Recently, I have received job offer from both Intel and small local IC design companies. Going to graduate this year.

Both of the company are based in Penang. However, Intel offered only 4k for their Graduate Trainee (GT) program as opposed to small startup company which offered almost 5.5k-6k.

Intel offered basic benefit like AIA insurance but there is no other benefits (like optical, dental...) while the small company does include almost everything, even provide petrol allowance.

I would like to have some opinion from you guys which one is better choice? The small company even have 1-2 month salary as bonus, and annual bonus ranging of 10%+ as well. It may sound like going for small company is the better choice, but Intel is a pretty nice place to work at with work life balance (from my internship experience). The small company customer is mostly based in China, so...

Still young and willing to learn more, I have concerns with small company their income source is mostly concentrated on one or two customers. Intel you can convert to permanent position after 1-2 years with all the benefits (optical/dental ,car loan subsidy,QPB/APB, etc...), but I have seniors that worked in small company that has much more experience than their peers, mainly because you get to work almost the wider design flow instead of concentrating on one small part.

Also noticed the small company had much harder interview and more rounds as well, compared to Intel. They were brutal when it comes to technical details.

Would it be a wiser choice to join the small company as a fresh graduate? All Sifu welcome to give their opinion

This post has been edited by melondance: Jun 17 2024, 01:27 PM

MNC if you are resourceful (outstanding) and put 110% effort, then potential growth is there. But if you are introvert, then slowly grow lor.

Small company maybe you hit jackpot like Nvidia leh 😂🤣😅
Small company do everything (possibility is very high) but learn a lot.

Just a question, why a small company can pay more and give more than an MNC.

I have no idea why they can pay so much, they poached a whole bunch of ex-Intel, Synopsys, MediaTek, Cadence people as well. Supposedly from the LinkedIn profile, they used to hold a good position in MNC (Staff Engineers, Senior Manager, Director...) So I guess they have a pretty good pay across grades.

FYI, the Intel GT program has paid like RM4k since 2020 or 2022? In 2020, I believe GT were paid RM4k if you have first class. But now regardless of first class or not, they pay RM4k eitherway. This GT position has almost no benefit, and I need to rent in penang.

This post has been edited by melondance: Jun 17 2024, 01:51 PM

See how ambitious you are.


big then go small 1st. ( learn from startup to be next startup )

small then go park at MNC.

Currently I have gotten both offers around the same time, and can only choose one. I have intern with Intel since 2022. So total is 1 year of service there already. Only learnt a little but enough to get going for work, not expert la..

This post has been edited by melondance: Jun 17 2024, 02:11 PM

There are too many variables about the "small company". Intel is a safe choice, unless you did your own research and think that the small company has greater potential.

Intel also not safe nowadays...can kena retrench anytime

But if up to me I'll go to the small company assuming TS have done the research and it's legit (not some shady company producing chips for illegal gambling sites). Start with a higher base and easier to go higher next time cause Malaysia employer are cheap skates, they like to offer xx% from last drawn salary.

Ah ya, I mean safe in the context of getting opportunities to network and learn, but yea Intel has quite a few rounds of retrench recently... TS you need to really show that you are an asset if you work in Intel.

It is a legit company with people clocking in and out of the physical office that does IC design.

I’m concerned with the salary too, RM4k after rent, insurance and car maintenance, etc. there isn’t much left.

Actually, those that can complete all the work and the business unit has hiring slots, I think they will just hire you.

The reason it’s a hard choice for me is because… once you convert from GT to permanent in Intel, the benefits are pretty good. However, the salary in small IC design company can increase pretty good as well.

Perhaps I should work in small company for a few years, then go back to MNC like AMD/Intel/etc if I like them more?

But yeah, it’s 1-2 years in GT stuck with RM4k/month before you get converted, this is RM20k difference per year just looking at pay and bonus that you miss out as an GT.

I like Intel and how they work. But it worries me as a young graduate I don’t get to see the breadth of the workflow in Intel even though you get the master it. I’ll be happy in Intel with 4k salary, but I don’t wanna get too comfortable too.

Working at Intel you get peak season that require OT and extra work, but it’s not like everyday non-stop at small company.

This post has been edited by melondance: Jun 18 2024, 10:50 PM

MNC is great for those who specialise in climbing corporate ladder, may not need to be a master but a jack of all trades especially rubbing shoulder with bosses.. if you are a social butterfly, it makes perfect sense.

Which Startup? Effenix? SkyeChip? In either case they're all damn good places to learn. Majority of their staff comprise of ex-Intel folks, so you can learn the same stuff from them as you could from Intel. Obviously Intel being a larger MNC is a more structured work environment. But that structure also means there's hella lot of bureaucracy

If it were any of these 3 companies, I'd go for the 'small' company, because they're not exactly small.

But once you get converted into a permanent role at Intel, you get RSU and benefits when in total is better than small company?

Not true. You dont get RSU until you are grade 6. Other benefits (WiFi subsidy, meal subsidy, toll & mileage subsidy, car interest subsid etc) are miniscule compared to the higher salary that you would receive at other companies. You would be surprised to know that Intel currently has the lowest salary range for most grades among IC design companies in Penang. AMD / Lattice / Skyechip / Oppstar / Efinix / Synapse easily offer 20-30% some even 50% more pay for the same grade as They are all actively poaching from Intel.

Just do some basic math. You get 5.5k starting vs 4k starting. Are all those subsidies and benefit worth the extra RM1.5k monthly?

From a pure monetary perspective, go for smaller company.

In terms of learning and growth, I would say Intel is actually better for fresh grad just because you have access to more resources (Tons of training material, access to all 3 EDA big boys' tools Synopsys, Cadence and Siemens) and a lot of seniors to help you or network with. However, it will be up to you to make use of those resources yourself as within your team, you are likely to be more constrained within one domain / limited exposure to the entire workflow as you say. But that doesnt mean you can't explore the other domains. It would be something that you need to talk to your manager or plan your own time to learn from those resources I mention. If you have your own initiative, you can definitely explore or learn other domains at intel without pressure whereas at small company yes you may work on a broader spectrum of IC design workflow but that will also be part of your deliverables / commitment that needs to meet timeline.

Intel has a pretty relaxed culture from what I have heard from the seniors when you compared to other small company. Do you think that is true?

I see my university senior working as GT in Intel always having time to play during working days, perhaps due to Hybrid mode.

Wonder if it would be good to be exposed to higher stress environment then if I do get back into Intel in the future, which I may since I really do like the company, be beneficial since I have adapted to faster pace?

You’re right that Intel system you can access to any tools from the 3 big EDA company, but it really depends if your department is using them… I don’t see most people even tinker with anything outside their work

This post has been edited by melondance: Jun 21 2024, 12:16 PM

I would say its different from one team to another. Some teams at Intel are high stress as well. Just that GTs are usually more shielded in the sense you are not officially accountable for project deliverables yet.

And yes another advantage of Intel is very flexible working arrangements / hybrid mode. But again this differs from one team/department to another. Some teams only go to office once a week (And goes back home right after lunch because their team meetings are in the morning). Some need to go 3 days a week.

Again as I have said, its your own initiative to learn. Just because your team or your task doesnt use it doesnt mean you cant learn

I cant say for sure whether joining Intel is better or joining small local company is better. The things I mentioned like hybrid mode or work arrangments if important to you, you may want to check with your hiring manager what is the expectation. But as a fresh grad I highly recommend going to the office.

If Intel 1 year, no convert, how nice your team is, also no point they unable to convert you as Perm-BB.

If you gotten offered from Altera/PSG. Better stay away, as already news broke Altera/PSG is going standalone.

Another problem is Intel, you might be working in your bubble too often.
Don't really deal with other teams much unless you are needed to. Eventually you get too comfortable with your job and can't really progress.

If you like me, think already hit rock bottom in terms of learning. I think better you avoid this company.

Also you might need to try to understand what type of Jobs are there in VLSI. Can be verification, pre-Si, post-Si, RTL, Layout, Physical Design, Place and Route, Analog IC Design, Digital IC design, IC Standard Cell library, Board Design, Electrical Validation, etc...


GT (1 year - 2021) - RM 4k
Grade 3 (2 years -2022/23)- GT + 6%
Grade 5 (3 months)- RM 5.2k


Anyhow, see what team you are in, some are good, some are bad, some are really under pressured until you can mentally cracked at times.

Ayam Intel Grade 5 too. Got offers from A, L and O recently for Design Engineer 2 (Grade 5 equivalent). All over 7k. Intel fucking underpaying. If not for the fact I live in Alor Setar and only need to go office once every week or even once every two weeks, I would have jumped lel

wahhh, so many offers.
Well, same as me. I only wanted WFH. So I don't need to go travel to and flo to work, Never knew Penang traffic so horrible like KL. Sibeh tiring stuck in a jam just to travel 8-10km of straight road.

My current office at PG15 which makes it travelling without a car so non-ideal.
If get office in PG 7/8/12/17 I would rather jump offices.

This post has been edited by iSean: Jun 21 2024, 10:41 PM

tahniah sudah naik pangkat G5.

wow. let me guess.

AMD
Lattice
Oppstar

all offer so high >7k for G5 equivalent 🤔 fantasy1989 true or not?

as to your original question. currently Intel is not in a good financial position. they are focusing more to get their foundry business going, so a lot money to spend. since you are on the design FE side, should join fabless IC design company as they has higher profit margin and hence can offer higher salary.

yes, in a startup you get to learn a lot more. in MNC like Intel, you tend to be confined to your small domain of work only. if want to explore, need to show yourself to manager and volunteer but this depends. for person that need to be pushed, then join startup better as you get to explore more stuff as your deliverables ie you are forced to learn more than volunteer to do so.

regarding wfh or office. no comment. up to individuals.

This post has been edited by ipohps3: Jun 21 2024, 11:00 PM

Thanks! Hope I get the enthusiasm to keep up and promoted or lompat to better company

You go with what till tiring. Me everyday 10-15 minutes only for 10km.

should lompat liao. around 3 years can jump to get higher increment.

Drive - last time always 6am leave condo - stuck in Relau/Sg Ara - Lim Chong Eu or
Pantai Hospital - Jalan Tengah - Airport route highway for 45 mins.

Just to be in PG15 office before crowd come lo.

Then 4.30pm early cabut. Otherwise another nightmare jam again.
Again I don't like driving, it is quite stressful for me to be on the road. Penang motorcycles also...


Otherwise, nowadays, I sit on Intel's Home Shuttle, 6.30am head down, feed mosquito in open air for 15-30 minutes, shuttle pick up others around 20-30 mins. Then be in PG12 at 7.30am, quick settle breakfast in new cafe, then catch 8am Shuttle PG12 to PG16, clock in at 8.20am-ish, walk back to my cube edi 8.30am.

Then to end of the day, ride 3.30pm / 4pm back to PG12, wait until next shuttle 5pm comes or sit RapidPenang walk 20mins / Grab back to my condo at Relau. Then continue OT work to monitor simulation and collapse on bed...

And the tedious cycle repeats.

I just want jump to other companies to find someone willing to guide or teach under a proper mentorship to properly learn Analog/Digital IC Design.

Here everyday do flow related issues troubleshooting/debugging/reporting.
Not much in terms of actual Design Use or guidance.

Everyone's here an individual contributor only

KEK i daily ride motor back and forth. At most 20minutes only if really jam and only when go back home.

8.30am leave house. Go for breakfast. 9.00am++ reach bayan lepas FTZ

This post has been edited by kesvani: Jun 22 2024, 12:04 AM

I don't have a motor license.
and Penang Motorcycle Drivers really i kennot.

If company can offer more flexible working arrangement, and more easy peaceful ways to commute to work.
Surely will increase my affinity / morale to go work.

I guess digital will be easier. If analog, most of them are veterans, if not you either have masters.

Need to have strong fundamentals, like circuit theory, control system, etc.

Most of the time digital/analog design, they will be using back old RTL for digital and circuit topology for analog. Even the sizing for analog circuit have been set and sometimes you just adjust according to process node. For digital, you just make minor improvements to the RTL I guess? You don’t reinvent the wheel every generation of processors.

What do you current job scope? Interesting?

I don't have masters.

I gotten into Intel as G.T. as some weird title "Functional Validation Engineer" at an Electrical Validation team. Last time do Electrical Validation and System Margin Validation, everyday test 3-5 test chip, sweep code on software variables, Process (slow/fast chip), Voltage, Temperature., find recipe / optimized for biggest eye diagram, debug design, or find ways to improve workflow and productivity by reducing Test Report generation.

After 1 year, my contract ending, ask my connection from my Fabless IC Design colleague who jump into Intel, whether her team hiring.

I didn't really have strong fundamentals in Analog IC Design, I just jump in to help out testing new Methodology and Flows, and just work in running simple simulations for Digitals Blocks. I can recognized Op-Amps, Band Gaps reference circuits, but to design and optimize - abit not my cup of tea since everyone so busy and not really much guidance. So eventually just carry on this Analog title, doing other things.

Which sometimes I quite worry I'm in my comfort zone too long.

This post has been edited by iSean: Jun 22 2024, 11:12 AM

7k is the benchmark for design engineer 2 level outside of Intel. Of course it also depends on how you do during technical interview and how bold are you in selling yourself. One thing I realized is Malaysian interviewers are more cincai. AMD has 2 stage interviews, first stage from local team. 2nd stage from China team. This is because the AMD team in Penang reports to China team who leads the design of Ryzen's IO die and IPs. The Malaysian interviewer usually just ask what you do and ask you elaborate from there. China interviewer will tend to drill down on technical details more.

AMD still got design team in China? I thought since US vs China tech war, AMD should have gotten out from there? especially for design team. also this 7k is for those Master freshgrad or with prior experience?

This post has been edited by ipohps3: Jun 22 2024, 06:16 PM

in a startup, even new freshgrad got the chance to design ie code RTL from ground up, base on customer requirements. you learn a lot more. I believe those ground breaking IP design in Intel is still given priority to Israel or US design team. Intel Malaysia design team design team mainly doing SoC integration and validation.

hence joining those startups either local or China will be greatly beneficial. no such thing as make minor improvements to RTL.

This post has been edited by ipohps3: Jun 22 2024, 06:37 PM

@ipohps3

Yes AMD still have design team in China. Intel also still have design team in China. But obviously they don't handle critical compute IPs. China team is handling the Northbridge and Southbridge dies just like how Intel Malaysia handles the PCH die.

7k is with prior experience. The range of salaries between Intel and others in Penang are roughly as follows:

Intel GT - RM4k |Others fresh grad / design engineer 1 - RM5k - RM6k
Intel G3 - RM4.5k |Others fresh grad / design engineer 1 - RM5k - RM6k
Intel G5 - RM5k - RM6k |Others Design Engineer 2 - RM7k
Intel G6 - > RM7k ish |Others Sr Design Engineer - RM 8.5k - >9k ish

Note this is for Front End RTL Design / Verification work.

This post has been edited by Xflkekw: Jun 22 2024, 09:52 PM

Even startup in Malaysia don't do "ground breaking IP design". A lot of them are licensed from other IP vendors like Synopsys.

Our design ecosystem is still mainly focused on IOs related IP (Your PCIE, USB, SATA, Ethernet, JESD, Interlaken, FPGA fabric interconnect etc). That is Penang's expertise (Thanks to Intel). Even the design teams starting up at AMD and Lattice are focusing on IOs. You can even take a look at Skyechip's product, they dont actually design compute cores themselves. They are licensing Arm IPs for that.

Eh I would say Intel Malaysia does a lot more than just SoC integration and validation. We have IP design, verification, SoC design, integration and verification, Analog IPs, SoC structural design, Atom core design (very small team) and Atom core validation, Tools & Design Enablement & methodology team, compute tile structural design and firmware & software teams. There are probably more that I missed out and this is just for the Intel client product side not accounting for PSG / Altera teams.

In terms of RTL design workloads, I don't think your statement is entirely true. You can have the opportunity to make a lot of RTL changes or design some functionality from scratch too at Intel. Large IP teams like PCIE subsystem usually provide that opportunity. Even at other local /China startup you are mostly likely making design changes on IP licensed from other Vendors like Synopsys / Arm instead of designing it from the ground up yourself.

some companies has Engineer 3 role before Senior Engineer. not sure how that will affect the salary range.

This post has been edited by ipohps3: Jun 23 2024, 12:02 AM

WFH in the morning, till like 10am only go in lah. Traffic will be much better

You’re in Analog Design department but mostly doing mostly related issues troubleshooting/debugging/reporting?

funny enough yes.
My manager and I are the two people who typically "flush tools flows".

I feel like people who knows designs here all either very experienced, and somehow get exposure from other companies before joining. So far in here I only comfortable working with Digital Blocks that is built with Standard Cells.

Everyday here Imposter syndrome only.
I think need go outside find a sifu/top up with Masters in Microelectronics specialized in Analog Design hit a few walls then can start properly understand things work, otherwise everyday become Spice Monkey. Or blur case no idea what's happening with the design blocks.

Again my degree in EEE offered in my Uni was broad, and not depth. Sometimes wonder should I do a career pivot again...

how are you doing TS. did you join Intel? Intel been retrenching people past few months.

I did not join Intel. The workload in small company is alot more, but the learning you get to experience is a lot. And the bonus is nice too, can get 2-3 months.

i believe you joined SkyeChip based on your 1st post?