More Pas than Pas 404. Madani just showing progressive Islam instead of carrybun way practiced by Pas. PAS. > Religion> all, every solution is praying. Madani> Rakyat must work hard to achieve success.
If non is too idealists, we'll have Sheraton move 2.0. Nons have been teaching PH 1 0 lessons with by elections, end up Bersatu leaving the sinking ships and do a Sheraton move 1.0
not idealist, realistic. Like, why KK Mart allowed to happen and zero control to rein in the extremists? Have you read what they saying in fb and tik tok? Even ZUS buta2 kena just because owners are cina https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/5458276
Solution is so easy, just drag some of those crazies in, spend a day or 2 in lokap for questioning, and the rest would get the message don't go full retard. Why didn't madani govt do it?
Yeah , my point still stand. Madani will fall playing a game that umno been playing for 60 years. And macai like u blaming PN as a coping mechanism that ur chosen leaders are actually useless.
Lol macai. Instead of focusing on stuff to unite the damn nation. Lets keep division go on as if it will do any difference.
Plus theres no such thing as extremists here when it come to politics. Only shit u keep telling urself because dap failed to hard even when given 2nd chance to prove themselves in the gov.
Yeah , my point still stand. Madani will fall playing a game that umno been playing for 60 years. And macai like u blaming PN as a coping mechanism that ur chosen leaders are actually useless.
Since you've established that PAS is perpetually growing, here's something that's worthwhile to be pondered first and foremost.
WHY do people turn to religion as time goes on?
IMO it could be a few things: 1. Facing insurmountable obstacles (for coping) Pretty relevant, especially in modern time where people can work but still be in 'relative' poverty. Life used to be simpler, and simpler means harder for people to feel hopeless. Why else would suicide rate goes hand-in-hand with a nation's progress as it becomes more developed?
2. Pursuing a sense of community, solidarity, togetherness, strength. Modern, urban living promotes isolationism (just earn enough money, anything else can be solved if you have enough, no need to befriend your neighbors in case of emergency, no need to know your farmers, fishermen, butchers for your daily needs no need to know your plumbers, electricians, carpenters.) We're still social animals in the end.
3. Return to form Religion used to play a major part in society right up until the modern era. As we now face signs of societal decay, some go back to what has arguably worked previously.
4. Finding purpose & meaning Religions tell people of life's meaning and purpose. In end-stage capitalist era where people are mostly in perpetual rat race, people look for alternative to such lifestyle.
5. Prophetic fulfillment Niche, but some religion (I only know of abrahamic ones) foretold of end of times. No comments here, differ from one religion to another.
Here's a take on Nietzsche's God is Dead
Transcript at 6:17 onwards: Nietzsche recognized the value of religion as a 'social cement' and moral compass. Even though he was critical of it, he also feared what would happen if Christianity in the West would fade. Why? Because according to him, the West (and the rest of humanity, for that matter) lacks an adequate replacement for religion, something strong and robust enough to fill the and existential vacuum that'd emerge from it.
tl:DR People turn to religion to solve an underlying problem. Solve those problems (1-4, 5 would be difficult) and people wouldn't be turning to PAS who tunggang religion for answers. Instead Anwar opted prove he's the better jockey, so that's where we are today.
To be fair you can see a trend around the world that a number of society are turning conservatives and re-embracing traditional values, which I'd wager for the exact same reason for 1-4. Even part of China youth falls under such category.
Since you've established that PAS is perpetually growing, here's something that's worthwhile to be pondered first and foremost.
WHY do people turn to religion as time goes on?
IMO it could be a few things: 1. Facing insurmountable obstacles (for coping) Pretty relevant, especially in modern time where people can work but still be in 'relative' poverty. Life used to be simpler, and simpler means harder for people to feel hopeless. Why else would suicide rate goes hand-in-hand with a nation's progress as it becomes more developed?
2. Pursuing a sense of community, solidarity, togetherness, strength. Modern, urban living promotes isolationism (just earn enough money, anything else can be solved if you have enough, no need to befriend your neighbors in case of emergency, no need to know your farmers, fishermen, butchers for your daily needs no need to know your plumbers, electricians, carpenters.) We're still social animals in the end.
3. Return to form Religion used to play a major part in society right up until the modern era. As we now face signs of societal decay, some go back to what has arguably worked previously.
4. Finding purpose & meaning Religions tell people of life's meaning and purpose. In end-stage capitalist era where people are mostly in perpetual rat race, people look for alternative to such lifestyle.
5. Prophetic fulfillment Niche, but some religion (I only know of abrahamic ones) foretold of end of times. No comments here, differ from one religion to another.
Here's a take on Nietzsche's God is Dead
Transcript at 6:17 onwards: Nietzsche recognized the value of religion as a 'social cement' and moral compass. Even though he was critical of it, he also feared what would happen if Christianity in the West would fade. Why? Because according to him, the West (and the rest of humanity, for that matter) lacks an adequate replacement for religion, something strong and robust enough to fill the and existential vacuum that'd emerge from it.
tl:DR People turn to religion to solve an underlying problem. Solve those problems (1-4, 5 would be difficult) and people wouldn't be turning to PAS who tunggang religion for answers. Instead Anwar opted prove he's the better jockey, so that's where we are today.
To be fair you can see a trend around the world that a number of society are turning conservatives and re-embracing traditional values, which I'd wager for the exact same reason for 1-4. Even part of China youth falls under such category.
Oledi said in my opening post ma...
QUOTE
Scale down on the conservatism, separate religion from government, improve our education so that people learns religion is not everything, improve the economy, make more jobs, more jobs n better economy makes rakyat happier and less prone to seek religion to console themselves, go hardline approach and arrest & jail the racial and religious instigators, no matter T20, member of parliament, malays or non malays.
GagalLand and mrg220t pancut awal after KKB by election. Topkek!
QUOTE(GagalLand @ May 12 2024, 07:42 PM)
Yes
3 Malay voting districts in KBB had swung back to PH/BN
The ice has melted, thanks to DSAI
Avalanche is in the making for GE16
QUOTE(mrg220t @ May 12 2024, 09:50 PM)
The copium is astounding lmao. UMNO helping to take back 6 out of 8 Malay PDMs that PN won last elections, Civil servants swinging back to PH, majority % higher than last election.
Still wanna talk like PN won lmaoooooo. It is a huge huge huge failure for PN this PRK la, you can even tell it from how Bersatu Selangor reacted during their press conference last night.
This post has been edited by COOLPINK: Jul 8 2024, 12:05 AM
Yeah, just expanding the discussion. People who are anti-religion likes to dismiss things straight, just pointing out that people do not seek religion for no reason. The focus is here is to find out which is the main pain point, because different demographics have different priority (e.g. chinese may think economy is most important, malay may rate self-fulfillment & community value higher, etc.)
However if people pursue it because of point 5, then you don't really have much choice tbh.
More Pas than Pas 404. Madani just showing progressive Islam instead of carrybun way practiced by Pas. PAS. > Religion> all, every solution is praying. Madani> Rakyat must work hard to achieve success.
If non is too idealists, we'll have Sheraton move 2.0. Nons have been teaching PH 1 0 lessons with by elections, end up Bersatu leaving the sinking ships and do a Sheraton move 1.0
Yeah, just expanding the discussion. People who are anti-religion likes to dismiss things straight, just pointing out that people do not seek religion for no reason. The focus is here is to find out which is the main pain point, because different demographics have different priority (e.g. chinese may think economy is most important, malay may rate self-fulfillment & community value higher, etc.)
However if people pursue it because of point 5, then you don't really have much choice tbh.
True that. Anyways, I believe the malay muslim increasing conservatism was by design not chance.
Why is that so? I came from the 80's and malay muslims then were pretty chill and more concerned with putting in a hard day's work rather than looking for things to be triggered at. Things started to slowly change in the early 90's when the islamization by mahathir and anwar (yes anwar) started to take effect. Compounded by our economy not growing as much as it should since the 97 crisis.
Now before pnpas macais start mocking at why we still vote anwar, bear in mind he has changed his tone since reformasi days to "kita semua anak malaysia" instead of his fiery ABIM stuff. If its all a giant bullshit then so be it, not as if nons will vote Hadi lmao. So yeah, it still comes back to him now, if anwar still thinks pandering to extremism works, then he's just handing GE16 to pnpas on a silver platter
This post has been edited by bigwolf: Jul 8 2024, 12:17 AM
True that. Anyways, I believe the malay muslim increasing conservatism was by design not chance.
Why is that so? I came from the 80's and malay muslims then were pretty chill and more concerned with putting in a hard day's work rather than looking for things to be triggered at. Things started to slowly change in the early 90's when the islamization by mahathir and anwar (yes anwar) started to take effect.
Now before pnpas macais start mocking at why we still vote anwar, bear in mind he has changed his tone since reformasi days to "kita semua anak malaysia" instead of his fiery ABIM stuff. If its all a giant bullshit then so be it, not as if nons will vote Hadi lmao. So yeah, it still comes back to him now, if anwar still thinks pandering to extremism works, then he's just handing GE16 to pnpas on a silver platter
You would be right. To effectively counter extremism he should be pandering to moderation by looking east towards S&S to secure their support.
Pandering to extremism will only push those 2 states further away from him as well as the moderates in peninsula.
This post has been edited by COOLPINK: Jul 8 2024, 12:23 AM
True that. Anyways, I believe the malay muslim increasing conservatism was by design not chance.
Why is that so? I came from the 80's and malay muslims then were pretty chill and more concerned with putting in a hard day's work rather than looking for things to be triggered at. Things started to slowly change in the early 90's when the islamization by mahathir and anwar (yes anwar) started to take effect.
Now before pnpas macais start mocking at why we still vote anwar, bear in mind he has changed his tone since reformasi days to "kita semua anak malaysia" instead of his fiery ABIM stuff. If its all a giant bullshit then so be it, not as if nons will vote Hadi lmao. So yeah, it still comes back to him now, if anwar still thinks pandering to extremism works, then he's just handing GE16 to pnpas on a silver platter
Although I'm younger than that, I'd like to clarify that what you call islamization back then is what I'd say correction/re-adjustments to the faith teachings. Practice of Islam back then was heavily intermingled with practices that's heavily focused on malay culture (which as we all know was also heavily influenced by other faith like hinduism & buddhism from Srivijaya time and what not). The islamization was more towards re-examining the faith moving towards the proper one as per the teachings and cutting off the malay-cultured-but-opposing-islam part.
PAS's 'if you don't vote for us you're going to hell' & 'vote us to enter heaven' is still bullshit though. Else they'd have gained so much more traction in the 90s instead of being a fringe party since their PMIP days during Tunku Abdul Rahman time. Apparently they once even made a solat hajat group prayer event to wish for Mahathir's immediate death kek.
sos: my late grandfather who went to British School but is also a pious person who studied & taught religion to kampung folks.
EDIT: Also people need to ask this, if PAS is really the champion of the faith, why did islamization need to come from UMNO folks like Anwar?
This post has been edited by keybearer: Jul 8 2024, 12:36 AM
Although I'm younger than that, I'd like to clarify that what you call islamization back then is what I'd say correction/re-adjustments to the faith teachings. Practice of Islam back then was heavily intermingled with practices that's heavily focused on malay culture (which as we all know was also heavily influenced by other faith like hinduism & buddhism from Srivijaya time and what not). The islamization was more towards re-examining the faith moving towards the proper one as per the teachings and cutting off the malay-cultured-but-opposing-islam part.
PAS's 'if you don't vote for us you're going to hell' & 'vote us to enter heaven' is still bullshit though. Else they'd have gained so much more traction in the 90s instead of being a fringe party since their PMIP days during Tunku Abdul Rahman time. Apparently they once even made a solat hajat group prayer event to wish for Mahathir's immediate death kek.
sos: my late grandfather who went to British School but is also a pious person who studied & taught religion to kampung folks.
EDIT: Also people need to ask this, if PAS is really the champion of the faith, why did islamization need to come from UMNO folks like Anwar?
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Estimates of Saudi spending on religious causes abroad include "upward of $100 billion";[272] $2–3 billion per year since 1975 (compared to the annual Soviet propaganda budget of $1 billion/year);[273] and "at least $87 billion" from 1987 to 2007.[274] Reliability of these rough estimates have been disputed due to their inconsistencies and lack of a scientific methodology for precise quantification.[275]
Its largesse funded an estimated "90% of the expenses of the entire faith", throughout the Muslim world, according to journalist Dawood al-Shirian.[276] It extended to young and old, from children's madrasas to high-level scholarship.[277] "Books, scholarships, fellowships, mosques" (for example, "more than 1,500 mosques were built from Saudi public funds over the last 50 years") were paid for.[278] It rewarded journalists and academics, who followed it and built satellite campuses around Egypt for Al Azhar, the oldest and most influential Islamic university.[279] Yahya Birt counts spending on "1,500 mosques, 210 Islamic centres and dozens of Muslim academies and schools".[273][280] Apart from state patronage, a major source of proselytization has been the private charities and religious activities of Muslim individuals and organizations.[281]
This financial aid has done much to overwhelm less strict local interpretations of Islam, according to observers like Dawood al-Shirian and Lee Kuan Yew,[276] arguing that it caused the Saudi interpretation (sometimes called "petro-Islam"[282]) to be perceived as the correct interpretation – or the "gold standard" of Islam – in many Muslims' minds.[283][284]
Peter Mandaville asserts that the commonly reported data estimates regarding Saudi religious funding are unreliable due to the sources being "internally inconsistent" and based on "non-specific hearsay". According to Mandaville, the wide-ranging and controversial usage of the term "Wahhabism" has rendered researching Saudi religious transnationalism and assessing its actual magnitude even more confusing. Moreover, the post-Cold War era governments had commonly used the label "Wahhabism" to designate a wide swathe of religious sects, including those which were doctrinally at odds with Wahhabism.[275]
This impacted Malaysia culminating in the Memali incident. BN that time (curse be their stupidity) saw or thought moderation was not working and they were slowly losing rural grounds to PAS and islamic hardliners. Hence they thought to counter PAS by trying to appease these hardliners by pandering to them. And the rest, as they say, is history