I on the other hand think Ramos is slowly improving... at least he tries to defend nowadays as compared to the opening game against russia.

I thought Ramos had a decent game. He lost possession one or two times but it was mostly in the center of the field not in the deep end. He played some nice passes out of defence too so I don't really get where all the negativity is coming from. He didn't contribute much going forward; it seemed like Aragones had him tied on a leash as he hardly bombed forward like he does for us.

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Added on June 23, 2008, 10:47 amI think the problem is with the way Spain are playing. They play a narrow midfield which means the width has to be provided by the fullbacks. When fullbacks go forward to support the attack I don't think you can really expect them to rush back to defend in time. The midfield has to be responsible to cover for them. I think it's one of the reasons why Ramos is now being told not to go forward so much with Capdevilla given the license to support the attack instead.

This post has been edited by verx: Jun 23 2008, 10:47 AM

I bet you it will be another restrained performance from him against the Russians. Gus Hiddink is too shrewd a manager to be suckered twice - he'll put someone on Xavi and have his players attack the fullbacks. If anything, Xavi's a tad too slow IMHO, same problem as Alonso has in the BPL. At least with Liverpool, we used to think that this is due to Gerrard, Kuyt and Babel not being smart enough to make the runs and 'create' the space for Alonso, but Xavi struggles even with Villa, Torres and Silva making those darting runs in front of him and having Senna as a minder to protect him Time to let Fabregas and Alonso have a chance to prove themselves perhaps? Xavi and Ienesta aren't exactly on fire are they?

Yeah it will be. Especially with Arshavin available now. He has to be doubled up. The problem with Xavi and Iniesta is that they are so used to the slow possession game and they have had poor seasons for Barca as well. It's one of the reasons why I wanted Guti to be included in the squad as his eye for a pass is second to none. That said I think Fabregas should start the next game. I don't think Senna will be sacrificed as he has been playing very well.

senna's penalty kick is very nice..

anyway, my favourite player is silva

yeah..silva is awesome!! his long range try are DANGEROUS!!!

yeah, i agree about that.. xavi never released the ball

senna has a really good tournament
still remember he was linked to man utd few years ago

This post has been edited by MADReaLJL: Jun 23 2008, 01:01 PM

VIVA ESPANA!!!! i a little late with the celebrations but watever! i almost heart attack last night and i sincerely hope we can play well against russia. we certainly play better when we were the underdogs!

I don't think Alonso would come into the team as he play similar role like Senna. It is most likely that Xavi would be drop in the next game to accomodate Fabregas. He is quite influential when he came on as a sub in last night game. I think Spain would find Russia won't be that easy to play like the first time. Russia has significantly improve over the course of the tournament under Hiddink. Like most of you pointed out Spain width is coming from their fullbacks. At the current moment there is no natural winger in the squad as most of the midfielders then to drift inside. If Aragones include Joaquin in the squad perhaps he has that option in his disposal. I haven't watch much La Liga nowadays to judge his performance for Valencia. Perhaps the poor form in club level is the reason why he is not being selected in the squad.

this is absolutely the problem for spain..you see, 4-4-2 system is usually a high tempo system, and normally require wingers..to add speed and width to the gameplay..

when aragones picked up his final squad i thought he will play with 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 system..there are only 2 wingers in the squad: cazorla and silva..the rest of the midfielders, are playmaking-minded..hence, i think its logical for aragones to play a system that give room for his midfield to demostrate creativity..

iniesta certainly cant play in winger position for god sake..he dont have the speed..and playing there didnt give him enuff room to demonstrate his creativity..moreover he was up against tough italian defenders..how can he do the winger's job..even cazorla, a winger, had dificulties to play during the match..

its not that im suggesting that playing with 2 strikers is bad for spain, but i think with the set of players that spain have for the tournament, spain have to play 4-3-3..maybe silva-torres-villa combination upfront..and xavi-senna-iniesta in midfield..

and i dun think cesc performed much better than xavi..cesc oso have difficulties similar to iniesta's..lack of room in in midfield..and guiza cant connect well with his passes

Personally I don't think Silva is a winger. He is more like an attacking midfielder as he tends to drift into the centre. That is the reason why Spain is using their fullback to provide them the natural width. I think Hiddink might employ the same tactics like the Italian as the Spanish are unable to score. This time it might work as Russia play really well against Holland and confident must be high in their camp at the moment. Aragones would have to come out with a formula to outwit Hiddink.

but he certainly can play as one of the three-pronged forward line..this type of attacking line doesnt require wingers..they juz need forwards that are creative enuff to unlock the defence..once the forwards unlock the defence, juz imagine how effective those superb passing ability of iniesta and xavi can be..

maybe some would say iniesta's pasing is not that good..actually i think he didnt performed really well to his true standard..most probably bcoz of his position

and i believe the reason why xavi had to always hold the ball is bcoz villa and torres didnt do their job, defence-penetrating forward runs..believe me, i know this bcoz this also happened when xavi played for barca this season..

anyone remember tiki-taka word?that means pass and move..and spain were widely claimed to use this tactic for this tournament..against italy this didnt happened..

to summarize, i think if aragones wanted to play like this, he needs to change to 4-3-3..i believe cesc also can be more effective with this system as he will be allowed more freedom bcoz there 2 more midfielders at his position..cesc or iniesta in the middle..either one..but for aragones, xavi is very important in his gameplay..bcoz many of spain's attack will start from him..defenders always passed the ball to xavi after they get the ball from opponents..

This post has been edited by matyrze: Jun 23 2008, 03:11 PM

With all due respect a midfield trio of Xavi-Senna-Iniesta is doomed to fail. It hasn't worked for Barca and there is no reason it would work for Spain as well. For a midfield 3 to work you need a dynamic player who can play from box to box. The only midfielder capable of doing that for Spain is Fabregas. And you can't say Villa and Torres didn't do their jobs. Xavi just didn't release the ball quick enough to exploit their pace. It's difficult to play the tiki-taka style when you have forwards that are more suited to the direct system. So who do you sacrifice? Villa/Torres or Xavi. It's an easy choice in my book.

that is why i said earlier, xavi has to be kept in the 1st team..senna has a guaranteed place..and that one slot left is up to aragones..either iniesta and cesc..

i picked iniesta earlier bcoz..hmm..maybe bcoz im barca fan? ..but i admit cesc maybe more effective than iniesta this time

so my answer is, iniesta should be sacrificed to bring cesc into the team..others should be kept





This post has been edited by matyrze: Jun 23 2008, 03:39 PM

Villa have good chance to be top scorer

now only Pavlyuchenko,Podolski,Arda Turan and Ballack can deny it

This post has been edited by faris21: Jun 23 2008, 06:19 PM

yup agree with u.when he got the ball i just wanna see something magic from his feet.little tiny player with a super long range shot...

Is it just me, or i noticed none of Silva's many shots were on target in the Italy game?

still, the shots are all gud enuff, considering how the italians defended..all defenders were concentrating on preventing any hole in their last line, while the midfielders, especially ambrosini, and sometimes even perrotta, always closed down on spain players who attempted long shots..

against such defending tactics, there are not many attackers who can manage accurate long shots..silva should be credited for his efforts

btw, who was Man of the Match?

UEFA pick Casillas as Man of the Match and he deserve to get it,he not just save two penalty but save many Italian SOT

if no Casillas i think tis match Italy will win more easy...