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 Expired TNG cards - the RM270m a year scam

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TSAhBeng2.0
post Oct 6 2022, 04:28 PM, updated 4y ago

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Expressway operator Plus and a related company Touch ’n Go are jointly operating an archaic, monopolistic, needless payment system for tolls which could cost the driving public as much as RM270 million each year from card expiries alone in future.

And it keeps the payment system from progressing to something much more superior and which has the capacity to reduce traffic jams and eliminate toll booths throughout the country as has been done in some countries.

It is unthinkable they continue to do this, simultaneously stopping other toll operators in the country from progressing too. Part of the reason is an incestuous link between Plus, one of its major controlling shareholders, and Touch ’n Go.

National sovereign fund Khazanah Nasional, through UEM Group Bhd, owns 51 percent of Plus while the Employees Provident Fund (EPF) holds the remaining 49 percent. Touch ’n Go is wholly owned by banking entity CIMB Group which is in turn 24.7 percent owned by Khazanah, its largest single shareholder. That’s a horribly conflicted state of affairs.

A year ago, Touch ’n Go had 25 million active cards, 15 million Touch ’n Go eWallet users and 1.5 million radio-frequency identification (RFID) tags in its ecosystem, making it the largest such provider in Malaysia by far.

That’s no doubt due to the fact that you currently cannot travel the tolled highways in Malaysia without a Touch ’n Go card - cash has been eliminated and you can’t use credit cards. Because of a monopoly on highways, Touch ’n Go has made great strides - at the expense of the driving public.

My calculations (elaborated later) indicate that Touch ’n Go can make as much as RM190 million a year from expired cards alone. The new cards have an expiry period of seven years, 30 percent less (older cards have expiry period of 10 years), so earnings from expiries will go up some 43 percent or to over RM270 million per year in future, according to my back-of-the-envelope calculations.

Let me tell the story.

The other day I was driving from Setia Alam to the North-South Expressway operated by Plus for my usual regular trip into town. I moved into the SmartTag lane and lifted my tag up, only for the screen to indicate the card had expired.

What, an expired card when I just topped up RM100 and there was some RM80 left on it? How could that be? Why should there be an expiry date on it when it could still be topped up? Why was there no warning when it was going to expire?

I made my protests to the person who came up to my car window. Do you have another card, she asked. I said, no. She asked for my identity card. You could use that as your Touch ’n Go card and top up on the other side, she said. When I flashed my IC, the boom went up and I heaved a sigh of relief.

Next stop

Not wanting to argue anymore and to avoid a long line behind me, I acceded and headed towards the Damansara toll, my exit point, where I flashed my IC and an alarm went off which prompted a male attendant to saunter over to me.

Can I top up my old card here, I asked. You have to go to the Touch ’n Go office and do that as it is expired, he said. The lady at the other end had said I could give up my card and get a new one and get a refund online. So much trouble for something so small.

I remember, Plus’ major toll booths had an office to handle this but the gentleman said no more. He himself, he added, had three Touch ’n Go cards which were expired and could not be used anymore.

You could load the IC (which is also a Touch ’n Go card), he said but I explained that I use the SmartTag and I can't very well leave my IC there all the time. He was sympathetic. Yes, raise the complaint, he said. But meantime, if I settled in cash I could move through the gate, he said, which is what I did.

I found some cards in the glovebox and asked him to check if they could be used - one of them could be. And I used that for my trip back home later. When I reached home, I checked all three of my cards. At the back, in small letters, was the expiry month - 10/22 it said for the recently expired card.

I reflected a bit - let’s say Touch ’n Go had 30 million cards by now - it had 25 million a year ago - it is not an exorbitant figure considering you can no longer use cash on highways and the system does not permit credit cards.

On average some three million cards will expire every year, if the lifetime was 10 years. So here is my first question, why have an expiry date if the card is still okay? Mine certainly was, money could be uploaded.

Now, if three million cards expire every year, you have to replace them at a cost of RM10 each. That means RM30 million per year for Touch ’n Go, free without having to lift so much as a finger.

Let’s say you bought the RFID strip, which probably costs a few cents, you pay RM35 each (SmartTags are being phased out by the way). If one third of card expiries opted for RFIDs, that’s RM35 million more per year on one million expiries.

And then, the money remaining on the expired cards - one of the Plus people told me you get refunds online or go to their office, of which there are two in Kuala Lumpur to get the refunds. My three cards have some RM100 on them in total and for one of them you can’t see the registration number anymore. So you can’t do anything online.

If I don’t seek refunds, that’s RM100 down the drain but I have to go to a lot of trouble to retrieve it. Let’s assume a quarter of the cards expiring don’t go for refunds and each has RM50 on them. That’s 2.5 million cards multiplied by 50.

That works out to a cool RM125 million a year, making the total a humongous RM190 million (30+35+125) a year from card expiries alone! What a fantastic business!

Easy money

That’s not the end of the story. I got a new Touch ’n Go card by the way, and realised that it now expires in seven years, not 10. In the future, that indicates a 43 percent increase in the expiry rate per year and therefore a revenue 42 percent higher, or RM270 million, instead of RM190 million a year merely from expiries! Such easy money!

My second question, why can’t credit cards be allowed for payment on highways? Car parks are already using them. All the major tolled highways I have travelled through in the world have payments through credit cards. Why can’t highways in Malaysia?

If you don’t have a Touch ’n Go card, you can’t use highways in Malaysia. Why is that? Even the new RFID system which enables you to pass through a toll booth without having to flash a card or use the SmartTag, which is typically tied to Touch ‘n Go. Why do Plus and other highways permit this ridiculous monopoly and inconvenience to the public?

There is a much superior system. Some three years ago, I travelled through Norway on a driving trip using a rental car. I did not pass through a single toll booth, but when I returned the car, there was a charge for tolls.

They have a device installed on the car which automatically records charges for tolls. Surely something simple like that system can be installed, obviating the need for toll booths completely. Drivers can subscribe to such a system and pay monthly, much like electricity. So much simpler and I dare say cheaper.

And so, my final question: Plus, as the leading highway operator in Malaysia and one of the largest toll operators in the world, why can’t you simply install that system here, save yourself a lot of money and cut the apron strings off the incestuous relationship with Touch ’n Go?

And I have not even begun talking about the poor state of your highways and their maintenance yet. - Mkini
rooney723
post Oct 6 2022, 04:32 PM

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erm, this guy dont know that its free to replace the expired cards?
hightechgadgets8
post Oct 6 2022, 04:32 PM

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when you try to ask for refund

they send you this

user posted image
lonely66
post Oct 6 2022, 04:33 PM

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bumi ini milik siapa bruce.gif
ceras
post Oct 6 2022, 04:34 PM

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when you have monopoly, you have inefficiency. period.
mushigen
post Oct 6 2022, 04:34 PM

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And so, my final question: Plus, as the leading highway operator in Malaysia and one of the largest toll operators in the world, why can’t you simply install that system here, save yourself a lot of money and cut the apron strings off the incestuous relationship with Touch ’n Go?

In a country where many don't even bother to pay police fines, how does the writer expect barrier-free toll collection to work?
miaopurr
post Oct 6 2022, 04:36 PM

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QUOTE(hightechgadgets8 @ Oct 6 2022, 04:32 PM)
when you try to ask for refund

they send you this

user posted image
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reason being?

i received mine
dark_axl21
post Oct 6 2022, 04:36 PM

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That's what you get when you place a monopoly in the system.

Bukan saja 'kerajaan' gagal, Malaysia juga 'gagal'.
TSAhBeng2.0
post Oct 6 2022, 04:36 PM

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QUOTE(rooney723 @ Oct 6 2022, 04:32 PM)
erm, this guy dont know that its free to replace the expired cards?
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But you have to do it in person at only one location in KL. What about other people in other states? AFAIK, cannot even post it to them for renewal. TNG is a scam outfit protected by GLCs.
hightechgadgets8
post Oct 6 2022, 04:38 PM

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QUOTE(miaopurr @ Oct 6 2022, 04:36 PM)
reason being?

i received mine
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That email was the only reply given.
zerorating
post Oct 6 2022, 04:39 PM

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QUOTE(rooney723 @ Oct 6 2022, 04:32 PM)
erm, this guy dont know that its free to replace the expired cards?
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how many tng service center out there?
unless you have tons of balance, i just pay rm10 for new card instead.
msacras
post Oct 6 2022, 04:39 PM

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QUOTE(ceras @ Oct 6 2022, 04:34 PM)
when you have monopoly, you have inefficiency. period.
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LHDN - “am I a joke to you?”
TSAhBeng2.0
post Oct 6 2022, 04:41 PM

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QUOTE(mushigen @ Oct 6 2022, 04:34 PM)
And so, my final question: Plus, as the leading highway operator in Malaysia and one of the largest toll operators in the world, why can’t you simply install that system here, save yourself a lot of money and cut the apron strings off the incestuous relationship with Touch ’n Go?

In a country where many don't even bother to pay police fines, how does the writer expect barrier-free toll collection to work?
*
Tie it to the driver licence. If no pay, your lesen gantung and if you get caught with no lesen, your vehicle will be compounded and towed at your expense. Still have to pay saman, tow fee, car storage fee.

The truth is, we shouldnt even have to pay toll anymore. Where is all the AP fees, JPJ fees, road tax etc going to?
9m2w
post Oct 6 2022, 04:42 PM

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QUOTE(mushigen @ Oct 6 2022, 04:34 PM)
And so, my final question: Plus, as the leading highway operator in Malaysia and one of the largest toll operators in the world, why can’t you simply install that system here, save yourself a lot of money and cut the apron strings off the incestuous relationship with Touch ’n Go?

In a country where many don't even bother to pay police fines, how does the writer expect barrier-free toll collection to work?
*
Also to add this is a country where ppl tailgate you to get free toll

Barrier free toll can work if enforcement is damn strict
Matchy
post Oct 6 2022, 04:42 PM

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pretty sure credit card also have expiry date...
Thebestscammer
post Oct 6 2022, 04:43 PM

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the moment they enforce the expiry date of the card its already a rigged game for everyone already
why would a tng card have expiry date to begin with?
ive applied for a refund from my expired card and its been a couple of months and still no news
granted it was just rm15-20 in it but the issue still stands. imagine if the amount is 50-100 and multiply that with 10k-100k people in the last 5-10 years
ez money yo
wasnt there a statistic research done that indicates that there are alot of 'lost' money due to expired gift cards or misplaced money and for an individual that amount is like up to 10k on avg per lifetime lol
this is why i should train crows to pick up money for me on the street
and sorry in advance to the street performers if one of my trained crows end up stealing from you lmao
mroys@lyn
post Oct 6 2022, 04:43 PM

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got longer version?
pisces88
post Oct 6 2022, 04:45 PM

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Lets make petition for touchngo to have automatic machines to replace expired cards n give refunds
TSAhBeng2.0
post Oct 6 2022, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(zerorating @ Oct 6 2022, 04:39 PM)
how many tng service center out there?
unless you have tons of balance, i just pay rm10 for new card instead.
*
That's exactly what TNG wants you to do and also what the Mkini columnist is alluding to - by making it so hard to renew your expired cards, they hope for you to just buy new ones and forgo your RM10 original cards. At millions of users, this adds up quickly.
marfccy
post Oct 6 2022, 04:46 PM

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wait, so tng expires even if you reload often?

im using watson tng since ages, until todei still havent expire. same case anot
TSAhBeng2.0
post Oct 6 2022, 04:47 PM

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QUOTE(pisces88 @ Oct 6 2022, 04:45 PM)
Lets make petition for touchngo to have automatic machines to replace expired cards n give refunds
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I'll sign it
zerorating
post Oct 6 2022, 04:48 PM

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QUOTE(marfccy @ Oct 6 2022, 04:46 PM)
wait, so tng expires even if you reload often?

im using watson tng since ages, until todei still havent expire. same case anot
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your card has expiry date.
anakkk
post Oct 6 2022, 04:48 PM

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very long read
marfccy
post Oct 6 2022, 04:49 PM

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QUOTE(zerorating @ Oct 6 2022, 04:48 PM)
your card has expiry date.
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went to check, 10 years, so by 2025...
RViN
post Oct 6 2022, 04:50 PM

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Getting a refund is easy, can do through an online request.

Getting a replacement card though you have to go to the ONE service centre they have in KL Sentral IN PERSON to send your expired card in and receive a new one (and it may be rejected if its 'damaged').

Pretty sure they do this is because they don't want people to exchange it, but they "technically" allow free exchange of expired cards so that clowns like the fella in here can say "can change for free what bodo".
yhtan
post Oct 6 2022, 04:52 PM

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Who wrote that articles or wall of text of complain, the credit balance remain untouch will transfer to unclaimed money lah, Touch & Go cannot recognize those credit balance as income
kopiride
post Oct 6 2022, 04:52 PM

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the writer already got her answer but still asking why.
Obviously is about making free money. Not just the free hundreds of milions. Don't forget the interest they earn having the money sitting there or being used for other purpose.
damnguy36
post Oct 6 2022, 04:54 PM

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QUOTE(mushigen @ Oct 6 2022, 04:34 PM)
And so, my final question: Plus, as the leading highway operator in Malaysia and one of the largest toll operators in the world, why can’t you simply install that system here, save yourself a lot of money and cut the apron strings off the incestuous relationship with Touch ’n Go?

In a country where many don't even bother to pay police fines, how does the writer expect barrier-free toll collection to work?
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comparing Malaysia with norway biggrin.gif
mac_mac21
post Oct 6 2022, 04:54 PM

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Malaysia got highway?

Paying so much money to travel on narrow 2 lane road is not a highway
netmatrix
post Oct 6 2022, 04:54 PM

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QUOTE(rooney723 @ Oct 6 2022, 04:32 PM)
erm, this guy dont know that its free to replace the expired cards?
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They charge you money to transfer balance from 1 card to another card. So its not really free as you assume it is.
karazure
post Oct 6 2022, 04:55 PM

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QUOTE(rooney723 @ Oct 6 2022, 04:32 PM)
erm, this guy dont know that its free to replace the expired cards?
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do you know its not free to transfer balance fund from old card??? and dont even start on the paperwork

This post has been edited by karazure: Oct 6 2022, 04:55 PM
ceras
post Oct 6 2022, 04:56 PM

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QUOTE(Matchy @ Oct 6 2022, 04:42 PM)
pretty sure credit card also have expiry date...
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credit cards are replaced FREE
taitianhin
post Oct 6 2022, 04:57 PM

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The point is....SG has a choice for RFID for Car with different Vendor...
We dont....probably never will
BuKeYi
post Oct 6 2022, 04:58 PM

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I got one tng card which is inactive after 6mths of inactivity and they had terminate it. If need to reactivate it, will charge service fees RM5 on every 6 months of inactivity.

If let say I didn't use it for a year, then it will charge me twice just to activate it...bloody hell
knumskul
post Oct 6 2022, 05:10 PM

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QUOTE(9m2w @ Oct 6 2022, 04:42 PM)
Also to add this is a country where ppl tailgate you to get free toll

Barrier free toll can work if enforcement is damn strict
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Solving tailgating behaviour by removing barriers at tolls.

Cukurrrrr rclxm9.gif
9m2w
post Oct 6 2022, 05:15 PM

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QUOTE(yhtan @ Oct 6 2022, 04:52 PM)
Who wrote that articles or wall of text of complain, the credit balance remain untouch will transfer to unclaimed money lah, Touch & Go cannot recognize those credit balance as income
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Actually for accounting purposes. Balance not utilised is also not recognised as income right?
yhtan
post Oct 6 2022, 05:19 PM

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QUOTE(9m2w @ Oct 6 2022, 05:15 PM)
Actually for accounting purposes. Balance not utilised is also not recognised as income right?
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Customer money cannot recognize as income, macam bank customer account balance, after 1 year inactive masuk unclaimed money.
kipsydc
post Oct 6 2022, 05:45 PM

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Lucky I use Maybank Zing-A-Ling card
whyamiblack
post Oct 6 2022, 05:50 PM

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QUOTE(hightechgadgets8 @ Oct 6 2022, 04:32 PM)
when you try to ask for refund

they send you this

user posted image
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Odd, mine went pretty smooth last I remembered but quite long time ago la.
TSAhBeng2.0
post Oct 6 2022, 06:01 PM

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QUOTE(mac_mac21 @ Oct 6 2022, 04:54 PM)
Malaysia got highway?

Paying so much  money to travel on narrow 2 lane road is not a highway
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2 lane highway still highway la but i agree with you, everytime i enter johor want to mad.gif from 4 lanes to 2 lanes.
Brotherjoe
post Oct 6 2022, 06:09 PM

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QUOTE(rooney723 @ Oct 6 2022, 04:32 PM)
erm, this guy dont know that its free to replace the expired cards?
*
i replaced my for RM10 at Juru toll TnG booth. Mana ada free. they deduct it when transfering the card.
Somemore card can be disabled if not use for 1 year. and activation fee is RM10.. buta buta pay them.
TSAhBeng2.0
post Oct 6 2022, 06:18 PM

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QUOTE(Brotherjoe @ Oct 6 2022, 06:09 PM)
i replaced my for RM10 at Juru toll TnG booth. Mana ada free. they deduct it when transfering the card.
Somemore card can be disabled if not use for 1 year. and activation fee is RM10.. buta buta pay them.
*
That is so BULLSHIET! How are they getting away with this? Msia really no consumer protection. Harapkan pagar, pagar rogol u....RAW!


kitzai
post Oct 6 2022, 06:19 PM

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QUOTE(Matchy @ Oct 6 2022, 04:42 PM)
pretty sure credit card also have expiry date...
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More proper if u use debit to compare.
Yes it can expire, and horror is when expire your money in bank temporary frozen(closed) until you apply and refund it to you.
Such a hassle.
LA773
post Oct 6 2022, 06:21 PM

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I had same issue
Expired during mco, now want to refund also can't see the card serial number
soul78
post Oct 6 2022, 06:25 PM

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that's why... monoopoly sampaii SCAMMER babi butohhh....
should just implement cc wave and i will use it rather shitty inconsistent RFID farks...

Failed implementation...
Failed technology...

pgsiemkia
post Oct 6 2022, 06:26 PM

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QUOTE(rooney723 @ Oct 6 2022, 04:32 PM)
erm, this guy dont know that its free to replace the expired cards?
*
Where got? I had to buy new cards at Pg bridge office when my 10yr old card expired.

This post has been edited by pgsiemkia: Oct 6 2022, 06:26 PM
amandamai
post Oct 6 2022, 06:29 PM

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QUOTE(marfccy @ Oct 6 2022, 04:46 PM)
wait, so tng expires even if you reload often?

im using watson tng since ages, until todei still havent expire. same case anot
*
you can check its expiry date when you add the tng card in your tng ewallet app. need serial number for registration,which you get from the receipt when you reload

even tng on MyKad has expiry date. but idk what will happen after

QUOTE(karazure @ Oct 6 2022, 04:55 PM)
do you know its not free to transfer balance fund from old card??? and dont even start on the paperwork
*
how much is the transfer fee?
delon85
post Oct 6 2022, 06:35 PM

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QUOTE(Matchy @ Oct 6 2022, 04:42 PM)
pretty sure credit card also have expiry date...
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Easy to replace and banks just mail to you the replacement.

When you last received replacement TnG card via mail?
ThirdSon
post Oct 6 2022, 06:38 PM

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i think i still have a couple of touch & go cards lying around somewhere the few times i was in KL / Malaya
mushigen
post Oct 6 2022, 06:53 PM

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QUOTE(9m2w @ Oct 6 2022, 04:42 PM)
Also to add this is a country where ppl tailgate you to get free toll

Barrier free toll can work if enforcement is damn strict
*
With barrier-free system, no need to tailgate dy.

Even if tie-in to car road tax, it's going to incur additional costs and some fellas drive with expired road tax like a boss.
Johannlo
post Oct 6 2022, 06:53 PM

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A lot of people don’t know that it’s not that TNG want to expire their cards after 10 years.

The underlying MIFARE Classic technology by NXP used in their card is the bottleneck here. They have write endurance of approx 10 years only. You can search the data sheet on Google.

After 10 years, the reliability of a stored card value will be diminished and one day your card can’t be read anymore with the card balance may get corrupted. It’s somewhat like a SSD.
darkterror15
post Oct 6 2022, 07:05 PM

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QUOTE(marfccy @ Oct 6 2022, 04:46 PM)
wait, so tng expires even if you reload often?

im using watson tng since ages, until todei still havent expire. same case anot
*
tng card comes with expiry date once u receive it. turn to the back. usually it is 10 years.

i spend until almost rm 0 and just throw the card and get a new 1.
iGamer
post Oct 6 2022, 07:06 PM

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TnG in IC no expiry date right?
darkterror15
post Oct 6 2022, 07:07 PM

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QUOTE(Johannlo @ Oct 6 2022, 06:53 PM)
A lot of people don’t know that it’s not that TNG want to expire their cards after 10 years.

The underlying MIFARE Classic technology by NXP used in their card is the bottleneck here. They have write endurance of approx 10 years only. You can search the data sheet on Google.

After 10 years, the reliability of a stored card value will be diminished and one day your card can’t be read anymore with the card balance may get corrupted. It’s somewhat like a SSD.
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ok, but bank mail you ur new replacement card at no extra cost. i dont see why tng cant do that out of courtesy.
marfccy
post Oct 6 2022, 07:07 PM

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QUOTE(amandamai @ Oct 6 2022, 06:29 PM)
you can check its expiry date when you add the tng card in your tng ewallet app. need serial number for registration,which you get from the receipt when you reload

even tng on MyKad has expiry date. but idk what will happen after
how much is the transfer fee?
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QUOTE(darkterror15 @ Oct 6 2022, 07:05 PM)
tng card comes with expiry date once u receive it. turn to the back. usually it is 10 years.

i spend until almost rm 0 and just throw the card and get a new 1.
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yah i saw mine 2025

means soon liao

haiz i thought keep reloading = to keep it alive. man this sucks
stormer.lyn
post Oct 6 2022, 07:18 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,132 posts

Joined: Apr 2014
From: Shah Alam, Selangor
QUOTE(iGamer @ Oct 6 2022, 07:06 PM)
TnG in IC no expiry date right?
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There is an expiry date for your IC TnG. You can check if you register your IC in the TnG portal

user posted image
ashburn98
post Oct 6 2022, 07:28 PM

Runaway train
******
Senior Member
1,570 posts

Joined: Nov 2005
encounter that before. went to TnG Sentral, basically all money inside TnG card over 12 months got sucked away.

don't think your TnG go card write 10 years expiry, your money inside safe.

 

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