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 I dont understand the 2nd law of thermodynamics

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hotdayum
post Jul 28 2021, 01:08 PM

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QUOTE(Grammar Police @ Jul 28 2021, 12:52 PM)
but the first law of thermodynamics say energy cannot be destroyed

so the energy star gives out wont be destroyed or disappeared, it will still be there in one form or another, lingering around
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Entropy is energy also. Just energy you kenot use.
TSGrammar Police
post Jul 28 2021, 01:11 PM

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QUOTE(hotdayum @ Jul 28 2021, 01:08 PM)
Entropy is energy also. Just energy you kenot use.
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sad!

need a new big bang to reset the entropy
feynman
post Jul 28 2021, 01:12 PM

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QUOTE(Grammar Police @ Jul 28 2021, 12:52 PM)
but the first law of thermodynamics say energy cannot be destroyed

so the energy star gives out wont be destroyed or disappeared, it will still be there in one form or another
*
a photon will still be a photon in space until it interacts with matter

What potential energy the star has would have been converted to all other forms of energy, making the star devoid of anything.....it would just be a hunk of matter approaching zero kelvins it will just be a boring place. If you look at stars that are towards the end of their lives...the fact that radio telescopes can still see them tells you that they are still dimly radiating EM waves, eventually that will also stop and it won't be detectable.
hey_nello
post Jul 28 2021, 01:12 PM

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Heat disperses, Energy disperses - example hot cocoa becomes cooler

To collect back the energy also must use energy(disperse more energy) - example to heat back the cocoa u must use electricity(electricity is produced by dispersing energy - burning fossil fuel or the sun)

So in total the universe is dispersing energy until it become meaningless dispersed energy in empty space. (Cold death)

If u reverse this timeline u get will get the big bang - the universe starts out with the lowest entropy (highly arranged and efficient form, NOT random and messy) thus proving the existence of GOD..
hotdayum
post Jul 28 2021, 01:14 PM

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QUOTE(Grammar Police @ Jul 28 2021, 01:11 PM)
sad!

need a new big bang to reset the entropy
*
Theoretically that requires everything repeat everything to go back into a single point.
feynman
post Jul 28 2021, 01:21 PM

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QUOTE(Grammar Police @ Jul 28 2021, 01:06 PM)
i understand nao. thank u and feynman
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key word is work........energy and work have the same physical units of course...that's your law.

Thermal physics became a discipline in the 1800s because of the industrial revolution. Engineers and physicists formulated ways to exploit energy through machines to do work and very rapidly, they understood that the "process" only/mostly moves one way in order for work to be done. of course, you can still reverse the process but that would entail doing useful work on the system to restore it in its original state......so really, doesn't make economic or physical sense to do so.
zack85
post Jul 28 2021, 01:24 PM

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QUOTE(accitzone @ Jul 28 2021, 01:02 PM)
where do you work? gonna mark your company out of any potential list
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u dont cb.. laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
zack85
post Jul 28 2021, 01:25 PM

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QUOTE(Nama saya Amad @ Jul 28 2021, 01:06 PM)
No wonder kilang terbakar, jambatan runtuh trolololik
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my company non-related to kilang terbakar and jambatan runtuh doh.gif doh.gif
tomatotomatomy
post Jul 28 2021, 01:26 PM

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Wow kopitiam so many physicists

We have so many talents in Malaysia

When talk about MH170, all the aeronautics engineers come out

When talk about COVID, all the epidemiologists and virologists come out

When talk about thermodynamics, all the nasa engineers come out
zack85
post Jul 28 2021, 01:28 PM

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QUOTE(tomatotomatomy @ Jul 28 2021, 01:26 PM)
Wow kopitiam so many physicists

We have so many talents in Malaysia

When talk about MH170, all the aeronautics engineers come out

When talk about COVID, all the epidemiologists and virologists come out

When talk about thermodynamics, all the nasa engineers come out
*
when talk about work implementation...all cabut lari laugh.gif
feekle
post Jul 28 2021, 01:30 PM

Bibo ergo sum!
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Dont go too deep..religion doesnt like it
zeese
post Jul 28 2021, 01:31 PM

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F that S. You'll never use it in your work anyway..
SUSCmyong88
post Jul 28 2021, 01:34 PM

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You cannot eat your poop to self sustain.
TSGrammar Police
post Jul 28 2021, 01:36 PM

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QUOTE(hotdayum @ Jul 28 2021, 01:14 PM)
Theoretically that requires everything repeat everything to go back into a single point.
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wait dont new stars get born every now and then? gotta google that up
eidrag
post Jul 28 2021, 01:37 PM

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it's like universe getting colder every time /k members open story
hotdayum
post Jul 28 2021, 01:38 PM

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QUOTE(Grammar Police @ Jul 28 2021, 01:36 PM)
wait dont new stars get born every now and then? gotta google that up
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That's not single point leh. Stars are born when enough mass come together that fusion begins.
thickface
post Jul 28 2021, 01:38 PM

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Best example is the aircond.

Think of it this way, if real world scenario, you would use aircond to cool down a room and reduce the entropy in the room. However, the energy to power up the aircond will generate more entropy outside the room compared to reduction of entropy in room. Sum up, you still create more entropy. Thus, final is higher than initial (which is bad).
TSGrammar Police
post Jul 28 2021, 01:39 PM

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QUOTE(hotdayum @ Jul 28 2021, 01:38 PM)
That's not single point leh. Stars are born when enough mass come together that fusion begins.
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Star Formation
Stars are born within the clouds of dust and scattered throughout most galaxies. A familiar example of such as a dust cloud is the Orion Nebula. Turbulence deep within these clouds gives rise to knots with sufficient mass that the gas and dust can begin to collapse under its own gravitational attraction. As the cloud collapses, the material at the center begins to heat up. Known as a protostar, it is this hot core at the heart of the collapsing cloud that will one day become a star. Three-dimensional computer models of star formation predict that the spinning clouds of collapsing gas and dust may break up into two or three blobs; this would explain why the majority the stars in the Milky Way are paired or in groups of multiple stars.

NASA

https://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus...form-and-evolve

so universe is not going to die a cold death because new stars get borned...
Gon Freaks
post Jul 28 2021, 01:40 PM

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QUOTE(Grammar Police @ Jul 28 2021, 12:52 PM)
but the first law of thermodynamics say energy cannot be destroyed

so the energy star gives out wont be destroyed or disappeared, it will still be there in one form or another, lingering around
*
the second law never said that energy is destroyed, but rather transferred and change it form to a more passive energy.
hotdayum
post Jul 28 2021, 01:44 PM

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QUOTE(Grammar Police @ Jul 28 2021, 01:39 PM)
Star Formation
Stars are born within the clouds of dust and scattered throughout most galaxies. A familiar example of such as a dust cloud is the Orion Nebula. Turbulence deep within these clouds gives rise to knots with sufficient mass that the gas and dust can begin to collapse under its own gravitational attraction. As the cloud collapses, the material at the center begins to heat up. Known as a protostar, it is this hot core at the heart of the collapsing cloud that will one day become a star. Three-dimensional computer models of star formation predict that the spinning clouds of collapsing gas and dust may break up into two or three blobs; this would explain why the majority the stars in the Milky Way are paired or in groups of multiple stars.

NASA

https://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus...form-and-evolve

so universe is not going to die a cold death because new stars get borned...
*
This is where the 2nd Law comes in. The fusion in stars partially converts to entropy, which just stays in the background. Other things absorb the resulting heat and radiation, their atoms vibrate, further converting some of that energy to entropy.

 

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