I think anyone thinking about growing these tress should think about what the market will be like by the time you can harvest. There are 10s of millions of trees that were planted just to get the 10% that will make oil when they are very mature. Now with this kit the market will in a few years be over flowing with oil. Do some research before you jump in the deep end.

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Added on June 17, 2008, 10:48 amIsn,t scentedmountain owned by the same company that sells the kits? The kits produce B grade chips tha,t and I have found several refferences on the web sell for $230 KG. So its no where near $1 gram! Who is buying volume at that price? I want to see company info. So in todays market a tree yields $45 to $100 of chips after 6 years . This kit cost $30 and saplings, care, etc. What is the selling price years from now, when the millions of trees out there are done with the kit? Big old trees that were planted 20 years ago. How much will B grade chips be worth then? Don,t base an investment on facts from the company that makes money selling you the tools. Do your own homework.

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Added on June 17, 2008, 12:06 pm"Good quality agarwood produced from plantation trees treated with CA Kits is currently selling ex-factory at US$1,000/kg in Vietnam and US$5,000/kg in USA (actually retailing via the internet at US$25/5 grams). I could give you the web site address but I don�t want to be accused of blatantly promoting products (even though I have no commercial interest in the web site).
From trees treated at 5 years and harvested at 7 years between 200 � 500 grams of agarwood chips worth US$1 per gram are being harvested by my business associate in Vietnam, hence the value of US$200 � 500 per tree that I mentioned previously (in addition they get about 1 kg of agarwood powder per tree worth about US$30 � 50 that can be used to make oil/incense). "

Another quote from the saleman. No comercial interest directly but indirectly yes. Anyone can set up a web site but do they have sales?The associates in Vietnam runs the web site. What does that tell you? I found this on the web....

"As noted in Barden et al, grading gaharu is a complicated process. This includes evaluating thesize, colour, odour, weight (on scales and in water) and flammability of the wood – butapplication of grade codes (Super A, A, B, C, D, E) varies between buyers in PNG. Asian buyersare mostly based in Vanimo, though several have been reported to buy in Wewak when there isdemand. Most Asian buyers have PNG nationals working for them who are sent as ‘agents’ outto the village communities to assay and purchase gaharu. Prices paid to collectors in East Sepikand Sandaun Provinces are made in PNG Kina (PGK) per gram or kilogram. According toinformation collected from individuals involved in the trade, prices in May 2001 averaged asfollows:A grade = PGK1139.5 (USD341); B grade = PGK791.2 (USD237); C grade = PGK172(USD172); D grade = PGK371.66 (USD111"


B grade = $237 in 2001. Do you think the price is going up with greater market availabilty? Another find "we have ready stock agarwood and sandal wood Price per one Kg Agarwood Grade A USD 950 Grade B USD 650 Grade C USD 280 sandal wood USD 35 Per one kg too" Selling wholesale for $ 650. Ah this ling has the price at $280 kg
http://209.85.175.104/search?q=cache:GTBbt...lnk&cd=63&gl=th Do your homwwork investors.


This post has been edited by jollygreengiant: Jun 17 2008, 12:06 PM

You have a lot of opinion but very little facts. A The CA kit site saids " med-high" with an avr of 225 gms not the 200-500 you claim. The grading system is internation al and why are claiming it is not? Why does the ca site claim for 10-50 gms of grade A and not grade the the rest?I have a quote from someone who claims to be a researcher who saids most of the chips are grade C ""Hmmm... you can say that I am actually quite familiar with this topic because I am involved in a research related to gaharu. Just for your information, the price of the gaharu itself depends solely in the grade of the resin and cultivated gaharu is known to have a grade of around "C" which does not really fetch a good price in the market. There are still alot of grey area in this trade so you can say that there are risk involved" B there are only a couple of main countrys that buy and buying hubs why are you trying to say the grading system varuies? Why don,t you say exactly what grade and how much on average the kits produce. These claims by the way from your site say the ttrees are 6-9 year old and not as who like to keep saying age healty 3-4-5 year old trees. C http://www.biotrop.org/prd.php?act=proddet&id=8 this is the current market plus maybe double for smuggling. http://www.enfleurage.com/ac-agarwood-2.html Massive amounts of trees have been planted only to get the harvest that occurs by way of nature.Doesnt Lao have 10 million trees alone? In fact the truth is even with out the kits there are too many trees planted and the price has been falling. Also what you said about the Kits being a tiny fraction is not true. Tens of thousands of kit have been used and sales are increasing. The kit is already doing about 1/8 of world producion.D prices, value chain. You say the kits make chips worth $1 gram to the grower. Then you must know what grade to make that statement, what is it. I provided some links to wholesale prices for different grades what can you show us? A link to your partners web site. What is your dirty little secret.... I know, the price is falling and fast. You hope there will be a market for shampoo etc. It will have to be very cheap before that happens. I find it strange that someone who is in the business selling kits can not offer or will not offer links to buyers prices or accounting to what the real price is.Learning your first lesson? Hard to believe you are in this business and don,t even really know the price of the product. In fact the average tree in THIS market will only get $100 and production is increasing. Of course as long as you sell kits you are making money, $30 each is that right? Tell us have you offered any buy back scemes like you said you do? if so for how much? Ya right vNot in the business of incouraging people tp plant agarwood hahaha I have read many of your post here and on other forums where you do just that, in fact on your own web site you offer seeds, your a real joker arn,t you. You talk alot but only ever offer opinion, business men want facts, something you would rather we did not know.So put up or shut up. No more of your smooth salesman jive. Show us FACTS FACTS

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Added on June 18, 2008, 4:08 pmus$1,000 WOW thats amazing! amazing bs that is. The real price is $250 kg or $56, C grade for oil and incence takes 15 kg to produce $25 oil and is expensive to distill. $30 for the kit. 5 year old tree that is care for watered, pruned, fertilized, guarded, fenced, labor intensive harvest and WOW maybe $50 bucks. Oh ya I heard 1 in 10 trees dies from the treatment and in plantation its not unusual to have to replace 50%.What will the price be next year?

HOHOHO

This post has been edited by jollygreengiant: Jun 18 2008, 04:08 PM

Vietnam market http://www.mathaba.net/rss/?x=564413 It works out to $5000 -$15,000 ( best senario ) per HA a year. ha = 850 trees =$15,000 Div 850 =$17 x 5 years growth = $85 a tree. Kit $30, maintance etc....... WOW soon they can retire. now they growing 3x as many! There must be a better investment then a tree that may or may not give you a return per year of $8. In fact don,t most fruit trees have a better rate of return and you don,t have to kill them, Rubber , many more.

HOHOHO

Sorry if i,m rubbing salt into your wounds buddy. I see you are still avoiding the question. What grade does the kit produce? You state on your own site the value is $1,000 kg ( arn,t you afraid of getting sued? oh ya its Lao ) so what grade is it? Have you done a buyback offer and for how much? You said you do. I have been told B & C and have provided many links to the value. What have you shown us? Nothing but a link to your kit sellers web site claiming high value. Why are avoiding the question? Sure different countrys have different names for the grades but the price is the same for what ever they call it. If you like, give the grade of your product in what ever country you like. This is a farm product not a wild one, the grade and results are consistant.What grade is Med-High that is worth $1,000 kg? You can confirm 1/8 yourself by stating the number of kits that the company have sold. Lets see if you will. By the way I have it from your company. Discredit the kits? Have I said anything about the kits? You mean YOU don,t you. You made claims, I discredited them. You can correct me with facts if you can, but we both know you can,t or you would. Lets have some facts, not so happy farmers.

HOHOHO

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Added on June 19, 2008, 1:21 pmWOW !!! your right! so the value of thr trees is $85. hahahahah. What happened to 200- 500 grams @ $1,000 kg old boy. Doesnt quite fit does it. Thats the best case too! it could only be $28. Thanks for agreeing

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Added on June 19, 2008, 1:43 pm"The link you provided says that "growers can earn a profit of between 100-300 million per ha of do tram (agarwood) tree per year"." I noted you modified the quote so folks would thats $s when in fact its VND @ about 17,000 to 1. If they plant more then 850 a ha then the value per plant could be even lower hmmm. WOW Could be that the trees are only worth $20 - $60 bucks after all that work and years of waiting. Not a very good return is it. Happy I see you have read the question again and still will not say what grade the kit produces. Your silence tells us the truth.


This post has been edited by jollygreengiant: Jun 19 2008, 01:43 PM

"Ha Noi (VNA) – The Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development plans to zone off 30,000 ha for growing fragrant do tram (aquilaria crassna) trees, which produce resinous heartwood, a highly valuable product commonly used in the pharmaceutical and cosmetic industries.

The Ministry will also transfer the technology for essential oil refining to farmers under a plan set till 2010.

At a symposium on the development of do tram tree held in Ha Noi on September 17, experts estimated that growers can earn a profit of between 100-300 million VND per ha of do tram tree a year.

Currently, Viet Nam has more than 10,000 ha of do tram trees, mostly in private farms. "

Why did you change the quote happy? 3 X to be planted! What will that do to the market? The CA kit site says a 6-9 year old tree ( 10cm dia ) will produce and average of 225 gms med-high chips. Your site says 5 year tree and you have stated at times 3 year old tree and up to 500 grams.You say the grade varies, break that down for us in percent of what grade. Provide us with names of companies that are buying this product at $1,000 kg. Tens of thousands of kits sold and you can,t provide any buyers or even state what the grade is LOL. You said in Vn they sell this for $1,000 kg and say so on your site but do not say what grade they sold it as? Why is that? You say you will buy back trees at a agreed price but have you? Has any one? I heard in Thailand they can,t sell the kit because of patent infringment, yet thailand remains one of the largest producers of plantation product, how is that? Cites must be allowing them export permits. Perhaps plantation owners should shop around toward other methods that don,t cost as much as the kits. I,m sure this will get a response from you haha. I have read that there are other non-patent methods that produce chips in almost the same volume as the kit. If the kit costs 30- 60% of the profit then maybe the other methods are cheaper and just as viable. I guess thats why you don,t want the growers to know the real value of the chips produced by the kit because then you would shoot yourself in the foot.

HOHOHO

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Added on June 19, 2008, 4:19 pmJust like I said, only OPINION and no facts. This from someone who makes a lot of cash from selling the kits.The ca site has no problem stating A grade how can they do that if this is so varied?! 3 years of using the kit in VN and ten years of testing and no one can say what grade it makes LOLOLLOL .Do you think any one really believes that. Can,t publish the finding? hahhah I can see that, its better that no one knows how BAD the results are! if they were good why would it be a secret?Yes 9 grades is a system in use so tell what grades and how much the kit makes? You already said $1,000 kg so what grade is that? You bought back trees but of course thats also a secret because then every one will want to LOL. Like at this point you are believeable. Still no list of buyers? Can,t tell from the article? it was very clear and I had no problem pasteing it either. If you can do the math then you can see what the value is per tree. Too much for you? Shall i explain again. No need really is there. The readers understand you do not want to admit the real value of the trees. i can see why you would like to end the little chat. Every one of your posts shows you only offer opinion and suggestion but no real facts. In fact you have tried to twist the truth and refused to answer basic questions.So you say folks should buy kits from you and plant trees because you heard from somebody. Your kidding right?

HOHOHO

If you can,t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

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Added on June 19, 2008, 4:45 pmI will try to exlain this to you like a 6 year old so you understand.

100,000,000 VDN = around $5,000 usd so a farmer can expect a profit of $5,000 usd per ha per year.

850 trees per ha = $5,000 Div 850 trees = $6 per tree.( if they plant more then this then its less $ per tree )

5 years of growth X $6 = $30 ( this could be 6-9 years of waiting but same rate per year )

A 5 year old tree has a profit to the farmer of $30.


Or according to happy 30 gms @ $1,000 ? ( or is it 200 gms @ $150 kg. wasnt this price $250 a couple of years ago? ) LOL.

But remember don,t tell anyone the facts
just give them hype and rumors of riches.
( CA internal memo )

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Added on June 19, 2008, 5:22 pmhttp://www.cropwatch.org/agardistil.htm

This is interesting. I think claims were made of chips containing 30% oil. Get the facts

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Added on June 19, 2008, 5:50 pm"The process of agar deposits is not fully understood. A Dutch paper from 1933 (J. P. Schuitemaker, "Het garoehout van West Boreno" Boschbouwkundig Tijdschrift Tectona Uitgave der Vereeniging van Hoogere Ambtenaren bij het Boschwezen in Nederlands Oost-Indi 26:851-892) reported the occurrence of agarwood in Borneo and discussed many different types of resin produced in trees. Most of the local people at the time believed that agarwood formed from mysterious ways and was associated with the spirit world. The author stated that "the mysterious occurrence of the `holy` wood is connected to supernatural powers" and that agarwood was referred to as "wood of the gods." The author also noted that "we cannot exclude the possibility of a pathological occurrence of which the cause was unknown," that "perfect trees never have agarwood," and that agarwood "is formed around wounded or rotting parts of the trunk." The author also suggested that salt put into holes in trees might promote resin. The paper also stated that if the agarwood was infectious, maybe it would be possible to induce agarwood formation by infecting the trunk artificially by putting fresh cut agarwood into the stem."

This is interesting. 1933, I wonder if they took out a patent?



This post has been edited by jollygreengiant: Jun 19 2008, 05:50 PM

Yes it is a tree......Agarwood. Yes it is worth money. How ever there is not much to made growing this tree unless you started 6 years ago and most who are doing well started 15 years ago.

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Added on June 20, 2008, 11:46 amIts interesting to note that VN has 10,000 ha already planted in agarwood. At 850 trees per ha that works out to 8.5 million trees ( this number to triple starting as of last year ). We know that the average age for a tree to reach 10cm is 7 1/2 years. The average growth rate for this tree in Dia is 1.30 cm per year. We know that these plantations were started about 10 years ago with yearly increases in planting.We know that kit use started 2 1/2 years ago just as the first trees reached 10 cm. I think we can guesstimate that on a rolling basis at the start ( 2 1/2 years ago ) 20,000 kits were used. Last year 40,000 and on track this year for 100,000. Research has shown that for the market price to remain stable 200,000 trees per year are harvested, ( granted these trees were wild and most likely twice the size and with illegal smuggling we can assume the real global market is of plantation trees 800,000 ). The kits have already displaced 1/8 of the market and the more kits that are sold the lower the market price for agarwood will be. At some point they will be forced to drop the price of the kits just to sell them. Standard supply and demand. Dreams of creating new markets are years away and main stream manufacturers want inexpensive materials. Dreams of getting fantastic riches by using this product are created by the kit sellers to make them rich. Secret reports of amazing results to wet your appitite, rumors from trusted friends reported as fact that tons of cash is just waiting for you to take delivery.Is it not clear to anyone reading this that if the kit produces a good product they would be advertizing the fact from the highest hills?Your told 200 -500 gms @ $1,000 per kg but its impossible to state what grade that is? Do you see the scam.Your told 3-4-5 year old trees can produce but you are not told that the average tree will not be ready for 7 1/2 years. Your told 200- 500 gms but reported data claims 200 - 250 grams average. Your told they will buy back the trees from you but claim condtitions are secret.Why not if the return is so good come out and make a clear statement that they will buy the trees back for say 10 % less of the $1,000 kg they claim? I know a farmer in lao who would be very happy to sign a contact like that. Its not going to happen though because the plain fact is that the kit does not produce like the seller claims and is ripping off poor farmers who don,t know any better. Sad really that what was supposed to be something that would help end poverty of the poorest of the poor is being used by big business as a tool to make the rich richer.

HOHOHO

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Added on June 21, 2008, 3:34 pmRubber latex is extracted from Rubber trees. The economic life period of rubber trees in plantations is around 32 years – 7 years of immature phase and about 25 years of productive phase.

The soil requirement of the plant is generally well-drained weathered soil consisting of laterite, lateritic types, sedimentary types, nonlateritic red or alluvial soils.

The climatic conditions for optimum growth of Rubber tree consist of (a) Rainfall of around 250 cm evenly distributed without any marked dry season and with at least 100 rainy days per annum (b) Temperature range of about 20oC to 34oC with a monthly mean of 25 to 28oC © High atmospheric humidity of around 80% (d) Bright sunshine amounting to about 2000 hours per annum at the rate of 6 hours per day throughout the year and (e) Absence of strong winds.

Many high yielding clones have been developed for Rubber plantation. These clones yield more than 1,500 Kilogrammes of dry Rubber per hectare per annum, when grown in good conditions
At 9 rm kg =13.500 Rm ha per year. Thats $4,100 usd per ha. If the Vn farmers are $5,000 per ha it would seem better until you realize that rubber produces for 25 years and agarwood is a one year crop. In fact if you think about it rubber returns are about 5X better!I heard from a trusted friend close to the kit sellers in VN that the grade the kit makes is B & C. The wholesale price to the farmer is if your lucky and the price does not keep falling $230 kg. The only ones getting $1,000 kg for this grade are brokers in the major selling hubs who are selling to arabs etc and not in the volume a farmer needs to sell at.There is no way its a good idea to start planting these trees. Look around for a better investment and don,t be fooled by con men.

HOHOHO

This post has been edited by jollygreengiant: Jun 21 2008, 03:34 PM

Subjective like when you take your chips to market and they are subjected to supply and demand. I see you are another conponent of the "secret results" camp. What a great way to sell kits, don,t tell the public what they do. By the way I also know what the kits can do from the company them selves. Why don,t you just ask them, and then you will know that the grade is B & C. Take a chip to market and they will tell you the chip is B & C and what the price is. There is no confusion in the grading except the one the seller would like to create to cover up the fact that the kits & agarwood make less as an investment, then many other crops. Didn,t you have some posts before also trying to sell people seeds, etc. One could say you also benifit from selling this idea. I guess as long as you make money its alright to tell a little lie.

HOHOHO

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Added on June 23, 2008, 9:54 amAh yes here it is. #4 inoculant services. No doubt you are the local kit seller and make money by pushing this bad investment. Of course you have to say the grades vary and the price is fantastic! Another sales man pushing his product. Why don,t you offer some links to facts in stead of rumors.

HOHOHO

This post has been edited by jollygreengiant: Jun 23 2008, 09:54 AM