NuBi B3 Hammond Organ for you to play with.

Note: Those of you planning to go for the MIDI route, please do your research to ensure it fits your needs and you thoroughly understand how they work.

---

Added on November 11, 2007, 8:33 pmNope, I don't think they would. MIDI signals are lightweight after all. Search Youtube for some user vids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjGGjJtRhUg

This post has been edited by led_zep_freak: Nov 11 2007, 08:35 PM

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Keys...n88es-main.html

this caught my attention, perhaps it is around 1.5k. and it is bundle with software which can



perhaps this one should be fine for me as a begineer

This post has been edited by lazo: Nov 11 2007, 09:49 PM

This is not a piano, it's a controller, beginners should use a acoustic or digital piano (with stand and pedals and can output sound by itself one). Controller is for pro piano player who want to create different kind of sounds using the PC.

This post has been edited by kok_hui: Nov 12 2007, 12:02 AM

This could be 1 of the best deal of digital portable pianos i can spot some how
http://www.zzounds.com/item--YAMP70

although absent of midi output, however i felt that the touch feeling is relatively good and priced the lowest too(ignoring casio px100)

Mind that it's a weighted keyboard and it can be quite difficult to get used to initially.. should cost around RM2700 i think..

for your "sticky" key question, keyboard operates in a way to prevent pressing too many keys at a same time for some reason, preventing mis-typing. A musically keyboard doesn't have to be so, however numbers of polyphonic will be the limiting factor.

I own a 64 sound polyphonic keyboard and haven't encounter any situation where my tone is cut off.

This one better, nicer than YAMP70: http://www.zzounds.com/item--YAMYDP223

But the price gap is huge...
if you can afford that, you might also buy yamaha p140, roland fp-4(i am fan of this). yamaha cp33(stage piano)

personally feel roland and yamaha made good digital pianos

roland fp-4 is nice. yamaha p140 and cp33 is ok, but not yet complete (without stand and pedals), I still prefer the look of YDP223.

This post has been edited by kok_hui: Nov 12 2007, 12:32 PM

KORG keyboard FTW!! xD

o_O

seems like there are so many type of 'piano' available .. >_< and it confuses me..

anyone mind to explain or enlighten the diff between

- digital piano
- keyboard
- controller

thanks~

digital piano = trying to imitate a real acoustic piano, looks alike just without the high back(upright)
example : http://www.zzounds.com/item--YAMYDP223


keyboard/synthesizer
a device capable of producing different multiple sounds, some with weighted key(like the feeling when you are pressing a real acoustic piano) some with lighted plastic key. General function a organ except without the foot keyboard and double layer of keyboard.
example electone/organ: http://www.organfax.co.uk/instruments/yamaha/el900.html
example sythesizer: http://www.zzounds.com/item--YAMMOTIFXS8

Controller:
The is a device which only collect your signal(when you press any key) convert into a signal which your computer will output it's sound. Instead of the keyboard storing the sound sample, your computer will take over the job.
Example:http://www.zzounds.com/item--KORK61P

Stage piano:
trying to imitate a real acoustic piano too, except it has no lower body, usually for mobility in order to perform anywhere where it's needed. The pedal is usually different and rarely all 3 pedals were presence. More space saving then a digital piano
Example: http://www.zzounds.com/item--ROLFP4

you can refer here for more info
http://www.zzounds.com/cat--Keyboards-and-MIDI--2666
-Keyboard Synthesizers
-Digital Pianos
-Keyboard Controllers
-Samplers and Drum Machines
-Personal Keyboards
-MIDI Interfaces
-etc..

Spot on...

Also, difference between most MIDI controllers and the rest (Keyboards, Stage pianos etc) is that the MIDI controller doesn't come with a sound module. The controller only outputs MIDI data and in order to convert it to sound, you'ill need a external/software module. The good part about them is that they're portable and cheap, but you need a good soundcard and software to take advantage of it. There are controllers that come with built-in sound module such as the Korg K61P posted above, which are slightly more expensive.

Also, some digital pianos and keyboards come with MIDI outputs, which you could then hook it to the computer via a MIDI>USB converter.

E hem,

so indeed for my case I can just get a controller (which is cheaper) and link it to my computer to produce sound, right?

I see the M-audio keystation 88ES controller is just about RM1k, which is quite good in budget, for a beginner like me.

despite having to connect to a computer in order to play, there is no other aspect i have to worry or think about liao, isnt it ?

since i'm travelling to other state to play i need a really portable one to be with me, perhaps this little thing will solve my problem?

This post has been edited by lazo: Nov 13 2007, 09:17 PM

Since you are traveling to states, i really suggest you buy it there, NOT HERE!!

Just look at those page's price and after conversion.. It's still much cheaper..
basically it's like price In USD x conversion rate + RM1k = price you get in Malaysia.

Not to forget that you get better service, and more choice too. I think you have every right to get a full refund there too if you are totally unsatisfied...

This post has been edited by Sky.Live: Nov 14 2007, 12:54 AM

Actually you do... it's recommended that you get a soundcard/external audio interface (If you haven't already!) that supports ASIO and low-latency monitoring. Of course, you need a good software synths to convert your MIDI to actual audio. If you're playing piano, you could find some decent freewares here :http://www.kvraudio.com/
As for commercial synths check out Steinberg The Grand 2, NI Akoustik Piano and Truepianos.

Second Sky.Live's suggestion. You'ill get more brands to choose from there. Check out CME, which is apparently well-built and plays very well.

Also, since you would be traveling and a beginner, you might as well as get a 61/64-key to save space. I don't think a full-size keyboard would be necessary at the moment.

It is possible to learn piano by urself.

I never attend any piano class.. i learnt myself and bought a digital piano with my salary accumulated for 5 months.

Plz listen and tell me ur comment

Thx

http://www.mediafire.com/?9q3ndhd1wge

hey ! teach me ! i stay in shah alam.. i want to learn piano formally!!! thx a lot !!!

If you want to teach yourself classical piano, NO WAY.. if you really want, then get some basics 1st. Scales, notes, sitting position, learn to use a metronome etc.

When you've got the basics down, then you can learn some piano scores by yourself. (that's what i did, but i went by ear and not notes coz i've got a problem reading notes)

But if you want to learn electric keyboard, then.. by all means learn by yourself


Just remember that the Internet is a blessing.. you can learn anything from it

This post has been edited by aracia93: Jan 26 2008, 10:22 AM

Post deleted.

Cheers

This post has been edited by MyKapiz: Mar 7 2008, 10:57 PM

I do agree. There are a lot of piano learning courses available online. You just need to search deep which one will fit you.

hi guys,

just wanna share some thoughts of my own experience.

i've never attended any piano lessons in my life and im 20 now

been to my friends house 1 day and saw that he has a keyboard a super cheap keyboard those u can get at Toycity in the shopping malls

He has his own piano now since he "outgrew" the keyboard so he gave it to me. I've since practiced using Youtube and i manage to learn 2 songs from Final Fantasy X Suteki da ne and To Zanarkand however I only remember the keys and not actually read the notes which is the only dilemma

anyways just my 2 cents. you could always train on a keyboard and find a piano to play with later on its the same keys just different tone and pressure (for the keys because different piano have different key weight)

good luck

This post has been edited by moyong: Jan 14 2009, 07:48 PM

buy cheap keyboard first to refresh back your memories on the notes, scales and theories..

Youtube has a lot of tutorials available or you can always buy guide books to help you .

Can anyone free to give me some advice???

It is not possible to learn by by self???
From what I have read, everyone was stated that you must buy a good quality piano----mean expensive.......so that you will put your heart into learning.

I already 18 years old, so I m learning for fun but with heart not for --professional pianist.....

I only aim for know how to play some songs.......

it is only hard-graded ppl can play piano by ear???
I mean just hear the song then can play with piano????

i am interested to learn piano or keyboard by own...
i currently learning guitar...
any pro here and give some advice??
thx pro..=)

seriously u wanna buy that?

i suggest u don't, just get a normal keyboard with presets...
unless you're gonna do music programming..

if you buy that, u gotta use your computer to play it...

what is the difference between digital keyboard and stage piano??
anyone can explain pls..

Get "Piano for Dummies" at MPH. There are exercises on scales, reading taugeh, etc...

Important thing is to learn using the piano damper pedal. U will use it more than organ's sustain switch.

I took organ lessons for few years when i was a teen. now I'm learning piano songs by myself. I'm no genius, it takes me 1/2 year to learn one classical song like chopin nocturne op9 no2. so learning on your own is possible

wow.. i wan to buy roland digital piano fp4
but its out of my budget..
anyway, someone know where can the cheapest?

Actually it is possible to learn piano by yourself, and it much depends on how well do you wanna play. If you wanna be able to play, you can and it also depends on how much you practice.

If can, try to invest more than 1 hour and buy a adult piano lesson book and go through it slowly.

Of course, it is much easier if you have someone to guide you. Like when I learn piano, I had a very nice lady who is a piano teacher and my churchmate. Whenever, I'm at lost, like not knowing what key to press, she'd guide me, not to mention the counting and rhythm and etc.

When I started learning, i remember that I could knock each key correctly but I concentrate so hard on my fingers that I dont even know what I'm playing - no joke.

If you want this as a personal hobby, learning your own at a slower pace is indeed possible.

ive never took piano classes before. i started playing by my own like 1 year ago. problem about learn yourself is u wont be able to read notes and u wont know what your playing. but if u do some research then will be able to la. for me, its just me and the piano. if u have the passion for music, u will be able to learn. some people just wanna learn piano for the sake of wanting to play not loving music. i know some people like that do go far getting high grades in piano. but u can hear the difference once they play if u have music ears

I start playing piano on last october, learning all by myself, buying basic piano books, watching youtube, and practice with all my heart. and I choose songs that can make me feel good when playing.

It will be hard and slow progress without teacher, but if you put your effort and love into it, it will do.

---

Added on April 30, 2009, 12:16 amPianoteq is impressive.. Especially the latest version

This post has been edited by abcxyz: Aug 25 2012, 06:44 AM

Can u teach me the left hand function? Chord?

you my friend. is impressive!

woww.. old thread just been bumped..

anyway, its quite hard to learn piano/keyboard by self-teaching

been there and done that

too little progress in long period

The guy who invented the piano obviously didn't have a teacher, so yeah.

the only reason most slow down when learning by themselves is because of lack of motivation and sometimes a mentor

My grand father learned piano at 72 - so you can definitely get started with doing it now!

Below are best sites, resources to learn piano online in his humble opinion.

BEST 3 FREE AND PAID PIANO COURSES ONLINE:

=>1. LearnPianoIn30Days

LearnPianoIn30Days is a 30-day online piano lessons program instructed by singer and songwriter, Rachel James, who has got many years of piano playing on the scene, club around the world. She wants to share her experience as well as her piano playing skills for anyone who has the passion of piano.
Details:
Rated: 4.5* by 9600+ students
+ Online learning method: monthly membership site.
+ Free trial in 14 days
+ Refund policy: 60-Day Money-Back Guarantee
For more details, pls click here: LearnPianoIn30Days online course

=>2. PianoForAll

Details:
Rated: 4.6 by 16,000+ students
+ 138,203 students enrolled
+ Total time: 10 hours on-demand video
Here are detail: PianoForAll online course on Udemy

=>3. Free course on YouTube: Andrew Furmanczyk channel


This is a series of lessons that teach you how to play piano for yourself RIGHT from the VERY beginner all the way to the late intermediate/ early advanced stage of piano. These lessons have been RESHOT and these are the new lessons.
Here are the playlist: Learn How To Play Piano (NEW) - YouTube
=>AND BELOW ARE TOP 13 PIANO BOOKS ON AMAZON:
1) Adult All-In-1 Course: Level 1
2) Alfred’s Basic Piano Course for Adults
3) Piano Scales, Lessons with Elements of Basic Music Theory
4) Adult Piano Adventures All-in-One Piano Course Book 1
5) Modern Course for the Piano
6) John Thompson’s Easiest Piano Course
7) Alfred’s Self-Teaching Adult Piano Course
8) Primer Level – Lesson Book: Piano Adventures
9) Level 1 – Lesson Book: Piano Adventures
10) KP1B – Bastien Piano for Adults, 1 Book Only: A Beginning Course
11) Piano and Keyboard All-in-One for Dummies
12) Suzuki Piano School New International Edition Piano Book and CD, Volume 1
13) Piano Book for Adult Beginners

If you are determined you will learn...

As far as I know, now there are online self-taught teachers, which allow you to master at least the basic knowledge of the playing musical instruments, as well as mobile applications. This is a very interesting activity in fact. Even if you have never done music before, you can still start. The best option is to use the services of a teacher who can give you maximum attention, but here a lot depends on whether you want to learn for yourself or want to reach a more serious level.

It is possible! There are many online tutorials and classes and free music sheets to hell you learn online! I recently made a video where I gave some tips on learning music as a beginner, here's the video! 😁

FIFY

Thinking about taking up music but am rather tone deaf and not sure if I will stick with it.

Hello all, need some opinion and advise. I used to play Yamaha Electone (Organ) during my teens and have finished all grades.

But I have been stopped playing ever since for more than 20 years. I wanted to pick up again. What would be your opinion, should I continue pick up organ or Piano?

Thought to take up something or evergreen 🤪

Does anyone have some updated links on how to self learn? Most of the links provided in this thread are not valid anymore.

Background about me: Learned keyboard about 10 years back by going for classes, i can read the notes and play very simple songs by following the book (such as jingle bells, london bridge, happy birthday etc). However, i had to stop due to work and studies. I've learned from Alfred's basic adult piano book but it can be boring sometimes and i use the keyboard like once a year only now. I need the motivation or some simpler way to learn faster

This post has been edited by silverwave: Nov 23 2024, 04:01 PM

Very few people play organ nowadays. Better learn piano.

Get a good teacher and you will progress a lot faster with less frustrations. I can recommend you a good teacher if you are in KLANG VALLEY