Nope, my ownership experience say otherwise. ICE mode don't give poorer mileage versus non-hybrid ICE. It is more economical than ICE car that contains 50% horsepower even when PHEV "battery is flat".

At worse case PHEV still perform better than HEV, because the left over 0% battery capacity still higher than HEV full charge capacity.

Experience is a lot better traffic jam, engine remain off longer then HEV at "0%" state. Unless one get stuck at Bukit Bintang friday evening jam, car don't move for 20-30min straight, other normal occation engine never turn on at stop even when battery show 0%.

Even when engine charging the battery at idle, PHEV is a lot quieter than HEV due to much much power engine. HEV tiny engine need to rev high rpm to charge.
HEV noise when charging battery when car is stop is enough to interrupt the conversation people sitting in the car. Kinda pause for few seconds, here come the noise, before continue.

I get below 7L/100km or above 14.3km/l over 760km distance day trip, with no change to charge. This is from actual refuel of 53L, not trip computer. Although my trip computer is accurate and true to refuel amount.

This is 400+ hp PHEV, and not really driven gently on some section of the road (chill good boy legal speed mostly, then when overtaking lorries won't hesitate to go to 200km/h, and overtaking everyone at hill climb near Ipoh). This is better economy that my previous 200hp turbo car, with only 50% horsepower. Can HEV still do 22-25km/l driven at similar manner? Not only speed, but also match the pace change.

Of course if one abuse the floor to metal flat out 100-200km/h, hard brake behind anyone block then full accelerate again when there is opening, fuel economy = worse than 5km/l. Not going to deny that.
Full tank trip computer estimated range drop to 2xx km only.

Can HEV more fuel economy than PHEV? In some case, sure. However HEV has only 25% of horsepower vs PHEV on average, and the result is on average 10-20% better fuel economy versus PHEV that don't charge at all.
Of course price also 30% of PHEV, but being said that if one can afford PHEV, there is no reason to settle for HEV.

This post has been edited by constant_weight: Oct 13 2023, 07:38 AM

I'm looking for overall ownership experience. Not actually it is PHEV, it is merely one of the perks.

Tax incentive is big part of it.

My PHEV if you trying to tick all the optional feature in US to be same spec as Malaysia version. It will cost near USD70,000 with destination tax.
The same USD70,000 price in US can buy a Porsche Macan S.

In Malaysia my PHEV is 300k, and the base tine kosong Porsche Macan cost 400k. Macan S will be 500k+ depends on the optional box ticked.

Overall get a lot better total ownership experience (driving, power, comfort, safety, trim) compared to ICE car at same 300k. Think of what you can get in C200 with 288k.

If wanna save money with PHEV, can forget about it. Sure it save some with better fuel economy, but the $$ save is not meaningful relative to the car price.

Now with the Chery, sorry I'm against anything from Chery, ICE/EV/PHEV anything. Due to Chery don't put lots of effort R&D in the mechanical tuning, handling, braking. The brake bias is bad, meaning the nose dive badly controlled in braking, car nose lifted heavily in acceleration. With the PHEV + turbo, it is something car enthusiasts engine is too strong for weak chassis.

It is ok if you drive mostly in city, just do straight line speed on highway, but not turn corner fast type. Careful on the brake, give same tyre braking distance is not as good as other car with better brake bias tuning.

This post has been edited by constant_weight: Oct 13 2023, 10:24 AM

In urban, or even stop-N-still-can-go traffic, hybrid is decent and shines in term of fuel economy.

I just have strong opinion during standstill "stop-No-go" traffic. 1 hour+ still can't get past traffic light 100m away.
Not everyone has that disaster in their car use case, I no longer need to go through that for many years, but that nightmare still got my nerve.

PHEV has 2x - 3x more torque engine to charge the battery at lower RPM during standstill, thus minimal intrusion.
The way hybrid engine charge battery when at complete standstill is my biggest bad experience.

Or maybe Honday HEV manage the charging hell a lot better the Prius I haven't have change to sit in HEV in that kind of traffic.

My philosophy - The ROI from car are the experiences, the time spent, the place visited, the people sat in together, the freedom, non of it is about the money.
RV is nonsense, sooner or later even property RV will down the drain with world aging population, unless the property is in India.

This post has been edited by constant_weight: Oct 21 2023, 11:41 PM

This is similar to advertise engine/motor torque without consider the final drive gear ratio (even EV single gear). When Elon Musk stated 10,000Nm on the wheel, a lot of people call him bull shit.

But isn't what we get on the wheel is all it matters?

For my car the EV + ICE max torque is available up to ICE mid rpm of 4th gear, with EV motor at its half of max rpm. That's around 75km/h.
But to maximize speed reduction = torque amplification at the wheel, I should use 2nd gear at near red line instead.

Then EV + ICE max horsepower is available up to 3rd gear. At 4th gear the ICE max hp 6000rpm speed is 169km/h, while EV max hp available up to 158km/h at 12500rpm, there is slight speed mismatch.
Basically the EV motor reach max hp at 6000rpm, with torque flat from 0 - 6000rpm. After 6000rpm the torque started to tapper of, at max 12500rpm the torque about 50% of 6000rpm. Thus 6000rpm - 12500rpm the horsepower remain largely constant.

It took a lot of efforts to get the geeky information above. I tried to research the same for Honda HEV, but couldn't find the either of the gen/motor specification (basically max RPM, to what RPM it able to maintain max torque)

I'm the big supporter of no blanket fuel subsidies. Want to give target subsidies to B40 or some M40, as long as it is a fixed amount and no more than RM100 per month, I'm fine with it.
Like the recent chicken and meat subsidies after allow them to float per market price, those in needs get constant RM100 per month.

I'm not talking about properties bubble by some "master". I'm referring to the macro population structural transformation + urbanization that happening almost all over the world.
The developed countries are already relying on immigrants to maintain their workforce. If the trend did not reverse, Japan/Korea population will be half around mid 2030's.

Singapore slightly later, Malaysia around 2050's. US depends on immigrants policy, and France >50% of population will be African dependents.
India will be the global workforce, their current median age is only 26yo.

Focus in Malaysia it will not be flat. The large city like Penang, KL, JB will likely continue to grow. However we will see more and more abandoned ghost town.