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 In court, Malaysian govt says Sabah-born man, should not be granted citizenship

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TSSrbn
post Oct 22 2021, 10:41 AM, updated 5y ago

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In court, Malaysian govt says Sabah-born man should not be granted citizenship, must do more to prove stateless

KUALA LUMPUR, Oct 21 — The Malaysian government today objected in court to the granting of citizenship to a man who was born 26 years ago in Sabah to a Sarawakian father and a mother of uncertain nationality, arguing that he should have done more to prove that he is stateless or not a citizen of any other country.

Wong Kueng Hui was born on January 2, 1995 in Hospital Keningau, Sabah, and has waited for the past 14 years to finally be recognised as a Malaysian.

His Malaysian father died when he was 10 years old, while his non-Malaysian mother died when he was 17.

Wong had previously applied twice under the Federal Constitution’s Article 15A to be recognised as a Malaysian, but was rejected twice.

(Article 15A states that the Malaysian government may register anyone under the age of 21 as a Malaysian citizen under such special circumstances as it thinks fit.)

The first time Wong had applied was via his stepsister on September 26, 2007 when he was 12 and this was rejected almost three years later via a June 18, 2010 letter when he was 15.

He then applied for the second time through his stepbrother on June 27, 2014 when he was 19.

Wong had previously told the court that he had made frequent checks with the National Registration Department (NRD) in Sabah about his 2014 application’s status but was eventually forced to shift to Kuala Lumpur in December 2017 after being told that it was being handled by the Putrajaya headquarters, and had made frequent checks in December 2017.

It was only on March 21, 2019 when Wong contacted the Home Ministry again that he was told to collect a letter, and he had on the next day then collected the letter dated February 15, 2018 informing him that his second application had been rejected.

Wong said both he and his stepbrothers were never notified of the decision before that and that he had by then turned 24 — which is the age limit for Article 15A citizenship applications.

The Indonesian embassy had previously on June 20, 2019 confirmed that it had not found any records of both Wong and his mother in its passport database, following a request from Wong on June 17, 2019.

Wong then filed a lawsuit through a judicial review on June 20, 2019 to seek several court orders, including to be recognised as a Malaysian citizen.

The High Court had on October 21, 2019 recognised that the Malaysia-born Wong is a stateless person, declaring that he is a Malaysian citizen based on the Federal Constitution’s Second Schedule’s Part II’s Section 1(e) — a provision where those born within Malaysia and are not born a citizen of any other country are entitled under the law to Malaysian citizenship.

The High Court judge Datuk Nordin Hassan had also ordered the NRD director-general to issue a citizenship certificate or identification card to Wong.

But the NRD director-general, home minister and Malaysian government had on October 31, 2019 filed an appeal and had also obtained a stay on the High Court decision. The stay means the High Court’s decision has yet to take effect.

Today was the Court of Appeal’s hearing of the government’s appeal against the High Court’s decision which had recognised Wong as a Malaysian.

Has enough been done to show statelessness?

Senior federal counsel Mohd Izhanudin Alias, who represented the Malaysian government, said Wong is an illegitimate child as there are no records showing his parents married, arguing that Wong will have to follow his mother’s nationality due to his status as an illegitimate child.

While saying it was not disputed that Wong was born in Malaysia as stated in his birth certificate, Izhanudin cited a previous Federal Court decision as well as a constitutional provision to say that Wong as an illegitimate child should take on his mother’s nationality instead of his Malaysian father’s nationality.

Izhanudin was referring to Section 17 in Part III of the Second Schedule in the Federal Constitution, which provides references to an illegitimate person’s “father” or “parent” or “one of his parents” in the Constitution’s citizenship provisions will be interpreted as referring to the person’s mother.

In Wong’s case, Izhanudin said Wong had not done enough to determine his mother’s nationality.

“In this case, the applicant said he is stateless, but when we look at the birth certificate records, it is clearly stated firstly that the mother is of Bugis descent, and there is a number which we are not sure if it is a passport or what record,” he said, referring to an identification number recorded in the birth certificate as part of his mother’s details.

While noting that Wong had carried out a search via the Indonesian embassy in Malaysia which found no records of the passport of his mother, Izhanudin argued that this was insufficient for Wong to satisfy the “burden of proof to prove he is a stateless person”.

At this point, Court of Appeal judge Datuk Gunalan Muniandy sought clarification by noting that Wong is just a layman who does not know his mother’s origins except for the identification number, asking whether the NRD would be in a better position to determine what the serial number shows.

Citing a past Court of Appeal case where a Malaysia-born child had placed advertisements and made public announcements to find out the identity of the unknown biological mother, Izhanudin said the burden of proof is on the applicant to satisfy the Malaysian government of the facts when seeking for Malaysian citizenship.

Izhanudin said Wong had only made a search to one embassy which is the Indonesian embassy, but argued that there were other countries that have Bugis communities other than Indonesia.

Judge Gunalan then asked if it would be a fair assumption to assume Wong’s mother’s possible nationality as Sabah is located close to Indonesia and with many Indonesians living there.

Izhanudin argued that Wong had made the search for his mother’s nationality by allegedly basing it on the assumption that the mother’s identification number refers to her passport, and said that they had allegedly not checked if that number could be referring to an Indonesian identification card, further saying that the search results only showed no record of Indonesian passport but did not show whether the mother is Indonesian or not.

Lawyer asks if Wong has to ask every embassy

Wong’s lawyer Haijan Omar however argued that his client had done all that he could to find out what his late mother’s nationality was by relying on the limited information in the birth certificate, and also stressed that his client is a stateless person with no citizenship in any country and with only Malaysia to call home.

“My client has lived all his life in Malaysia since birth, there is no dispute that he was born in Hospital Keningau, Sabah, nowhere else to go,” he said, noting that Wong was taken care by an unofficial adoptive family after both his parents died.

“His father died when he was very young, that time he was a minor, he didn’t know anything, and currently even when he made the application, he didn’t have any documents of his mother, all he is armed with is his birth certificate, he goes around with his birth certificate,” he said.

Haijan argued that Wong had taken “reasonable steps” to determine his mother’s nationality by checking with the Indonesian embassy using the identification number, further asserting that the Indonesian embassy’s search results showed that the mother is not an Indonesian citizen.

While Court of Appeal judge Datuk Azizah Nawawi noted that the Indonesian embassy had only said the passport number is not registered in its database and did not state whether Wong’s mother is Indonesian or not, Haijan replied: “The Indonesian embassy acknowledged this looks like a passport number but is not registered on the record with the Indonesian embassy.”

Haijan said this supports his client’s position that he does not know what country his mother belongs to, and argued this should remain valid as the Malaysian government did not file affidavits to dispute this.

“He is just a layperson, all he was armed with is his birth certificate, that is the only identification of his mother that he knows of, he used this to check, what more could he do?

“So now, my contention is this, even Indonesia doesn’t recognise the mother as belonging to their citizen, so where does he go to? Does it mean he has to go to all embassies? That would be unreasonable, Yang Arif, all his life he lived without documents,” he said, adding that the Malaysian government did not carry out its own checks to rebut this when they had all the manpower and resources that would enable such checks.

Haijan said the Malaysian government did not via court documents tell Wong that his search with the Indonesian embassy was insufficient to prove his stateless status, and similarly did not tell him to take further steps or to check with other embassies.

“So we don’t know what else we can do, that’s why we came to court,” he said, having described Wong as being stuck in a “limbo” in terms of his bid to be recognised as a Malaysian.

Haijan said Wong could not have been a citizen of any country and is now stateless unless the court intervenes, saying: “He has proved on balance that he was not born a citizen of any country.”

Haijan ultimately argued that the High Court’s decision in favour of Wong is a correct decision that has no errors that could be appealed, and urged the Court of Appeal to uphold the High Court’s decision.

Izhanudin responded by saying that the birth certificate only stated Wong’s mother to be of Bugis descent and did not show she is an Indonesian, while saying that the Indonesian embassy’s search results did not show if there was ever a passport or Indonesian identification card with that serial number.

Arguing that the burden is still on Wong to prove he is a stateless person and that it would not be enough to just do a passport search with the Indonesian embassy, Izhanudin said Wong should have taken additional steps of searching at his birthplace or the medical facility he was born in for information about his mother.

While confirming that the NRD did not in court documents advise Wong to take further steps apart from asking the Indonesian embassy, Izhanudin said Wong should have done more to check that the identification number is neither a passport nor an Indonesian identification card and to not presume it as a passport number.

The government’s appeal today was heard by a three-judge panel chaired by Azizah, with the two other Court of Appeal judges being Datuk Che Mohd Ruzima Ghazali and Gunalan.

When contacted, Haijan told Malay Mail that the Court of Appeal has fixed November 10 for the delivery of the decision.

sos
khaimitoban
post Oct 22 2021, 10:42 AM

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we should continue to use jus soli
SUSM4A1
post Oct 22 2021, 10:43 AM

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born in malaysia
father malaysian

cannot ???????????
s@ni
post Oct 22 2021, 10:46 AM

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Panjang nya.. Tldr version takdak kah
zetshield21
post Oct 22 2021, 10:46 AM

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“In this case, the applicant said he is stateless, but when we look at the birth certificate records, it is clearly stated firstly that the mother is of Bugis descent, and there is a number which we are not sure if it is a passport or what record,”

Najib oso bugis decent can songlap money and get away from it
SUSGreenSamurai
post Oct 22 2021, 10:47 AM

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Wrong race. Too bad for him. If he is master race all this won’t happen.
ikankering
post Oct 22 2021, 10:47 AM

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too long..
lonely66
post Oct 22 2021, 10:47 AM

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QUOTE(M4A1 @ Oct 22 2021, 10:43 AM)
born in malaysia
father malaysian

cannot ???????????
*
Check the name .... If long long name sure no problems ...🥳🥳🥳
maprocks
post Oct 22 2021, 10:48 AM

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nama pun sudah salah
icon_idea.gif icon_idea.gif icon_idea.gif

This post has been edited by maprocks: Oct 22 2021, 10:48 AM
oM41GoD_
post Oct 22 2021, 10:50 AM

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QUOTE(M4A1 @ Oct 22 2021, 10:43 AM)
born in malaysia
father malaysian

cannot ???????????
*
not legally married
if the father is still alive can prove with DNA.

many these kinds of cases in sabah.
COOLPINK
post Oct 22 2021, 10:50 AM

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meanwhile others not born or even related to merehsian are granted........
ikankering
post Oct 22 2021, 10:51 AM

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who mother? unknown?
viole
post Oct 22 2021, 10:51 AM

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QUOTE(M4A1 @ Oct 22 2021, 10:43 AM)
born in malaysia
father malaysian

cannot ???????????
*
Not married, mom not in registered database. Probably PATI?


SUSM4A1
post Oct 22 2021, 10:52 AM

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QUOTE(viole @ Oct 22 2021, 10:51 AM)
Not married, mom not in registered database. Probably PATI?
*
is mom important here?
if dad is malaysian
born here

enough already la
why need mum pulak...
EVEN if mum is russian so ??? hmm.gif laugh.gif
focusrite
post Oct 22 2021, 10:55 AM

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wrong name
khusyairi
post Oct 22 2021, 10:57 AM

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This man problem is that he cant prove his father is a Malaysian. His father is not married, no cert. Then he born in Sabah instead of Sarawak where his father is. His father also died, mean his father also cant help to proof it.

very2 hard...
COOLPINK
post Oct 22 2021, 10:57 AM

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QUOTE(M4A1 @ Oct 22 2021, 10:52 AM)
is mom important here?
if dad is malaysian
born here

enough already la
why need mum pulak...
EVEN if mum is russian so ??? hmm.gif  laugh.gif
*
you are right only one merehsian parent is sufficient to register already.
if not we would have tens or hundreds of thousands of stateless children from single parents already.
touristking
post Oct 22 2021, 10:57 AM

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QUOTE(COOLPINK @ Oct 22 2021, 03:50 AM)
meanwhile others not born or even related to merehsian are granted........
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That is why PH wanted Dr Mahathir as PM. He has made this problem go away before. Google Project M.
viole
post Oct 22 2021, 10:58 AM

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QUOTE(M4A1 @ Oct 22 2021, 10:52 AM)
is mom important here?
if dad is malaysian
born here

enough already la
why need mum pulak...
EVEN if mum is russian so ??? hmm.gif  laugh.gif
*
If not married means the guy is not the dad. How do you prove the guy is the dad?
khusyairi
post Oct 22 2021, 10:58 AM

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QUOTE(M4A1 @ Oct 22 2021, 10:52 AM)
is mom important here?
if dad is malaysian
born here

enough already la
why need mum pulak...
EVEN if mum is russian so ??? hmm.gif  laugh.gif
*
If allowed, every PATI will say they have Malaysian died father (which unrecorded) biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by khusyairi: Oct 22 2021, 10:59 AM
berzerk
post Oct 22 2021, 10:58 AM

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QUOTE(Srbn @ Oct 22 2021, 10:41 AM)
While saying it was not disputed that Wong was born in Malaysia as stated in his birth certificate, Izhanudin cited a previous Federal Court decision as well as a constitutional provision to say that Wong as an illegitimate child should take on his mother’s nationality instead of his Malaysian father’s nationality.

Izhanudin was referring to Section 17 in Part III of the Second Schedule in the Federal Constitution, which provides references to an illegitimate person’s “father” or “parent” or “one of his parents” in the Constitution’s citizenship provisions will be interpreted as referring to the person’s mother.
If this is the law then the law is an ass which should be changed.
Forumer Bertaraf Menteri
post Oct 22 2021, 10:59 AM

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is he vaksin. why his life so hard
Maknusia
post Oct 22 2021, 10:59 AM

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sad case indeed, wonder what happened to common-sense ruling!
tifosi
post Oct 22 2021, 11:00 AM

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If another person with another name same situation, will he stand better chance?
SUSM4A1
post Oct 22 2021, 11:02 AM

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QUOTE(khusyairi @ Oct 22 2021, 10:58 AM)
If allowed, every PATI will say they have Malaysian died father (which unrecorded) biggrin.gif
*
he was born in 1995 sabah hospital
that time his father not yet die....his father only die when he was 10.

when he was first born, what was stated on his birth cert? should be his father name.
isnt that enough?
tungfunglaw
post Oct 22 2021, 11:03 AM

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QUOTE(s@ni @ Oct 22 2021, 10:46 AM)
Panjang nya.. Tldr version takdak kah
*
JPN is knnccb... making life hard for stateless ppl.

those cb ppl working in JPN really farking dog. no thanks to mamak kutty for this kind of sheet in sabah.



abc2005
post Oct 22 2021, 11:04 AM

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Keluarga Msia my foot. Totally heartless.

This happens while foreign footballers like the lazy De Paula could get citizenship EASILY like kacang putih.

Ptui.


tungfunglaw
post Oct 22 2021, 11:05 AM

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QUOTE(M4A1 @ Oct 22 2021, 11:02 AM)
he was born in 1995 sabah hospital
that time his father not yet die....his father only die when he was 10.

when he was first born, what was stated on his birth cert? should be his father name.
isnt that enough?
*
latest requirement is follow mother.

can follow father is got marriage cert. if tarak & mom is non-msian, GG..




changejob
post Oct 22 2021, 11:05 AM

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QUOTE(M4A1 @ Oct 22 2021, 10:43 AM)
born in malaysia
father malaysian

cannot ???????????
*
First day in Malaysia?

This is part of Malaysia that you supported all this time.
wailam
post Oct 22 2021, 11:05 AM

Apa benda ini?
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jalan belakang. that's the only way.
StorMx
post Oct 22 2021, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(khusyairi @ Oct 22 2021, 10:57 AM)
This man problem is that he cant prove his father is a Malaysian. His father is not married, no cert. Then he born in Sabah instead of Sarawak where his father is. His father also died, mean his father also cant help to proof it.

very2 hard...
*
If you have two sacks blocking your view, his father is a sarawakian / Malaysian
khusyairi
post Oct 22 2021, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(M4A1 @ Oct 22 2021, 11:02 AM)
he was born in 1995 sabah hospital
that time his father not yet die....his father only die when he was 10.

when he was first born, what was stated on his birth cert? should be his father name.
isnt that enough?
*
I dont think JPN will register illegitimate father in birth cert. It will be blank as usual bcoz no marriage cert.
Only mother name in birth cert.

If can register father as simple like that. Many will not throw out baby to dustbin.

This post has been edited by khusyairi: Oct 22 2021, 11:08 AM
iiapaii
post Oct 22 2021, 11:07 AM

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QUOTE(M4A1 @ Oct 22 2021, 10:43 AM)
born in malaysia
father malaysian

cannot ???????????
*
read the fact
parents don't have marriage certificate
so has to rely on mother, which is dead & has no valid record & cannot verified from which country
biological father also dead without doing dna test to confirm that he is the father, i guess
SUSM4A1
post Oct 22 2021, 11:10 AM

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QUOTE(changejob @ Oct 22 2021, 11:05 AM)
First day in Malaysia?

This is part of Malaysia that you supported all this time.
*
u also supported him last round
he was part of the malaysia ....that i supported laugh.gif
SUSM4A1
post Oct 22 2021, 11:11 AM

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QUOTE(iiapaii @ Oct 22 2021, 11:07 AM)
read the fact
parents don't have marriage certificate
so has to rely on mother, which is dead & has no valid record & cannot verified from which country
biological father also dead without doing dna test to confirm that he is the father, i guess
*
why cannot rely on father ..... hmm.gif
khusyairi
post Oct 22 2021, 11:12 AM

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QUOTE(M4A1 @ Oct 22 2021, 11:11 AM)
why cannot rely on father ..... hmm.gif
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Bcoz no record, he have malaysian father. Just hearsay.
iiapaii
post Oct 22 2021, 11:14 AM

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QUOTE(M4A1 @ Oct 22 2021, 11:11 AM)
why cannot rely on father ..... hmm.gif
*
if u got no legally married, need to do dna test to proof you r the dad
SUSM4A1
post Oct 22 2021, 11:16 AM

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QUOTE(khusyairi @ Oct 22 2021, 11:12 AM)
Bcoz no record, he have malaysian father. Just hearsay.
*
hmm.gif hmm.gif
bumpo
post Oct 22 2021, 11:19 AM

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just say it la.. poor dude wrong name
great use of govt resources thumbsup.gif
abc2005
post Oct 22 2021, 11:20 AM

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QUOTE(tungfunglaw @ Oct 22 2021, 11:03 AM)
JPN is knnccb... making life hard for stateless ppl.

those cb ppl working in JPN really farking dog. no thanks to mamak kutty for this kind of sheet in sabah.
*
May they rot in hell these bersatu azzhaulss..
ye0073
post Oct 22 2021, 11:22 AM

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Father and Mother not married at the time he is born.
So birth cert follow mother name who is a foreigner.
I bet his mother is not from these countries: UK, US, Japan, Australia, Europe, NZ, SG. That's why he want Malaysia citizenship.
HuorEarfalas
post Oct 22 2021, 11:23 AM

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QUOTE(M4A1 @ Oct 22 2021, 11:43 AM)
born in malaysia
father malaysian

cannot ???????????
*
Technically, no father. THat's the issue here. By common sense and jus soli principal, he would have been granted citizenship.
changejob
post Oct 22 2021, 11:24 AM

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QUOTE(M4A1 @ Oct 22 2021, 11:10 AM)
u also supported him last round
he was part of the malaysia ....that i supported  laugh.gif
*
Correct also.

But remember who has the longer ruling in Malaysia.

Don't act surprise when Malaysia has been like this for 50 years / 60 years +

This post has been edited by changejob: Oct 22 2021, 11:24 AM
Zot
post Oct 22 2021, 11:24 AM

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Hard to digest. Need Extra TLDR
oM41GoD_
post Oct 22 2021, 11:26 AM

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QUOTE(ye0073 @ Oct 22 2021, 11:22 AM)
Father and Mother not married at the time he is born.
So birth cert follow mother name who is a foreigner.
I bet his mother is not from these countries: UK, US, Japan, Australia, Europe, NZ, SG. That's why he want Malaysia citizenship.
*
Mother is bugis, ran away when he was baby.
Indonesia also don't have his mother's record. So he cannot apply to be indonesian too.




rootbeer
post Oct 22 2021, 11:35 AM

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QUOTE(iiapaii @ Oct 22 2021, 11:07 AM)
read the fact
parents don't have marriage certificate
so has to rely on mother, which is dead & has no valid record & cannot verified from which country
biological father also dead without doing dna test to confirm that he is the father, i guess
*
i think your reasoning is good.

since no married cert.. so children will need to follow mother, does DNA test can be a valid document to support the dead father is the father? is that a standard practice world wide..
i wonder..
pakmulau
post Oct 22 2021, 11:35 AM

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QUOTE(M4A1 @ Oct 22 2021, 10:52 AM)
is mom important here?
if dad is malaysian
born here

enough already la
why need mum pulak...
EVEN if mum is russian so ??? hmm.gif  laugh.gif
*
Sebab tu buku rekod klinik kesihatan masa mengandung penting. Mau juga tau sapa bapak sapa emak
70U63
post Oct 22 2021, 11:38 AM

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And someone in high power, opps, doesn't intervene....
And this issue has been dragged for decades.
No political will to solve this issue. Stateless = can't vote = useless for politikus....
leftycall9
post Oct 22 2021, 11:40 AM

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QUOTE(GreenSamurai @ Oct 22 2021, 10:47 AM)
Wrong race. Too bad for him. If he is master race all this won’t happen.
*
This.
SUSCincai lar
post Oct 22 2021, 11:51 AM

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QUOTE(khusyairi @ Oct 22 2021, 10:57 AM)
This man problem is that he cant prove his father is a Malaysian. His father is not married, no cert. Then he born in Sabah instead of Sarawak where his father is. His father also died, mean his father also cant help to proof it.

very2 hard...
*
then those buang baby case,.. become orphan dunno who's father and mother,.. all also stateless ???
tungfunglaw
post Oct 22 2021, 11:55 AM

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QUOTE(Cincai lar @ Oct 22 2021, 11:51 AM)
then those buang baby case,.. become orphan dunno who's father and mother,.. all also stateless ???
*
masterace...




ThirdSon
post Oct 22 2021, 11:56 AM

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makes your blood boils reading cases such as these, as if they don't regularly gives out citizenship to you know who

bastards
poks
post Oct 22 2021, 11:57 AM

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One of many cases... if this successfully, other will follow... good for pti
khusyairi
post Oct 22 2021, 12:10 PM

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QUOTE(Cincai lar @ Oct 22 2021, 11:51 AM)
then those buang baby case,.. become orphan dunno who's father and mother,.. all also stateless ???
*
Temporary birth cert, yes stateless. Father/ mother also will wrote "unknown" .
That one jabatan kebajikan manage it. If in borneo, there will be resident office. Until that baby get adoption.

user posted image

I cant remember well. But adopter can apply to JPN to change initial name & warganegara after few years. Many documentation need for it.

PS: I know bcoz I work in hospital b4. Many weird cases.. I need to deal wt many agencies.

This post has been edited by khusyairi: Oct 22 2021, 12:14 PM
SUSCincai lar
post Oct 22 2021, 12:15 PM

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QUOTE(khusyairi @ Oct 22 2021, 12:10 PM)
Temporary birth cert, yes stateless. Father/ mother also will wrote "unknown" .
That one jabatan kebajikan manage it. Until that baby get adoption.

user posted image

I cant remember well. But adopter can apply to JPN to change initial name & warganegara after few years. Many documentation need for it.

PS: I know bcoz I work in hospital b4. Many weird cases.. I need to deal wt many agencies.
*
dunno who's father mother,.. how they know indonesian ??,... even know the time of birth,..
DarkNite
post Oct 22 2021, 12:17 PM

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QUOTE(zetshield21 @ Oct 22 2021, 10:46 AM)
“In this case, the applicant said he is stateless, but when we look at the birth certificate records, it is clearly stated firstly that the mother is of Bugis descent, and there is a number which we are not sure if it is a passport or what record,”

Najib oso bugis decent can songlap money and get away from it
*
Helang vs Pipit!
#ApaMaluBossKu?
khusyairi
post Oct 22 2021, 12:17 PM

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QUOTE(Cincai lar @ Oct 22 2021, 12:15 PM)
dunno who's father mother,.. how they know indonesian ??,... even know the time of birth,..
*
They just make assumption based on police report.
If they see dark skin & look like it, they may write it indian. But if really unknown, they just put unknown.
Afterall it just for temporary documentation.
twosocks
post Oct 22 2021, 12:28 PM

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Meanwhile some runaway pr3acher can get pr easily
Rusty Nail
post Oct 22 2021, 12:29 PM

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QUOTE(GreenSamurai @ Oct 22 2021, 10:47 AM)
Wrong race. Too bad for him. If he is master race all this won’t happen.
*
^this
diffyhelman2
post Oct 22 2021, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(khusyairi @ Oct 22 2021, 11:12 AM)
Bcoz no record, he have malaysian father. Just hearsay.
*
father no relatives? Dna test can prove genetic relation using fathers siblings.

This post has been edited by diffyhelman2: Oct 22 2021, 12:35 PM
jojolicia
post Oct 22 2021, 12:43 PM

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Name spelling problem, a missing <B>
omong
post Oct 22 2021, 12:46 PM

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Even some Penans in interior Sarawak without proper birth certificate also being denied citizenship 🙄
SUSCincai lar
post Oct 22 2021, 12:52 PM

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QUOTE(omong @ Oct 22 2021, 12:46 PM)
Even some Penans in interior Sarawak without proper birth certificate also being denied citizenship 🙄
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kesian real bumi not citizen,...
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post Oct 22 2021, 12:56 PM

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QUOTE(GreenSamurai @ Oct 22 2021, 10:47 AM)
Wrong race. Too bad for him. If he is master race all this won’t happen.
*
Bangla & Indon oso can wat.
VinluV
post Oct 22 2021, 01:16 PM

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QUOTE(zetshield21 @ Oct 22 2021, 10:46 AM)
“In this case, the applicant said he is stateless, but when we look at the birth certificate records, it is clearly stated firstly that the mother is of Bugis descent, and there is a number which we are not sure if it is a passport or what record,”

Najib oso bugis decent can songlap money and get away from it
*

If najib name start with Wong. By now serving life sentence d
SinzChan
post Oct 22 2021, 01:19 PM

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depends on the outcome of this case southern meow meow, bijan and geng like komedi zahid all should be treated the same no?

or as usual this only applies to pipit no helang?
omong
post Oct 22 2021, 01:20 PM

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QUOTE(Cincai lar @ Oct 22 2021, 11:52 AM)
kesian real bumi not citizen,...
*
Ya lorr..
Ragad yang terang-terang orang Lebanese boleh pulak dapat status keturunan Melanau 🙄🙄
max_cavalera
post Oct 22 2021, 01:21 PM

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Sorry mahathir no more.

Project ic cancel.

Korang jugak yg maghoh nanti suka2 bagi easy citizenship to bangsa moro/semi bangsa moro

tatabun

This post has been edited by max_cavalera: Oct 22 2021, 02:16 PM
blek
post Oct 22 2021, 01:29 PM

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QUOTE(M4A1 @ Oct 22 2021, 10:43 AM)
born in malaysia
father malaysian

cannot ???????????
*
Wrong faith lar!!!
Maybe ic will be given with "condition" brows.gif
Ttbatdtptsm
post Oct 22 2021, 01:29 PM

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QUOTE(abc2005 @ Oct 22 2021, 11:04 AM)
Keluarga Msia my foot. Totally heartless.

This happens while foreign footballers like the lazy De Paula could get citizenship EASILY like kacang putih.

Ptui.
*
Keluarga Malaysia is political slogan

Rule of law is rule of law.
You dont believe in Power separation ? U want ismail sabri to influence judges? You need to speak to your MP to change the law not the courts
oM41GoD_
post Oct 22 2021, 01:38 PM

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From what I read

He already proved that his father is malaysian

But Malaysian government insisted that because his father and mother not legally married. His nationality should follow the mother.

The mother basically a ghost. No legal document. No where to be found. Unsure her nationality.

Malaysia government: it bukan masalah saya. Lu stateless Lu punya hal.

Hope the judges have some common senses.
muckingfental
post Oct 22 2021, 01:53 PM

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QUOTE(M4A1 @ Oct 22 2021, 10:43 AM)
born in malaysia
father malaysian

cannot ???????????
*
Wrong name wrong fruit..probably wrong religion too..
HolyValkyrie
post Oct 22 2021, 01:55 PM

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Without DNA test and marriage certificate, he can be said not related to the father by law and blood.
sidthesloth
post Oct 22 2021, 02:11 PM

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Because his name is Wong, your name Mohd you see can or not la
touristking
post Oct 22 2021, 02:16 PM

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QUOTE(sidthesloth @ Oct 22 2021, 07:11 AM)
Because his name is Wong, your name Mohd you see can or not la
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The famous Project M
andrewhtf
post Oct 22 2021, 02:22 PM

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QUOTE(khusyairi @ Oct 22 2021, 10:57 AM)
This man problem is that he cant prove his father is a Malaysian. His father is not married, no cert. Then he born in Sabah instead of Sarawak where his father is. His father also died, mean his father also cant help to proof it.

very2 hard...
*
i believe his birth cert already is proof who his father is
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post Oct 22 2021, 03:24 PM

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QUOTE(viole @ Oct 22 2021, 10:58 AM)
If not married means the guy is not the dad. How do you prove the guy is the dad?
*
dna test
inb4 darth vader ayam ur fader
viole
post Oct 22 2021, 03:35 PM

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QUOTE(emburrar @ Oct 22 2021, 03:24 PM)
dna test
inb4 darth vader ayam ur fader
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Dad is dead when he was 10.
estcin
post Oct 22 2021, 03:38 PM

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Siapa suruh nama Wong? Kalau nama Bumi sure approved
cytyler
post Oct 22 2021, 03:40 PM

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bangla > cainis

see how easy bangla get citizenship here
PATAR
post Oct 22 2021, 03:41 PM

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This country is so f*cking cruel to it's own people sometimes.



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post Oct 22 2021, 03:47 PM

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QUOTE(estcin @ Oct 22 2021, 03:38 PM)
Siapa suruh nama Wong? Kalau nama Bumi sure approved
*
Bumi also need to be the "right" bumi then only dapat. laugh.gif

viole
post Oct 22 2021, 03:55 PM

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QUOTE(andrewhtf @ Oct 22 2021, 02:22 PM)
i believe his birth cert already is proof who his father is
*
Normally if kid born out of wedlock, got dad name ke? I see malay kids they didn't put the dad name.
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post Oct 22 2021, 03:59 PM

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Settle already, his a citizen now. Looking at his face people also won't believe his chinese.
abc2005
post Oct 22 2021, 05:17 PM

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QUOTE(Ttbatdtptsm @ Oct 22 2021, 01:29 PM)
Keluarga Malaysia is political slogan

Rule of law is rule of law.
You dont believe in Power separation ? U want ismail sabri to influence judges? You need to speak to your MP to change the law not the courts
*
We are talking about Govt (ISabri govt) trying to appeal against the high court ruling on the confirmed citizenship.

Rule of law what? rclxub.gif
andrewhtf
post Oct 22 2021, 05:18 PM

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QUOTE(viole @ Oct 22 2021, 03:55 PM)
Normally if kid born out of wedlock, got dad name ke? I see malay kids they didn't put the dad name.
*
Bapaknye Abdullah. whoever that is
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post Oct 22 2021, 05:35 PM

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QUOTE(andrewhtf @ Oct 22 2021, 05:18 PM)
Bapaknye Abdullah. whoever that is
*
Ya so unknown dad unknown mom.. how to know.
Efalex
post Oct 22 2021, 05:42 PM

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Add bin in the name and instant approval....
projectnew
post Oct 22 2021, 05:46 PM

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whereas indon & bangla here get blue ic..
Princess_Alicia
post Oct 22 2021, 05:49 PM

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Ask him convert lar… automatically can get citizenship.
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post Oct 22 2021, 05:51 PM

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But the NRD director-general, home minister and Malaysian government had on October 31, 2019 filed an appeal

on October 31st 2019

Home Minister is lame duck Mahiaddin

Malaysia Government is Pakatan Harapan lead by Mahafiraun




chrisweeks
post Oct 22 2021, 05:54 PM

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QUOTE(GreenSamurai @ Oct 22 2021, 10:47 AM)
Wrong race. Too bad for him. If he is master race all this won’t happen.
*
Ahmad Zahid bin Hamidi was born on 4 January 1953 in Ponorogo, East Java, Indonesia

Both of his parents are Indonesian-born

He was raised by a Chinese foster-father, Chen Jin Ting and sold ice cream together for six years with his foster family when he was in elementary school. Chen was not highly educated and would cycle from his house at Simpang Tiga, Hilir Perak to about three kilometers away selling ice cream. Chen was married with his foster mother, Guo Jin Luan. His father later died in 1999, more than ten days after the general election of that year.[7] Following accusations that he was anti-Chinese, he stated "Am I anti-Chinese when I have a Chinese foster father?"
elairz
post Oct 22 2021, 05:58 PM

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we need a solution for stateless people.
dickybird
post Oct 22 2021, 06:12 PM

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If his name was a Bugis name, sure dapat
Isobel
post Oct 22 2021, 11:30 PM

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QUOTE(Noryume @ Oct 22 2021, 03:59 PM)
Settle already, his a citizen now. Looking at his face people also won't believe his chinese.
*
This? 2019 news. NRD DG, home ministry and gomen appeal to not gip him blue ic.
cursetheroad01
post Oct 22 2021, 11:46 PM

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Seriously, lawyers that worked for the government are scumbags who nost of time their only defense is to go for technicality no matter how obscure it was.

Im glad the judge is expectedly neutral regarding this and i hope the appeal court reject the appeal against this guy.
danielmckey
post Oct 22 2021, 11:47 PM

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Found guilty and awarded Sabah IC without project.
TryingToSurvive
post Oct 22 2021, 11:53 PM

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QUOTE(COOLPINK @ Oct 22 2021, 10:50 AM)
meanwhile others not born or even related to merehsian are granted........
*
The ones coming on boat the worst.
If you see those back alley rohinga posts, Wah really your blood boil
Talk like their grandfather fight the Japanese in the hutans of pahang
frossonice
post Oct 23 2021, 12:04 AM

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user posted image

This is the simple method to determine citizenship based on our constitution.

In this case, he fall under line 4 of the table above.

This post has been edited by frossonice: Oct 23 2021, 12:05 AM
darth5zaft
post Oct 23 2021, 02:30 AM

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QUOTE(cytyler @ Oct 22 2021, 03:40 PM)
bangla > cainis

see how easy bangla get citizenship here
*
If this dude get citizenship

He straight away get 1st class bhumi status you know because mom a Bugis.
andrewhtf
post Oct 23 2021, 02:41 AM

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I have seen with my own eyes : father mother indons, holding MyPR card.

Son got msia IC - warganegara.

Pundeks shouldn't the son remain Indonesian and only allowed myPR card instead of citizenship??
lordgamer3
post Oct 23 2021, 02:49 AM

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Just cut bird get citizenship like d pinoy n banggala.
darth5zaft
post Oct 23 2021, 03:44 AM

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QUOTE(andrewhtf @ Oct 23 2021, 02:41 AM)
I have seen with my own eyes : father mother indons, holding MyPR card.

Son got msia IC - warganegara.

Pundeks shouldn't the son remain Indonesian and only allowed myPR card instead of citizenship??
*
Constitution says can.


QUOTE(frossonice @ Oct 23 2021, 12:04 AM)
user posted image

This is the simple method to determine citizenship based on our constitution.

In this case, he fall under line 4 of the table above.
*
This post has been edited by darth5zaft: Oct 23 2021, 03:45 AM
madman7028
post Oct 23 2021, 05:04 AM

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Malaysia is voted in as United Nations Human Rights Council 2022 -2024 term.
UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS 1948:
Article 15 : Everyone has the right to a nationality.
No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

There are many cases which KDN do not have the will to solve them after so many years and even appealed against court cases that are not in favour of them. Many other countries are now working towards in reducing statelessness.
Below is a video link which explains why stateless happens and the difficulties they are facing and an uncertain future in Malaysia.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1262412350854012


Newsray
post Oct 23 2021, 05:08 AM

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all dont blame sini sana ler.

"The High Court had on October 21, 2019 recognised that the Malaysia-born Wong is a stateless person, declaring that he is a Malaysian citizen based on the Federal Constitution’s Second Schedule’s Part II’s Section 1(e) — a provision where those born within Malaysia and are not born a citizen of any other country are entitled under the law to Malaysian citizenship"

imagine the floodgate open if the authority was not strict.

yeezai
post Oct 23 2021, 06:31 AM

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QUOTE(COOLPINK @ Oct 22 2021, 10:50 AM)
meanwhile others not born or even related to merehsian are granted........
*
Project ic is normal in borneo ..alot pinoy but liligion card get ic
SUSpfizer
post Oct 23 2021, 06:40 AM

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QUOTE(khusyairi @ Oct 22 2021, 10:57 AM)
This man problem is that he cant prove his father is a Malaysian. His father is not married, no cert. Then he born in Sabah instead of Sarawak where his father is. His father also died, mean his father also cant help to proof it.

very2 hard...
*
Yes. Very hard.
7up
post Oct 23 2021, 07:20 AM

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NRD general and home minister paling tak guna punya olang
madman7028
post Oct 23 2021, 07:56 AM

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QUOTE(pfizer @ Oct 23 2021, 06:40 AM)
Yes. Very hard.
*
If he is able to locate his Malaysian father, it will be hard as there will be more hurdles such as illegitimacy act and others.

The high court has decided but Govt decided to appeal against it, same as the one below.

https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/202...affling/2008328

Not all cases are considered as a security threat where illegals trying to gain citizenship.

Those in the news, they apply through the proper channels article 15A(below 21 years old), most are genuine. eg: improper documentation due to ignorance, late marriage registration to a foreign wife where the oldest child is stateless but the others are malaysians, born out of wedlock where the mother is not a Malaysian but taken care by the Malaysian father, mothers married to foreigners who want their kids to be malaysians & kids/babies abandoned without documents that are being adopted by Malaysian families.

The blame game will always go to the parents or the adoptive parents, but never considered the humanitarian side of the child growing up stateless even though going to Malaysia schools and live the Malaysian way of life.

The home minister or KDN should not view, people like Wong and others who apply via 15A as security threat but more on humanitarian grounds and how they can contribute to Malaysia in the future. Then this type of court cases will not happen.

The below, case took him 19 years to become a citizen of Malaysia.

https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/202...malaysi/1899272
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post Oct 23 2021, 08:36 AM

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https://pictr.com/images/2021/10/23/BLn8s5.md.jpg

Found on previous star news 2019
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post Oct 23 2021, 08:36 AM

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user posted image
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post Oct 23 2021, 10:26 AM

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i don't get why some of you are so racist. insinuating if he is this or that, for sure he will be granted citizenship. yet, at the same time criticizing easy citizenship being given to others. sounds to me like you want the rules to be strict...but lax for him. why? because you believe him being Chinese (name) is being marginalised? or because you despise racism, well, unless it is in your favour?

have you seen him? he looks Chinese to you? you believe his father is Chinese? if your job is to approve or reject citizenship applications, would you approve merely based on sob stories, no proof needed. strict or lax...which one? approving his would also set a precedent...

btw, PR != citizenship. some of you all simply round everything under citizenship.
lemme guess, he also brings nothing to the table... as in no talent/potential/money/etc.
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post Oct 23 2021, 10:33 AM

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QUOTE(frossonice @ Oct 23 2021, 12:04 AM)
user posted image

This is the simple method to determine citizenship based on our constitution.

In this case, he fall under line 4 of the table above.
*
pr and foreign father has better right than citizen. basically, male citizen is been discriminated.

mrg220t
post Oct 23 2021, 10:40 AM

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QUOTE(icemanfx @ Oct 23 2021, 10:33 AM)
pr and foreign father has better right than citizen. basically, male citizen is been discriminated.
*
Tengok skin color la. If those same skin color one can get punya.
icemanfx
post Oct 23 2021, 10:41 AM

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QUOTE(mrg220t @ Oct 23 2021, 10:40 AM)
Tengok skin color la. If those same skin color one can get punya.
*
apartheid country.

andrewhtf
post Oct 23 2021, 11:36 AM

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QUOTE(darth5zaft @ Oct 23 2021, 03:44 AM)
Constitution says can.
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Dayummmmm
frossonice
post Oct 23 2021, 01:28 PM

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QUOTE(icemanfx @ Oct 23 2021, 10:33 AM)
pr and foreign father has better right than citizen. basically, male citizen is been discriminated.
*
We need DNA verification as part of our verification method to make into the law. Until then, the excuse given is that no baby can come out from a man so basically when registering a baby, there is always need to prove the mother's identity, not necessarily the father.

You can register a baby under single mother status (no husband/man) but you cannot register under single father status.

Thus the law effectively look at mother's status in regards of citizenship in cases of unmarried couple registering a baby.

In case some may ask, what about abandon baby? The baby will be register without parents info and registered under citizenship status - "belum ditentukan".
frossonice
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QUOTE(mrg220t @ Oct 23 2021, 10:40 AM)
Tengok skin color la. If those same skin color one can get punya.
*
Jangan buat cerita bodo. Abandon baby even 100% sure a malay pun, they will get birth certificate with citizenship status "belum ditentukan".

Many malay guy married to siamese woman in Thailand but not registered back their marriage here in Malaysia end up having their kids as non citizen.

Heck, even a baby born out of wedlock by a malay guy and an indonesian woman also the baby end up becoming non-citizen.

Ingat semua staf gomen ni racist sangat ke.

This post has been edited by frossonice: Oct 23 2021, 01:35 PM
haroldz123
post Oct 23 2021, 01:33 PM

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Kalo convert confirm warganegara
jueiri
post Oct 23 2021, 01:34 PM

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QUOTE(andrewhtf @ Oct 23 2021, 02:41 AM)
I have seen with my own eyes : father mother indons, holding MyPR card.

Son got msia IC - warganegara.

Pundeks shouldn't the son remain Indonesian and only allowed myPR card instead of citizenship??
*
Yiu will surprised the son gonbe sttaight away malay.

Speaks malay language
Follow malay culture
In the religion.

So he's constitutionally malay. First class citizens.
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post Oct 23 2021, 01:37 PM

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QUOTE(jueiri @ Oct 23 2021, 01:34 PM)
Yiu will surprised the son gonbe sttaight away malay.

Speaks malay language
Follow malay culture
In the religion.

So he's constitutionally malay. First class citizens.
*
No. Mother & father PR (say from Indonesia and at least one of them holding PR), baby is a citizen with ethnicity (keturunan) denote as INDONESIA.
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post Oct 23 2021, 01:43 PM

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But bangsa [redacted] just come from neighbour country and get ic a decade ago through cables
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post Oct 23 2021, 01:54 PM

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QUOTE(khusyairi @ Oct 22 2021, 11:06 AM)
I dont think JPN will register illegitimate father in birth cert. It will be blank as usual bcoz no marriage cert.
Only mother name in birth cert.

If can register father as simple like that. Many will not throw out baby to dustbin.
*
Honestly I’m born as an illegitimate child, my mum isn’t married but my dad is in my birth certificate
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post Oct 23 2021, 01:56 PM

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Rich people married into politician family one year confirm get citizenship.

This is another thing I will criticise about Malaysia gov, really biased and corrupt about immigration.
Oltromen Ripot
post Oct 23 2021, 02:02 PM

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QUOTE(Srbn @ Oct 22 2021, 10:41 AM)
Izhanudin said Wong had only made a search to one embassy which is the Indonesian embassy, but argued that there were other countries that have Bugis communities other than Indonesia.
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Zimbabwe? Japan?
HokkienMee_Lover
post Oct 23 2021, 04:33 PM

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meanwhile bosskukulanjiao era banglasia much
mrg220t
post Oct 24 2021, 01:02 AM

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QUOTE(frossonice @ Oct 23 2021, 01:37 PM)
No. Mother & father PR (say from Indonesia and at least one of them holding PR), baby is a citizen with ethnicity (keturunan) denote as INDONESIA.
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You betul betul pembaris. According to law is like that but in reality banyak got IC already. My maid and her husband both red IC anak is blue IC.
frossonice
post Oct 24 2021, 11:20 AM

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QUOTE(mrg220t @ Oct 24 2021, 01:02 AM)
You betul betul pembaris. According to law is like that but in reality banyak got IC already. My maid and her husband both red IC anak is blue IC.
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According to law, yes, their child is a Malaysian. Memang get blue IC.

But their ethnicity in MyKad will still and forever be noted as INDONESIA.

Yes, there are KETURUNAN = INDONESIA in our system. They cannot set it as MELAYU since they are not.

There are even a lot of true blue Malaysian with KETURUNAN = INDONESIA in their birth certificate.

Before calling somebody pembaris, know the difference between KETURUNAN/ETHNICITY and KEWARGANEGARAAN/CITIZENSHIP that I'm talking about.
frossonice
post Oct 24 2021, 11:28 AM

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QUOTE(khusyairi @ Oct 22 2021, 11:06 AM)
I dont think JPN will register illegitimate father in birth cert. It will be blank as usual bcoz no marriage cert.
Only mother name in birth cert.

If can register father as simple like that. Many will not throw out baby to dustbin.
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Children born from unwed parent can still put their father's info in the birth certificate with consent from both parent. They will need to fill in the SECTION G in the LM.01 form and need to have their thumbprints and signature infront of JPN staff.

user posted image

In the birth certificate, there will be a note at the bottom of the cert noting that the registration is under Sec 13/10...

For non-muslim, they still can use father's surname if they want or they can just put the child's name.

For muslim, parent can choose to put only the child's name, a combination of child's and father's name (eg, child name Ali, father name Ahmad; become ALI AHMAD) or they can choose among 99 of Allah's name as nasab.

Only mother can register as single parent. Father cannot.
khusyairi
post Oct 24 2021, 07:36 PM

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QUOTE(frossonice @ Oct 24 2021, 11:28 AM)
Children born from unwed parent can still put their father's info in the birth certificate with consent from both parent. They will need to fill in the SECTION G in the LM.01 form and need to have their thumbprints and signature infront of JPN staff.

user posted image

In the birth certificate, there will be a note at the bottom of the cert noting that the registration is under Sec 13/10...

For non-muslim, they still can use father's surname if they want or they can just put the child's name.

For muslim, parent can choose to put only the child's name, a combination of child's and father's name (eg, child name Ali, father name Ahmad; become ALI AHMAD) or they can choose among 99 of Allah's name as nasab.

Only mother can register as single parent. Father cannot.
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Laws in Borneo is different from Peninsular.
Even ordinance in Sabah & Sarawak is different.
Even U cant be native of Sarawak if only one parent Sarawakian.
That's already in Fed Constitution.
frossonice
post Oct 24 2021, 09:04 PM

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QUOTE(khusyairi @ Oct 24 2021, 07:36 PM)
Laws in Borneo is different from Peninsular.
Even ordinance in Sabah & Sarawak is different.
Even U cant be native of Sarawak if only one parent Sarawakian.
That's already in Fed Constitution.
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Nothing to do with being native or not. In JPN system, if for example, you're an Indian from peninsular, married to Iban from Sarawak, the system will let you choose the ethnicity of your child, either Indian or Iban. Same goes with other mix.

Being a native is determined by local Sarawak/Sabah law, not by JPN. JPN cannot decree anything of being any native or even bumiputra or not. That is not JPN's job to do so.

Ethnicity - JPN can let parent choose based on parent's ethnicity.
Native/Bumiputra status - JPN CANNOT determine that. Not in JPN job scope.

This post has been edited by frossonice: Oct 24 2021, 09:05 PM

 

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