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 Hybrid vs EV Car, a transition ...

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TSauronthas
post May 17 2024, 05:18 PM, updated 3w ago

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Hi all

As fuel subsidies will be removed soon, there is tendency people will switch to non-petrol car... as EV car and infrastructure started a year plus and take years to mature ... what's your thought on hybrid cars like Honda, Toyota? Will you see a jump on sales on hybrid cars during this transition ?

Cheers
kmrdeva
post May 17 2024, 05:21 PM

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Maybe yes.
zero5177
post May 17 2024, 05:26 PM

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Hybrid or EV both also got battery inside which need to be replaced.

The petrol subsidy depends how much it affect you TBH, to me currently I spent <RM200 per month for 2 cars combined, if say once subsidy remove price doubled, I will be paying RM400 for the same distance covered, but is that enough to make me change my current drive to EV/Hybrid? I doubt so for now unless my petrol spent changed from RM500 to RM1000 then it is worth considering.

This post has been edited by zero5177: May 17 2024, 05:26 PM
Roadwarrior1337
post May 17 2024, 05:26 PM

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Yes prefer hybrid. Less bullshit
TSauronthas
post May 17 2024, 05:30 PM

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QUOTE(zero5177 @ May 17 2024, 05:26 PM)
Hybrid or EV both also got battery inside which need to be replaced.

The petrol subsidy depends how much it affect you TBH, to me currently I spent <RM200 per month for 2 cars combined, if say once subsidy remove price doubled, I will be paying RM400 for the same distance covered, but is that enough to make me change my current drive to EV/Hybrid? I doubt so for now unless my petrol spent changed from RM500 to RM1000 then it is worth considering.
*
You got the point, it depends on one's milage and fuel consumption.
I have a rather low milage per month. Cheers.
lj0000
post May 17 2024, 05:37 PM

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Prius using nimh battery that is safe and cheap
TSauronthas
post May 17 2024, 05:43 PM

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Japanese are smart , they know there will be a transition from petrol to electric cars, Thus they come our with this hybrid cars, heard now their sales of hybrid cars are as good as petrol cars . I think there will be a demand in hybrid car in local automotive market.
caviars
post May 18 2024, 08:03 AM

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Maybe. Last time some people convert their car to NGV when petrol price increase. I am not surprised if some people will move to hybrid without thinking much about anything else but fuel saving.
soul78
post May 18 2024, 08:10 AM

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The H city hybrids are a good practical buy if you want fuel saving without the worry of planning where to charge.
touristking
post May 18 2024, 10:52 AM

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QUOTE(Roadwarrior1337 @ May 17 2024, 10:26 AM)
Yes prefer hybrid. Less bullshit
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Then you have to worry about 2 things that may go wrong, the battery and the engines.




touristking
post May 18 2024, 10:54 AM

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For 2 cars family, get one ICE. The 2nd car can be an EV to go to office, shopping, pick up kids etc.

If only 1 car, Hybrid will make sense. But then you have to worry about 2 things that can go wrong...the battery and the engine.

From statistic, Hybrid is the most common to catch fire.





TSauronthas
post May 20 2024, 03:11 PM

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QUOTE(touristking @ May 18 2024, 10:52 AM)
Then you have to worry about 2 things that may go wrong, the battery and the engines.
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Likewise. Electric motor and battery for EV
zenix
post May 20 2024, 03:30 PM

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QUOTE(auronthas @ May 17 2024, 05:18 PM)
Hi all

As fuel subsidies will be removed soon, there is tendency people will switch to non-petrol car... as EV car and infrastructure started a year plus and take years to mature ... what's your thought on hybrid cars like Honda, Toyota?  Will you see a jump on sales on hybrid cars during this transition ? 

Cheers
*
there are 3 categories

HEV = hybrid EV = normal petrol engine + small ev engine + small battery pack, no more tax breaks for this category that's why HEV's are the most expensive and highest trim level of that car model, e.g. City e-hev, etc. it mainly runs on the petrol engine and the hybrid engine is mostly a gimmick used for pickup from start/stop traffic, extra power when overtaking, or using electric power in the morning to crawl out to the highway while your petrol engine warms up. you cannot charge the battery it is charged by collecting braking energy. think of it like the F1 KERS system only used for a boost laugh.gif

the future for this would be the reverse, meaning it is 100% using electric but the petrol engine will be used as an emergency fuel source of range extender.

PHEV = plug-in hybrid EV = similar to the above except it has a bigger battery pack and you can charge the battery, so basically it is a dual fuel vehicle. this for me would be ideal for the moment as you can safely try the EV lifestyle with a backup. usually the battery would only last 20-50kms but at higher speeds than HEV. you can charge it by braking kinetic energy or by plugging it in, this is why it is called a plug in hybrid.

EV = 100% EV = bigger battery, longer range but dependant on electric only. getting alot of tax breaks so cars are artificially cheaper to buy.

u can also consider conversion



touristking
post May 20 2024, 03:34 PM

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QUOTE(zenix @ May 20 2024, 08:30 AM)
there are 3 categories

HEV = hybrid EV = normal petrol engine + small ev engine + small battery pack, no more tax breaks for this category that's why HEV's are the most expensive and highest trim level of that car model, e.g. City e-hev, etc. it mainly runs on the petrol engine and the hybrid engine is mostly a gimmick used for pickup from start/stop traffic, extra power when overtaking, or using electric power in the morning to crawl out to the highway while your petrol engine warms up. you cannot charge the battery it is charged by collecting braking energy. think of it like the F1 KERS system only used for a boost  laugh.gif

*
I was shocked when I found out the battery in a Hybrid Camry can only run, on battery power, for ~2 or 3 km.


zenix
post May 20 2024, 03:40 PM

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QUOTE(touristking @ May 20 2024, 03:34 PM)
I was shocked when I found out the battery in a Hybrid Camry can only run, on battery power, for ~2 or 3 km.
*
because it is a gimmick imho laugh.gif
for my prius i usually let it run in 'silent mode' or 'ev mode' until out of the car park
coz need to really crawl else the engine will kick in
i usually want to let the fuel pumps start working for a bit before engaging the petrol engine
EnergyAnalyst
post May 21 2024, 09:52 AM

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QUOTE(auronthas @ May 17 2024, 05:18 PM)
Hi all

As fuel subsidies will be removed soon, there is tendency people will switch to non-petrol car... as EV car and infrastructure started a year plus and take years to mature ... what's your thought on hybrid cars like Honda, Toyota?  Will you see a jump on sales on hybrid cars during this transition ? 

Cheers
*
When EV is merely a 1.3% of Malaysia car market share, do we really have insufficient Charging infrastructure issues?

https://www.wapcar.my/news/bevs-market-shar...s-removed-79382

So far, living in KL and travelling daily , I only seen once a Tesla need to wait for a charging spot, while most non Tesla charging spot are empty 99.9% of the time

As far as Toyota hybrid and Honda are concerned, let us put these arguments in perspective

When petrol price jumped in Thailand or Indonesia, did we see a big jump In hybrid sales there?

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1282933...ctric-vehicles/

I don't see a significant increase, from 2022 to 2023, do you?

Meanwhile, BKK Auto show tell u , what to expect....

https://www.nationthailand.com/business/automobile/40037099

The reason is simple : Thailand government gives no subsidy for hybrid.

Unless Malaysian government change stands and gives incentives for hybrids , I don't see any stimulus for hybrid sales from petrol price jump . alone.

FYI, Malaysia government did incentives hybrid once... But no more

https://www.aseanbriefing.com/news/electric...-manufacturers/

https://www.aseanbriefing.com/news/electric...-manufacturers/


And I don't think they will change the stand.

Now let's look at Indonesia

https://theinvestor.vn/indonesia-aims-at-th...year-d9876.html

Again you will only see incentives for BEV , sorry not hybrid.

Giving incentives create the difference and partially in certain cases, governments are not the culprit, sometimes it is automakers who refuse help...
E.g.


https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/genera...by-3-car-makers

QUOTE
Eco EV turned down by 3 car makers Toyota, Honda, Nissan


This post has been edited by EnergyAnalyst: May 21 2024, 09:58 AM
SportyHandling
post May 21 2024, 12:19 PM

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QUOTE(auronthas @ May 17 2024, 05:18 PM)
Hi all

As fuel subsidies will be removed soon, there is tendency people will switch to non-petrol car... as EV car and infrastructure started a year plus and take years to mature ... what's your thought on hybrid cars like Honda, Toyota?  Will you see a jump on sales on hybrid cars during this transition ? 

Cheers
*
If I'm not mistaken, the cheapest EV car is RM100k which is out of reach for low-income earners or some in the middle-income group. There are no EV cars in the range of RM40k-50k. Even though subsidies for petrol will be removed by the government soon, majority of people can't afford the cheapest EV, not to mention lack of infrastructure especially for people who often travel on long journey outstation trips.

Apart from hybrid, I believe smaller or low engine capacity turbo engine cars will be the focus as demand for 2.0 litre engine or higher be lesser. Apart from reducing subsidies for petrol, the government can also increase road tax for higher capacity engines if they wish to.

I don't know but I suspect people will put hybrid EV (HEV), 1.0, 1.2 or 1.5 litre NA turbos or small cc NAs ahead of full EVs in the event the transition to full EV is more rigorously implemented by the government, for example removing fuel subsidies, increasing road tax on high cc engines or even targeted subsidy for the middle and high-income group although I'm not sure how they can implement it. As some have mentioned here, to me the main disadvantages of full EV are the high price of entry for the masses especially low income group (minimum price RM100k for the cheapest EV car) and the lack of charging facility and cost of electricity charging. Full EV mostly appeal to people who stay in landed properties who have installed solar panel electricity to keep the overall electricity costs including cost of EV charging down. Frequent charging outside may not be economical, though I read some EV manufacturers provide free EV charging for the purchase of the EVs until a certain period, that I'm not sure. Also, as mentioned earlier on the disadvantage of full EV with frequent outstation long journey trips when charging facilities in small cities or towns are lacking, unlike petrol stations where you can find it everywhere.

For the next family car, I"m looking at the upcoming Nissan Kicks which is a HEV which may be useful when the cost of petrol jumps up after the subsidy is removed. Personally I don't think the government will remove a huge chunk of subsidy but do it in several small stages to not put a burden to the lower income group who will not be able to transition to full EV anytime too soon.

This post has been edited by SportyHandling: May 21 2024, 12:22 PM
SportyHandling
post May 21 2024, 12:27 PM

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QUOTE(zero5177 @ May 17 2024, 05:26 PM)

The petrol subsidy depends how much it affect you TBH, to me currently I spent <RM200 per month for 2 cars combined,
*


Petrol costs of less than RM200 for 2 cars combined per month, either you are working from home or your office is very near to your home. Although my workplace is quite near to my home, my petrol costs about RM200 a month for 1 vehicle which I consider to be rather low.

This post has been edited by SportyHandling: May 21 2024, 12:28 PM
TSauronthas
post May 21 2024, 12:35 PM

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QUOTE(SportyHandling @ May 21 2024, 12:19 PM)
If I'm not mistaken, the cheapest EV car is RM100k which is out of reach for low-income earners or some in the middle-income group. There are no EV cars in the range of RM40k-50k. Even though subsidies for petrol will be removed by the government soon, majority of people can't afford the cheapest EV, not to mention lack of infrastructure especially for people who often travel on long journey outstation trips.

Apart from hybrid, I believe smaller or low engine capacity turbo engine cars will be the focus as demand for 2.0 litre engine or higher be lesser. Apart from reducing subsidies for petrol, the government can also increase road tax for higher capacity engines if they wish to.

I don't know but I suspect people will put hybrid EV (HEV), 1.0, 1.2 or 1.5 litre NA turbos or small cc NAs ahead of full EVs in the event the transition to full EV is more rigorously implemented by the government, for example removing fuel subsidies, increasing road tax on high cc engines or even targeted subsidy for the middle and high-income group although I'm not sure how they can implement it. As some have mentioned here, to me the main disadvantages of full EV are the high price of entry for the masses especially low income group (minimum price RM100k for the cheapest EV car) and the lack of charging facility and cost of electricity charging. Full EV mostly appeal to people who stay in landed properties who have installed solar panel electricity to keep the overall electricity costs including cost of EV charging down. Frequent charging outside may not be economical, though I read some EV manufacturers provide free EV charging for the purchase of the EVs until a certain period, that I'm not sure. Also, as mentioned earlier on the disadvantage of full EV with frequent outstation long journey trips when charging facilities in small cities or towns are lacking, unlike petrol stations where you can find it everywhere.

For the next family car, I"m looking at the upcoming Nissan Kicks which is a HEV which may be useful when the cost of petrol jumps up after the subsidy is removed. Personally I don't think the government will remove a huge chunk of subsidy but do it in several small stages to not put a burden to the lower income group who will not be able to transition to full EV anytime too soon.
*
Well, I don't think lower income group will be much affected but fuel subsidies will be gradually removed by 2030 or 2050 Net Carbon Zero.

The most concern will be medium income group, only if one can get "affordable" RM70k to RM80k EV or hybrid car during the transition period.
constant_weight
post May 21 2024, 01:37 PM

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QUOTE(zenix @ May 20 2024, 03:40 PM)
because it is a gimmick imho  laugh.gif
for my prius i usually let it run in 'silent mode' or 'ev mode' until out of the car park
coz need to really crawl else the engine will kick in
i usually want to let the fuel pumps start working for a bit before engaging the petrol engine
*
For Japanese culture of "do not cause disturbance/inconvenience to others", this was not gimmick.

Their use case would be last mile into neighborhood after work late (actually social drink late), they don't want any noise to the neighbor.

But with current younger generation generally do not own a car in major cities, and rebel against the after work social activity, yea.... it is kinda gimmicky now...



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