well, sometimes one can get lucky even after normal FIRE.... like kena lottery or hobby work earns extra money...
more likely than not, its one of one's asset like a particular stock suddenly became a 100 bagger... who knows... can still be fat after normal FIRE.

just for discussion sake only... cos I notice we here loves to say FIRE but in reality, we also planned FIRE for our kids...

exactly like what you mentioned here....

pretend pretend someone FIRE at 45 with 10 million.... but remain conservative and only drawdown part of one's passive income... suddenly pass away at 60... I dare say the descendants will be able to retire early due to inheritance.

agree... taxes owed rightfully should be settled properly. not worth the headache unless we are billionaires who has lawyers at our disposal. like certain PMs.

unfortunately, or fortunately (as it means anyone can do it), the best way is to cut out unnecessary expenses.... luxury goods and services spending would be the first everyone should target.

If only I can go back in time and tell my younger self in his 20s not to eat at expensive restaurants, cut down on eating sweet stuff and cut down on branded coffee like starbucks... I think per month would have saved a few K already.

Imagine every 1K rm saved back then actually means can spend extra 3 rm per month now.

This post has been edited by Wedchar2912: Jul 1 2023, 08:21 PM

imagine your kid at the age of say 22 (working in Malaysia) and upon seeing his/her first paycheck, noticed that it is lower than his epf dividend. All thanks to his dad's generosity... What a nice situation to be in.

Malaysia's situation of only 4% of our population paying personal income tax is more the issue of low wage rather than tax evasion. When M40's median pay (per pax) is like 3.5K rm, natually not many even qualify to pay tax after tax relief and tax deduction. (The B40 group pays zero personal tax for sure).
So yes, consumption tax like GST should be the way to go....

but now that I am retired, I ought be selfish and say no... lets tax people based on active income!!!!! Set minumum tax bracket to be 10% and tax the workers regardless of pay...
ops... I think I just received my free STR/BRIM stipend from gov... Will donate to Hospice next week.
(I am just highlighting that there is something wrong with our system)

that means yourself and @dwRK both are no longer just fat/obese FIRE, but have achieved financial abundance as defined by the strait times...

yes, don't let them go through life the "normal" way... to build character... They will be grateful after enduring hardship of what their parents have prepared for them...

no lar... the keep low profile part, which I also practice, can also simply mean not to attract attention...
At the end, really no point... too many noisy and envious people around... some of them just love to stir shit...

its abit like driving... while I have the right of way, its ok to be less aggressive... I am in no hurry while the other chap maybe is in trouble.

The key question I have is... this pestering by LHDN cannot be fun for you right?

for company entity, I guess is ok cos can always push the work to entertain lhdn to the accounts department.
But for individuals who are employees, why be high profile for them to kacau?

yes, I just file zero. I guess you can choose not to, but a good idea to go ask LHDN in person.

previously many years ago I took my dad to LHDN to ask if he still needed to file (actually its also to get create a online account for him). the officer said no need for him because of his age. He mentioned he will put a notation in my dad's file and told us not to worry anymore.

I think if he had come back immediately after his graduation, he may not earn as much... due to the environment factor. Still a multimillionaire over, but lesser.
So it is a good thing he didn't come back.

It is like that for all industries in Malaysia and everyone, regardless of color, is being impacted, except 2 classes of jobs I think. And that is politics and high rank government servants.

Actually not really true... one of my ex-bosses earns around 100K rm per month (excluding bonus) and he cannot achieve FIRE. his expenses is way too high. Just this one expenses you already understands why. all his kids all went to international school and sent overseas for uni.

To achieve FI, the key parameter is not really high income (any income after a certain threshold is not a primary factor anymore) but Expense vs Income ratio. which is where the squirelling away 25 x annal expenses come about.

Of course got other ways to achieve FI... which is the "luck" way... born rich, strike lottery, unexpected inheritance (which is more common than not here in Asia).
The effort methods: geographical arbitrage (with tax benefits), marry rich, kiss the right *ss.

many of us under his division were saying the same... but all his choices. Plus company has another division in charge of spending mah... its called the accounting department. haha.

Tuition for uni in UK is close to 40K GBP per year. living allowance is say 2K gbp per month. so all add up is like 60K GBP => 360K myr.
Private schools in Malaysia is also not cheap... easily 50 to 60K rm per year.

If his kids educations were the only large expenses, may still be fine. but his lifestyle is not cheap. He has 2 drivers and 3 to 4 luxury conti cars, another example.

edit:
The good thing going for him is that all these education expenses will end sooner or later.
But time is running against him... he is almost 60, so maybe he has another 5 years top to continue earning his millions to build a decent egg-nest?
which goes back to a old example of how each person is born with around 80 sticky notes. How one wish to use one's sticky notes is one's choice. At 60, one only has 20 left.


This post has been edited by Wedchar2912: Jul 19 2023, 02:46 PM

living allowance, spending money, clothings, etc... at least 20 to 30K gbp per year... his kids are used to decent lifestyle too.

Maybe can find a private hospital (in Malaysia preferably where your sgd/aud gets bigger bang for buck), donate or pledge a decent amount and get the hospital to name a building under your name.

Rich people in the states love to do this...

edit: I forgot.. this is Malaysia. Public hospital most probably will not allow your name to be on a building.

This post has been edited by Wedchar2912: Jul 21 2023, 07:53 PM

Would you not be overbudgeting (although nothing wrong with being conservative)?
what I meant is you already assumed 3% return, and then pump up the expenditures that you wanted to spend from your highest ever spending of 6K to 15K....
(if just use 6K and 3% return, all that is needed is 2.4 million)

I would say what you are aiming for is not FIRE, but OBESE FIRE version....

I believe it could be due to various factors:
a) basic goods inflation
b) quality of life inflation
c) mistaken the real definition with what is essentially FAT/OBESE FIRE.
d) unreasonable assumptions

I myself guilty of doing (b) and ©. Although good thing as one can consider this to being too conservative and adding buffer to one's portfolio, but one should be aware of it. else it will be forever not enough.

A good example of c and d is when say after working for 20 years, one's salary is at say 20K rm gross. But somehow one's idea of FIRE requirement is passive income of 20K rm. How would this make sense? Cos after retirement, there is no need to pay tax (Malaysia at least) nor to save anymore for retirement.
The other example is not only keep the capital preserved, but to grow the capital as well.

The interesting part is I think the M40 actually can achieve FIRE as easily, if not more, vs the T20. As long as they don't have the urge to keep up with the Jones.
The numbers (we just have to believe them) don't lie. M40 individual median income is only 3.4K rm per month. 3.4K x 12 x 25 = 1 million.
Incidentally, if one start working at age 20 with salary of 2K pm, contribute to EPF and never take out, salary incement of just 1.5% pa, one's salary at age 60 will reach 3.6K rm pm. With avg div of 5.5%, EPF balance will reach 1 million at age 60.

My own criticism would be how easy is it to get a salary of 2K rm at age 20 back in 1983. Then again, 1.5% pa increment of salary only doesn't make sense too. There must also be other savings/investment outside of EPF too.
(a old ex-colleage of mine told me that she started her career at around 1980s, and her starting pay was 1.4K rm pm.)


Another key point.
For the M40 persons, their FIRE number should be closer to 3K rm per month.
While for the T20, their number would be much higher at say 8K rm per month.
A M40 person die die wants a FIRE number of 20K rm per month is a person who doesn't realize what FIRE is all about. Such person should continue to work harder to achieve a status upgrade, rather than look at retirement.

can one.... not easy, but really don't think it is anywhere near impossibility...

M40 median income is 3.8K per pax.... Their FIRE number is like 2.5 to 3K rm per pax... cannot aim for /k standard of 20K

If one is at B40 entire adult life till around 55 years old, then why would a passive income of B40 or bottom M40 not be achievable for FIRE and provide the same quality of life that the said person had lived his entire 55 years?

at age 55, statistically time is no longer in the person's favor.

well, just for discussion and awareness, what is meaningful?

if entire life till 55 been at B40, then B40 lifestyle is the meaning. To expect T20 lifestyle at retirement is just unrealistic.
there are 2 more factors that the healthy and young always forget that runs out: time and health.

many of us here are not at the B40 or M40 even, but we tend to project our requirements to everyone with regards to spending. I am sure the ones with 20 million networth will say they cannot retire if they only 10 million networth. haha.

But to fair, I also think a B40 statistically won't have accumulated 500K rm or 1 million. it is very hard.

a good check would be to see what's the PV of your planned expenditure budget vs your current expenditures.

Since you mentioned 15k rm at 60, using your fav inflation rate, whats the PV now?
I like to use 3% for inflation (its just a number), so that is 7.4K rm per month spending power today.

Are you spending above that or below? This is spending, ie exclude taxes, exclude epf contributions, exclude savings