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 No Earth Wire and RCD Adapter

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SUSceo684
post Sep 21 2023, 06:42 PM

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Hi, would be great if you can add pics. I understand the situation but to give better commentary need pics of actual situation biggrin.gif
SUSceo684
post Sep 22 2023, 12:50 AM

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QUOTE(pigduck @ Sep 21 2023, 05:56 PM)
My questions

1. Could it be 1 power socket that is causing the earth wire now to be broken in the circuit? I remember we had 1 power socket that blew out a multi-usb adapter because we plugged in 2 wireless mics to charge. The power socket still works but if I change it do you think it will solve my earth wire problem? Or if I changed all my power sockets in those 2 rooms + 1 bath?

2. If I bought an RCD adapter (with 3 pin) for certain power points (like bathroom) is that sufficient? Right now, this charges 2 pin appliances only

3. Can this all be fixed at the box and can I add an RCD there or change out the circuit breakers for those rooms?

4. I went to the apartment unit below me to check and noticed only 1 power socket doesn't have earth wire but the rest have in the same areas my rooms. Is that the power socket problem?

I just find pulling a new earth wire from around my house to this part of my house is too much. There must be 1 central point the earth wire is incoming from for this part of my house to  be affected and that just needs to be fixed...

Update: OK I added the photos
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1. Ever had usb charging cables just "die" after a few uses? Due to handling/internal breakage.
1.1 When the electrician is there, did he ascertain that the earth line is connected from (the socket E to the DB box E)? Or disconnected totally?

2. You need 10mA for wet floor RCDs.
2.1 It is better to install the 10mA RCD in DB box specific to WH circuit/bathroom sockets. Cost-wise about the same.
2.2 I would also recommend the main (whole house) RCD to be a 30mA (0.03A) model. >50mA is lethal

Attached Image

3. Yes can and should be fixed at the box.
3.1 Box upgrades are cheap for plastic box, but will cost couple hundreds for a metal box.
3.2 Always go big for the box. RCDs take up a lot of space

4. Seems like a systemic issue> is this a new place? You should claim defect fixing within DLP.
4.1 I have seen developer-installed sockets that wires just popped off by itself "i.e. not screwed in at all". Bolehland at its finest. brows.gif
4.2 Earth for all circuits are all cojoined at the DB box. You can tap on to a nearby known-good E line.

Attached Image

QUOTE
1. This past month, I decided to change 1 power socket in my house. The power socket cannot be screwed to the internal box anymore so I was trying to figure out how to fix this. I tried buying those cassette repair devices but they don't work. Don't buy them!

2. In the end I changed it to a dual power socket with an external PVC nut box that I used to hide the hole. I also used liquid nails because I didn't want to drill holes because the socket is below a window. This may be a mistake.

3. Because the internal wires were too short, I had to put wire connectors and extend them with new wires. Previously, the two blacks were wrapped together, the two greens were wrapped together and the two whites were wrapped together. I unwrapped them, and put them into wire connectors and then attached new wires to the wire connectors. All 6 wires were then put into the external nut box where I then put the two black, two green and two red/ white wires into their respective holes in the new dual power socket. It works so far.

4. I used a socket tester to test and noticed no earth wire. I thought at first it's not a problem because all the power sockets in my room said no earth wire. But when I tested in other rooms and the kitchen there was earth wire!

5. I found out 2 rooms + 1 bath (dry) has no earth wire. They are all adjoining to each other. I pressed the button on the socket tester but nothing happened?

6. I spoke to electrician and he didn't seem too concerned except he said don't use heavy appliance in the room. He said only 3 pin plug appliances and metal products will be affected and this was when I recalled that when I used to charge my Macbook Pro I would feel the current when I charged it. Now it all makes sense. He said if I charge laptop and all, it should be OK. He said the lights and ACs should not be affected...

7. He said I can pull an earth wire from a good power socket from another room to a socket in the room(s) that don't have earth wire and it should be OK because it's in a loop?


7. Refer above. Yes can tap.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Sep 22 2023, 12:53 AM
SUSceo684
post Sep 23 2023, 07:28 PM

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QUOTE(pigduck @ Sep 23 2023, 12:15 AM)
1. OK so this power socket ring starts from DB and ends at DB - I need to figure out where is the entry point and where is the end point when it comes to the sockets in the affected area.
2. The lazy electrician just wanted to tap from a good existing socket. He did mention a loop but maybe for easy method it is to tap but it is ugly
3. It sounds more effective to figure out which socket is the start from DB and which is the end to the DB because it is a loop.
4. If I remember correctly, we used to have an instant water heater that we removed after awhile in this bathroom but that is more than 15 years ago. Maybe this was when they dismantled the earth wire.
5. So if this is a power socket ring, and if 1 socket 'disconnected' the earth wire and broke the ring, then the entire section will not have earth wire, right?
6. Or does it mean that if 1 socket 'disconnected' the earth wire, the rest of the ring will still have earth wire connection? Since now is a whole section of the house or at least under 1 MCB that doesn't have earth so it makes sense it was disconnected at the busbar. We will only know if they open up the DB, right?
7. I will check by turning off the 32a MCB tomorrow to see.
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QUOTE(jio @ Sep 23 2023, 02:11 AM)
2. The issue is why the earth was disconnected in the first place. If it was intentional due short causing RCCB tripping, the short may still be there may cause RCCB trip. You will still have to find the exact section the short occurs and rectify it, or replace the earth wiring for the ring circuit. .

5. Every point should have 2 path back to DB. Even if it was broken in the middle, it will still have 1 of the path back to DB. Even if you 'delete' 1 of the socket, the wires should still be connected to form a complete ring circuit (which allows 2.5mm² wiring to use 50% larger MCB 20A>32A). This is also why I suggest continuity test to be done on the ring circuit. If you want to split into 2 radial circuit instead of ring, then you will have to use 2 separate 16A/20A breaker.

6. Yep.
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Isolating the ring circuit off; and checking whether it was originally installed as a ring OR they were TWO radials (unrelated) but for some reason it had inherent issue and the previous owner modified as a ring circuit may need to be checked out.

Also, if your mains supply (from TNB) is 40A, i would suggest splitting up to individual 30mA RCD per phase ("the preferred solution is having three 1phase RCDs if not running any 400V equipment - coz if one RCD tripped you still have 2/3 running - but this is not typically done just because of $ factor - more expensive than a single 3phase RCD") coz I saw a link for cheap used 40A 0.03A (30mA) RCDs at https://shopee.com.my/(used)-40a-Hager-elcb...800.15697090044 - if you want to retrofit u will need 3pcs 0.03A.

Ignore the above paragraph if mains supply is 63A.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Sep 23 2023, 07:29 PM

 

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