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 Repair Gearbox or Change?, First time considering.

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TSandrewshim
post Nov 17 2021, 12:35 PM, updated 5y ago

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Perodua Kenari Move 2002.
Called 2 gearbox shops in Klang. They said to overhaul same price as replace with recon gearbox.
What are the pros and cons?
I was thinking if repair, I'm sure it's my gearbox. But might take longer....
If replace with recon, faster, but...

Can anybody help and old uncle please?
TSandrewshim
post Nov 17 2021, 03:01 PM

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QUOTE(gold member @ Nov 17 2021, 02:50 PM)
I will choose to overhaul simply because you don't know how the recon one was done. Overhaul meaning you still have the control on the quality of the gearbox but of course, find the one with good workmanship.
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Exactly what I'm thinking... but how do I know if they really overhaul my gearbox or just swap? Because I have to leave my car, I cannot be there for hours. Is there a serial number or something on the gearbox? Sorry if this is a stupid question.

Found a gearbox shop in Kapar... good Google reviews. But I still feel like it's tikam lah...
TSandrewshim
post Nov 17 2021, 03:04 PM

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QUOTE(littlefire @ Nov 17 2021, 02:50 PM)
Repair or Recon should be similar

Another option is get gearbox from halfcut shop. If it is cheaper a lot can consider halfcut option, i also change my Kelisa gearbox few years back with halfcut unit, halfcut shop also can offer warranty nowadays.
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I was also thinking of this, but half-cut usually means they salvage the parts right? That means I could be buying a unit that also could have the same problems as my current gearbox or worse right? It's not like I know how to tell a good or bad gearbox....
TSandrewshim
post Nov 18 2021, 07:21 PM

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QUOTE(speedy3210 @ Nov 18 2021, 08:48 AM)
What's the problem are you encountering with the transmission now? Mind telling more why you came to conclusion you MUST replace/overhaul it?
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Ha!!! GOOOOD Question. I wanted to ask this in the beginning, but was thinking it's 2 separate issues. Now that I think about it, I SHOULD HAVE asked this first yes?

Basically, it's occasional delayed engagement. Sometimes, press accelerator, rpm goes to (sometimes) 2000rpm, then only gear engages. Does not happen all the time. I already changed gear oil and gearbox filter. Foreman says most likely cause is gearbox failing. Am wondering if there could be other issue before I simply change/overhaul gearbox. Also... when is it OBVIOUS that I need to change gearbox?
TSandrewshim
post Nov 19 2021, 12:20 AM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Nov 18 2021, 07:32 PM)
yes should have asked that first

1) use lubegard platinum or K&W /KW TransX high mileage ATF treatment
2) change another ATF, use back your car model oil, perodua ATF, or Aisin ATF
3) no need change/overhaul gearbox unless you encountering leaking or completely unable to change gear.
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Well that makes me feel a whole lot better. I was thinking to do that. You know... I have been with my foreman for nearly 20 years, but mechanic is still human need to feed his family... as much as I want to trust him... I always think to ask sifus first. Then they might say something that makes complete sense like you. Thanks!

TSandrewshim
post Nov 19 2021, 12:23 AM

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QUOTE(andrewshim @ Nov 19 2021, 12:20 AM)
Well that makes me feel a whole lot better. I was thinking to do that. You know... I have been with my foreman for nearly 20 years, but mechanic is still human need to feed his family... as much as I want to trust him... I always think to ask sifus first. Then they might say something that makes complete sense like you. Thanks!
*
Lubeguard platinum seems like kaw lube treatment. My car nearly 20 years old. Can use?

Petronas Tutela ATF. This okay?

This post has been edited by andrewshim: Nov 19 2021, 12:36 AM
TSandrewshim
post Nov 19 2021, 12:40 AM

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QUOTE(speedy3210 @ Nov 18 2021, 08:14 PM)
What ATF are AND were you using? meaning b4 the service what ATF did you use? In your car now what ATF are you using?

**added**    What's the mileage of your gearbox now? meaning how many kms have you driven over the 18yrs.
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Paiseh... I left the car at mechanic. Don't remember what gear oil. Sis-in-law gave this car to my son to use one year ago. Speedo mileage is approx 160KM,
TSandrewshim
post Nov 19 2021, 12:41 AM

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Can "wrong" gear oil cause delayed engagement?
TSandrewshim
post Nov 19 2021, 12:17 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Nov 19 2021, 12:56 AM)
assuming 160k km, as in 160 000 kilometers, and 20 years, that's a very old car.

varnish/gunk etc will be clogging up the transmission valves and torque converter etc so the functions will be delayed or even completely jammed until the fluids/ATF and transmission is properly warmed up (because fluids thin up/become more smooth after heated up)

even if you change your ATF on time, you only change out a portion of old fluids as a lot of old ATF is still sitting in the torque converter and connecting valves and pumps etc.
so it is of no surprise with the mileage and age of your car, issues start to creep up.

last question: yes, most certainly!
that's why follow owner's manual, follow oil spec.
and when in doubt, using back the manufacturer's (brand of vehicle) own lubricants would be best as most, if not all of the brands will have their on branded lubricants according to their own cars.
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Again... in the words of Yoda... "Very useful knowledge is your words"

I never considered this. Funny thing is... mechanic asked me if I want to go buy my own gear oil or use his. I got no time (translation : lazy) so I ask him to use his gear oil... so I don't know what oil he use.

TSandrewshim
post Nov 19 2021, 12:25 PM

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QUOTE(cempedaklife @ Nov 19 2021, 06:23 AM)
Agree with Quazacolt. Try simple and cheap fix first. Can also try lucas transmisssion fix. Read. It up and watch youtube on it.

If you are ready to spend so much to change gearbox, givr these fix a try. But dont do both at the same time la

Edit: its best to ask what atf your SIL is using. Does this happen when you get the car or only after you change atf? I forgot to share. Im a first owner of my city. Once, i changed atf and atf filter just like you. And a couple months later i started having some issues with my gear box. I didn't think much about the oil change. And issue happen on off for a year. I change the atf again, without doing anything else and viola! Problem solved.

You can try that first too.
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Yes... I believe you guys are correct. Try cheaper solution first. You know lah... when my mechanic said gearbox issue he try his luck and said need to change lor. Immediately I prepare myself for the worst. Then when I calm down, I thought why not I go directly to gearbox shop and ask price etc. Then when I calm down more, I thought better to ask the sifus here with more experience. Turn out it's correct move. You sifus talk a lot of good sense. I will look for ATF and Treatment and maybe do another ATF change. Then wait and see. Gearbox not showing the symptoms that you guys have mentioned (gear cannot change/noise etc). Occasional gear change delay only.

TSandrewshim
post Nov 19 2021, 12:27 PM

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QUOTE(speedy3210 @ Nov 19 2021, 08:14 AM)
It is NOT about brand, it is all about specification. Manufacturer (Daihatsu) already specified DIII fluid as the fluid to be used in your transmission box. So the least you can do is follow the spec.

If you are a hardcore Petronas supporter and will not consider anything else, then buy only Tutela ATF DIII/D3. Alternatively, can use genuine Perodua ATF DIII.

Personal experience; I am using Lubegard Platinum in my Hyundai 4AT and Honda 5AT. Smooth drive all the way. Gone is the darkening (dark brown) or slight burn smell on both transmission. This Honda 5AT is known to konk out faster than local Honda 5AT as it is smaller (due to smaller available space taken up by bigger engine) and handle more torque.

Lubegard has also solved my Hyundai 4AT jerkiness on slow speed drive. This gearbox is nearing 300k kms now and touch wood still buttery smooth for a 4AT. ATF change interval also has been lengthened from 25k km (self imposed limit based on genuine ATF SPIII fluid degradation) to 55-60k km.

If you opt for Lubegard, you have 2 choices; Red or Platinum. Red is cheaper and is meant to be used with OEM ATF fluid spec. Platinum on the other hand is meant as a 1-stop solution for both OEM fluids AND if you want to change standard DIII fluid to high friction modified fluid like SPIII/Type-IV/Z1 etc.

Obviously from above, you don't need to change any fluid characteristic as your Kenari is using neat ATF-DIII. So you can save a few bucks by using Lubegard Red.

I can't speak for other additive brands as I have never used those b4. Lubegard has fluid viscosity like any ATF; thin and will not change the viscosity of ATF. Not sure about K&W TransX High mileage. As for Lucas Transmission Fix, from what I read, it is a very thick additive, so notsure if it will alter ATF viscosity.

Good luck.
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Oh wow... I'm going to have to read your reply slowly a few times and google what you mean... LOL... I really feel like old Uncle now...
Can I buy the lubes you talk about on Shopee? Otherwise I have to go to parts shop to hunt.
TSandrewshim
post Nov 19 2021, 12:29 PM

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OMG guys... you sifus really calming an old Uncle's nerves leh... good thing I decided to ask here. You guys talking reaaaaaallly good sense... I so kan-cheong it make me calm down and think...
TSandrewshim
post Nov 19 2021, 02:45 PM

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Errr... I google... most treatments come about 500ml bottle. How many needed for a Kenari?

Also... you guys go to authorized SC or part shop to buy your ATF? BUy online easier, but is there a lot of fake product? How to tell the diff??

This post has been edited by andrewshim: Nov 19 2021, 02:48 PM
TSandrewshim
post Nov 19 2021, 02:51 PM

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QUOTE(speedy3210 @ Nov 19 2021, 02:46 PM)
Fortunately yes, can be bought from online malls. Just can't guarantee on authenticity coz this is Msia. Just focus on reputable, known distributors with online presence is safer.

Just an example

Dexron III ATF

Aisin AFW Fully Synthetic Dexron III ATF

Genuine Perodua D3 ATF
Lubegard

Lubegard Red

Lubegard Platinum
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Oh man... thank you so much lah... you've been a HUGE help to an old uncle... Kam Sia... Kam Sia...
TSandrewshim
post Nov 27 2021, 09:28 AM

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Update : Using my big brother Google, I read overfilling ATF can also cause slippage etc. So I checked my ATF level... waaaaaay over the HOT marker.

Used hose and syringe and extracted ATF out... about 700 - 800ml overfill. Now reading is in middle of HOT (after 15 minutes running idle). Will test the car for a few days and see if better or not.

In any case, have bought Perodua DIII ATF and KW TransX (extended mileage). Will change the ATF in a few days just to bring everything back to spec. Will let you guys know what happens.
TSandrewshim
post Nov 29 2021, 07:03 PM

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LOL... please don't laugh... hehe... but is this my ATF drain plug? Always change my engine oil/filter/plug/brake pads etc... but NEVER EVER changed ATF before. This will be my first time... LOL... Don't want to buka salah lubang...

user posted image
TSandrewshim
post Nov 29 2021, 09:09 PM

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QUOTE(speedy3210 @ Nov 29 2021, 08:08 PM)
Unker.... no need to be too enthusiastic in changing out your new ATF that soon. Why waste the ATF if it is of correct factory spec? Wait till the next change interval lor.... as the car will be driven by your kids, it will pile up mileage soon enough.
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Thanks for the concern. I really appreciate it.

Problem is I DON'T know if my mechanic followed correct spec or not. I know that they just use the same gear oil from a big drum for all (maybe all???) cars. For my peace of mind, I prefer to spend extra RM100 to personally bring it back to spec (original Perodua DIII + KW TransX treatment) AND maybe help to solve the delayed engagement. I think better not be kiamsiap and to wait and worry everyday that maybe the gearbox is being damaged.

But paiseh to ask again - is the picture correct? Is that my ATF drain plug?
TSandrewshim
post Dec 1 2021, 10:26 AM

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Ok... first time change ATF. So easy leh... for the first part. Pour in the oil take forever because I modify small hose (a bit too small) to a too small funnel.

Added the KW TransX. Then Perodua DIII ATF. So far 2 days no delayed engagement (especially happens in the morning) anymore. Gear change seems smoother. Definitely noticeably smoother from D2 to D3.

Everything seems good now (touch wood). Thank you to all who help old uncle learn new stuff.

 

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