I am long winded. Bear with me.

1. This past month, I decided to change 1 power socket in my house. The power socket cannot be screwed to the internal box anymore so I was trying to figure out how to fix this. I tried buying those cassette repair devices but they don't work. Don't buy them!

2. In the end I changed it to a dual power socket with an external PVC nut box that I used to hide the hole. I also used liquid nails because I didn't want to drill holes because the socket is below a window. This may be a mistake.

3. Because the internal wires were too short, I had to put wire connectors and extend them with new wires. Previously, the two blacks were wrapped together, the two greens were wrapped together and the two whites were wrapped together. I unwrapped them, and put them into wire connectors and then attached new wires to the wire connectors. All 6 wires were then put into the external nut box where I then put the two black, two green and two red/ white wires into their respective holes in the new dual power socket. It works so far.

4. I used a socket tester to test and noticed no earth wire. I thought at first it's not a problem because all the power sockets in my room said no earth wire. But when I tested in other rooms and the kitchen there was earth wire!

5. I found out 2 rooms + 1 bath (dry) has no earth wire. They are all adjoining to each other. I pressed the button on the socket tester but nothing happened?

6. I spoke to electrician and he didn't seem too concerned except he said don't use heavy appliance in the room. He said only 3 pin plug appliances and metal products will be affected and this was when I recalled that when I used to charge my Macbook Pro I would feel the current when I charged it. Now it all makes sense. He said if I charge laptop and all, it should be OK. He said the lights and ACs should not be affected...

7. He said I can pull an earth wire from a good power socket from another room to a socket in the room(s) that don't have earth wire and it should be OK because it's in a loop?

My questions

1. Could it be 1 power socket that is causing the earth wire now to be broken in the circuit? I remember we had 1 power socket that blew out a multi-usb adapter because we plugged in 2 wireless mics to charge. The power socket still works but if I change it do you think it will solve my earth wire problem? Or if I changed all my power sockets in those 2 rooms + 1 bath?

2. If I bought an RCD adapter (with 3 pin) for certain power points (like bathroom) is that sufficient? Right now, this charges 2 pin appliances only

3. Can this all be fixed at the box and can I add an RCD there or change out the circuit breakers for those rooms?

4. I went to the apartment unit below me to check and noticed only 1 power socket doesn't have earth wire but the rest have in the same areas my rooms. Is that the power socket problem?

I just find pulling a new earth wire from around my house to this part of my house is too much. There must be 1 central point the earth wire is incoming from for this part of my house to be affected and that just needs to be fixed...

Update: OK I added the photos

This post has been edited by pigduck: Sep 21 2023, 07:15 PM


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Hi, would be great if you can add pics. I understand the situation but to give better commentary need pics of actual situation

7. Yes you should.
The central should be from your db

Yeah done!

Is there no other way but this?

find a plug that has working ground then connect there.

if your condo still new, can claim defect.

the ground is utmost important. or else the human that touches exposed live, that human will be the ground

1. Ever had usb charging cables just "die" after a few uses? Due to handling/internal breakage.
1.1 When the electrician is there, did he ascertain that the earth line is connected from (the socket E to the DB box E)? Or disconnected totally?

2. You need 10mA for wet floor RCDs.
2.1 It is better to install the 10mA RCD in DB box specific to WH circuit/bathroom sockets. Cost-wise about the same.
2.2 I would also recommend the main (whole house) RCD to be a 30mA (0.03A) model. >50mA is lethal



3. Yes can and should be fixed at the box.
3.1 Box upgrades are cheap for plastic box, but will cost couple hundreds for a metal box.
3.2 Always go big for the box. RCDs take up a lot of space

4. Seems like a systemic issue> is this a new place? You should claim defect fixing within DLP.
4.1 I have seen developer-installed sockets that wires just popped off by itself "i.e. not screwed in at all". Bolehland at its finest.
4.2 Earth for all circuits are all cojoined at the DB box. You can tap on to a nearby known-good E line.





7. Refer above. Yes can tap.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Sep 22 2023, 12:53 AM

1 No cable has died
2. Electrician has not come yet. I just plugged in the socket tester into the sockets to test
3. OK I might buy the RCD adapter in the mean time for bathroom
4. And eventually I should install RCDs in the DB
5. Good to know that I can probably get the earth wires back in working order from the DB
6. Ours is metal DB now but it kena rain leaking before and probably a few more times that I wasn't aware of
7. Very old place. 30+ years and I never realised the no earth wire problem until I tested with the socket tester.
8. So I still need to tap from nearest socket? This is something I am trying not to do because it will look ugly.
9. I looked at my DB box and noticed that there is a power ring for sockets in the two rooms. Could the earth wire at the dB box for this circuit breaker be broken?

This post has been edited by pigduck: Sep 22 2023, 06:34 PM


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I suggest
1. Change the main RCD to 30ma.
2. I can't read the handwriting properly, but those sockets with missing earth are probably part of a ring circuit. That is just way too many sockets to leave without earthing. RCD socket adapter (use only those with 10ma and not 30ma) will not help if the leakage to earth wiring is from another socket in the ring circuit. So it is best you are not using appliance with earth pin in bathroom. Also if it was really ring circuit then it is very likely the both end of the earth wire had been dismantled from the busbar (perhaps due to RCCB tripping when it get wet). Also please ask the electrician to check the continuity of the ring circuit and tag its neutral wires if it was not tagged.

1. Yes OK change the main RCD to 30ma, check continuity of the ring circuit and tag neutral wires in the DB
2. Yes it is under red (top) 32a power socket ring circuit for R3/R2 - it apparently covers the service room too but that room based on my socket testing is OK.
3. Can this be earth wire be manually dismantled from the busbar? The RCCB didn't trip when it got wet? In fact, thinking about it now, we had a pipe burst in the bathroom VERY close to the power switch in the bathroom - can the earth wire get wet then stop working?
4. Are you saying that say within 1 of the power socket ring circuit, we could have some wires touching in the two sockets that are killing the earth wire circuit?


This post has been edited by pigduck: Sep 22 2023, 10:48 PM

1. At least for the ring circuits as both ends must return to the DB and easier to find the cable for continuity testing.
2. Are you sure the service room under the same ring circuit? You can confirm by turning of the MCB and see which other sockets without power. In proper ring circuit, both end of the wiring will be connected back to the same MCB and busbar. Someone will have to disconnect both ends to completely cut off the earth wire from the busbar. If the service room socket belongs to the same ring circuit, someone will have to disconnect 1 end from busbar and disconnect the earth wire behind the socket to the rest of the ring circuit.
3. If you have tripping issue before, then it might dismantled by the prior electrician. Earth wire won't simply stop working by getting wet. Either it came loose, broke or someone disconnect it manually.
4. No, that's not what I'm saying. Even though the earth wiring for the socket no longer connected to the earth busbar in DB, it is still connected between the sockets in the ring circuit itself. If you have an appliance had short to earth wire in another socket within the ring, your having RCD socket adapter in bathroom won't protect you from that. RCD only can protect leakage downstream of it and not before. You will need a RCD socket adapter for every socket with appliance that uses earth pin, which is ridiculous. You might as well use 32A 10ma RCBO temporarily instead of 32A MCB.

1. OK so this power socket ring starts from DB and ends at DB - I need to figure out where is the entry point and where is the end point when it comes to the sockets in the affected area.
2. The lazy electrician just wanted to tap from a good existing socket. He did mention a loop but maybe for easy method it is to tap but it is ugly
3. It sounds more effective to figure out which socket is the start from DB and which is the end to the DB because it is a loop.
4. If I remember correctly, we used to have an instant water heater that we removed after awhile in this bathroom but that is more than 15 years ago. Maybe this was when they dismantled the earth wire.
5. So if this is a power socket ring, and if 1 socket 'disconnected' the earth wire and broke the ring, then the entire section will not have earth wire, right?
6. Or does it mean that if 1 socket 'disconnected' the earth wire, the rest of the ring will still have earth wire connection? Since now is a whole section of the house or at least under 1 MCB that doesn't have earth so it makes sense it was disconnected at the busbar. We will only know if they open up the DB, right?
7. I will check by turning off the 32a MCB tomorrow to see.

This post has been edited by pigduck: Sep 23 2023, 12:15 AM


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2. The issue is why the earth was disconnected in the first place. If it was intentional due short causing RCCB tripping, the short may still be there may cause RCCB trip. You will still have to find the exact section the short occurs and rectify it, or replace the earth wiring for the ring circuit. .

5. Every point should have 2 path back to DB. Even if it was broken in the middle, it will still have 1 of the path back to DB. Even if you 'delete' 1 of the socket, the wires should still be connected to form a complete ring circuit (which allows 2.5mm² wiring to use 50% larger MCB 20A>32A). This is also why I suggest continuity test to be done on the ring circuit. If you want to split into 2 radial circuit instead of ring, then you will have to use 2 separate 16A/20A breaker.

6. Yep.

Isolating the ring circuit off; and checking whether it was originally installed as a ring OR they were TWO radials (unrelated) but for some reason it had inherent issue and the previous owner modified as a ring circuit may need to be checked out.

Also, if your mains supply (from TNB) is 40A, i would suggest splitting up to individual 30mA RCD per phase ("the preferred solution is having three 1phase RCDs if not running any 400V equipment - coz if one RCD tripped you still have 2/3 running - but this is not typically done just because of $ factor - more expensive than a single 3phase RCD") coz I saw a link for cheap used 40A 0.03A (30mA) RCDs at https://shopee.com.my/(used)-40a-Hager-elcb...800.15697090044 - if you want to retrofit u will need 3pcs 0.03A.

Ignore the above paragraph if mains supply is 63A.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Sep 23 2023, 07:29 PM

Based on the paper that is stuck on the DB, it says it is a power socket ring. I have no idea why they cut out the earth wire in this ring

I think from my photos, the ELCB is 63A?

The electrician doesn't want to look at the DB and just wants to drag a new earth wire from the nearest socket. 😓

Earthing is really important.You may need to check N-E voltage also.