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 Steering Rack Lifespan and Failure Experiences

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lee82gx
post May 30 2023, 10:28 AM

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QUOTE(SportyHandling @ May 30 2023, 10:23 AM)
Thanks for all responses.

From the responses here so far, it's only with VW vehicles that show issues with the steering rack, and those issues are minor since it's knocking or clicking sound from the steering when going over uneven road.

Are there any severe cases of steering rack failures with other cars other than the Ford Focus mk3 whereby the steering wheel suddenly became very stiff without warning when the car is in motion on the road? To me, this is a serious safety flaw where the failure of the steering rack happens when the driver is still driving the vehicle on the road, and the driver is unable to control the vehicle anymore as the steering wheel is locked. Women or senior citizens will likely not be able to steer the vehicle to the emergency lane if this happens and it's a dangerous situation especially when the vehicle is on the highway with other vehicles traveling at high speed.
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Both issues you say are common with Honda cars (Civic for the past 2 generations, City for past 2 generations, Accord gen 9)
lee82gx
post May 30 2023, 12:38 PM

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QUOTE(SportyHandling @ May 30 2023, 10:35 AM)
Thanks for the information. Does this apply to the current Honda vehicles as well, Civic or City etc.? I wonder if car manufacturers or perhaps engineers can prevent this from happening as it's a serious safety issue. To me, this problem with the steering rack failing without warning thus causing the steering wheel to be very stiff has a high potential of creating an accident especially if the vehicle is on the highway.

I was guessing that this serious steering rack issue is only applicable to the Ford Focus mk3 model only but apparently Honda cars also have this problem.
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Civic - Current generation and previous.
City - GM6
Accord Gen 9

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/03/21/nhtsa-h...-investigation/

I can tell you from a perspective of "engineer". We take calculated risks, and sometimes we do not convey this risk in terms of RPN properly to management. In the name of cost, time and performance, a lot of design aspects related to reliability is short cutted. Often times we think the risk is 1 per million and it is well justified ie safe to ship. But we underestimate things and in reality the occurence is much much higher example 1000 per million. Then comes to the owh crap part.
Then, as management they also instruct the engineering teams to take more risks in the name of profit. You know where this goes.

Next, these subsystems are "reused" by other teams and projects and they are deemed extra safe to use because its been used for a long time "without issue". The problems goes unfixed for generations until another top engineer redesigns everything and thinks he is the smartest man alive, only to repeat the lessons not learned.

So, no, there are far too many examples of shit hitting the fan. Takata airbags come to mind.

Yes, it is a safety issue for steering to be sticky. If you ask me, there should be people being put into jail for these issues then perhaps someone will care. Look at recent Toyota side impact issue. Until now perodua pretends there is no problem, Daihatsu say there is no problem but Toyota chairman flying here and there and apologising up and down.
lee82gx
post May 30 2023, 01:26 PM

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That article is only the tip of the iceberg when comes to Civic.

If you ask me, a permanent failure of the EPS is just as dangerous as a temporary one and sometimes less of a headache to fix - just replace it.

FWIW, my Grand Livina with EPS, mfg year 2010 is still flawless driving until today with no issues, 140,000km (yes, low mileage).

I've also driven gen 1 myvi with hydraulic PS for decade+ without issue.

One thing for sure, is that an engineer with sufficient data (so many years have passed, they surely have it) and motivation can absolutely design a more reliable EPS than a hydraulic PS, simply because he can (the tools have flourished since then). But life is never straightforward in the real world. Again I speak from personal engineering experience, not related to automotive but close enough.
lee82gx
post May 30 2023, 07:16 PM

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QUOTE(SportyHandling @ May 30 2023, 04:22 PM)
My last vehicle with EPS was Nissan Sylphy 2.0 year 2008. I sold it just after 5 years with mileage 51,000km to a 2nd hand dealer, surprisingly with a good price. No issues whatsoever but then again it's fairly new with low mileage.

My older cars were Proton Preve Turbo and going back older Waja, both cars on hydraulic steering I believe and driven more than 10 years without any issues other than the Preve Turbo needing a gearbox replacement.

This Ford Focus mk3 is the first car I own after more than 30 years driving experience that has the steering rack failed while I'm still driving on the road. Imagine while still driving on the road and suddenly the steering wheel cannot be turned at all. Well, that's a bit of exaggeration as strong muscular guys will still be able to turn the steering wheel albeit needing them to use some of their brute strength. With ladies and older seniors, chances are they won't have the strength to steer the vehicle to the emergency lane thus forcing them to stop the vehicle in the middle of the road if the unfortunate happens. In this situation, it's really dangerous especially when it's on clear highways where other vehicles are moving at high speed.

Can understand that all decisions are mostly if not entirely commercial driven as engineering just follow behind.
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Like I said if someone goes to jail, then it will be taken seriously. Until then it gets swept under the carpet. Takata airbags, VW dieselgate, Kobe steel, bearings, Boeing 737, dc-10. Not one engineer or QA or even executive goes to jail, lives have been lost!
lee82gx
post May 31 2023, 01:16 PM

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QUOTE(constant_weight @ May 31 2023, 01:02 PM)
For car enthusiasts, now Civic turbo got no competition since Hyundai stop selling Elantra Sport, Ford stop selling Ecoboost Focus, and VW stop selling 1.8 TSI Passat (some jump on price, but still sub-200k).

Until Toyota decide to put a detune 1.6 turbo 3-pots about 200hp to regular Altis, it is still no competition for Civic turbo.

What do we have if want to upgrade from Civic turbo, without horsepower deficit? Golf GTi? 320i? 2023 BRZ? All are 200k+ car.

stray bullet - 208GTi/308GTi, are they still selling or even if yes how many dare to buy?
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Toyota can easily fit in the NA 2L dynamic force engine M20, it is a simple drop in. For around the same price as the archaic 1.8L we have today, I will snap it up without hesitation and dump my Civic. Alas, its the South East Asia strategy to hamper itself in this segment, perhaps to sell more SUV's.
lee82gx
post May 31 2023, 01:52 PM

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QUOTE(constant_weight @ May 31 2023, 01:28 PM)
Too wishful. UMW more likely to fit a low tuned Atkinson cycle of M20  doh.gif
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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ May 31 2023, 01:29 PM)
No it's not a simple drop in.
It's a drive train revamp with the direct shift CVT gearbox that was issued recalls (UMWT quiet oh laugh.gif )

And that dynamic force 2.0 NA still PALES compared to Civic 's 1.5T.
The main goal for dynamic force is still fuel economy -
similarly to Mazda SkyActiv regardless how many marketing bullshit they want to force down our throats.

and this is coming from a NA engine bias enthusiast.
What gap? those 2 jointly built cars are also for hardcore with very high price.
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I mean at least its not as if they need to do RND. The Corolla with 2.0 M20 engine already exists in many other production lines, only not in the Thailand line.... Of course I don't mean it is as straightforward as aftermarket change (mountings, GB, drive train all ready).
I for one, do not mind less power, less kick, less torque than the Civic. ohmy.gif I just want something that is not as sedate as the current 1.8L, it is very sleepy at low RPM and CVT never lets you get to very high RPMS anyway, and by then the noise sucky.

 

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