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 AHAM Capital, (Formally Affin Hwang Asset Management)

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TSeggplants
post Mar 22 2023, 05:00 PM, updated 3y ago

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Any members here part of AHAM Capital or have invested with them?
SUS2feidei
post Mar 22 2023, 05:03 PM

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Yes, PRS
Cubalagi
post Mar 22 2023, 05:31 PM

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Yes, client.

nexona88
post Mar 22 2023, 05:39 PM

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QUOTE(eggplants @ Mar 22 2023, 05:00 PM)
Any members here part of AHAM Capital or have invested with them?
*
Any problem?

Or u want to know some of their products
xander2k8
post Mar 22 2023, 08:14 PM

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QUOTE(eggplants @ Mar 22 2023, 05:00 PM)
Any members here part of AHAM Capital or have invested with them?
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No issue just stay away from their bonds only
Aaron212
post Mar 22 2023, 08:41 PM

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Cookie101
post Mar 22 2023, 09:45 PM

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Are u referring to some bond series specifically? Otherwise not much of issue.

The bond currently suspended from trading but still accruing interest. Waiting to see what is their next step.

All bonds have this kind of risk.
xander2k8
post Mar 23 2023, 03:32 AM

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QUOTE(Cookie101 @ Mar 22 2023, 09:45 PM)
Are u referring to some bond series specifically? Otherwise not much of issue.

The bond currently suspended from trading but still accruing interest. Waiting to see what is their next step.

All bonds have this kind of risk.
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When the bond series suspended by AHAM it still has a nominal value of at least 30% value coupled with 15% of portfolio in cash hence it still have value of close to 50%

The next step is to claim back the nominal value from FINMA and CS only will only process the bond value either through swap or payoff from CS which only happens once the merger is completed by September
aurora97
post Mar 23 2023, 12:37 PM

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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Mar 23 2023, 03:32 AM)
When the bond series suspended by AHAM it still has a nominal value of at least 30% value coupled with 15% of portfolio in cash hence it still have value of close to 50%

The next step is to claim back the nominal value from FINMA and CS only will only process the bond value either through swap or payoff from CS which only happens once the merger is completed by September
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Referring to the item in bold, how do you derive this values?

FINMA has indicated that the bond value for AT1 is write down to ZERO. Did FINMA say that the AT1 holders will get something??

https://www.ft.com/content/3f405e6d-d4a3-46...ba-3ec9cf4f7054
xander2k8
post Mar 23 2023, 12:55 PM

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QUOTE(aurora97 @ Mar 23 2023, 12:37 PM)
Referring to the item in bold, how do you derive this values?

FINMA has indicated that the bond value for AT1 is write down to ZERO. Did FINMA say that the AT1 holders will get something??

https://www.ft.com/content/3f405e6d-d4a3-46...ba-3ec9cf4f7054
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30% is based on the last traded value from AHAM and they have stated in the press statement that the fund has 15% in cash

FINMA only indicated the value is Zero meaning the losses is being write down but the bonds are still having a nominal value because it is not completely zero because the write down is only the losses but not the value of the paper πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

At the end of the day it is up to CS to decide what course of action being taken on whether bond swaps, new bonds issuance or equity swap with the blessing of SNB
aurora97
post Mar 23 2023, 02:10 PM

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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Mar 23 2023, 12:55 PM)
30% is based on the last traded value from AHAM and they have stated in the press statement that the fund has 15% in cash

FINMA only indicated the value is Zero meaning the losses is being write down but the bonds are still having a nominal value because it is not completely zero because the write down is only the losses but not the value of the paper πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

At the end of the day it is up to CS to decide what course of action being taken on whether bond swaps, new bonds issuance or equity swap with the blessing of SNB
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Press statement, do you have a link? Their communique didn't mention anything about that.

I am skeptical about what you mention, paper loss, as it seems its a total loss based on most major financial media reportings.

In any case, its academic now, will see how it plays out.
xander2k8
post Mar 23 2023, 04:27 PM

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QUOTE(aurora97 @ Mar 23 2023, 02:10 PM)
Press statement, do you have a link? Their communique didn't mention anything about that.

I am skeptical about what you mention, paper loss, as it seems its a total loss based on most major financial media reportings.

In any case, its academic now, will see how it plays out.
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https://www.theedgemarkets.com/node/659947

You need to check Bloomberg because the value is still there before suspension

It is still not total loss because it is not a realised loss until they totally liquidate completely πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

FINMA is actually forcing some party to carry losses and that party will have to decide what to do with it whether to write down or not hence why UBS is asking for liquidity guarantee or backstop in order to hold losses

UBS already requested 9billion earlier from SNB to cover at least 60% but it is still pending

Sometimes you need to take media reporting me with pinch of a salt as they tend overblown it πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

Just wait for UBS statement on what they do next within this 6 months upon merger
TSeggplants
post Mar 23 2023, 04:47 PM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Mar 22 2023, 05:39 PM)
Any problem?

Or u want to know some of their products
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Would like to know anyone have used them and their experience dealing with them. Is there minimum amount of capital for using them?
aurora97
post Mar 23 2023, 04:58 PM

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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Mar 23 2023, 04:27 PM)
https://www.theedgemarkets.com/node/659947

You need to check Bloomberg because the value is still there before suspension

It is still not total loss because it is not a realised loss until they totally liquidate completely πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

FINMA is actually forcing some party to carry losses and that party will have to decide what to do with it whether to write down or not hence why UBS is asking for liquidity guarantee or backstop in order to hold losses

UBS already requested 9billion earlier from SNB to cover at least 60% but it is still pending

Sometimes you need to take media reporting me with pinch of a salt as they tend overblown it πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

Just wait for UBS statement on what they do next within this 6 months upon merger
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Not everyone has visibility but its not wrong to ask and take it the wrong way.

The factsheet at at 28 Feb 23 for both series 2 and 4 states 95.6%(AT1)/4.4%(Cash) and 95.7%(AT1)/4.3%(cash) respectively. hmm.gif ... Also, what about the FX forward intended for hedging, the bank would have pulled the credit line and unwind FX forward.

Still highly doubtful that AT1 investors will get anything (even though paper value suggest otherwise), if it is open and shut, folks like Lazard, Pimco, Artemis won't be launching a suit over the shotgun marriage made by FINMA and UBS.

Definitely, exciting times.
xander2k8
post Mar 23 2023, 05:17 PM

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QUOTE(aurora97 @ Mar 23 2023, 04:58 PM)
Not everyone has visibility but its not wrong to ask and take it the wrong way.

The factsheet at at 28 Feb 23 for both series 2 and 4 states 95.6%(AT1)/4.4%(Cash) and 95.7%(AT1)/4.3%(cash) respectively.  hmm.gif ... Also, what about the FX forward intended for hedging, the bank would have pulled the credit line and unwind FX forward.

Still highly doubtful that AT1 investors will get anything (even though paper value suggest otherwise), if it is open and shut, folks like Lazard, Pimco, Artemis won't be launching a suit over the shotgun marriage made by FINMA and UBS.

Definitely,  exciting times.
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The fund fact sheet was taken by end of Feb hence there is lagged of 15 days on what did AHAM hence they might have liquidate some of the bonds which they are able to cut the losses and shore up the cash pile to 15%

PimCo is launching suit because they are holding most of the AT1s by CS and the suit is alleged because there is clause between them and it was breach of certain clause that triggers the suit

Just wait for next month meeting from FINMA and SNB to see the actual scale because I got a gut feeling now they are liquidating some of the gold reserves to shore the liquidity in this crisis

This wouldn’t have happen if the other SNB would have extend another line of credit to CS and now they are bearing a billion in losses just on the equities holding πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

This post has been edited by xander2k8: Mar 23 2023, 05:18 PM
Cubalagi
post Mar 23 2023, 06:59 PM

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QUOTE(eggplants @ Mar 23 2023, 04:47 PM)
Would like to know anyone have used them and their experience dealing with them. Is there minimum amount of capital for using them?
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Aham is a large Malaysian asset manager offering many types of products. So the minimum amount is dependant on the product you are investing in.

Lowest I think would be their PRS fund with minimum of RM100 as initial investment. Their unit trust is RM1000.

Highest would be if you buy a wholesale bond with them. That would be like minimum USD200,000 for a USD wholesale bond.

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Mar 23 2023, 06:59 PM
xander2k8
post Mar 23 2023, 08:00 PM

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QUOTE(eggplants @ Mar 23 2023, 04:47 PM)
Would like to know anyone have used them and their experience dealing with them. Is there minimum amount of capital for using them?
*
So far so good as their CS is quite efficient in getting back to you if you have any enquires in the morning and by afternoon will sort it out easily

Minimum is at RM10 for MMF to certain UTs at 100 to 250k minimum for wholesale bond

Downside if no promo or vouchers be prepared to pay high SC πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ
plc255
post Mar 23 2023, 09:39 PM

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QUOTE(aurora97 @ Mar 23 2023, 04:58 PM)

Definitely,  exciting times.
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Swiss regulator defends $17bn wipeout of AT1 bonds in Credit Suisse deal

QUOTE
The additional tier 1 (AT1) bonds in question contained explicit contractual language that they would be β€œcompletely written down in a β€˜viability event’ in particular if extraordinary government support is granted”, Finma said. This allowed the regulator to prioritise equity holders ahead of AT1 holders.
QUOTE
β€œ[The] instruments in Switzerland are designed in such a way that they are written down or converted into [equity] before the equity capital of the bank concerned is completely used up or written down,” it said, pointing out that the bonds were designed for the use of sophisticated institutional investors because of their risky hybrid nature.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

csbong87
post Apr 3 2023, 06:33 AM

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bought AHAM single bond series 4 through CIMB
xander2k8
post Apr 3 2023, 07:54 AM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 3 2023, 06:33 AM)
bought AHAM single bond series 4 through CIMB
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No news from CIMB on when the fund suspension is being lifted?
csbong87
post Apr 3 2023, 11:12 AM

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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Apr 3 2023, 07:54 AM)
No news from CIMB on when the fund suspension is being lifted?
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ranting.gif bangwall.gif mad.gif
Cubalagi
post Apr 3 2023, 11:28 AM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 3 2023, 11:12 AM)
ranting.gif  bangwall.gif  mad.gif
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Wish u all the best πŸ‘Œ

csbong87
post Apr 3 2023, 11:53 AM

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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ Apr 3 2023, 11:28 AM)
Wish u all the best πŸ‘Œ
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Tq thumbsup.gif
csbong87
post Apr 3 2023, 12:12 PM

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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Mar 23 2023, 03:32 AM)
When the bond series suspended by AHAM it still has a nominal value of at least 30% value coupled with 15% of portfolio in cash hence it still have value of close to 50%

The next step is to claim back the nominal value from FINMA and CS only will only process the bond value either through swap or payoff from CS which only happens once the merger is completed by September
*
what about AHAM Single bond series 2 and 4 ?
xander2k8
post Apr 3 2023, 02:53 PM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 3 2023, 12:12 PM)
what about AHAM Single bond series 2 and 4 ?
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I wouldn’t know because I didn’t buy any of those bonds anyway
csbong87
post Apr 10 2023, 03:56 AM

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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Apr 3 2023, 02:53 PM)
I wouldn’t know because I didn’t buy any of those bonds anyway
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Despite of Credit Suisse Bond writing down to "ZERO" (NO VALUE AT ALL), below info of AHAM SINGLE BOND SERIES 4(Product Highlights Sheet) and Screenshot of CIMB Clicks web (UT Account section)

Following info extract from one of AHAMs document:

Document source link: https://aham.com.my/invest-with-us/list-of-...tails?q=SBS4HCF

KEY PRODUCT FEATURES:

Investment Strategy:
The Fund will be investing directly into a single-credit bond. The remaining NAV of the Fund will
be in money market instruments, deposits, derivatives, and/or any other form of investments as
may be determined by the Manager from time to time that is in line with the Fund’s objective. The
Fund may invest in foreign market.

Asset Allocation
β€’ A minimum of 60% of the Fund’s NAV to be invested in bond; and
β€’ A maximum of 40% of the Fund’s NAV to be invested in money market instrument and/or
deposits..

Following screenshot from CIMB Clicks:

As per app last NAV Price was 0.3056 @ 17 MAC 2023, with Unrealized ROI (%) -70.02

user posted image

I still see numbers under FUND MARKET VALUE
xander2k8
post Apr 10 2023, 10:43 AM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 10 2023, 03:56 AM)
Despite of Credit Suisse Bond writing down to "ZERO" (NO VALUE AT ALL), below info of AHAM SINGLE BOND SERIES 4(Product Highlights Sheet) and Screenshot of CIMB Clicks web (UT Account section)

Following info extract from one of AHAMs document:

Document source link: https://aham.com.my/invest-with-us/list-of-...tails?q=SBS4HCF

KEY PRODUCT FEATURES:

Investment Strategy:
The Fund will be investing directly into a single-credit bond. The remaining NAV of the Fund will
be in money market instruments, deposits, derivatives, and/or any other form of investments as
may be determined by the Manager from time to time that is in line with the Fund’s objective. The
Fund may invest in foreign market.

Asset Allocation
β€’ A minimum of 60% of the Fund’s NAV to be invested in bond; and
β€’ A maximum of 40% of the Fund’s NAV to be invested in money market instrument and/or
deposits..

Following screenshot from CIMB Clicks:

As per app last NAV Price was 0.3056 @ 17 MAC 2023, with Unrealized ROI (%) -70.02

user posted image

I still see numbers under FUND MARKET VALUE
*
Which means you just lose 70% which they allocate to AT1 bonds while 30% is still in MMF or liquid deposits
csbong87
post Apr 11 2023, 05:31 AM

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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Apr 10 2023, 10:43 AM)
Which means you just lose 70% which they allocate to AT1 bonds while 30% is still in MMF or liquid deposits
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Thanks for the reply, btw how can I file a complain against my CIMB banker for not following clients instructions for liquidating the fund (Called and met numerous occasions, when NAV was around 80 cents). He blames AHAM instead. any advice ?
MUM
post Apr 11 2023, 05:41 AM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 11 2023, 05:31 AM)
Thanks for the reply, btw how can I file a complain against my CIMB banker for not following clients instructions for liquidating the fund (Called and met numerous occasions, when NAV was around 80 cents). He blames AHAM instead. any advice ?
*
Just asking, ....do you still hv documented evidence of communication or instruction to liquidate that fund when nav was still at 0.80?
xander2k8
post Apr 11 2023, 11:53 AM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 11 2023, 05:31 AM)
Thanks for the reply, btw how can I file a complain against my CIMB banker for not following clients instructions for liquidating the fund (Called and met numerous occasions, when NAV was around 80 cents). He blames AHAM instead. any advice ?
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Did you have any written standing instruction as proof of execution?

Verbal would be very hard to proof

He has the right to blame AHAM because he can instruct but execution by the fund house itself

This is why never ever buy from 3rd party particularly banks because it is out their hands unlike buying direct from the fund house where you locked in the projected price
Cubalagi
post Apr 11 2023, 12:03 PM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 11 2023, 05:31 AM)
Thanks for the reply, btw how can I file a complain against my CIMB banker for not following clients instructions for liquidating the fund (Called and met numerous occasions, when NAV was around 80 cents). He blames AHAM instead. any advice ?
*
You make the complaint to the bank official channel first. Go check cimb website for how to complaint. The bank will be obligated to respond.

Draft your complaint properly. Maybe get a lawyer friend to help draft it. Get ready supporting documents.

Other than not following instructions, was there also misseling? A lot of bankers get away with misselling financial products without properly informing client of the risk.

If not happy with the Bank response then can go to BNM, SC and or Financial Ombudsman for further action.



csbong87
post Apr 11 2023, 02:26 PM

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Replying to respondents of the forum members. I have file a complaint via CIMB's CRU unit regarding this and certain Rules and ACT that the banker did not follow.

A meeting was made on 27/03/2023 with representative from AHAM, Regional Director, Investment Specialist and Branch Manager of CIMB, but non unable to reply when questioned the rights of liquidating and baring the cost of loses.
MUM
post Apr 11 2023, 02:37 PM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 11 2023, 02:26 PM)
Replying to respondents of the forum members. I have file a complaint via CIMB's CRU unit regarding this and certain Rules and ACT that the banker did not follow.

A meeting was made on 27/03/2023 with representative from AHAM, Regional Director, Investment Specialist and Branch Manager of CIMB, but non unable to reply when questioned the rights of liquidating and baring the cost of loses.
*
They just kept quite when asked? Or they gives answers which you think is not answering it?

Dud you question them again?
csbong87
post Apr 11 2023, 02:50 PM

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QUOTE(MUM @ Apr 11 2023, 02:37 PM)
They just kept quite when asked? Or they gives answers which you think is not answering it?

Dud you question them again?
*
Pending CIMB's CRU unit to reply my E-Mail. Kept quite when asked during the meeting regarding rights of liquidating and who's going to bare the loses.
xander2k8
post Apr 11 2023, 02:59 PM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 11 2023, 02:26 PM)
Replying to respondents of the forum members. I have file a complaint via CIMB's CRU unit regarding this and certain Rules and ACT that the banker did not follow.

A meeting was made on 27/03/2023 with representative from AHAM, Regional Director, Investment Specialist and Branch Manager of CIMB, but non unable to reply when questioned the rights of liquidating and baring the cost of loses.
*
Ask for follow up come Sept

QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 11 2023, 02:50 PM)
Pending CIMB's CRU unit to reply my E-Mail. Kept quite when asked during the meeting regarding rights of liquidating and who's going to bare the loses.
*
You should check the prospectus and see whether you got any loopholes or your rights as the deed holders to question them bank

Suggest find some one in the legal field who does legal banking for advise on the prospectus itself

Seems the meeting itself was show to shift the blame to AHAM but the banker himself know that he is the wrong for not executing your standing instructions

AHAM can’t answer you that much unless the Investment Board or fund manager who can give you a better answer on the liquidation

Only Stashaway can answer with the similar situation with KWEB debacle last year πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ
-TcT-
post Apr 11 2023, 03:52 PM

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their ETF products are also suspended & no longer traded
xander2k8
post Apr 11 2023, 04:06 PM

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QUOTE(-TcT- @ Apr 11 2023, 03:52 PM)
their ETF products are also suspended & no longer traded
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Not all ETFs πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ only those leveraged and inverses is affected

China, Gold and Reits is still trading on their market
csbong87
post Apr 11 2023, 04:55 PM

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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Apr 11 2023, 02:59 PM)
Ask for follow up come Sept
You should check the prospectus and see whether you got any loopholes or your rights as the deed holders to question them bank

Suggest find some one in the legal field who does legal banking for advise on the prospectus itself

Seems the meeting itself was show to shift the blame to AHAM but the banker himself know that he is the wrong for not executing your standing instructions

AHAM can’t answer you that much unless the Investment Board or fund manager who can give you a better answer on the liquidation

Only Stashaway can answer with the similar situation with KWEB debacle last year πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ
*
Below paragraph extracted from AHAMs PRODUCT HIGHLIGHT SHEET for AHAM Single Bond Series 4 (Formerly known as Affin Hwang Single Bond Series 4):

"5. What are the possible outcomes of my investment?
This Fund is a wholesale bond fund that invests primarily in a single-credit bond. The performance of the Fund would be
dependent on the bond that the Fund invests in. The Fund’s performance is reliant on the Manager’s expertise in managing
the Fund to meet its objective.

Unlike fixed deposits which generally provide a guarantee on capital invested and carry specific rate of return, the Fund’s
investment into the bond does not provide a guarantee on capital
contributed nor does it guarantee a fixed rate
of return."

The Fund endeavours to distribute income, if any, on an annual basis. However, the amount of income available for
distribution may fluctuate from year to year.

Document source link: https://aham.com.my/invest-with-us/list-of-...tails?q=SBS4HCF

Different from what our CIMB's bank manager says regarding on capital guarantee.

xander2k8
post Apr 11 2023, 05:10 PM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 11 2023, 04:55 PM)
Below paragraph extracted from AHAMs PRODUCT HIGHLIGHT SHEET for AHAM Single Bond Series 4 (Formerly known as Affin Hwang Single Bond Series 4):

"5. What are the possible outcomes of my investment?
This Fund is a wholesale bond fund that invests primarily in a single-credit bond. The performance of the Fund would be
dependent on the bond that the Fund invests in. The Fund’s performance is reliant on the Manager’s expertise in managing
the Fund to meet its objective.

Unlike fixed deposits which generally provide a guarantee on capital invested and carry specific rate of return, the Fund’s
investment into the bond does not provide a guarantee on capital
contributed nor does it guarantee a fixed rate
of return."

The Fund endeavours to distribute income, if any, on an annual basis. However, the amount of income available for
distribution may fluctuate from year to year.

Document source link: https://aham.com.my/invest-with-us/list-of-...tails?q=SBS4HCF

Different from what our CIMB's bank manager says regarding on capital guarantee.
*
Standard fund disclaimer hence it is already proven that the fault is not in AHAM hands

Do you have any written or actual recorded verbal communication on capital guarantee as you can file a civil claim against the bank manager and CIMB for product disclosure return misleading and confusing to customers?

Most likely you have file via tribunal 1st and if the tribunal is not able to make a decision satisfactory to both parties then you drag to civil court claim

Make them feel the pain for product and putting customer negligence on handling of your funds and only worth it if you are talking of losses more than tm100k which I am sure it is even higher

Cubalagi
post Apr 11 2023, 05:16 PM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 11 2023, 04:55 PM)
Below paragraph extracted from AHAMs PRODUCT HIGHLIGHT SHEET for AHAM Single Bond Series 4 (Formerly known as Affin Hwang Single Bond Series 4):

"5. What are the possible outcomes of my investment?
This Fund is a wholesale bond fund that invests primarily in a single-credit bond. The performance of the Fund would be
dependent on the bond that the Fund invests in. The Fund’s performance is reliant on the Manager’s expertise in managing
the Fund to meet its objective.

Unlike fixed deposits which generally provide a guarantee on capital invested and carry specific rate of return, the Fund’s
investment into the bond does not provide a guarantee on capital
contributed nor does it guarantee a fixed rate
of return."

The Fund endeavours to distribute income, if any, on an annual basis. However, the amount of income available for
distribution may fluctuate from year to year.

Document source link: https://aham.com.my/invest-with-us/list-of-...tails?q=SBS4HCF

Different from what our CIMB's bank manager says regarding on capital guarantee.
*
Did cimb represent to you a capital guarantee?


This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Apr 11 2023, 05:17 PM
csbong87
post Apr 11 2023, 05:57 PM

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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Apr 11 2023, 05:10 PM)
Standard fund disclaimer hence it is already proven that the fault is not in AHAM hands

Do you have any written or actual recorded verbal communication on capital guarantee as you can file a civil claim against the bank manager and CIMB for product disclosure return misleading and confusing to customers?

Most likely you have file via tribunal 1st and if the tribunal is not able to make a decision satisfactory to both parties then you drag to civil court claim

Make them feel the pain for product and putting customer negligence on handling of your funds and only worth it if you are talking of losses more than tm100k which I am sure it is even higher
*
No written or recorded verbal communication on our CIMB's bank manager says that bond principal is guaranteed.
csbong87
post Apr 12 2023, 07:31 AM

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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ Apr 11 2023, 05:16 PM)
Did cimb represent to you a capital guarantee?
*
Given only the below document, but did not disclose AHAM's side on capital not guaranteed as stated in it's PRODUCT HIGHLIGHTS SHEET for AHAM Single Bond Series 4 (Formerly known as Affin Hwang Single Bond Series 4)

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This post has been edited by csbong87: Apr 12 2023, 07:36 AM
MUM
post Apr 12 2023, 07:48 AM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 12 2023, 07:31 AM)
Given only the below document, but did not disclose AHAM's side on capital not guaranteed as stated in it's PRODUCT HIGHLIGHTS SHEET for AHAM Single Bond Series 4 (Formerly known as Affin Hwang Single Bond Series 4)

user posted image
*
Sorry, just kay poh and just for talking kok only.

Do you mean the word "back to par value" written on that paper?
I think this is none admissive legally, as there is no company chop, no name of person writing it, etc etc.
And also it did highlight Feb 2027, ...so have to wait till then to be back to value?

Cubalagi
post Apr 12 2023, 09:18 AM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 12 2023, 07:31 AM)
Given only the below document, but did not disclose AHAM's side on capital not guaranteed as stated in it's PRODUCT HIGHLIGHTS SHEET for AHAM Single Bond Series 4 (Formerly known as Affin Hwang Single Bond Series 4)

user posted image
*
So the bank did not share with you the Aham prodict disclsoure sheet?

I think you should still complaint on the basis of misleading sales practice as you were not made fully aware of the risk of the product, in addition to the not following instructions to liquidate.

Right now follow up on the banks response.

After that, if unsatisfactory, get ready to escalate to the relevant authorities.


xander2k8
post Apr 12 2023, 11:44 AM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 11 2023, 05:57 PM)
No written or recorded verbal communication on our CIMB's bank manager says that bond principal is guaranteed.
*
Then you can file an internal dispute with CIMB via CRU

If not next steps report BNM if CIMB cannot give satisfactory answer

There is so much you can do and a learn lesson to be learn never buy any financial products from a 3rd party and buy it as directly as possible to avoid such thing whenever bad things happened
xander2k8
post Apr 12 2023, 11:49 AM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 12 2023, 07:31 AM)
Given only the below document, but did not disclose AHAM's side on capital not guaranteed as stated in it's PRODUCT HIGHLIGHTS SHEET for AHAM Single Bond Series 4 (Formerly known as Affin Hwang Single Bond Series 4)

user posted image
*
Wah before you bought it you never check the rating itself it is already red flagged as it shown on your sheet πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

QUOTE(Cubalagi @ Apr 12 2023, 09:18 AM)
So the bank did not share with you the Aham prodict disclsoure sheet?

I think you should still complaint on the basis of misleading sales practice as you were not made fully aware of the risk of the product, in addition to the not following instructions to liquidate.

Right now follow up on the banks response.

After that, if unsatisfactory, get ready to escalate to the relevant authorities.
*
Not possible now because the proof of product mislead πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

The CIMB officer itself confuse him to submit the bond based on what he is shown and practice from this discussions

The red flagged itself was the bond rating which in hindsight it should be check and verified before buying it especially those in B range rating which can be very confusing itself
csbong87
post Apr 12 2023, 12:09 PM

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QUOTE(MUM @ Apr 12 2023, 07:48 AM)
Sorry, just kay poh and just for talking kok only.

Do you mean the word "back to par value" written on that paper?
I think this is none admissive legally, as there is no company chop, no name of person writing it, etc etc.
And also it did highlight Feb 2027, ...so have to wait till then to be back to value?
*
Ya, because it's a bank and it's CIMB and it's what the bank manager said to us.
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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 12 2023, 12:09 PM)
Ya, because it's a bank and it's CIMB and it's what the bank manager said to us.
*
Because the CIMB thinks that perpetual bonds are safe and won’t defaults πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

Be careful as well next time because nothing last forever as perpetual bonds are risky as well
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post Apr 14 2023, 07:13 AM

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post Apr 14 2023, 07:36 AM

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What to do if you suspect a mis-selling has occurred?
https://www.sidrec.com.my/publications/guid...ssion-malaysia/



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csbong87
post Apr 14 2023, 10:10 AM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 14 2023, 10:10 AM)
user posted image
*
Pressure AHAM to join the lawsuit

Even if Swiss Parliament votes against the merger no point because the regulator have the final say πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ
csbong87
post Apr 17 2023, 03:08 PM

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Alerting forum members whose friends or relative that has purchased AHAM SINGLE BOND SERIES 2 AND 4 through CIMB to kindly leave a contact info, we are forming a WhatsApp group to keep each other updates relating to this recent bond write off to zero. Thanks.
Cubalagi
post Apr 17 2023, 03:47 PM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 17 2023, 03:08 PM)
Alerting forum members whose friends or relative that has purchased AHAM SINGLE BOND SERIES 2 AND 4 through CIMB to kindly leave a contact info, we are forming a WhatsApp group to keep each other updates relating to this recent bond write off to zero. Thanks.
*
Many Japanese holders with this CS bond

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/202...peout#xj4y7vzkg

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Apr 17 2023, 03:48 PM
csbong87
post Apr 17 2023, 04:58 PM

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https://chng.it/DmjfcnLDDg

4 have signed. Let’s get to 5!


This post has been edited by csbong87: Apr 17 2023, 04:58 PM
xander2k8
post Apr 21 2023, 05:11 PM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 17 2023, 03:08 PM)
Alerting forum members whose friends or relative that has purchased AHAM SINGLE BOND SERIES 2 AND 4 through CIMB to kindly leave a contact info, we are forming a WhatsApp group to keep each other updates relating to this recent bond write off to zero. Thanks.
*
Finally lawsuit is in already suing the regulators

https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/cr...-ft-2023-04-21/
csbong87
post Apr 23 2023, 04:51 PM

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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Apr 21 2023, 05:11 PM)
Finally lawsuit is in already suing the regulators

https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/cr...-ft-2023-04-21/
*
AHAM filing lawsuit ?
xander2k8
post Apr 23 2023, 04:56 PM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 23 2023, 04:51 PM)
AHAM filing lawsuit ?
*
Not sure AHAM is in the court filings but I doubt because if they do CVC would have filed it already

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post Apr 23 2023, 05:02 PM

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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Apr 23 2023, 04:56 PM)
Not sure AHAM is in the court filings but I doubt because if they do CVC would have filed it already
*
AHAM no money to file lawsuit ?
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post Apr 23 2023, 05:13 PM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 23 2023, 05:02 PM)
AHAM no money to file lawsuit ?
*
You should pose the question to them πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

Firstly are they direct holders of the AT1 bonds or through are other means and if they are is the bonds still in their holdings or has been sold and written off as losses as you and I won’t know unless they have disclosed it publicly

Filing this lawsuit is not just about the money πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ It is whether you have the legal expertise to fight this in Swiss courts which is why those big foreign institutions like in US and Japan are banding to fight it in those courts
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post Apr 23 2023, 05:18 PM

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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Apr 23 2023, 05:13 PM)
You should pose the question to them πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

Firstly are they direct holders of the AT1 bonds or through are other means and if they are is the bonds still in their holdings or has been sold and written off as losses as you and I won’t know unless they have disclosed it publicly

Filing this lawsuit is not just about the money πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ It is whether you have the legal expertise to fight this in Swiss courts which is why those big foreign institutions like in US and Japan are banding to fight it in those courts
*
so what is CIMB Malaysia and AHAM doing ? waiting the news to spread like fire to the whole nation ?
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post Apr 23 2023, 06:32 PM

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Extract from CC FINAL TERM SHEET (ISIN: USH3698DDA93)

USD 1,500,000,000
5.250% PERPETUAL TIER 1 CONTINGENT WRITE-DOWN CAPITAL NOTES (THE β€œNOTES”)
FINAL TERM SHEET


Joint Lead Managers:
Banco Bilbao Vizcaya Argentaria, S.A.
Natixis Securities Americas LLC
UniCredit Bank AG
Santander Investment Securities Inc.
Scotia Capital (USA) Inc.
Wells Fargo Securities, LLC

Co-Managers:
ABN AMRO Securities (USA) LLC
CIBC World Markets Corp.
ING Financial Markets LLC
NatWest Markets Securities Inc.
Rabo Securities USA, Inc
SG Americas Securities, LLC
TD Securities (USA) LLC
Banco de Sabadell, S.A.
BMO Capital Markets Corp.
BNY Mellon Capital Markets, LLC
CaixaBank, S.A.
Capital One Securities, Inc.
Citigroup Global Markets Inc.
Citizens Capital Markets, Inc.
Danske Bank A/S
Deutsche Bank Securities Inc.
HSBC Securities (USA) Inc.
Landesbank Baden-WΓΌrttemberg
Lloyds Bank Corporate Markets Wertpapierhandelsbank GmbH
Morgan Stanley & Co. LLC
Nordea Bank Abp
RBC Capital Markets, LLC
Standard Chartered Bank
xander2k8
post Apr 23 2023, 06:53 PM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 23 2023, 05:18 PM)
so what is CIMB Malaysia and AHAM doing ? waiting the news to spread like fire to the whole nation ?
*
Then you should pose the question the fund house πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

CIMB will easily absolve its responsibility because they are only just fund distributor
csbong87
post Apr 24 2023, 01:15 AM

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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Apr 23 2023, 06:53 PM)
Then you should pose the question the fund house πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

CIMB will easily absolve its responsibility because they are only just fund distributor
*
it is the Relationship manager from CIMB that guarantees principal return upon call date of the bond.
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post Apr 24 2023, 02:18 AM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 24 2023, 01:15 AM)
it is the Relationship manager from CIMB that guarantees principal return upon call date of the bond.
*
The relationship manager from CIMB misled you πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ no one can guarantee the principal other than issuers themselves πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ
csbong87
post Apr 24 2023, 07:50 AM

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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Apr 24 2023, 02:18 AM)
The relationship manager from CIMB misled you πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ no one can guarantee the principal other than issuers themselves πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ
*
What actions needed to be taken against this relationship manager from CIMB ? since he says the bond capital is guaranteed.

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post Apr 24 2023, 03:32 PM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 24 2023, 07:50 AM)
What actions needed to be taken against this relationship manager from CIMB ? since he says the bond capital is guaranteed.
*
BNM telelink
aurora97
post Apr 24 2023, 07:12 PM

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QUOTE(MUM @ Apr 14 2023, 07:36 AM)
What to do if you suspect a mis-selling has occurred?
https://www.sidrec.com.my/publications/guid...ssion-malaysia/
*
There is pro and con taking your case to SIDREC. They have jurisdiction over claims not exceeding RM 250K. If your investment say is RM 1 Million and you win the case, the UTMC will only be obliged to pay you RM 250K.

SIDREC is less formal and more sympathetic to investors. Hence, if say the amount you are claiming is within the ball park of RM 250K, it may be viable to file a claim or if you are willing to take some losses, example you invested RM 300K, you will forgo the RM 50K.

A court process will definitively be the most preferred route, that is... if you have the financial clout to fight both CIMB and AHAM's lawyers. Unless it's a class action suit (i.e. all the unit holders of the fund band together and fight), its unlikely an individual will be able to sustain the momentum of the suit.

Do seek professional advice on this, each route will have its pro and con, it will require time and resources, and sheer f will and commitment to see it through.

This post has been edited by aurora97: Apr 24 2023, 07:13 PM
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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Apr 23 2023, 04:56 PM)
Not sure AHAM is in the court filings but I doubt because if they do CVC would have filed it already
*
Unlikely to be either, it will be the trustee of the fund to initiate the suit. The trustee is the legal owner of the fund.
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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Apr 23 2023, 06:53 PM)
Then you should pose the question the fund house πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

CIMB will easily absolve its responsibility because they are only just fund distributor
*
Not true, indeed they are merely distributing the fund, however they still have to market and sell it. If the bank had sold the product as though it was a fixed deposit, this may give rise a claim (example Singapore and HK Mini Bond incident, i think some investors got back their money because of representations made by the bank).

The problem is the quality or the evidence adduced by the complainant. In this case, the person mentioned all were communicated "verbally". Likelihood, the complainant will get his / her complaint stomped bloody by a wall of terms and conditions, which ironically includes the fact that you should read the offering documents before completing the application form and coupled with the fact that only Sophisticated investors can purchase such products. So it seems whatever argument the complainant has, it's shaky at best and ability to move the needle is negligible.
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QUOTE(aurora97 @ Apr 24 2023, 07:25 PM)
Not true, indeed they are merely distributing the fund, however they still have to market and sell it. If the bank had sold the product as though it was a fixed deposit, this may give rise a claim (example Singapore and HK Mini Bond incident, i think some investors got back their money because of representations made by the bank).

The problem is the quality or the evidence adduced by the complainant. In this case, the person mentioned all were communicated "verbally". Likelihood, the complainant will get his / her complaint stomped bloody by a wall of terms and conditions, which ironically includes the fact that you should read the offering documents before completing the application form and coupled with the fact that only Sophisticated investors can purchase such products. So it seems whatever argument the complainant has, it's shaky at best and ability to move the needle is negligible.
*
I said before to TS that he has to prove misrepresentation from the manager but so far none hence not viable to bring it up to the authorities
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QUOTE(aurora97 @ Apr 24 2023, 07:15 PM)
Unlikely to be either, it will be the trustee of the fund to initiate the suit. The trustee is the legal owner of the fund.
*
Yes trustee is the legal owner but they won’t sue because they would need legal instructions from the fund itself hence the trustee won’t act but the fund house itself because the power of decision and execution lies in them not the trustee πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ
aurora97
post Apr 24 2023, 08:48 PM

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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Apr 24 2023, 07:56 PM)
Yes trustee is the legal owner but they won’t sue because they would need legal instructions from the fund itself hence the trustee won’t act but the fund house itself because the power of decision and execution lies in them not the trustee πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ
*
In terms of investment but when it comes to protecting rights of unit holders the demarcation in the deed is clear. The trustee has a fiduciary duty towards the fund.
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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Apr 24 2023, 07:54 PM)
I said before to TS that he has to prove misrepresentation from the manager but so far none hence not viable to bring it up to the authorities
*
There is no misrepresentation by the fund manager because what the fund manager intends to say is embedded in the offering document. Save where there is material omission/incorrect representation and the likes in the offering document.

The fund was sold by an IUTA to its customer. Also, IUTA enjoys a nominee structure, meaning to say the fund manager has no knowledge who the end customer is. This fund would have been sold by the IUTA's own relationship managers and the customer had relied on the representation from the IUTA.


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QUOTE(aurora97 @ Apr 24 2023, 08:52 PM)
There is no misrepresentation by the fund manager because what the fund manager intends to say is embedded in the offering document. Save where there is material omission/incorrect representation and the likes in the offering document.

The fund was sold by an IUTA to its customer. Also, IUTA enjoys a nominee structure, meaning to say the fund manager has no knowledge who the end customer is. This fund would have been sold by the IUTA's own relationship managers and the customer had relied on the representation from the IUTA.
*
That is why the CIMB manager is misrepresenting not the fund house manager πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ
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QUOTE(aurora97 @ Apr 24 2023, 08:48 PM)
In terms of investment but when it comes to protecting rights of unit holders the demarcation in the deed is clear. The trustee has a fiduciary duty towards the fund.
*
What fiduciary duty when it is reported that the fund house is giving instructions to the trustee to take action rather than the trustee

The trustee duty is only to hold and protect the fund but not on fund execution particularly in buying and selling assets or holdings πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ
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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Apr 24 2023, 09:06 PM)
That is why the CIMB manager is misrepresenting not the fund house manager πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ
*
The term is used loosely here, there is a distinction between CIMB's RM and the fund house manager. In which case, the fault more likely lies with the former, which is the point I am driving at.
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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Apr 24 2023, 09:08 PM)
What fiduciary duty when it is reported that the fund house is giving instructions to the trustee to take action rather than the trustee

The trustee duty is only to hold and protect the fund but not on fund execution particularly in buying and selling assets or holdings πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ
*
Indeed trustee takes instruction from the fund manager and pays a fee for the services rendered because the trustee does not have fund management knowledge / expertise.

As you have mentioned, the trustee is only to "hold and to protect the fund" what constitutes the fund is obviously the assets and the unit holders that are within it.
csbong87
post Apr 24 2023, 09:26 PM

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when we want to liquidate the investment but the CIMB bank manager says to wait write up from AHAM but too late as FINMA already trigger write down. Who should bare losses ?
aurora97
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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 24 2023, 09:26 PM)
when we want to liquidate the investment but the CIMB bank manager says to wait write up from AHAM but too late as FINMA already trigger write down. Who should bare losses ?
*
First and foremost, to disclaim, this isn't legal advice. It's just for discussion purpose. Please consult a professional, if needed.

All things being equal, if the contents of the Offering Document (in this case an Information Memorandum) are as disclosed and transpired, the investor to bear the losses.

Then again, this isn't your usual cup of tea, as alleged by you, there is element of misrepresentation and government intervention.

Unless there are other developments, the situation you encounter now remains as "status quo".
csbong87
post Apr 24 2023, 09:59 PM

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QUOTE(aurora97 @ Apr 24 2023, 09:50 PM)
First and foremost, to disclaim, this isn't legal advice. It's just for discussion purpose. Please consult a professional, if needed.

All things being equal, if the contents of the Offering Document (in this case an Information Memorandum) are as disclosed and transpired, the investor to bear the losses.

Then again, this isn't your usual cup of tea, as alleged by you, there is element of misrepresentation and government intervention.

Unless there are other developments, the situation you encounter now remains as "status quo".
*
CIMB bank manager promise and say wont write down to zero, when we called him on the phone to liquidate that evening was 60 cents already.
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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 24 2023, 09:59 PM)
CIMB bank manager promise and say wont write down to zero, when we called him on the phone to liquidate that evening was 60 cents already.
*
Put it this way, if I don't see money in the bank, as the adage goes "money talks, bullshit walks".

Good luck in your recovery or claim, I will be watching this closely.
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post Apr 24 2023, 10:22 PM

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QUOTE(aurora97 @ Apr 24 2023, 10:17 PM)
Put it this way, if I don't see money in the bank, as the adage goes "money talks, bullshit walks".

Good luck in your recovery or claim, I will be watching this closely.
*
Thanks
xander2k8
post Apr 25 2023, 04:10 AM

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QUOTE(aurora97 @ Apr 24 2023, 09:11 PM)
The term is used loosely here, there is a distinction between CIMB's RM and the fund house manager. In which case, the fault more likely lies with the former, which is the point I am driving at.
*
Already mentioned earlier that is the CIMB Manager not the fund house manager as you didn’t read through πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

QUOTE(aurora97 @ Apr 24 2023, 09:14 PM)
Indeed trustee takes instruction from the fund manager and pays a fee for the services rendered because the trustee does not have fund management knowledge / expertise.

As you have mentioned, the trustee is only to "hold and to protect the fund" what constitutes the fund is obviously the assets and the unit holders that are within it.
*
The only action the trustee can take against the fund house is they deviate against the asset allocation stated deed nothing else πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 24 2023, 09:26 PM)
when we want to liquidate the investment but the CIMB bank manager says to wait write up from AHAM but too late as FINMA already trigger write down. Who should bare losses ?
*
You will have the bare losses no matter and they only thing they can recovered whatever left in the cash with any goodwill exit payment that is voluntarily top up by the fund house which is very low possibility

QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 24 2023, 09:59 PM)
CIMB bank manager promise and say wont write down to zero, when we called him on the phone to liquidate that evening was 60 cents already.
*
In way he is right because the fund won’t write down to 0 but can bear losses πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

That is why I stay away from UT a lot because you don’t have control with whatever decisions especially exit hence why when you invest in anything always plan your exit strategy if things go wrong
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post Apr 25 2023, 05:39 AM

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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Apr 25 2023, 04:10 AM)
Already mentioned earlier that is the CIMB Manager not the fund house manager as you didn’t read through πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ
The only action the trustee can take against the fund house is they deviate against the asset allocation stated deed nothing else πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ
You will have the bare losses no matter and they only thing they can recovered whatever left in the cash with any goodwill exit payment that is voluntarily top up by the fund house which is very low possibility
In way he is right because the fund won’t write down to 0 but can bear losses πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

That is why I stay away from UT a lot because you don’t have control with whatever decisions especially exit hence why when you invest in anything always plan your exit strategy if things go wrong
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It' a bond and purchase through CIMB Bank Malaysia and its bank manager guarantees customers that the principal is guaranteed. Unless if CIMB bank manager has follow proper procedures in selling (letting know customers that the bond can be written down to zero) than we might have second taught. Is misselling here that what Im trying to say as we are victims to the CIMB bank manager, and CIMB Malaysia must be responsible towards it's customers.

This post has been edited by csbong87: Apr 25 2023, 05:49 AM
xander2k8
post Apr 25 2023, 07:15 AM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 25 2023, 05:39 AM)
It' a bond and purchase through CIMB Bank Malaysia and its bank manager guarantees customers that the principal is guaranteed. Unless if CIMB bank manager has follow proper procedures in selling (letting know customers that the bond can be written down to zero) than we might have second taught. Is misselling here that what Im trying to say as we are victims to the CIMB bank manager, and CIMB Malaysia must be responsible towards it's customers.
*
Unless you have written legal binding guarantee from the bank manager you are not a victims in their eyes as they are doing their jobs πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

1stly you got sucked into just by the bank manager as he has no right and power to guarantee as no one can guaranteed the principal other than issuer themselves πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

This is a good lesson for you to learn that if you don’t understand don’t buy and don’t be greedy and get sucked into as there is nothing life is guaranteed other than taxes and death πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ
csbong87
post Apr 25 2023, 08:37 AM

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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Apr 25 2023, 07:15 AM)
Unless you have written legal binding guarantee from the bank manager you are not a victims in their eyes as they are doing their jobs πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

1stly you got sucked into just by the bank manager as he has no right and power to guarantee as no one can guaranteed the principal other than issuer themselves πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

This is a good lesson for you to learn that if you don’t understand don’t buy and don’t be greedy and get sucked into as there is nothing life is guaranteed other than taxes and death πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ
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Its a bond, and its CIMB Malaysia. Its called cheating as what AHAM and the bank manager present its different. Not any customer btw, is Preferred.
xander2k8
post Apr 25 2023, 12:39 PM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 25 2023, 08:37 AM)
Its a bond, and its CIMB Malaysia. Its called cheating as what AHAM and the bank manager present its different. Not any customer btw, is Preferred.
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Doesn’t matter if it is bond or CIMB or whatever status you are πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ in their eyes they are doing the job just that you are unlucky lamb

I don’t know whether you dumb or ignorant because you could have say no but you greed tempt you in just because you say yes because it is a bond and the manager tempt you and say principal guaranteed when he does not have the right or power to do it πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ take it as a lesson and move otherwise you will be still bitter as you got no control even to sue πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ
csbong87
post Apr 25 2023, 03:14 PM

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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ Apr 25 2023, 12:39 PM)
Doesn’t matter if it is bond or CIMB or whatever status you are πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ in their eyes they are doing the job just that you are unlucky lamb

I don’t know whether you dumb or ignorant because you could have say no but you greed tempt you in just because you say yes because it is a bond and the manager tempt you and say principal guaranteed when he does not have the right or power to do it πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ take it as a lesson and move otherwise you will be still bitter as you got no control even to sue πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ
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Again it's a bond, a bank CIMB and principal guaranteed as told by the bank manager.
xander2k8
post Apr 25 2023, 03:21 PM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 25 2023, 03:14 PM)
Again it's a bond, a bank CIMB and principal guaranteed as told by the bank manager.
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Doesn’t matter if it is bond because bond is just lending paper to them while you are buying those papers πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

Like I said CIMB and the bank manager cannot guaranteed because they do not issue the bonds πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ Only Credit Suisse can tell you whether it is principal is guaranteed because they are issuers of those papers πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ seems like you are still in lala land thinking bond are guarantee while it is not πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ as you have not learnt the lesson


Cubalagi
post Apr 25 2023, 03:32 PM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ Apr 25 2023, 05:39 AM)
It' a bond and purchase through CIMB Bank Malaysia and its bank manager guarantees customers that the principal is guaranteed. Unless if CIMB bank manager has follow proper procedures in selling (letting know customers that the bond can be written down to zero) than we might have second taught. Is misselling here that what Im trying to say as we are victims to the CIMB bank manager, and CIMB Malaysia must be responsible towards it's customers.
*
A lot of these Branch Managers and RMs are just simply pushing all forms of products without fully explaining the risks. Last few years, I have heard of uncles and aunties being sold equity linked Glove stocks, China tech stocks. All kena burn.

About time some people make these bankers accountable.

This post has been edited by Cubalagi: Apr 25 2023, 03:32 PM
xander2k8
post Apr 25 2023, 03:37 PM

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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ Apr 25 2023, 03:32 PM)
A lot of these Branch Managers and RMs are just simply pushing all forms of products without fully explaining the risks. Last few years, I have heard of uncles and aunties being sold equity linked Glove stocks, China tech stocks. All kena burn.

About time some people make these bankers accountable.
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Must be SI products πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ they won’t be accountable so as long as the regulator’s doesn’t take any action πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ hence why such product is still in the markets for those financial illiterates

Only you can see action on Leverage and Inverse products as one have to fulfill the conditions of Sophisticated Investor in order for them to purchase those products
csbong87
post Apr 25 2023, 05:53 PM

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QUOTE(Cubalagi @ Apr 25 2023, 03:32 PM)
A lot of these Branch Managers and RMs are just simply pushing all forms of products without fully explaining the risks. Last few years, I have heard of uncles and aunties being sold equity linked Glove stocks, China tech stocks. All kena burn.

About time some people make these bankers accountable.
*
Ya, that particular CIMB branch has senior citizens some amounting to a million in this bond.
csbong87
post May 7 2023, 06:33 PM

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Quinn Emanuel said it is working with the following firms:
-- US – Wollmuth Maher & Deutsch;
-- UK – Keidan Harrison;
-- Singapore – Engelin Teh;
-- Gulf Cooperation Council – Global Advocacy and Legal Counsel; and
-- Switzerland – GeissbΓΌhler Weber & Partners.

https://www.wealthbriefing.com/html/article...84#.ZFd-W3ZBy3B
plc255
post May 10 2023, 09:17 PM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ May 7 2023, 06:33 PM)
Quinn Emanuel said it is working with the following firms:
-- US – Wollmuth Maher & Deutsch; 
-- UK – Keidan Harrison;
-- Singapore – Engelin Teh;
-- Gulf Cooperation Council – Global Advocacy and Legal Counsel; and
-- Switzerland – GeissbΓΌhler Weber & Partners.

https://www.wealthbriefing.com/html/article...84#.ZFd-W3ZBy3B
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AHAM Capital joins global litigation to challenge Credit Suisse AT1 write-downs

Good luck!
csbong87
post May 12 2023, 08:03 PM

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QUOTE(plc255 @ May 10 2023, 09:17 PM)
Just curious which are the banks in Malaysia which is also selling CS's bond other than CIMB ?
xander2k8
post May 13 2023, 03:55 AM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ May 12 2023, 08:03 PM)
Just curious which are the banks in Malaysia which is also selling CS's bond other than CIMB ?
*
I don’t think directly there is for any Malaysian Banks

Even CIMB is not directly selling the CS bonds πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ they are selling the bond fund that is from AHAM which manages and buying the bonds itself
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post May 13 2023, 04:30 PM

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Rain or shine. Bankers and lawyers walk home with your money. laugh.gif

https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/...t-him-rm500000/
plc255
post May 13 2023, 04:35 PM

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QUOTE(TOS @ May 13 2023, 04:30 PM)
Rain or shine. Bankers and lawyers walk home with your money. laugh.gif

https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/...t-him-rm500000/
*
The 2 bond funds that got wiped was around RM70 ~ RM100m, depending on how you count it....
It had me wondering for a while that it cant be all just insti buying this, but rather must be some individual and surely some unfortunate one were losing more than others...
also a mere rm10k entry point surely quite some people kena...

Guess the news is slowly coming out...

Cross selling fund or insurance to FD uncle is surely quite profitable to the bankers.....
csbong87
post May 13 2023, 08:46 PM

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QUOTE(plc255 @ May 13 2023, 04:35 PM)
The 2 bond funds that got wiped was around RM70 ~ RM100m, depending on how you count it....
It had me wondering for a while that it cant be all just insti buying this, but rather must be some individual and surely some unfortunate one were losing more than others...
also a mere rm10k entry point surely quite some people kena...

Guess the news is slowly coming out...

Cross selling fund or insurance to FD uncle is surely quite profitable to the bankers.....
*
guess what ? our side mis sell the product saying a min RM 100k to purchase this bond.
xander2k8
post May 13 2023, 09:34 PM

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QUOTE(plc255 @ May 13 2023, 04:35 PM)
The 2 bond funds that got wiped was around RM70 ~ RM100m, depending on how you count it....
It had me wondering for a while that it cant be all just insti buying this, but rather must be some individual and surely some unfortunate one were losing more than others...
also a mere rm10k entry point surely quite some people kena...

Guess the news is slowly coming out...

Cross selling fund or insurance to FD uncle is surely quite profitable to the bankers.....
*
The institutions is just distributing the fund and they are not buying it πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ hence no losses to them and even the fund house there are almost to none losses because they are only collecting management fee annually while the actual losers are the individuals who buying it at rm100k Min entry point πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ so in fact losses are only probably a couple of hundred or about 1000+ because of the high entry point at rm100k

It will would have gain more drama if the entry price was as low as rm1000 then you will see more drama outside of the distributors or the banks πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

AHAM actual wipe out is about 70% of the fund while 30% are still in actual money because they manage to liquidate some before the whole thing went south while the mandate was holding at least 15% in cash anytime
csbong87
post May 14 2023, 09:01 PM

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QUOTE(xander2k8 @ May 13 2023, 09:34 PM)
The institutions is just distributing the fund and they are not buying it πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ hence no losses to them and even the fund house there are almost to none losses because they are only collecting management fee annually while the actual losers are the individuals who buying it at rm100k Min entry point πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ so in fact losses are only probably a couple of hundred or about 1000+ because of the high entry point at rm100k

It will would have gain more drama if the entry price was as low as rm1000 then you will see more drama outside of the distributors or the banks πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

AHAM actual wipe out is about 70% of the fund while 30% are still in actual money because they manage to liquidate some before the whole thing went south while the mandate was holding at least 15% in cash anytime
*
what when (NAV date) did you see the fund still has 30% in value ? not supposed to be negative ?
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post May 15 2023, 12:00 AM

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QUOTE(csbong87 @ May 14 2023, 09:01 PM)
what when (NAV date) did you see the fund still has 30% in value ? not supposed to be negative ?
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1stly it is will never be negative πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ because even if you lose 100% in bonds it will be zero at the lowest hence nil price πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

Check the mandate as they have the mandate it is 15% of cash at anytime while another 15% when they manage to sell off before the forced takeover by FINMA

Go ask AHAM or check your statement during early March
csbong87
post May 15 2023, 10:02 AM

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Since April suspension has been lifted, as per feedback will be negative due to settling liabilities (Didn't mention in detail as of what type of expenses). Also advancing funds to bring NAV to zero for now.

This post has been edited by csbong87: May 15 2023, 01:15 PM
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QUOTE(csbong87 @ May 15 2023, 10:02 AM)
Since April suspension has been lifted, as per feedback will be negative due to settling liabilities (Didn't mention in detail as of what type of expenses). Also advancing funds to bring NAV to zero for now.
*
Based on annual report FYE 31 Jan 2023 for both single bond fund 2 and 4, they were about 93%+/- invested remaining probably in FX forward/swap or deposits.

Typically, the liabilities of the fund includes accrued management fee, trustee/custodian fee, bank charges, derivatives (FX forward/Swap), fees due to distributors, auditor etc... The fund may have defaulted but the fees/charges etc... still need to be paid unless waived by counterparty.

I presume when you meant by "advancing funds", the fund manager is coughing out some money to bring the fund back to Zero NAV. I think this would be the right thing to do because a negative NAV may imply that the unit holders owe monies to the fund, whereas the deed has made clear that the liabilities of the unit holder is up until the amount invested.


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3… 2… 1… AHAM PRS #MerdekaBonus Campaign is here!

Grow your retirement savings! Grow your wealth! Be prepared for your golden years!
By investing a minimum of RM1,000 into any of our Private Retirement Scheme ("PRS") funds, you will receive an additional 1.0% Free Units based on your investment amount. The maximum investment amount for this campaign is capped at RM10,000 per participant.

Complement your retirement savings with AHAM PRS.
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QUOTE(holyleonard @ Aug 30 2023, 05:01 PM)
everyone got this?

3… 2… 1… AHAM PRS #MerdekaBonus Campaign is here!

Grow your retirement savings! Grow your wealth! Be prepared for your golden years!
By investing a minimum of RM1,000 into any of our Private Retirement Scheme ("PRS") funds, you will receive an additional 1.0% Free Units based on your investment amount. The maximum investment amount for this campaign is capped at RM10,000 per participant.

Complement your retirement savings with AHAM PRS.
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Don't look at 1%. It's marketing. Look at overall funds return. Are AHAM fund returns acceptable to you and your risk level. If yes then put in your money. For me personally their return sucks so I dont bother with them. I prefer consistent 10%p.a Vs 1-3%p.a
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QUOTE(holyleonard @ Aug 30 2023, 05:01 PM)
everyone got this?

3… 2… 1… AHAM PRS #MerdekaBonus Campaign is here!

Grow your retirement savings! Grow your wealth! Be prepared for your golden years!
By investing a minimum of RM1,000 into any of our Private Retirement Scheme ("PRS") funds, you will receive an additional 1.0% Free Units based on your investment amount. The maximum investment amount for this campaign is capped at RM10,000 per participant.

Complement your retirement savings with AHAM PRS.
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1% is nothing when they already charged you sales charge πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ look at the returns and then fees which you will be losing end with mediocre returns

 

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