People needs hope

I got my first degree from Singapore and worked there for four years.

Companies set up their centre in Singapore for reasons. Firstly, as a small state, their infrastructure, particularly telecommunication, is easier to build and maintain. However, just look at the share price for SingTel. What is the IPO price back in 1993 and what is the current price?

Secondly, it offers tax incentives to encourage. But, ask yourself, why those bankers that left Hong Kong could not get their employment passes? Read the following news

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/202...pe-to-singapore

So, Singapore government realize that it needs to offer opportunities to locals - just like the Malaysian government. You look at Singapore from a Malaysian point of views. You don't feel the paint of local Singaporean who have to compete with Malaysian, Mainland Chinese, Indian, Filipino for job security.

And why would they set-up their HQ in Singapore? Yes you're absolutely right on infrastructure. But you did not mention the 2 other factors. Ease of getting talent and stable, largely corruption free government policies.

Share price is not a reflection of the performance of a company FYI.

Why do you think many bankers in HK wants to go to Singapore instead of Malaysia? That pretty much answers your question, no? I think a stricter visa requirement is necessary to ensure only the very best comes into Singapore. In fact your statement directly contradict to what most Singaporeans are saying that Singapore imports too many foreigners. In fact there is a study from NTU saying 43% of people in Singapore are foreigners and I think the SG gov is trying to quell that.

But you have to understand only through competition one becomes better. Malaysian have it too easy that's why they are uncompetitive. That's also partially why MNC shun Malaysia in favour of Singapore, which then result in lower value of MYR.

Now don't get me wrong, Singapore has its flaws but in terms of governance, and policies as well as attracting talents, they are leap and bounds better than malaysia and even you know this. That is why 1SGD = RM3.21 today

This post has been edited by Rolexseller123: Jul 24 2022, 11:09 PM

Foreign companies set up HQ at Singapore for a number of reasons. That we don't have to debate.

Please, share price is not a reflection of the performance of a company? Are you sure? If your company is doing extremely well and your share price is lousy, a hostile takeover is inevitable. That is the reason listed companies have been privatized. One of the key factors for companies to set up their regional hub in Singapore is the telecommunication. But, why the share price for SingTel is much lower than the IPO in 1993? There is no hostile takeover for SingTel because many Singaporeans are holding their discounted SingTel shares through their CPF account.

The news I shared - not sure if you understood. Even Singapore gov is starting to reject talents to give more opportunities to locals. That is what Malaysia gov (regardless whoever in power) has been consistently doing, only open the 3D jobs to the foreigners. If Malaysia allows foreign universities graduates to work here freely, I am sure the fresh graduate monthly salary wil be lower than 2300 a month.

1 SGD = 3.2 MYR does not mean anything. 1000 JPY = 32.59 MYR. 1000 Korean Won = 3.40 MYR, does it mean Malaysia is better off than Japan or South Korea?

True, through competition one becomes better. I personally welcome competition. In fact, when I start up a business, my competitors are companies from India, which could easily get the MSC status and enjoy tax free incentive. But, governing a country and the monetary policies are more complex than you think.

Yes, share price is not a reflection of a company's performance. For example Tesla with its high share price and market cap is nowhere near the financial performance of Toyota. Go look at the revenue profits of both companies and you will see. Share price is what investor are willing to pay that's about it.

And i am not sure why you keep harping on telecom industry or the share price of Singtel. Again its not a reflection of the performance of the company merely what investors are willing to pay for it similar to the Tesla vs Toyota example above

Did the Singapore government say they are REJECTING TALENTS? where and in which article they are saying they are rejecting talents? Please show? Last i checked they are still welcoming talent albeit the right talent and never did they say they are rejecting talents.

Value of ringgit determines your import price as both malaysia and singapore import most of their consumables from rice to even petrol. And since imports are mostly in USD, a low value of ringgit means more expensive imports.

Are you sure you are doing business? Coz this seems basic but you don't seem to know. Besides i don't get what you are trying to argue here anymore? There are 1million malaysia working in Singapore currently and many more PRs. If Malaysia were better than singapore do you think 1million malaysian would leave their home to work in Singapore? I mean I don't see 1 million malaysian living and working in Australia, Indonesia or Thailand or UK.

This post has been edited by Rolexseller123: Jul 25 2022, 07:51 AM

Obviously, you are not trained in business fields and hence you categorized SingTel and Tesla in the same nature. Share price is a reflection of the company's value.

As far as I look into it, based on BCG matrix, SingTel is the Cash Cow. Already invested heavily in the infrastructure, which had entry barriers that not many corporates were able to get in. Tesla is the Star, and this represents a lot of growth in a company.

You are talking about MNC set up HQ at Singapore, so we have to talk about SingTel, the biggest telco operator in the island that provided Singapore with the competitive advantages. Remember your statement “Share price is what investor are willing to pay that's about it” – if Singapore is the place where all major MNC set up their HQ, the telco services provided by SingTel should lead to more tremendous profits and provide values that investors can’t turn away.

SingTel was listed back in 1993, Singapore gov sold S$2.00 a share to its citizen. For those who bought at open category, we paid S$4.10. But, the current share price for SingTel is S$2.65. You can’t answer that, right?

On the other hand, Tesla is a Star. Just like NIO and XPEV – their share prices all are “hope”. Investors are hoping the transformation of the automobile industry will lead to the quantum leap. Therefore, as what you said, “share price is what investor are willing to pay that's about it”. So, in short, I was willing to pay US$6 and US$18 respectively for NIO and XPEV back in 2018 even their financial performances are worse than SingTel – that is the “hope”.


Action is louder than talk – please read the Bloomberg article I shared at

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/202...pe-to-singapore

Expat bankers did not get their Employment Pass and read again the key sentences “emerging markets investor Mobius has left Singapore for Dubai”. Perhaps you should ask why those experienced bankers’ EP application were rejected.


Firstly, read more and understand more about the trade, economy and finance, Malaysia has enjoyed trade surplus

https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/mala...aging-near-term

Secondly, the civil services in Malaysia are not as stupid as you want them to be. China has been Malaysia’s biggest trade partner for 13 years and Malaysia is one of the countries that provides trade settlement in RMB.


The fact that Malaysians leaving for better life elsewhere has been a norm since 1970’s. In fact, back in 1980’s and 1990’s, there were plenty of Malaysians went to Japan, Taiwan, Australia, UK to work illegally. As a result, there were strict visa requirements to enter Japan. If you wish to join those 1 million in Singapore, no one will stop you.

Nevertheless, coming back to the point about the basic monthly salary of MYR 2300. There are 1.4m to 2m documented migrant workers in Malaysia. There are another unofficial estimates of 1.2m to 3.5m additional migrants.

https://www.iom.int/countries/malaysia#:~:t...0in%20Southeast

The cost of hiring migrant workers – not cheap as you think. I know it because I am hiring 4 of them to build my house now. A skilled Indonesia construction worker commands a daily rate from MYR 150 – MYR 220 per day depending on their experiences. That is more expensive than hiring a new fresh graduate. In 2018, migrant workers remitted MYR 29. 2 billion back to their home country.

https://www.dosm.gov.my/v1/uploads/files/7_...Remittances.pdf

From my end, I don’t wish to spend too much to argue – because your mindset has been set. I just want to conclude the following:

(1) If the fresh graduate could contribute more than RM 3500 profit every month, the employers are stupid to pay them merely RM 2300 per month.
(2) Don’t expect employer to run a welfare business by providing wages for the employees to enjoy the new lifestyle. Cost of living is high – true, that also impact business operations.
(3) Look for other vocational fields/skillset – not just office work with air-cond and internet access. A foreign construction worker can earn up to RM 4000 per month. Take tiling in construction industry as an example, the labour charges: (a) Indonesian worker - RM 3.50 per sqft. (b) Bangladeshi worker - RM 2.80 per sqft © Local Chinese - RM 7.00 per sqft.

This post has been edited by ongss: Jul 25 2022, 12:26 PM

Firstly Singtel is a singaporean company. It originated from singapore so your point about MNC like sintel setting up HQ in singapore is moot. It is a singaporean based company first and foremost.

Secondly please read up on how share price is not a reflection of company performance. I don't want to write war and peace here.

Thridly you look at market cap not share price. I do not want to discuss these as it is besides the point and you don't seem to know even the basics.

I dispute point (1). The others i begradingly agree. But again i fail to see your argument. This entire post of mine is to rebut your notion that malaysia is a better economically compared to Singapore.

I am in the business to help MNC to set up shared service centres at Bangsar South and Cyberjaya. Every now and then, the functions or teams or towers in these shared service centres come and go whenever the management find low cost locations.

To bring jobs to any low cost locations (e.g. India, Philippines, Malaysia, Czech Republic, Poland), besides the local talent pools, other important factors to consider are stable power supply, stable network and internet.

If there are many MNC HQ choose to go to Singapore, as you claim, the demand for network services will grow and reflect in the values for SingTel share price. Why don’t you compare Telekom’s share price trend vs SingTel? You only bring in Tesla to argue. I guess you don’t even understand the basic principle BCG Matrix that is taught in any business course. SingTel and Tesla are completely two categories – just like Malaysia and Singapore.

Share price is a reflection of the value of the company. If you don’t understand, that is your problem, it is not my obligation to teach you how to invest for future.

You ask yourself, do you really know the reason 1m Malaysian working in Singapore and not in Australia, UK, Indonesia or Thailand?

You think all that 1m Malaysia workforce in Singapore are top bankers, top IT experts? Are you telling me that the hundred over thousand motorcycle riders that cross the borders are the best talents in this country?

Basically, I believe more than 80% of that 1m are population that are hoping to earn 3.2 exchange rate. Malaysia Chinese like to use the derogatory word “foreign labour” to describe the millions of migrant workers from Indonesia, Bangladesh and Myanmar. Ask those Singaporean and hundred thousand of riders that cross the causeway, what are the word people refer them as?

Wages, work, productivity, fiscal policies – all should not be politicized. By hoping one person that can’t even manage his own party to be next Prime Minister, that is a dream. I know, many keyboard hero like to label me as BN supporter, I am a crony that benefit from gov contracts. So amazing like power went off and postal votes surfaced. I don't bother all the labels. I am a Malaysia supporter.

I don't wish to spend too much time to argue with you. No point because your brain has been filled with things yourself know best.

Just to conclude, RM 2300 monthly salary is the market equilibrium. If one can contribute more than RM 3500 profit per month to the company and his/her employer only pays her RM 2300, then his/her employer is an idiot. My advice is to leave and look for a better employer. If he/she cannot find another employer who is willing to pay more than RM 2300, then nothing the government can do - even another government. Raise the minimum pay to RM 3500 will not help if the productivity and profit contributions are not there.

That's because Malaysia focus on low cost low skilled labour like you yourself said so. Like shared service centers. That's my point all along. Until malaysia move up the value chain, most of the MNC who come to Malaysia to set up shop will be looking for just that. Low cost. Conversely, companies don't go to Singapore, HK or USA looking for low cost. They look for value. Like R&D, private banking, fintech, etc. These are the high paying high value jobs. Not saying there are absolutely no R&D company that set up shop in Malaysia but lesser than SG. These are the value added jobs along with banking and finance that Malaysia should aspire to be.

All the other arguments are besides the point abd no i disagree that share price is a reflection of the company performance. Arguing that is moot. You can't say a company like AEM holdings with a shate price of $4.23 is bigger and better than Wilmar at $3.99, no? Your argument makes no sense.

Parking for more debates

Huat ah!

I think you misunderstood him wrongly. Where he is coming from, share price alone is not the only yardstick in which a company is valued at. It is one of the factors but not in the absolute sense. In your comparison above, I am very sure ongss knows the difference to differentiate the market cap because each company has different number of shares out there and there.

In regards to moving up the value chain, its a chicken and egg situation. On one hand the powers that be want the education level to be at a lower level in order to stay in power vs getting smart folks in order to move up the value chain.

But I do agree with ongss about if a fresh grad can bring in the value > than their salary, then RM2300 seems to be the free open market benchmark. If we talk about setting it higher and capping it, seems to contradict the whole free market debate instead.

i don't understand but if employer can offer 2.3k as start then upon confirmation or 1 year and raise it to standard maybe like 3 to 4k then why not? i had the same increment as my boss told me my performance is ok and they wish to retain me. if the co continue with meagre 2-5% increment for that salary, then work 1 yr get experience and find another co... if co can't value you, u better value urself better. its shitty if a manager tell you not to leave for like rm200 increment (i was being told that last time). i just throw letter, if u think i worth more than extra rm200 then why not just offer extra rm200.. rm200 to me is a lot back over 10 yrs ago

Ya, my argument made no sense, the whole world only you can make sense. Or, those Oxbridge elites at the opposition camps that "bring" you hope know how to govern this country.

Go and study BCG matrix, stock market, before you bring in any other companies like AEM, Wilmar, to refute me.

My Linkedin annual membership, my Netflix monthly subscription, even my Indeed job advertisement bills - all are issued by their respective subsidiaries in Singapore. So, this is high tech? This is R&D? The two giant casinos in Singapore are also value-adding industries? Or, give a lot of job opportunities to 1m Malaysians in order to earn 3.2x exchange rate?

I am not saying Malaysia is the best or better than Singapore. These two countries are in different categories. My argument is simple, Malaysia has been improving in many aspects. Monthly salary of RM 2300 is an equilibrium. If you don't believe, you should start a business, offer all your employees RM 3500 per month as the minimum wage. If you can't start a business to offer such welfare, then whatever moving up value chain is merely empty talk, which is the strength of all politicians in Malaysia.

This post has been edited by ongss: Jul 26 2022, 05:21 PM

Dude, the Boston Consulting Group (BCG) growth-share matrix is a planning tool that uses graphical representations of a company's products and services in an effort to help the company decide what it should keep, sell, or invest more in. It has absolutely nothing to do with share price of a company. And again share price has no bearing to the financial performance of the company. What matters is revenue and profitability. That's it. That's why i quote you toyota vs tesla. Toyota revenue for FY21 is $US229bn on a profit of US$21bn. Tesla on the other hand only has US$32bn revenue on a profit of US$5.1bn despite having higher market cap and share price compated to toyota. Are you going to tell me tesla is a financially better company? Cammon. Your BCG matrix is not helping your case. In fact it is just saying what i have been saying all along that share price is what buyers are willing to pay and buyer are willing to pay more for growth companies like tesla as compared to cash cow like toyota. It has no bearing to financial performance of a company. Read up more please. I really should not be wasting so much time explaining this to you. Its really basic

Programmers in places like google and alibaba are paid $250k annual package. How many malaysians are drawing that kind of salary?

Like i said, the other points i agree with you somewhat. Its your value that determines your worth and how you convey your value to your employers. Not make general sweeping statements like fresh grad who can earn more than RM2300 deserve more pay because they can contribute more. If they can contribuye more then convince the employees they are worth more. Its simple.

This post has been edited by Rolexseller123: Jul 26 2022, 10:19 PM

I don't think so. He genuinely does not know and goes nuts harping about BCG matrix. Lol. Simply put share price is what another person is willing to pay you for your shares in a company. And the share price and market cap has no bearing on the performance of the company. Like the tesla vs toyota e.g. i have given. I'll take toyota anytime over to tesla from a purely financial perfprmance standpoint despite tesla share price and market cap being more than toyota. He does not seem to get it.

No arguments about the state of local education. But those that are remotely good are also migrating worsening the brain drain

If a fresh grad think he/she deserve more money because he/she can bring more value then he/she has to convince their employers they are worth being paid more. I am never one for min wage or capping wage. That is stupid and distorts the market forces.

This post has been edited by Rolexseller123: Jul 26 2022, 10:06 PM

share price and market cap are not good indicators of a company performance. best is to look at its annual revenue growth, net profit, and margin.

Exactly. That's what i am trying to tell the other guy all along. Why does it matter if a company share price is high or low whether it is a growth or cash cow type company per his BCG matrix. Its makes no difference. End of the day the only thing that matters is revenue, profitability. That's it

Totally agree on this one.

I always LOL at people who complained about their bonuses being so little but always simply take MC and doesn't perform well.

Ya, new generation think private enterprise should subsidise them to "survive". TS wrote an interesting remark

“Some banks and big companies CEOs are earning RM150,000 to RM700,000 a month when your parents need to subsidise you to survive.”

I think he/she got the wrong information. Most of the CEO in big corporates are paid in millions.

https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/cove...-take-home-2020

Look at the packages paid to PBB, HLB, MBB, RHB, and etc. I don’t intend to spread hatred against rich. These compensations are open and declared. Have the shareholders of these public listed companies protested? I have invested in PBB and CIMB and I am happily receiving my dividends without the need to protest.

not enough to cover student loan debt either 😀