I think there's something not too right with the above, i stand to be corrected

1. In a Will, ada "AT LEAST 2 appointed person to administer"?
I think it's called an "Executor" and perhaps, failing the 1st executor being around, MAYBE there's a 2nd

2. There can be 1 original and several copies of a Will.
Original is usually kept by the appointed Executor
Copies usually kept by "deceased" (write will thus must die?) and beneficiaries - beneficiaries should be informed of who to look for when "deceased" dies

The rest depends on how dodgy, sneaky and smart the Executor is VS the beneficiaries

i may be wrong though

BTW, other than a Will, it may be a good to list down ALL your assets, insurances, etc.,
how to access them
and how to use them to settle debts/live on forever or until beneficiaries' lives stabilizes (after one is gone), ESPECIALLY if the beneficiaries arent too savvy financially. Just a thought.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Nov 24 2011, 07:28 PM

What's their/CIMB Trustee's rate like?

"For the purpose of ascertaining entitlement under this Will any beneficiary who does not survive me by thirty days shall be treated as having died before me. "
The above is a clause one usually puts in one's Will to mean in layman terms:
If any of my beneficiaries DIE AFTER I DIE WITHIN 30 DAYS TIME is to be out of my Will (coz i treat them as DEAD BEFORE I DIED)

This is usually done to ensure that only my INTENDED beneficiaries OR their alternatives which i've stated in the Will, get what i want to give them, NOT THEIR beneficiaries.
eg.
I put my daughter and sister as beneficiaries 50% / 50%
+ that 30days survival clause
+ alternative to my sister is my mother (ie if my sister not around, 50% goes to mum)
Scenario 1: I die, everything goes smoothly to my daughter & sister
Scenario 2: I die AND my sister dies within 30 days of my death, my daughter & mum gets 50% 50%, NOT my sister's husband, kids, etc which is in her own Will.
Without that survival clause in my Will, 50% of my net worth will go to my sister then she kaputs and then her Will kicks in, moving her net worth (which is now +50% of my net worth) to her beneficiaries - chain of death/Wills thinggy

---
As for the fraud thing - there's something weird with the data U provided.
U stated (i may have misunderstood yar, please correct me):
a. A & B = joint-executors
b. A & B also beneficiaries to get 50% 50% of deceased net worth
c. B sapu-ed 100%
er.. if the Will states item (a.) and (b.) above, A can go after B's butt leh.
Whether B committed fraud or not needs to be proved in the courts - mana tu Will? A tak de copy ke?

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Nov 25 2011, 06:47 AM

Side note to all Public Mutual Gold customers:
U can do a Will and let it be held & executed by PB Trustee. Get your Agent to service U on this (oo.. sounds kinky )
Up front Cost: $0
Back load cost (ie. when kaput and Will executed): 1% for the 1st $1M & 0.5% for anything above $1M, with minimum of er.. a few $Ks (less than $10K if i recall correctly - any bro can help here?)

Personally i did it with PB Trustee even though i had a Will already drawn up with Executor being my sister, failing which my mother.

Reasoning: My sis aint a pro in this kinda thing and it takes effort and time + some kaka may happen, thus screwing up the process/speed.
Haiya - pay professionals to execute lar (ie. company, not a person), 1% + 0.5% is nothing in terms of % to move total net worth IMHO. The sum may look big but as a %, no biggie and it is the % left for my beneficiaries that i am focused on.

end of spiel

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Nov 25 2011, 08:48 AM

Bro - in your previous posting U said it's cheap CIMB Trustee. Now U post asking for comments when U dont even share the cost U found out.
What gives ar?
Share too lar

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Nov 25 2011, 05:26 PM

Blasto-san, IMHO, if the sum that A is to get is like >$200K, better look around for litigation lawyers well versed in estate law & investigations.

If A already has proof (last copy of Will, data on shares, deposit boxes, debts (remember minus debts ar), etc.) that B "swallowed" more than fair share, it should be a winnable case - just that if B is going to fight all out, it may go all the way up to the court of appeals, thus the "results" better be worth more than $100K+ (expected cost).

Er.. the sum of $100K+ is based on my own digging if i were to fight and destroy my ex for my daughter's custody in court, all the way up to the court of appeals. Sigh.. one sure as heck learns a lot during turbulent times
Thus, A's cost may vary a bit. If cost is an issue, perhaps nego with lawyer as a % of the estate lar - if the estate is huge.

As for the "joint executor must have joint account", i'm unsure - i've not died yet nor been an executor yet (appointed but appointor havent kaput yet) so far heheh

Side note:
If the deceased is a Muslim, all the above may be moot as the Faraid and stuff will overide whatever Wasiat placed. If i'm not mistaken, for a Muslim, a Wasiat is just one's wishes and CAN BE OVERRIDDEN by Faraid and other Muslim estate laws.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Nov 27 2011, 09:27 AM

Hey Blasto. Er.. heheh U "see me too high" leh - i'm no lawyer, just a bit read & experienced with Wills and Wasiats. Thus, i'm unsure how cheating of a Will is categorized but i'm dead sure it's at least similar to a breach of contract OR at worst a CBT.

Best to get a legal view on this - somewhere in LYN i think is a Legal topic OR there's a forum for legal Qs somewhere (M'sian legal) i've bumped into before. My bad - getting old, memory's not what it used to be

A win & B no $ to pay? Assets ada? Can garnish? If not, then A would do it out of pure justice only lor - thus, like i mentioned, negotiate / get a legal eagle to work for a % of $/assets that is recovered. Trust me - it aint a comfortable life with a legal eagle hounding one (if B claims no $ to pay). The only Q would be whether A can tahan all that "wasted time, effort and resources" to go after B's butt. There are other ways to make B's life hell... which cant see the light of day in a forum

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Nov 29 2011, 07:09 AM

1. EXECUTOR and WITNESS ARE NOT the same term

2. ADMINISTRATOR is similar to EXECUTOR.
ADMINISTRATOR = person in charge of the estate when someone dies without a Last Will and Testament, appointed by the deceased family's appointment
EXECUTOR = person whom the deceased named in the Will to take charge of the estate

3. Yes - CIMB Trustee, PB Trustee does Will Writing Services, Storage of Will, changes as required by owner of Will and Execution.
OSK i dunno

---

Added on July 27, 2012, 8:56 am"Best" depends on one's want of a Will / Wasiat - ie. how detailed and complicated, and having a "testamentary trust" created or not.

Of the 4 i've checked out, my Will is currently with PB Trustee (note - i'm an Public Mutual "Gold" investor, thus it's "free" for me until i kaput and the Will is executed. Then costs will be deducted from my estate).

What works for me, may not work for U - U may have properties and assets all over the world OR U may have very very specific credit protection requirements.

Just a thought

---

Added on July 27, 2012, 8:58 am1. Yup, left 1 to do the donkey work

2. Nope, no air-tight protection/prevention - thus an Executor MUST be someone U trust. Why the heck would one appoint someone or a company that is untrustworthy?
Generally, i think it's best to appoint someone or company that has MORE TO LOSE than your estate.
eg.
i can trust a super multi-millionaire with my estate execution of $1M coz he has more to lose if he screws around with my estate
i won't trust a beggar with my estate execution as he will be willing to risk it as he has much less to lose even if caught


This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jul 27 2012, 09:01 AM

I think so - Amanah Raya was the 1st trustee than Public Mutual worked with BEFORE they channelled it in-house to PB Trustee

Mana ada people put minors as nominees wan? Unless they themselves blur lar heheh

er.. grand parents' as nominee lor.
failing which, bestest friends that U can trust AND named as Guardians for minors if kaka happens.
Right boh? Really no options/choices meh? Tak kan no one that can be trusted?

The average IQ posting in this thread just went down 50% during your post bro
Serious a bit lar - this aint Kopitiam

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 1 2012, 08:42 PM

Bro - if U have NO ONE AT ALL that U can trust to be your kids' guardians, they'll be going to the orphanage.

Next Q (2).
a. One can setup a "testamentary trust" in one's Will
b. When one kicks the bucket, the Will will create a trust for the kids - to take care of their living costs and paid out to them lump sum upong xx age, etc. - all dependant on the words and criteria used in the testamentary trust

Next Q (3).
U heard of trustee but it cost more than writing a Will
I heard a car cost more than my dog
Bro - a Trustee is the person or organization that is managing your trust (see a type of trust in Q 2)
VS
a Will is the last wants / thoughts of someone and for Estate planning.
How is one going to compare ar?

OR U meant creating a Trust cost more than creating a Will?
If U meant this, yes of course.
A Trust is managed and executed by a Trustee for umpteenth months (well, usually), say for the years until one's kids attain the age of majority
VS
a Will which is just executed and then case closed.

a. Yes - contingencies.
it's like:
I gift all 50% of my assets to my mother, 50% to my sister

In the even that my mother does not survive me for 120 days, her portion is to go to my niece blah blah
In the event that my niece does not blahah,. her portion is to go to UNICEF

In the vent that my sister blah blha... etc etc

I do this with my daughter's guardianship too.


b. Yup.
However, please note that certain "nominations" are BS nominations - ie. not recognized by Family Law or Syariah.
eg. "nomination" for all royalties / commissions from Company ABC.
Thus, i think it's best to state each and every income stream and asset in one's Asset List which is to be updated and attached to the Will.

huh? Bro, i did move to PB Trustee leh.
Which part of my previous post did i state i chose my Sis instead of PB Trustee?
I think your speed reading skills gotta go bit slower until perfected

snipped from previous post.
Personally i did it with PB Trustee even though i had a Will already drawn up with Executor being my sister, failing which my mother.

Reasoning: My sis aint a pro in this kinda thing and it takes effort and time + some kaka may happen, thus screwing up the process/speed.
Haiya - pay professionals to execute lar (ie. company, not a person), 1% + 0.5% is nothing in terms of % to move total net worth IMHO. The sum may look big but as a %, no biggie and it is the % left for my beneficiaries that i am focused on.

Bro - the word "even though"
sigh.. never mind, my bad
Bye!

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 2 2012, 11:37 AM

huh? I thought one of them were Franchise-style (Rock)? MLM nowadays meh?

Not only rich mar. Responsible people leave a Will

Yup DIY cheaper then as your net worth grows, U may want to do it professionally and STORED safely + EXECUTED professionally too.
Unless U have an Executor U trust AND who knows the ins/outs of what to do at the courts, banks, investment houses, etc. that affects the speed of access by the beneficiaries.
Not easy being an Executor leh.

Note - as a start, yes DIY Wills is better than zilch.
As one's net worth grows, U may want to be more prudent - dont be penny wise and pound foolish, for your loved ones who are economically dependent on U.

Just a thought (i'm no Will writer or stuff yar, just did it from DIY to Professional and sharing what i found )

Your're right, of course U can
However, U need 2 witnesses who should not be beneficiaries + named Executors who U trust AND know how to execute your Will in accordance to the law. In addition, certain clauses should be in, in case U have commissions, royalties, etc still coming in AND a few other considerations if U want to exclude certain close parties from your Will (thus they may try and challenge).

It's just like car servicing and repairs or plumbing - sure U can do it yourself if U know how. The only extra complication is the EXECUTOR and law of the land that one has to know and deal with, all to ensure your loved ones are taken care of when, not IF, one kicks the bucket

Note: If one is OK that it may take 2 to 4 years, even with a valid and uncontested Will, then i guess any Tom, d*** or Harry can be an Executor gua - hopefully by then, loved ones doesn't starve to death

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 20 2012, 09:40 AM