eddytbd & wongmunkeong ... Thanks for your feedback & advise, I am learning ... another question, kindly help ..

Deceased appoint 2 executors - A & B (if this two person unable or unwilling to act) then will appoint C.
The will was sign by 2 witness.

There was no lawyer reading the Will to A, The grant of probate stated 2 person (A&B)

Person B acted alone without notify A, A suspect fraud in allocating ..

I would like to seek advise,
Has B commited fraud ? (in an event stated 50/50 for A & B, it was devided 100% to B)
If there is two name in the grant of probate, aren't supposed this two person have execute everything together? or either one can do.

(i try digest but really can't understand) kindly help what does below means ..
For the purpose of ascertaining entitlement under this Will any beneficiary who does not survive me by thirty days shall be treated as having died before me.

many thanks ...

"For the purpose of ascertaining entitlement under this Will any beneficiary who does not survive me by thirty days shall be treated as having died before me. "
The above is a clause one usually puts in one's Will to mean in layman terms:
If any of my beneficiaries DIE AFTER I DIE WITHIN 30 DAYS TIME is to be out of my Will (coz i treat them as DEAD BEFORE I DIED)

This is usually done to ensure that only my INTENDED beneficiaries OR their alternatives which i've stated in the Will, get what i want to give them, NOT THEIR beneficiaries.
eg.
I put my daughter and sister as beneficiaries 50% / 50%
+ that 30days survival clause
+ alternative to my sister is my mother (ie if my sister not around, 50% goes to mum)
Scenario 1: I die, everything goes smoothly to my daughter & sister
Scenario 2: I die AND my sister dies within 30 days of my death, my daughter & mum gets 50% 50%, NOT my sister's husband, kids, etc which is in her own Will.
Without that survival clause in my Will, 50% of my net worth will go to my sister then she kaputs and then her Will kicks in, moving her net worth (which is now +50% of my net worth) to her beneficiaries - chain of death/Wills thinggy

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As for the fraud thing - there's something weird with the data U provided.
U stated (i may have misunderstood yar, please correct me):
a. A & B = joint-executors
b. A & B also beneficiaries to get 50% 50% of deceased net worth
c. B sapu-ed 100%
er.. if the Will states item (a.) and (b.) above, A can go after B's butt leh.
Whether B committed fraud or not needs to be proved in the courts - mana tu Will? A tak de copy ke?

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Nov 25 2011, 06:47 AM

Very interesting, am learning.

Side note to all Public Mutual Gold customers:
U can do a Will and let it be held & executed by PB Trustee. Get your Agent to service U on this (oo.. sounds kinky )
Up front Cost: $0
Back load cost (ie. when kaput and Will executed): 1% for the 1st $1M & 0.5% for anything above $1M, with minimum of er.. a few $Ks (less than $10K if i recall correctly - any bro can help here?)

Personally i did it with PB Trustee even though i had a Will already drawn up with Executor being my sister, failing which my mother.

Reasoning: My sis aint a pro in this kinda thing and it takes effort and time + some kaka may happen, thus screwing up the process/speed.
Haiya - pay professionals to execute lar (ie. company, not a person), 1% + 0.5% is nothing in terms of % to move total net worth IMHO. The sum may look big but as a %, no biggie and it is the % left for my beneficiaries that i am focused on.

end of spiel

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Nov 25 2011, 08:48 AM

CIMB Trustees seems to be having 1 , anybody got any comment

Bro - in your previous posting U said it's cheap CIMB Trustee. Now U post asking for comments when U dont even share the cost U found out.
What gives ar?
Share too lar

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Nov 25 2011, 05:26 PM

wongmunkeong .. many thanks .. you make it easy for me to understand the Will law

What you mention above is correct about A & B.. they are joint executors..
Yes.. A got a copy of the Will.
A trusted B until a certain extent, B taking to long.. then A decided to obtain everything from B.
A decided to do some running & checking .. shares, deposits box, etc.. info/result obtained does not match Will.

Please correct me if im wrong, joint executor must have joint account right ?
everything should be devided accordingly into the joint account right ?

If A want to sue B, where to hire a lawyer ? or court will provide ?

Thanks again, your advice is very much appreciated

Blasto-san, IMHO, if the sum that A is to get is like >$200K, better look around for litigation lawyers well versed in estate law & investigations.

If A already has proof (last copy of Will, data on shares, deposit boxes, debts (remember minus debts ar), etc.) that B "swallowed" more than fair share, it should be a winnable case - just that if B is going to fight all out, it may go all the way up to the court of appeals, thus the "results" better be worth more than $100K+ (expected cost).

Er.. the sum of $100K+ is based on my own digging if i were to fight and destroy my ex for my daughter's custody in court, all the way up to the court of appeals. Sigh.. one sure as heck learns a lot during turbulent times
Thus, A's cost may vary a bit. If cost is an issue, perhaps nego with lawyer as a % of the estate lar - if the estate is huge.

As for the "joint executor must have joint account", i'm unsure - i've not died yet nor been an executor yet (appointed but appointor havent kaput yet) so far heheh

Side note:
If the deceased is a Muslim, all the above may be moot as the Faraid and stuff will overide whatever Wasiat placed. If i'm not mistaken, for a Muslim, a Wasiat is just one's wishes and CAN BE OVERRIDDEN by Faraid and other Muslim estate laws.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Nov 27 2011, 09:27 AM

wongmunkeong .. thanks for your advise ...

i hope below are my last questions ..

Is this cheating issue serious? What is it categorize/called in law terms? Is court case very long ?
If A win the case what's the punishment for B? prison? (how long?)
A win, B no money to pay? How?

No huge lah, ikan bilis amount. A is fighting for fairness & want to teach B a lesson. (why cheating on a dead person last wishes) something like that ...
Sorry for that, i am just guessing since two names in letter of probate, banks & shares company should release to two person, not only one person...

Many Thanks

Hey Blasto. Er.. heheh U "see me too high" leh - i'm no lawyer, just a bit read & experienced with Wills and Wasiats. Thus, i'm unsure how cheating of a Will is categorized but i'm dead sure it's at least similar to a breach of contract OR at worst a CBT.

Best to get a legal view on this - somewhere in LYN i think is a Legal topic OR there's a forum for legal Qs somewhere (M'sian legal) i've bumped into before. My bad - getting old, memory's not what it used to be

A win & B no $ to pay? Assets ada? Can garnish? If not, then A would do it out of pure justice only lor - thus, like i mentioned, negotiate / get a legal eagle to work for a % of $/assets that is recovered. Trust me - it aint a comfortable life with a legal eagle hounding one (if B claims no $ to pay). The only Q would be whether A can tahan all that "wasted time, effort and resources" to go after B's butt. There are other ways to make B's life hell... which cant see the light of day in a forum

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Nov 29 2011, 07:09 AM

Probably you talk to my friend Inderjit or email him at inderjit.singh@cimb.com for more details, I have checked for my parents and found pretty interesting of course I am still talking to him for better understanding of the rates and procedure

1. Assuming you wrote a will 20 years ago and in it, you list 2 reliable person as Executors. What if one of them passed away and you didn't change the original will so now you only have 1 Executor when you die.

2. Assuming both Executors are untrustworthy and decided to pocket some of your asset for themselves. Are there any authority/law etc to prevent that?

wongmunkeong ... thanks for your expertise, your info is very good.. A can go all-out anytime...
I saw the legal forum too..nanti my friend will refer, law lango very hard to understand...
she stress we lagi stress..
lastly thanks for all the info,

is Executor and Witness the same term here? Administrator is appointed legal firm am i right here? kinda confusing after reading all these info.
I was wondering if CIMB trustee , PB Trustee and OSK trustee were the same kind of institution who provide Will Writing Services and Execution?

hi all, after so many discussion, which company provide the best cost effective will writing service? thanks

1. EXECUTOR and WITNESS ARE NOT the same term

2. ADMINISTRATOR is similar to EXECUTOR.
ADMINISTRATOR = person in charge of the estate when someone dies without a Last Will and Testament, appointed by the deceased family's appointment
EXECUTOR = person whom the deceased named in the Will to take charge of the estate

3. Yes - CIMB Trustee, PB Trustee does Will Writing Services, Storage of Will, changes as required by owner of Will and Execution.
OSK i dunno

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Added on July 27, 2012, 8:56 am"Best" depends on one's want of a Will / Wasiat - ie. how detailed and complicated, and having a "testamentary trust" created or not.

Of the 4 i've checked out, my Will is currently with PB Trustee (note - i'm an Public Mutual "Gold" investor, thus it's "free" for me until i kaput and the Will is executed. Then costs will be deducted from my estate).

What works for me, may not work for U - U may have properties and assets all over the world OR U may have very very specific credit protection requirements.

Just a thought

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Added on July 27, 2012, 8:58 am1. Yup, left 1 to do the donkey work

2. Nope, no air-tight protection/prevention - thus an Executor MUST be someone U trust. Why the heck would one appoint someone or a company that is untrustworthy?
Generally, i think it's best to appoint someone or company that has MORE TO LOSE than your estate.
eg.
i can trust a super multi-millionaire with my estate execution of $1M coz he has more to lose if he screws around with my estate
i won't trust a beggar with my estate execution as he will be willing to risk it as he has much less to lose even if caught


This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jul 27 2012, 09:01 AM

I think so - Amanah Raya was the 1st trustee than Public Mutual worked with BEFORE they channelled it in-house to PB Trustee

this is more important.

have you guys decide your epf nominations?

btw, let me tell you some true facts. EPF doesnt give a damm bout your will. It follow only your EPF nomination list.

EPF will songlap everything easily if the father and mother died in the accident. how can a kid claim the money from EPF? im still clueless.

Mana ada people put minors as nominees wan? Unless they themselves blur lar heheh