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 Web Developer - Front End, Back End or Full Stack?, Share your route as a web developer.

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TSkenottakdekopi P
post Jul 27 2021, 12:44 PM

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QUOTE(kidmad @ Jul 21 2021, 11:25 PM)
as a interviewer myself I'm starting to get fedup with those who claim to be full stack developer.

when asked about front end, angular and node js in particular they may be able to answer, switch to api be it Json or soap  then ah ah ah already.. prob further into backend pure java... giving me question mark face... further into database design.. oh i know nothing just rely on hibernate.

please never put in your resume or claim yourself as a full stack developer if you are not.. don't be ashamed if u r a backend guy just say your expertise is more towards this area.. if it's front end angular, node, or JavaScript just say so.. cause the moment u place in your full stack be prepared you may not be able to answer alot of questions if you are not doing them in depth.

@TS start coding. start your journey don't worry about full stack of not learn as you go.. be truthful to yourself. no experience in it say you do not have. don't claim you are full stack. just to master a backend java development it may take you at least 3-5 years. the complexity isn't only to make an application work.
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Thank you so much! It's a helpful information, relieves me from some stress. The youtubers are freaking me out



TSkenottakdekopi P
post Jul 27 2021, 12:52 PM

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QUOTE(silverhawk @ Jul 27 2021, 12:19 AM)
What area of engineering were you studying? Generally I feel the rigour and complexity of engineering courses will give you a leg up against most IT grads. If you did any form of computing engineer (e.g. knowing how computers work at the hardware level), you'll outpace most IT grads. So don't be disheartened with your engineering degree. Programming is mostly problem solving, how you think and come up with a solution is often more important than knowing how to write it in the way the machine understands, the latter can be figured out quickly.

Also, full stack is not just front-end and backend, its kinda a bit of everything from the stack. That also includes server setup, build integrations, etc.
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Electronics, but my major is closer to material science of electronics device. I did learn 0/1 binary, logic gates and circuit design, do you mean these? Learnt a bit of Machine Language for microcontrollers too.

I'm just going to focus front-end for now haha, see how it goes
silverhawk
post Jul 27 2021, 06:24 PM

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QUOTE(kenottakdekopi @ Jul 27 2021, 12:52 PM)
Electronics, but my major is closer to material science of electronics device. I did learn 0/1 binary, logic gates and circuit design, do you mean these? Learnt a bit of Machine Language for microcontrollers too.

I'm just going to focus front-end for now haha, see how it goes
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Yeap, that knowledge will be more useful in backend work, frontend too but probably not as much. You'd be surprised how many people don't know how computers work at the low level, how memory is used, accessed, interrupts, cpu polling, etc. When you don't know these things and problems occur, you don't have an intuition of what could be wrong.

Grammar Police
post Jul 30 2021, 03:55 PM

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QUOTE(silverhawk @ Jul 27 2021, 06:24 PM)
Yeap, that knowledge will be more useful in backend work, frontend too but probably not as much. You'd be surprised how many people don't know how computers work at the low level, how memory is used, accessed, interrupts, cpu polling, etc. When you don't know these things and problems occur, you don't have an intuition of what could be wrong.
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i asked my colleagues if they understand stuff like big O notation, architecture instruction set, hexademical, ASCII, they reply me "whats that " . I was not asking them to test them but rather hoping i can get a clearer explanation for myself.

Not that web dev will never need to use any of these stuff in their job. But web dev dont actually need to have in depth knowledge of how computer works.

This post has been edited by Grammar Police: Jul 30 2021, 03:55 PM
FlierMate
post Jul 30 2021, 07:58 PM

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And on top of that, we can always google for answer.
But bear in mind, even Google is our best friend and mighty, we need to know what to search for. So knowing everything a bit is good (generalist), because you can always broaden your horizon later by googling for that specific quest for knowledge (specialist).

silverhawk
post Aug 3 2021, 12:41 AM

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QUOTE(Grammar Police @ Jul 30 2021, 03:55 PM)
i asked my colleagues if they understand stuff like big O notation, architecture instruction set, hexademical, ASCII,  they reply me "whats that " . I was not asking them to test them but rather hoping i can get a clearer explanation for myself.

Not that web dev will never need to use any of these stuff in their job. But web dev dont actually need to have in depth knowledge of how computer works.
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If you're a web dev without that intuition, you will write bad code. You don't need it, but you'll never go far without some basic understanding. I recently just rewrote some sql queries that was taking 5 minutes to execute, down to 13 seconds, all because I understand at a basic level how the db engine will need to allocate memory to process the data.

Its also not uncommon to see large objects/variables being passed around in crappy web dev code, unnecessarily consuming memory when you could easily pass a file pointer reference instead. Not understanding I/O and race conditions, etc. etc.

End up, someone else will have to clean up their mess.
malleus
post Aug 3 2021, 09:05 AM

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QUOTE(silverhawk @ Aug 3 2021, 12:41 AM)
If you're a web dev without that intuition, you will write bad code. You don't need it, but you'll never go far without some basic understanding. I recently just rewrote some sql queries that was taking 5 minutes to execute, down to 13 seconds, all because I understand at a basic level how the db engine will need to allocate memory to process the data.

Its also not uncommon to see large objects/variables being passed around in crappy web dev code, unnecessarily consuming memory when you could easily pass a file pointer reference instead. Not understanding I/O and race conditions, etc. etc.

End up, someone else will have to clean up their mess.
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many years ago, I was collaborating with a design studio on some kind of magazine app on an iPad. the idea that we were experimenting on is for rich dynamic content to be rendered using HTML and JS, with native bindings where needed.

it didn't really take off, as what we learnt from that experiment was that although the ppl doing up the content won't need to be familiar with mobile development, they do need to be aware of how to optimise JS, instead of just importing existing large JS frameworks and embedding it into a iPad generation 1 device and still expect good performance on loading time and no lags.
SUSifourtos
post Aug 3 2021, 09:08 AM

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ask yourself, where is your passion??
malleus
post Aug 3 2021, 12:24 PM

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QUOTE(ifourtos @ Aug 3 2021, 09:08 AM)
ask yourself, where is your passion??
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passion is overrated. mainly because it burns bright, and burning bright also means burning out quick. and passion unchecked can lead down the wrong path too.

I was at a forum with a bunch of entrepreneurs once, when all of the panelists spoke about passion, etc. except for the very last person, Pua Khein-Seng, one of the ppl attributed to the USB flash drive. He said a totally different thing. He asked a very important question, which is, can you expect your passion to be burning bright all the time, though the many years, through the many ups and downs? Rather, it's the sense of responsibility to his company and employees being the main thing that kept him going all these years.
silverhawk
post Aug 3 2021, 11:20 PM

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QUOTE(malleus @ Aug 3 2021, 12:24 PM)
passion is overrated. mainly because it burns bright, and burning bright also means burning out quick. and passion unchecked can lead down the wrong path too.

I was at a forum with a bunch of entrepreneurs once, when all of the panelists spoke about passion, etc. except for the very last person, Pua Khein-Seng, one of the ppl attributed to the USB flash drive. He said a totally different thing. He asked a very important question, which is, can you expect your passion to be burning bright all the time, though the many years, through the many ups and downs? Rather, it's the sense of responsibility to his company and employees being the main thing that kept him going all these years.
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+1

Passion and motivation are fleeting. Purpose and commitment are stronger anchors. So many people have gotten lost and broken chasing passion and finding motivation.
yk8
post Aug 8 2021, 03:12 AM

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for me , i think either one , want to be fullstack is so difficult , and every year browser have update new function , and css function become more and more complicated every year eg mix-blend-mode recently can mix so many complicated layer , javascript update new function es5 until now es11 have change so much , for me i will rather pick 1 side , ether front end or back end , the function increase and change everyyear like dictionary , you cannot stop study , and always google . this kind if web developement thing is like team work , you cant finish one complicated project by ur own , better focus only on one side

browser update too fast everyyear , front end just css + svg can take forever to learn already , this is eg some sifu making with css only , all is render by ur moden browser https://codepen.io/SoyEva/pen/LRjWzZ

This post has been edited by yk8: Aug 8 2021, 03:22 AM
Imaizumi
post Aug 9 2021, 05:52 AM

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Machine empathy yo.
tongue.gif

I guess depends. Passion alone doesn't help. Accompanied with good working ethics would be sustainable. You work without balance inhumanely unbalance you'll burn out no matterr how passionate you are. It's a human thing.

This post has been edited by Imaizumi: Aug 9 2021, 05:56 AM
Without_a_clue
post Aug 22 2021, 03:52 PM

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QUOTE(yk8 @ Aug 8 2021, 03:12 AM)
for me , i think either one , want to be fullstack is so difficult , and every year browser have update new function , and css function become more and more complicated every year eg mix-blend-mode recently can mix so many complicated layer , javascript update new function es5 until now es11 have change so much , for me i will rather pick 1 side , ether front end or back end , the function increase and change everyyear like dictionary  , you cannot stop study , and always google . this kind if web developement thing is like team work , you cant finish one complicated project by ur own , better focus only on one side

browser update too fast everyyear , front end just css + svg can take forever to learn already , this is eg some sifu making with css only , all is render by ur moden browser https://codepen.io/SoyEva/pen/LRjWzZ
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I believe training and staying up to date to be part of your working hours when not working freelance, at least in the west, it's widely accepted, i wonder how it goes in Malaysia ?

This post has been edited by Without_a_clue: Aug 22 2021, 03:52 PM
malleus
post Aug 22 2021, 10:44 PM

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QUOTE(Without_a_clue @ Aug 22 2021, 03:52 PM)
I believe training and staying up to date to be part of your working hours when not working freelance, at least in the west, it's widely accepted, i wonder how it goes in Malaysia ?
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it's more to do with the nature of the job itself, rather than geographical location.

if you're maintaining a legacy in house CRM system, then you're pretty much stuck. such jobs exists both east or west. even north or south too.
Without_a_clue
post Aug 25 2021, 02:55 PM

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QUOTE(malleus @ Aug 22 2021, 10:44 PM)
it's more to do with the nature of the job itself, rather than geographical location.

if you're maintaining a legacy in house CRM system, then you're pretty much stuck. such jobs exists both east or west. even north or south too.
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I believe there's great disparities between geographical locations, if only in term of respect for other people's welfare and dignity, Malaysia is definitely inferior in this regard given the pervasive memanjing/dengki ke/arrogant culture that spans from primary school to the kings, ministers, and the like.
But can't you end up finishing your day's work at 3 pm if you play your cards well ? Or at least negotiate a good raise, since your expertise has high value for the company ?

malleus
post Aug 25 2021, 05:08 PM

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QUOTE(Without_a_clue @ Aug 25 2021, 02:55 PM)
I believe there's great disparities between geographical locations, if only in term of respect for other people's welfare and dignity, Malaysia is definitely inferior in this regard given the pervasive memanjing/dengki ke/arrogant culture that spans from primary school to the kings, ministers, and the like.
But can't you end up finishing your day's work at 3 pm if you play your cards well ? Or at least negotiate a good raise, since your expertise has high value for the company ?
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disparities between geographical locations? maybe, but not as big as you think it is. after all, you only hear a lot about the MNCs and the working conditions there right? do you hear much about the working conditions in SMEs or smaller companies in other countries?

have you heard about the horror stories about those western game studios that's been out in the news lately? even Blizzard is having a more serious issue now than the previous one they're facing, with accusations of their HR destroying evidence of complaints made to them about abuse.
SUSKevinSkinner P
post Apr 21 2022, 10:34 PM

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Sometimes I feel that I most of my skills are unnecessary today, because things like Figma and WordPress exist
SUSDennisMay
post Apr 22 2022, 02:14 AM

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I recently bought myself a new computer and decided to learn web design. The craft is certainly not easy, but it pays off and is interesting. After 3 months of practice, I decided to try myself in business and I started freelancing. At first there were no clients at all, but I was not discouraged and continued to work. Over time, I got my first clients and money. Now, I work in a website development company and am engaged in Web Development.
silverhawk
post Apr 22 2022, 03:05 PM

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QUOTE(KevinSkinner @ Apr 21 2022, 10:34 PM)
Sometimes I feel that I most of my skills are unnecessary today, because things like Figma and WordPress exist
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That just means your skills need to be sharpened so it cuts deeper
15cm
post Apr 22 2022, 09:40 PM

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usually the project that hires full stack are pretty small projects

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