Tesla created secret team to suppress thousands of driving range complaints
TLDR:
In March, Alexandre Ponsin set out on a family road trip from Colorado to California in his newly purchased Tesla, a used 2021 Model 3. He expected to get something close to the electric sport sedan’s advertised driving range: 353 miles on a fully charged battery.

He soon realized he was sometimes getting less than half that much range, particularly in cold weather – such severe underperformance that he was convinced the car had a serious defect.

“We’re looking at the range, and you literally see the number decrease in front of your eyes,” he said of his dashboard range meter.

Ponsin contacted Tesla and booked a service appointment in California. He later received two text messages, telling him that “remote diagnostics” had determined his battery was fine, and then: “We would like to cancel your visit.”

What Ponsin didn’t know was that Tesla employees had been instructed to thwart any customers complaining about poor driving range from bringing their vehicles in for service. Last summer, the company quietly created a “Diversion Team” in Las Vegas to cancel as many range-related appointments as possible.

The Austin, Texas-based electric carmaker deployed the team because its service centers were inundated with appointments from owners who had expected better performance based on the company’s advertised estimates and the projections displayed by the in-dash range meters of the cars themselves, according to several people familiar with the matter.


Inside the Nevada team’s office, some employees celebrated canceling service appointments by putting their phones on mute and striking a metal xylophone, triggering applause from coworkers who sometimes stood on desks. The team often closed hundreds of cases a week and staffers were tracked on their average number of diverted appointments per day.

Managers told the employees that they were saving Tesla about $1,000 for every canceled appointment, the people said. Another goal was to ease the pressure on service centers, some of which had long waits for appointments.

In most cases, the complaining customers’ cars likely did not need repair, according to the people familiar with the matter. Rather, Tesla created the groundswell of complaints another way – by hyping the range of its futuristic electric vehicles, or EVs, raising consumer expectations beyond what the cars can deliver. Teslas often fail to achieve their advertised range estimates and the projections provided by the cars’ own equipment, according to Reuters interviews with three automotive experts who have tested or studied the company’s vehicles.

Neither Tesla nor Chief Executive Elon Musk responded to detailed questions from Reuters for this story.


Tesla years ago began exaggerating its vehicles’ potential driving distance – by rigging their range-estimating software. The company decided about a decade ago, for marketing purposes, to write algorithms for its range meter that would show drivers “rosy” projections for the distance it could travel on a full battery, according to a person familiar with an early design of the software for its in-dash readouts.

Then, when the battery fell below 50% of its maximum charge, the algorithm would show drivers more realistic projections for their remaining driving range, this person said. To prevent drivers from getting stranded as their predicted range started declining more quickly, Teslas were designed with a “safety buffer,” allowing about 15 miles (24 km) of additional range even after the dash readout showed an empty battery, the source said.

The directive to present the optimistic range estimates came from Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk, this person said.

“Elon wanted to show good range numbers when fully charged,” the person said, adding: “When you buy a car off the lot seeing 350-mile, 400-mile range, it makes you feel good.”

Tesla’s intentional inflation of in-dash range-meter projections and the creation of its range-complaints diversion team have not been previously reported.

Driving range is among the most important factors in consumer decisions on which electric car to buy, or whether to buy one at all. So-called range anxiety – the fear of running out of power before reaching a charger – has been a primary obstacle to boosting electric-vehicle sales.


An image from a statement by South Korean regulators, who cited Tesla for false advertising this year. The agency said the company failed to disclose that cold weather could greatly reduce its vehicles’ driving range. Regulators also required Tesla to change certain wording on its local website.

At the time Tesla programmed in the rosy range projections, it was selling only two models: the two-door Roadster, its first vehicle, which was later discontinued; and the Model S, a luxury sport sedan launched in 2012. It now sells four models: two cars, the 3 and S; and two crossover SUVs, the X and Y. Tesla plans the return of the Roadster, along with a “Cybertruck” pickup.

Reuters could not determine whether Tesla still uses algorithms that boost in-dash range estimates. But automotive testers and regulators continue to flag the company for exaggerating the distance its vehicles can travel before their batteries run out.

Tesla was fined earlier this year by South Korean regulators who found the cars delivered as little as half their advertised range in cold weather. Another recent study found that three Tesla models averaged 26% below their advertised ranges.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has required Tesla since the 2020 model year to reduce the range estimates the automaker wanted to advertise for six of its vehicles by an average of 3%. The EPA told Reuters, however, that it expects some variation between the results of separate tests conducted by automakers and the agency.

Data collected in 2022 and 2023 from more than 8,000 Teslas by Recurrent, a Seattle-based EV analytics company, showed that the cars’ dashboard range meters didn’t change their estimates to reflect hot or cold outside temperatures, which can greatly reduce range.

Recurrent found that Tesla’s four models almost always calculated that they could travel more than 90% of their advertised EPA range estimates regardless of external temperatures. Scott Case, Recurrent’s chief executive, told Reuters that Tesla’s range meters also ignore many other conditions affecting driving distance.

Electric cars can lose driving range for a lot of the same reasons as gasoline cars — but to a greater degree. The cold is a particular drag on EVs, slowing the chemical and physical reactions inside their batteries and requiring a heating system to protect them. Other drains on the battery include hilly terrain, headwinds, a driver’s lead foot and running the heating or air-conditioning inside the cabin.

Tesla discusses the general effect of such conditions in a “Range Tips” section of its website. The automaker also recently updated its vehicle software to provide a breakdown of battery consumption during recent trips with suggestions on how range might have been improved.

Tesla vehicles provide range estimates in two ways: One through a dashboard meter of current range that’s always on, and a second projection through its navigation system, which works when a driver inputs a specific destination. The navigation system’s range estimate, Case said, does account for a wider set of conditions, including temperature. While those estimates are “more realistic,” they still tend to overstate the distance the car can travel before it needs to be recharged, he said.

Recurrent tested other automakers’ in-dash range meters – including the Ford Mustang Mach-E, the Chevrolet Bolt and the Hyundai Kona – and found them to be more accurate. The Kona’s range meter generally underestimated the distance the car could travel, the tests showed. Recurrent conducted the study with the help of a National Science Foundation grant.

Tesla, Case said, has consistently designed the range meters in its cars to deliver aggressive rather than conservative estimates: “That’s where Tesla has taken a different path from most other automakers.”


Failed tests and false advertising

Tesla isn’t the only automaker with cars that don’t regularly achieve their advertised ranges.

One of the experts, Gregory Pannone, co-authored a study of 21 different brands of electric vehicles, published in April by SAE International, an engineering organization. The research found that, on average, the cars fell short of their advertised ranges by 12.5% in highway driving.

The study did not name the brands tested, but Pannone told Reuters that three Tesla models posted the worst performance, falling short of their advertised ranges by an average of 26%.

The EV pioneer pushes the limits of government testing regulations that govern the claims automakers put on window stickers, the three automotive experts told Reuters.

Like their gas-powered counterparts, new electric vehicles are required by U.S. federal law to display a label with fuel-efficiency information. In the case of EVs, this is stated in miles-per-gallon equivalent (MPGe), allowing consumers to compare them to gasoline or diesel vehicles. The labels also include estimates of total range: how far an EV can travel on a full charge, in combined city and highway driving.



EV makers have a choice in how to calculate a model’s range. They can use a standard EPA formula that converts fuel-economy results from city and highway driving tests to calculate a total range figure. Or automakers can conduct additional tests to come up with their own range estimate. The only reason to conduct more tests is to generate a more favorable estimate, said Pannone, a retired auto-industry veteran.

Tesla conducts additional range tests on all of its models. By contrast, many other automakers, including Ford, Mercedes and Porsche, continue to rely on the EPA’s formula to calculate potential range, according to agency data for 2023 models. That generally produces more conservative estimates, Pannone said.

Mercedes-Benz told Reuters it uses the EPA’s formula because it believes it provides a more accurate estimate. “We follow a certification strategy that reflects the real-world driving behavior of our customers in the best possible way,” the German carmaker said in a statement.

Ford and Porsche didn’t respond to requests for comment.


Whatever an automaker decides, the EPA must approve the window-sticker numbers. The agency told Reuters it conducts its own tests on 15% to 20% of new electric vehicles each year as part of an audit program and has tested six Tesla models since the 2020 model year.

EPA data obtained by Reuters through the Freedom of Information Act showed that the audits resulted in Tesla being required to lower all the cars’ estimated ranges by an average of 3%. The projected range for one vehicle, the 2021 Model Y Long Range AWD (all-wheel drive), dropped by 5.15%. The EPA said all the changes to Tesla’s range estimates were made before the company used the figures on window stickers.

The EPA said it has seen “everything” in its audits of EV manufacturers’ range testing, including low and high estimates from other automakers. “That is what we expect when we have new manufacturers and new technologies entering the market and why EPA prioritizes” auditing them, the agency said.

The EPA cautioned that individuals’ actual experience with vehicle efficiency might differ from the estimates the agency approves. Independent automotive testers commonly examine the EPA-approved fuel-efficiency or driving range claims against their own experience in structured tests or real-world driving. Often, they get different results, as in the case of Tesla vehicles.

Pannone called Tesla “the most aggressive” electric-vehicle manufacturer when it comes to range calculations.

“I’m not suggesting they’re cheating,” Pannone said of Tesla. “What they’re doing, at least minimally, is leveraging the current procedures more than the other manufacturers.”

Jonathan Elfalan, vehicle testing director for the automotive website Edmunds.com, reached a similar conclusion to Pannone after an extensive examination of vehicles from Tesla and other major automakers, including Ford, General Motors, Hyundai and Porsche.

All five Tesla models tested by Edmunds failed to achieve their advertised range, the website reported in February 2021. All but one of 10 other models from other manufacturers exceeded their advertised range.

Tesla complained to Edmunds that the test failed to account for the safety buffer programmed into Tesla’s in-dash range meters. So Edmunds did further testing, this time running the vehicles, as Tesla requested, past the point where their range meters indicated the batteries had run out.

Only two of six Teslas tested matched their advertised range, Edmunds reported in March 2021. The tests found no fixed safety buffer.

Edmunds has continued to test electric vehicles, using its own standard method, to see if they meet their advertised range estimates. As of July, no Tesla vehicle had, Elfalan said.

“They've gotten really good at exploiting the rule book and maximizing certain points to work in their favor involving EPA tests,” Elfalan told Reuters. The practice can “misrepresent what their customers will experience with their vehicles.”

South Korean regulators earlier this year fined Tesla about $2.1 million for falsely advertised driving ranges on its local website between August 2019 and December 2022. The Korea Fair Trade Commission (KFTC) found that Tesla failed to tell customers that cold weather can drastically reduce its cars’ range. It cited tests by the country’s environment ministry that showed Tesla cars lost up to 50.5% of the company’s claimed ranges in cold weather.

The KFTC also flagged certain statements on Tesla’s website, including one that claimed about a particular model: “You can drive 528 km (328 miles) or longer on a single charge.” Regulators required Tesla to remove the “or longer” phrase.

Korean regulators required Tesla to publicly admit it had misled consumers. Musk and two local executives did so in a June 19 statement, acknowledging “false/exaggerated advertising.”


Creating a diversion

By last year, sales of Tesla’s electric vehicles were surging. The company delivered about 1.3 million cars in 2022, nearly 13 times more than five years before.

As sales grew, so did demand for service appointments. The wait for an available booking was sometimes a month, according to one of the sources familiar with the diversion team’s operations.

Tesla instructs owners to book appointments through a phone app. The company found that many problems could be handled by its “virtual” service teams, who can remotely diagnose and fix various issues.

Tesla supervisors told some virtual team members to steer customers away from bringing their cars into service whenever possible. One current Tesla “Virtual Service Advisor” described part of his job in his LinkedIn profile: “Divert customers who do not require in person service.”

Such advisors handled a variety of issues, including range complaints. But last summer, Tesla created the Las Vegas “Diversion Team” to handle only range cases, according to the people familiar with the matter.

The office atmosphere at times resembled that of a telemarketing boiler room. A supervisor had purchased the metallophone – a xylophone with metal keys – that employees struck to celebrate appointment cancellations, according to the people familiar with the office’s operations.

Advisers would normally run remote diagnostics on customers’ cars and try to call them, the people said. They were trained to tell customers that the EPA-approved range estimates were just a prediction, not an actual measurement, and that batteries degrade over time, which can reduce range. Advisors would offer tips on extending range by changing driving habits.

If the remote diagnostics found anything else wrong with the vehicle that was not related to driving range, advisors were instructed not to tell the customer, one of the sources said. Managers told them to close the cases.

Tesla also updated its phone app so that any customer who complained about range could no longer book service appointments, one of the sources said. Instead, they could request that someone from Tesla contact them. It often took several days before owners were contacted because of the large backlog of range complaints, the source said.


The update routed all U.S. range complaints to the Nevada diversion team, which started in Las Vegas and later moved to the nearby suburb of Henderson. The team was soon fielding up to 2,000 cases a week, which sometimes included multiple complaints from customers frustrated they couldn't book a service appointment, one of the people said.

The team was expected to close about 750 cases a week. To accomplish that, office supervisors told advisers to call a customer once and, if there was no answer, to close the case as unresponsive, the source said. When customers did respond, advisers were told to try to complete the call in no more than five minutes.

In late 2022, managers aiming to quickly close cases told advisors to stop running remote diagnostic tests on the vehicles of owners who had reported range problems, according to one of the people familiar with the diversion team’s operations.

“Thousands of customers were told there is nothing wrong with their car” by advisors who had never run diagnostics, the person said.

Reuters could not establish how long the practice continued.

Tesla recently stopped using its diversion team in Nevada to handle range-related complaints, according to the person familiar with the matter. Virtual service advisors in an office in Utah are now handling range cases, the person said. Reuters could not determine why the change was made.


On the road

By the time Alexandre Ponsin reached California on his March road trip, he had stopped to charge his Model 3’s battery about a dozen times.

Concerned that something was seriously wrong with the car, he had called and texted with several Tesla representatives. One of them booked the first available appointment in Santa Clara – about two weeks away – but advised him to show up at a Tesla service center as soon as he arrived in California.

Ponsin soon received a text saying that remote diagnostics had shown his battery “is in good health.”

“We would like to cancel your visit for now if you have no other concerns,” the text read.

“Of course I still have concerns,” Ponsin shot back. “I have 150 miles of range on a full charge!”

The next day, he received another text message asking him to cancel the appointment. “I am sorry, but no I do not want to close the service appointment as I do not feel my concerns have been addressed,” he replied.

Undeterred, Ponsin brought his car to the Santa Clara service center without an appointment. A technician there told him the car was fine. “It lasted 10 minutes,” Ponsin said, “and they didn’t even look at the car physically.”

After doing more research into range estimates, he said he ultimately concluded there is nothing wrong with his car. The problem, he said, was that Tesla is overstating its performance. He believes Tesla “should be a lot more explicit about the variation in the range,” especially in very cold weather.

“I do love my Tesla,” the engineer said. “But I have just tempered my expectation of what it can do in certain conditions.”

Range Rage
By Steve Stecklow in London and Norihiko Shirouzu in Austin
Additional reporting by Heekyong Yang and Ju-min Park in Seoul and Peter Henderson in San Francisco
Art direction and lead illustration: Eve Watling
Video Production: Lucy Ha and Ilan Rubens
Edited by Brian Thevenot
Source: www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range

red_satu TLDR :
About a decade ago, Tesla rigged the dashboard readouts in its electric cars to provide “rosy” projections of how far owners can drive before needing to recharge, a source told Reuters. The automaker last year became so inundated with driving-range complaints that it created a special team to cancel owners’ service appointments.

This post has been edited by Pikichu: Jul 28 2023, 08:54 AM

The first case stupid or what?

He thought used tesla has the same range as brand new one? And then used it in cold weather too like bruh, plenty of people on youtube already say range on cold weather is very bad

Buy a used Tesla and expect full range with a worn out battery?

Ur article already stated range drops in cold weather. Dont u read wat u post?

Not only that, when driver send car to service, Tesla deny service.
Tesla celebrate denying customer car service.

Deleted soon cause quote TS first post

Unethical Elon Musk
Dishonest Elon Musk
Untrustworthy Elon Musk

Unethical Elon Musk
Dishonest Elon Musk
Untrustworthy Elon Musk

Unethical Elon Musk
Dishonest Elon Musk
Untrustworthy Elon Musk

Nice. Tesla owner can read this long article while waiting for supercharger.

when automotive news is slow. just bash tesla. sure get many interactions. typical automotive journalism these days

Inb4 paid by traditional car makers to beat kaw Tesla reputation

Elon no bother to reply nor comment

Twitter have lots of Tesla fan fights back liao 🤣

Yet many booked RM199k Tesla Model Y 🤣

alah, my ICE car also got reading on the driving range
when full tank it show 700km until next refill, but my actual record show it only last for 450km, i also relax, no complain wat...

I'll happily keep on rollin coal.

I am sorry, as I do not intend to bash Tesla.
I am concern about environment impact of EV cars : https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=5395278
Bio-diversity collapse will jeapordize our agriculture food security.
We already lost seafood : https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=5393229

You may not mind paying premium price for false ad claims and wrong timely service period, which can cause car breakdown, then you are right, no need to complain.

red_satu asked for a TLDR so I replied to red_satu's request.
Would you like to subscribe to Lowyat.net premium service ?

but he paiped Amber Heard

premium price? Tesla not even premium... it is just a 200k car only...

car breakdown? as long as the meter show the battery is going to flat or the petrol is going to run out correctly, it wont cause breakdown

Becoz u went and delete the post how to reply back? Also u not really answer wat i say and went off tangent about subscribe service

You are free to post comment without quoting TS main post.
TS will get alert when there are comments even without quote / direct reply.

As your comment was deleted, an answer is impossible.
Without answer, it is impossible to go off tangent.

Did our customer service answer your question?

This post has been deleted by Pikichu because: No need to quote TS post in page-1. Please provide report for your claim.

This post has been deleted by Pikichu because: No need to quote TS post in page-1. Happy Friday to you too.

What do you expect from Elon?

He just took to @x handle without paying a dime like a boss.

FUD hit piece, they are working with short sellers.

Elon once share a story, a tesla owner sued him for making the car smell so nice he fell asleep and knock into a cyclist. The fact loyar buruk can even file such suit shows how f up. Thank goodness the judge threw the case out.

See below, some people believe Tesla share price is premium.

Elon became billionaire by scamming consumers. Later he will blame people for being poor.

Hope you hit your target price.

Luckily this doesn't really impact Malaysia, unless our weather changes to ultra hot or ultra cold.

Eh.. that ponsin guy, buy 2nd hand tesla made 2021 then complain mileage not good? That is madness.

Will have complaints as well later because Malaysians already used to driving their myvi vios city alphard at 160-200 on the highway

They will surprised pikachu on how fast the battery will drain at speed anything above 110 speed limit

Hahaha you are right. Malaysian mentality won't change.

Ev manufacturer should come here and study our usage. Then only can build their cars to suit our driving pattern

Other drains on the battery include hilly terrain, headwinds, a driver’s lead foot and running the heating or air-conditioning inside the cabin.

This post has been deleted by Pikichu because: Elon Musk is god. He doesnt need to obey any country regulations.

ma man right there. yes

mao premium

it's this with the fine touchs.




23 speakers




body massage



air suspension



or go for their premium washing machine

See. White management always use propaganda to solve problem instead of better customer experience.

Holy wall of text batman

Thats not wat u said in the delete comment. Please recheck

so......when wanna sue perodua?

Tesla lied, exaggerate performance, collect on premium price, created a brand name.
So MY who already paid a premium, are affected.

Also Tesla raised lots of funds, build factories, requires more rare earth to manufacture more EV.
This damages environment sustainability and if its keeps going, ecosystem & biodiversity collapse will jeapordize our food security.
We already lost seafood : https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=5393229

Yes, then he send this 2nd hand for service, Tesla deny him, even more madness.
When he did sent in to service, Tesla did not look at car, just reject him, even more madness.

Even more madness is people who can read but refuse to read. Enjoy paying premium for lies and defective products.

+1 Welcome reader!

Don't be racist ler. Already Reuters expose Elon.

Perodua? or is it sarcasm which I do not understand without body language.

Fake news ler. Biden said angmoh product sure honest and quality one

no car's range is true
especially perodua
every model of perodua's reported range...none of it is real or archivable(not even close)

Good judge. Hope he gets to judge the Tesla car owners lawsuit against Tesla.

kafir

+1 funny

Deleted so many, which one to recheck... What is your question?

Yes honest and quality when made in ...

I said - one of the reason of range drop is due to cold, contextually in malaysia this is negligble rite? We dont have sub zero temps... Not a big factor

He brought his unit for service. Tesla denied him. When the unit did reach Tesla for service also they refuse to service the Tesla unit.
If you cannot tell if case is stupid or what.... not sure if you will understand if explained to you. Anyway Reuters investigate and report, up to you to read.

Yes, so that other /k tards can read and comment, not endless scrolling.

Billionaire made a fortune by cheating - capitalism free market they say.

+1 yet it is more useful for people considering to switch to an EV.

Yes, agree.
Yet car experts also noted that EV deteriorate in hill climb, over prolong use, you know common reasons - but Tesla rig the number.
Is cheating a big factor in MY - I let you decide.

Driving range is very very subjective la...many things affect the range of driving like road condition, wind, tyre quality, battery quality, weather, temperature, driving style, traffic....there are so many stuff can affect usage of battery / petrol.

In a country where road accidents are so common, I hope these EV batteries don't turn into a ball of flame

Jimmy Lin replied:


This post has been edited by killdavid: Jul 28 2023, 01:06 PM

you delete my reply, you pandan.

contribooting to KPI tered

nenek kebayan ask to put batteri AA in sun few days, can recharge! TS jgn ranjauuuuuuuu

This post has been edited by nasiputih: Jul 28 2023, 01:53 PM

TL;DR

not here to defend elon mush, but i think TS is smarter then elon mush. why still here ranting? and not become billionaire?

yelon mask has a lot of similarities to toni fernadez

percaya jangan

There's literally thousand of petrol car burns when crash into poles, including Paul Walker in Porsche. Nothing specially noteworthy here.

haha

i personally not into lexus, still prefer Porsche or BMW...

Sensational headlines that doesn't reflects the actual situation. Then some idiots ran with it.





Most probably the false range is due to driving and weather conditions.

However, to be fair, Tesla's method of handling these complaint should be questioned too.

it's better. no EV people are still buying cars. you don't fix a problem by forcing people to take bus if they don't want. you give them what they want, but a greener version. it works and is working

I watched the Thai review. As long as tesla red gets 400km per charge, it's good. You getting a camper, sports car, utility vehicle in a package. Can sleep without co poison worry. Enough said.

No issue our weather the best for Tesla

Advertised range is based on specific condition. Definitely not in cold weather. Same as ice cars.

haha, banyak troll

Muskrat Susie, Muskrat Sam
Do the jitterbug
Out in the muskrat land
And they shimmy
Sam is so skinny

~ Muskrat Love, Willis Alan Ramsey

problem is they never advertise saying your full tank can go up to 700km ma.

But Telsa, or all EV car manufacturers advertise it gao gao.

And Facebook new Twtitter is going to overtake One Dragon Musk

Go on~

/LOL

shut up and enjoy ur tesla please
people don't know and care about ur range

This post has been edited by WinkyJr: Jul 29 2023, 07:31 AM

Employing wumao to fight instead of spending that sum to produce a legit product for paying customer... deserves boycott.

Got video? PM

I expect seller to produce good quality product, not scam users with false advertising, rigged mileage and exaggerated price. Did I expect too much?

Yes, subjective. EPA has standard formula, most auto makers follow but Tesla rigged mileage tracking and use own formula. Do you approve of such scam for premium price?

AA battery is alkalline battery. Tesla battery is not the typical AA battery.
AS battery under the sun, but Tesla battery cannot be place directly under the sun.
If you charge your smartphone under the sun, the battery will also bubble up - risk explosion.

That's why I say, religion like believing nenek kebayan dumb you down.

Bruh, you too invested until reply me twice.

KEK

keji betul ni..

cakap tak serupa bikin

got lah, they advertise xL/100km

Honda City for your reference
https://www.honda.com.my/model/city/spec

Not a fan of EV but there's some propaganda against tesla made by some pissed off corpo

Yes, you brought up a good point about safety and fragility of EV batteries.

+1 Thank you.

1. Elon scam consumers: rigged car mileage, false ad, charge premium, lied to deny EV owner service.
2. Korea fined Telsa. EPA also instructed Tesla to correct some claims. Tesla continue to scam and exploit laws.
3. Would you pay a premium price EV for performance or scam ?

+1 Thank you for the compliment. I would not claim to be smarter than Elon.
Sharing awareness bcos we need a majority to sway gov't against capitalism exploits.
Capitalism strive for profit, exploits Earth and workers, if we fail, we may riot like France or eco-system collapse, lose our food security.

A man born on the same time and day as Bill Gates but different place, like MY, will not have the same American opportunities to become rich.

+1 Agree. We rely on smart people to spread the awareness, so that a majority can sway gov't to intervene when capitalists exploit consumers, workers and Earth.

you wont know it is from the consumer itself or the competitor

EV maker also trying to mask the safety concern that, EV may explode more easily compare with ICE car...

kesian
it happened all over the places
stop worrying car that havent arrive at your country

You cans start by going to KFC manager why give you so small chicken instead the one like the ads la

expect too much? well you can start tagging at KPDNKK instead opening terek at Lowyat
it wasted resources of hosting space and doesnt help much.

Biasa la
South Korea are protecting KIA & HYUNDAI
what are you expecting? They cucuk every car makers just to protect their own legacy.

Car brochures used to include *tested according to dont-know-what standard. at the fc figure.

Something like certain constant speed in a controlled environment. Meaning you can achieve it uf you match the test condition (a loophole, if you ask me).
But I have never seen any ice car brochure stating how many km range unlike EV.

Greener? but EV cars are not greener, evidence: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=5395278

Review based on rigged mileage, I guess people are desperate to rationalize what they paid for.

More Tesla cars means we can heatwave the world into MY weather
With pollution and global warming, we already lost seafood : https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=5393229

Tesla's claims is based on rigged mileage, using Tesla's method, not EPA calculations, and based on experts, Tesla is the worst among EV cars.
EV trains, bus, and bicycle are far superior in eco-friendly transport.

Orang komen support, kasi chan la. Dah support nanti boleh short sell Tesla share price = untung.

wall of text

u lost money on tesla stock issit?

EV cars are not greener, evidence: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=5395278

But EV very good for city. Less noise and smog pollution

Yes, EV bus and trains are good, and additionally no need to park, send for maintenance, risk of traffic violation & driving.

ICE car got tank capacity, the capacity + the FC will tell you the range, but why need the range, since it already give you the FC
and most of the time, you cant get the FC

so it is similar like the EV, dont divert the point, they are both same concept, if you still want to argue like that, then no point

Anticipating new ICE and EV policy. /K opinions expected to vary on its effectiveness and impact.

When 2022 launched ICE car, nobody gives a shit how many KM per tank, arguing 3pot or 4 pot in 1.5l engine

When 2023 launched EV car, "diu lei lou mou 500km ev range only, we want 1000km!"

This post has been edited by submergedx: Aug 2 2023, 10:18 AM