It depends on individual what they think they are cleaning, if they think they are cleaning masjid, then they are cleaning masjid, if they think they are cleaning a place, then that's just another place. If they don't believe, then they not believer.

For noon Muslim who cleaning masjid, they don't see it as cleaning a masjid, they not expecting any honor doing it or score any religion merits. They just thought of cleaning a place.

I help cleaning up temple before, but it don't change my stance as atheist and i don't believe in God. I'm just cleaning another statue made of porcelain. I don't pray after cleaning it.

This post has been edited by wanted111who: Dec 30 2021, 10:48 PM

Kalau orang tu nak berzina, dalam kereta jugak diorang boleh buat, iainya tak terhad pada pawagam sahaja. Hal agama ni adalah hal seseorang individu dengan tuhan dia. Mengapa yang lain sibuk sangat nak kawal?

Ni pointnya, nak kawal. Agama yang mengawal ini sesuai digunakkan oleh negara yang bersifat kleptokrat. Diorang nak mengawal warganegara diorang. Kenapa banyak disini reject komunis cina? Sebab mereka pun mengawal. Nak main pc game pun tak boleh, steam dikasi banned.

Cuba tengok indonesia, diorang liberal bab bab agama. Extremist ada jugak, tapi negara mereka ni dijatuhkan oleh para extremist (Aceh, masih ingat lagi tak?). Banyak lagi negara yang dijatuhkan oleh para extremist , kenapa tak belajar dari kesilapan negara negara ni? Tendang keluar extremist extremist ni. Diorang tunggang agama je, malukan agama, bukan agungkan agama.



Cuba tengok ni, ni islam ke? Siapa yang dia bunuh? Amerika? Bukan, yang dia bunuh tu bangsa dia, agama dia jugak.

Ni video dari sudut pandangan opponent/ lawan mereka



Siapa yang kamu nampak? Orang kafir amerika? Bukan, tapi sebaliknya ialah orang yang sama bangsa, sama agama dengan pengebom berani mati yang disesatkan oleh extremist.

This post has been edited by wanted111who: Dec 30 2021, 11:20 PM

Dia tak paham yang mufti ni manusia jugak, bukan tuhan, bukan pengutus.

Lebih lebih lagi, dia tak pernah nampak reply dalam /k yang mengaku dia uztaz, menerangkan mufti ni bagai satu kelab, yang tidak mengizinkan uztaz lain yang tidak bersehaluan dengan mereka join mufti.

Maklumlah, mana mana organisasi pun sama, mesti ada pemimpin, dan yang kat atas tu takkan bagi orang yang tak bersehaluan join organisasi diorang. Politik namanya.

Sikap manusia yang takkan berubah, manusia selalunya mementingkan diri. Semua manusia sama. Baik paderi, baik sami. Percaya diri sendiri, kadang kala kena tanya, tujuan diorang buat sesuatu. Jangan telan bulat bulat.

This post has been edited by wanted111who: Dec 31 2021, 12:27 AM

That's how educated, methodological thinking work, that religion cannot stop prostitution, drug and homosexuality. You just making them goes underground if you forbids them.

And i tell you, no form of punishment will deter them from doing it.

Take drug trafficking for examples, heaviest punishment is death penalty. With that in mind, people still doing drug trafficking. Death also people don't scare, don't stop them from doing it and you assumed religion can?

You believe there is no prostitution in saudi arabia? Or just pretend it isn't happening? You know the meaning of hypocrisy right?

You talk about no one can live in chaos, i totally agree with you here but ask yourself this, what bring order to the society? Religion? Or law?

The way i see it, religion is the one started the chaos out of working systems. In France, people living in order protected by law, then those religion fanatic created chaos. Want to implement muslim law.

Did you see anyone go to saudi arabia wanted to create non religious law in saudi and creating chaos? No right?

Itulah, nampak luaran. Cuba paham betul betul. Apa penyebabnya mereka berani mati? Bukan sebab agama. No no no.

I bagi lagi satu contoh, jepun. Apa penyebab kamikaze? Sayang negara? Bukan. Kita orang pun sayang negara, tapi kita orang takkan pi kamikaze.tepuk dada tanya diri. Jadi apa pendorong nya mereka kamikaze?

Ni jawapan kau



Brain washing sejak dari kecik kecik dan kepercayaan yang keterlaluan.

Ni sebab apa i bawak extremist dalam gambar, mana mana extremist pun sama. Mereka mempunyai kepercayaan yang keterlaluan dan kepercayaan ini bukan dari diri mereka sendiri, tapi ditanamkan pada mereka (mungkin sejak kecik) oleh pihak yang mempunyai kepentingan. Dalam erti kata yang lain, brainwashing.

Bila dah terlalu brainwash, fikiran mereka dah jadi sempit, mereka cuma percaya pada ilmu yang ditanamkan pada mereka, ilmu tu sahih atau tidak, itu lain cerita. Apa yang pasti, mereka percaya dan tiada benda yang boleh mengubah pandangan mereka.

Ini berbahaya pada masyarakat. Kat Malaysia, apa yang kita lihat? Komuniti macam kamu, kena tunggu arahan mufti. Ini maknanya, mereka dah tak fikir guna akal mereka sendiri.

Kamikaze sama, orang suruh pi mati, dia pi mati. Kalau dia guna akal dia untuk fikir, mungkin dia takkan buat.

Ni lagi satu contoh brainwashing mungkin akan lebih senang diterima kamu dan difahami, bagaimana cuci minda berlaku, dan keburukkannya pada masyarakat.



Bukan semua rugi, ada yang untung. Pemimpin duduk dalam office tu untung. Propaganda dicipta untuk basuh minda masyarakat dan mengguntungkan keluarga kim.
Dah tentu, bukan semuanya bodoh, ada yang sedar, namun mereka tak boleh buat apa apa untuk menjatuhkan keluarga kim, sebab majority percaya , bilangan orang yang bodoh melebihi orang yang bijak. Dah terlambat.

Sebelum Malaysia terlambat, baik sedarkan masyarakat.

This post has been edited by wanted111who: Dec 31 2021, 05:42 AM

On the contrary, it doesn't help with islam image.

It create islamophobia,

Not Muslim will see a group of Muslim help to clean up. Then the leader ask them not to. Very bad impression.

All religion teach to embrace humanity, religion reject humanity will not get acknowledgement and suicide bomber doesn't help with their image.

Also forcing it to people like old times don't help. Even Christianity evolved from their inquisition era, created new testament.

Interesting, let me combined some surah to make my narrative that it is ok to help clean other house of worship.

I'm not Muslim, I'm an atheist. I doing it to show how one can use any quran verse and any hadith to suit their needs without picking 100% of its content. For me I'm just using Google. I don't recite 100% of quran.

In the Quran, Allah (swt) says: “Help one another in acts of piety and righteousness. And do not assist each other in acts of sinfulness and transgression. And be aware of Allah. Verily, Allah is severe in punishment” (Quran 5:2).

So quran asked follower to help fellow human. But some ask but they are people of different religion.

In quran, Muslim should respect people from other religion, they have their own God.

“Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians — whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.” (The Holy Quran 2:62 )

“…and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, ‘We are Christians,’ because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant” (The Holy Quran 5:82)

So people asked again, won't it become unintentional shirk because of cleaning house of worship for other religion?

What does quran said?

Say: 'Call upon other (gods) whom ye fancy, besides Allah. They have no power, not the weight of an atom, in the heavens or on earth: No (sort of) share have they therein, nor is any of them a helper to Allah." (34:22)
"Say: "Do ye see what it is ye invoke besides Allah. Show me what it is they have created on earth, or have they a share in the heavens bring me a book (revealed) before this, or any remnant of knowledge (ye may have), if ye are telling the truth!" (46:4)
"Behold, Luqman said to his son by way of instruction: 'O my son! join not in worship (others) with Allah. for false worship is indeed the highest wrong-doing.'" (31:13)

Have to asked the individual, when they clean other house of worship, do they :-

Supplicating, or praying for help, guidance and protection, etc., from others than Allah
Believing that objects have special "powers" of healing or good luck, even if that object includes Quranic writing or some other Islamic symbolism
Finding your purpose in life from material pursuits, desiring and intending for something other than Allah
Obeying others over Allah; showing that you are ready to disobey Allah's guidance when it suits you
Engaging in magic, sorcery or fortune telling that attempts to see the unseen or predict future events -- only Allah knows such things

If they didn't then there is no shirk.

Tldr - im picking abit here, abit there to form my intention, and leaving out other portion of it. My point is if i can do that, anyone can including terrorist.

Only difference is i cannot recite 100% of quran and hadith, neither do i remembered all of it. But a terrorist can, so terrorist word is more credible then mine. People will of course believe those who can recite 100% quran and hadith.

Just need to have good memory, not smart. If I'm into it, just take years to remembered 100% of it, everyone also can, be it 1 year, 10 years or 30 years.

This post has been edited by wanted111who: Jan 1 2022, 01:40 PM

Yes, your right.


Tldr - im picking abit here, abit there to form my intention, and leaving out other portion of it. My point is if i can do that, anyone can including terrorist.

Only difference is i cannot recite 100% of quran and hadith, neither do i remembered all of it. But a terrorist can, so terrorist word is more credible then mine. People will of course believe those who can recite 100% quran and hadith.

Just need to have good memory, not smart. If I'm into it, just take years to remembered 100% of it, everyone also can, be it 1 year, 10 years or 30 years.


Questions is those so called uztaz, do they do the same? Anyone challenge them asking them question? Or it is just one way street of communication? They said, you believe?

Have you question them, if just help and not

Supplicating, or praying for help, guidance and protection, etc., from others than Allah
Believing that objects have special "powers" of healing or good luck, even if that object includes Quranic writing or some other Islamic symbolism
Finding your purpose in life from material pursuits, desiring and intending for something other than Allah
Obeying others over Allah; showing that you are ready to disobey Allah's guidance when it suits you
Engaging in magic, sorcery or fortune telling that attempts to see the unseen or predict future events -- only Allah knows such things


Will it be ok? Have you question them about this verse?

In the Quran, Allah (swt) says: “Help one another in acts of piety and righteousness. And do not assist each other in acts of sinfulness and transgression. And be aware of Allah. Verily, Allah is severe in punishment” (Quran 5:2).

If not, why you don't question your uztaz? The action of not helping contradicting and is a sin.

This post has been edited by wanted111who: Jan 1 2022, 01:51 PM

My point is uztaz said it's wrong, preaching to his follower. You said ok in kopitiam, who are you? Uztaz as well?

Why Muslim touch anything consider sacred to other religion is not ok if those muslim don't see it as sacred? How is it interpreted?

This is problem i see within Muslim community, no question ask, taking it as it is without any understanding. It is moving further away from humanity. Religion leader can plot and twist to suit their needs.

This post has been edited by wanted111who: Jan 1 2022, 02:11 PM

Non muslim like Christian, buddism, hindu have no problem with each other but why only islam?

People said your religion your religion, my religion my religion..

We are good with that until certain religion shoving their belief into others.

I still remember long time ago, there is this one fella in /k who is vegetarian preaching vegetarian lifestyle to /k and saying meat eater is wrong.. he got tembak by all /k Muslim, Christian, buddism, Hindu all united tembak this /k.

We couldn't care and don't have time to care on what you believe as long as it didn't bothers others.
Pakai apa, nak control
Makan minum nak control
Business apa, nak control. Bukan business illegal, ada lesen ada bayar cukai.
Hiburan nak control, censor ni censor tu, bukan kata censor tak betul, semua negara ada censor, av jepun pun ada censor.
Ni sampai nak tolong orang pun nak control.

This post has been edited by wanted111who: Jan 1 2022, 03:06 PM

Inilah masaalah yang dibelenggu muslim. Kepercayaan yang keterlaluan bukan pada agama, tapi pada manusia. Manusia yang kononnya pakar agama.

Kemudiannya wujudnya segelintir manusia ni yang memperalatkan pengikutnya untuk kepentingan peribadi diorang.

I bagi contoh di timur tengah, ada segelintir tok guru menyuruh pengikut dia berjihad. Mereka ni pakar agama, tak boleh dinafikan. Tahu ilmu tauhid, fiqh, sirah, fardhu ain, tafsir, dsb.
Cumanya, mereka menyesongkan pemikiran pengikut mereka untuk kepentingan mereka.
Tu yang jadinya pengebom berani mati atas nama tuhan.

Pointnya disini yang ingin saya tegaskan ialah jangan telan bulat bulat, tanya soalan. Uztaz terangkan melalui kitab, tapi dalam kitab yang sama, ada point point yang bercanggah, tu wujudnya persoalan. Tapi ada nak tanya? Takde.

Sebab mereka rasa ilmu mereka tak sehebat pakar. Hello, tanya untuk dapat lebih kepastian tak salah kan? Uztaz mana yang tak suka orang challenge dia ni tak layak jadi uztaz. Kata nak turunkan ilmu, orang tanya nak dapatkan ilmu takkan tak boleh?

Lagi satu yang i nampak, dalam ceramah 1 jam. Berapa jam ceramah mengajar kemanusiaan, berapa jam mengajar kerohanian dan hukum? Kemanusiaan / humanity itu penting. Tolong mangsa banjir, ni kemanusiaan. Cuba tengok rekod rekod video ceramah. Cuma 10% context kemanusiaan, kadang kala takde langsung menyentuh pasal kemanusiaan. Yang ditegaskan, apa yang tak boleh, dan hukum.

Kalau gitu, mufti penang kata boleh, uztaz turkey kata boleh, ni macam mana? Siapa betul, siapa salah?

Syirik tu apa? Macam mana boleh syirik? Orang yang bersihkan tempat ibadah lain tapi tak ada kepercayaan, tak ada sembah, niat cuma nak tolong mangsa banjir, esok masih pergi masjid sembahyang, tu syirik?

Kata Allah maha kuasa, serba tahu, amalan sembahyang tak elok (syirik) pun dia tahu , takkan orang yang tolong bersihkan tu ada sembah x de dan niat mereka allah tak tahu?

I tak tau pasal islam, tapi pada sudut pandangan kristian, hindu, buddhism, orang tu telah berbuat sesuatu perkara yang baik. Patut digalakkan niat untuk membantu mangsa banjir dan tidak sepatutnya diketepikan.

This post has been edited by wanted111who: Jan 3 2022, 06:38 PM

Kalau tak impak masyarakat, i pun takde masa nak layan.

Jangan kata islam, kuil dan gereja pun i takde masa nak pergi.
Masaalahnya bila ianya memberikan kesan pada kehidupan harian i. Itu menyebabkan suatu masaalah bagi i, baru i bersuara.

Contohnya, i pi supermarket, beli daging, dulu i tak perlu jalan satu round besar pi non halal seksyen. Bayar boleh bayar semua kat satu kaunter.

Sekarang, nak beli ikan , ayam, kena pergi satu seksyen, bayar. Pastu heret satu dua bungkus pi seksyen non halal, kena letak bungkusan yang baru dibeli kat pak guard masuk beli pastu kena bayar berasingan. Menyusahkan.

Bab ni boleh kita terima, hidup bermasyarakat, susah sikit takpe. Pastu, sekarang ni, toto magnum nak beli, hari cabutan dikurangkan. Okay, kurangkan judi pun baik jugak

Pastu ada mintak alkohol tak boleh dijual, ni haram jadah mana ni yang menyusahkan kehidupan orang lain?

Ni lagi satu, pada bulan puasa. Nak puasa orang tak halang, tapi yang pi halang orang tak puasa makan sebab apa? Logiknya mana? Hukum agama apa korang pakai menghalang orang yang tak wajib puasa makan? Nak bukak kedai makan (bulan puasa) buat business pun tak bagi. Ni quran mana, hadith mana yang dipetik suruh buat gitu?

Pastu, kata orang islamophobia bila kita bersuara.

This post has been edited by wanted111who: Jan 3 2022, 07:31 PM

We nons can't say anything, but please stop your brothers and sisters from this madness. Our parents and grandparents time , those who is Muslim is practicing islam as well. Is the new generation now saying the older generation practicing islam wrongly? All muslim who lived in the past / our ancestors will be burned in hell? Why the changes? Or the need to changes?

When we asked to change so it suit modern time, some said islam shouldn't change and should stay true to tradition. Then making changes unlike what been practice in the '60 or even before that. If don't want change, why islam today different then in the 1960?

Tunku abdul rahman , bapa malaysia is a muslim. But his islamic practice is totally different. Even najib father also is a muslim and had been our pm for a term. So his father is practicing wrong version of islam as well?

This post has been edited by wanted111who: Jan 3 2022, 09:33 PM

Best reply is reply from own shooting own foot.

Keyword :They must force others to be exactly like them

Shoving their belief into other,
look at mirror u will find hyprocracy.

This post has been edited by wanted111who: Jan 4 2022, 05:06 PM

My point is , non muslim do not have what's haram to you, why want force people to follow you?

The law of nation allowed license gambling, allow sales of alcohol.

Why puasa you want force restaurant to close? Why you want limit the day for 4d draw?

Why community go other people business make huh hah and forbid people placing alcohol drink in their fridge? Why want to go other people shop make huh hah they selling paint brush made of pig fur? They ask you to jilat it?

Why want make noise of cadbury chocolate?

This post has been edited by wanted111who: Jan 4 2022, 10:55 PM

Sekarang ni bulan puasa, Elok kita renungkan kembali apa yang kita buat tahun lepas 😂😂


Kenapa u butthurt? Kantoi ke?

This post has been edited by wanted111who: Apr 5 2022, 06:07 AM