Excellent analysis, no wonder everyone is rushing to put up these oil palm scheme. Better you go and buy big plantation companies at least you will not overpay for assets.

For me I rather get it at the source... for gold I buy gold mining company (New Crest), oil palm, plantation companies (Various) and oil, oil drilling companies (Exxon), property, REITs. At least I get a piece of the asset, with full declaration and no fleecing like all these get rich scheme...

This post has been edited by gark: Jan 31 2013, 10:46 AM

No wor... officially this is called 'contract farming' but underneath in ponzi...(hidden)...

BTW any investment (even stocks!) that pays dividend > income will not last and will fall sooner or later...

This post has been edited by gark: Jan 31 2013, 11:11 AM

You don't own the land Mr lee does... you are paying Mr. Lee to 'contract farm' for you and split the earnings. You have no right to the assets, just Mr Lee.

Basically Mr. Lee sold you a call option (is a derivative right? ) on the future palm oil crop...

This post has been edited by gark: Jan 31 2013, 11:15 AM

Technically no, the palm does not belong to the grower, just the fruit... can go and collect your own fruit?

CON-sultants are paid a very very hefty fee for every plot sold, so all these money is to pay those consultants that enticed many of them sheeps into the hole...

But.. why is con-sultant fee paid out from the grower's fee?

This post has been edited by gark: Jan 31 2013, 11:24 AM

The amount of plot you bought? Look in the S&P.

How come CHGS never mention their Lahad Datu plantation, all the talking is on the Gua Musang Estate, even the Lahad Datu plantation is never mentioned for sale? What will happen to the plantation after termination?

The money is not paid yet as Bee garden still owes outstanding 80 mil in the accounts. (Will be used to re-pay grower slowly upon termination of scheme)

Let me get this straight... CHGS ask money from grower, then lend 80 mil to Bee Garden (related party) to buy Lahad Datu Plantation. . So the grower get what? And the loan is interest free!

But never mention at ALL in the valuation, earnings and termination of the scheme? Did the land in Lahad Datu disappear into the ocean.. or someone's pocket?

This post has been edited by gark: Feb 4 2013, 06:04 PM

Later they will say got disease/rat/monkey/ninja/alien come attack their palm oil.. and yield become 1/2....

This post has been edited by gark: Feb 7 2013, 12:19 PM

CHGS still have 80 mil deposit into Bee Garden's account and another 20+ mil in the trustee. Both these total up to 100 million which is more than sufficient to run a plantation. The highest cost to palm oil plantation maintenance is the first 5 years (seedling, land clearing, lots and lots of fertilizer), after 5 years the palm is cheaper to maintain with less regular fertilizer and the selling of the fruit is already more than sufficient to maintain (still zero cash flow). And at 7 year old, the palm no need much maintenance and will be cash flow positive.

But first please fire the incompetent plantation GM... who is probably working on LKY's side...

This post has been edited by gark: Feb 7 2013, 01:44 PM

8 years? The palm oil just ngam ngam reach full maturity and full production, then you give back to them?

Why not invest in a listed palm oil grower then, you can own a piece of the plantation with proven management, all for much cheaper per acre basis.

Do the maths and you will find out...

I wonder why so many fall for all these schemes... over and over and over again...

This post has been edited by gark: Sep 10 2013, 06:18 PM

And your grower scheme have no risk? What if fertilizer cost double? Minimum wages rise? Are you implying you can sell you ffb at above the industry price? What is your expected ffb yield and oer? What is your expected cost per ton ffb?

Dont forget sarawak plantations is on peat soil? Do you know the impact of that?

Companies dont pay out 100% of thier dividends is for a good reason, they GROW thier revenue and thus profits. If you have studied in more detail companies like klk and united plantations you can see how much they have grown? 1 acre equivalent bought 10 years ago now become 20 acres easily. Why only focus on dividend? Which sane bussinessmen will not grow thier company but will just milk it dry?

Also golden palm is selling 1 plot at rm 8k, 1 acre at 32k. You buy shares in good listed company, you can get rm 16k for a HECTARE. Dont believe me? Divide the market cap with some of the plantations total holding and see? Ofcourse some plantations are higher and some lower but so far NONE is as expensive as yours.

Not necessary, fertilizer is not only used for palm oil, but used for general crops, maybe less thn 10% is used for all palm oil plantations. The cost of fertilizer depends on price of rock phosphate (mined), MOP & urea (manufactured from natural gas). There is zero relation of fertilizer to palm oil ffb prices.

Of course, you are saying that your scheme is better than listed oil palm plantations, if all of you share the same COST of production and SAME selling price, how can your projected earning be more than listed plantations. Oh and most listed plantations run their own palm oil mill, but you have to sell yous to an independent mill (which will take a cut), wouldn't your margin be much lesser?

Nope the best soil to plant palm oil is alluvial soil (found in east sabah, south kalimantan and south sumatra) , peat soil is generally frown upon to plant palm oil. You get less yield per hectare, less OER per hectare so you will earn less because your cost per ton is higher. Also peat soil plantation are mostly not eligible for RPSO, and hence your fruit cannot demand a premium.

You are expecting 24ton per ha, but that is generally not able to be achieved on peat soil, look at Sarawak plantation & SOP, their yield per ha is generally less than 20 t/ha. If you look at plantation is south Sumatra & Kalimantan and also alluvial soil is perak area, you can generally achieve 23 to 25 t/ha.

Oh, you have not answered what is your expected OER rate?

Why only focus on dividends, yes the land value will go up in 20 years. But if you invest in listed plantation, the AMOUNT of land per SHARE also goes up, TOGETHER with the value of the land. Which one is a better growth story?

Investing in this share farming scheme does not give your ownership rights, you don't even OWN the land & the trees on your plot. Investing in a listed company you have rights and protection as shareholder. Here you only have promises.

So now you AGREE that you are selling over priced land to investor. Plantation land (cleared & planted) in Miri Sarawak generally goes for 30k-35k per hectare. Yet you are selling to investor at 8k per 1/4 acre or 32k per acre or 79k per hectare. Wow at this prices, why bother to buy at Sarawak? You can get same fully planted matured palm oil at Perak alluvial soil....

ARe you sure in the end your dividends are not robbing perter to pay paul with the massive overpricing?

But before they reap the money from selling the overpriced rights to the investors...

Yeah and Sabah palm oil is known to have very good yields due to favorable soil conditions... than is Sarawak.

If it is sooooooooooo good, why dont the seller take loan and wallap all the shares.

If it is sooooooooooo good, why don't big financial companies or other big plantation come jump into bandwagon?

In before they say wanna share the cake cause do charity...

This post has been edited by gark: Sep 11 2013, 10:52 AM

1. SPAC is created in mind with protection for investors, your planting schemes has no such protection nor actual ownership of assets or the company. A SPAC is obligated by law to return 90% of the money collected if the company cannot find a suitable investment within 3 years. Also any asset to be acquired requires voting by non-interested shareholder (ie minority shareholders). You actually own a piece of the business and any assets there. your grower scheme have zero protection and you do not own anything other than a promise, so there is absolutely ZERO comparison. Can the scheme GUARANTEE 90% back and give minority to vote on business direction? No.. then why are you comparing.



2. You are AGREEING that you are robbing peter to pay paul. Why do you have to return the investor money (the 45%) back to them and claim it is dividend? If you pay yourself out of your own pocket and assets is NOT called a dividend. You are clearly misleading your investors. Why not make it easier and sell the plots at 45% discount? why don't you tell me the lucrative 'cut' that each salesman takes as well, can consider part of capital? Also you still have not mentioned why a FULLY PLANTED MATURED palm oil land & listed pallm oil plantation is still CHEAPER than yours (even after 45% discount)?



Yeah I wait for the day IF it is legalized since your current scheme have zero protection as minority investor, ZERO equity, ZERO ownership & ZERO accountability. Even BNM warned against all these interest scheme.. why I wonder?



Oh.. now no need RSPO, so your planting will be indiscriminate and doesn't matter if you destroy the environment as long as you make a buck?

And your palm oil mill who owns it? Since you sell plots only?

Yes I have been wanting to hear what is your expected OER that you can achieve.. this way we can COUNT the projected earnings. Also you have not answer why your SCHEME is expected to get 24ton per ha yield while others can't?



Another misinformation, you can REALISE the land bank gain by SELLING your shares, why have to wait until the company sell their land? If their land appreciates, I am sure the share will do so accordingly. Also why bother to sell the land, when i can have the land producing for me indefinitely? If you have a golden goose laying golden eggs every month, will you sell it off after 20 years even if it can still lay eggs? Doesn't make sense to an investor...

Oh by the way don't tell me the tree getting old not productive anymore. Heard of replanting?

This post has been edited by gark: Sep 11 2013, 07:11 PM