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> Problematic Tenant, Tenant missing leaving behind hefty Bill

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TSElonor89 P
post May 28 2021, 04:04 AM, updated 3y ago

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Hi all,

This is the situation..

I rented out my nicely renovated apartment to a family in JB through an agent.
From the beginning, there was 1 month delay in the rental payment. The tenant is very arrogant when you push for the rental payments. She claims that the rental is nothing big for her. But still you have to push every month and the rental comes in after pushed by my agent. For some months, i had to block the access cards to demand rental. It worked. At the last remaining 2 months of the tenancy, the was no money coming in. The tenants attitude changed. She claims her business and husbands job is affected due to MCO, seeking sympathy. The most shocking thing happened when i received a message from TNB and SAJ claiming there is pending payment of RM 7200 and RM 400 respectively. ( My biggest mistake, i did not keep track on the utility payments ). On average, the monthly electric bill was RM 900. The tenant told that they will settle all the pending utility payments. They are currently waiting for claims from KWSP ( dont know if its true). After continuous demand, they cleared only the water bill payment.TNB have terminated the power supply due to payment overdue. I requested the Management Office to block them from moving out with their belongings. Now, they are staying at their relatives house (dont know where). Since the past last week , they dont reply my messages or pick up my calls. TNB is sending demand letters to me to make the payment asap.
My agent did a detail search about them, from word of mouth, they are a family with money but always cheats people..

Now...

There is pending amount around RM 11k that i need to receive from the tenant. This is excluding the damage that they have caused to the house. (They have turned the house to a rat hole. I manage to see the house once when they requested for some piping repairs.) Minus the rental deposits, will have 7k pending.

So..

Anyone here have been in this situation?
Please advise...what should i do?

P/s : I did some research online and disappointed to know how unprotected landlords are. The laws are more favourable for the tenant.


mini orchard
post May 28 2021, 04:37 AM

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In a contract like the TA, if a party defaults, the recourse for the aggrieved party is to go to court to recover the outstanding money plus damages.

If the judgement is in the aggrieved party favour, whether the defaulted party pays is another matter.

If the aggrieved fails to receive the money, then he has to initiate another court action to recover the money and if that also fails, another action to commence bankruptcy action.

All in, is a tiring process to use good money to recover bad money and many landlords will once awhile experience such tenants and is painful esp for first timers.

I wouldnt agree that the 'law' favours the tenant as in any other commercial contracts similar to selling and buying, if the buyer refuse to pays after receiving the goods, the recourse for seller is through legal action.

Similarly, if a seller cannot deliver the goods after payment and also decline to refund, the buyer recourse is to initiate legal action.

You can also engage a legal debt collector agency to recover your due. Dont deal with illegal ones as they may not pass you the money after collection.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: May 28 2021, 05:57 AM
cwt2878
post May 28 2021, 08:55 AM

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Wow... i tot tnb would've disconnected power much earlier on top of sending multiple sms and phone reminders
mini orchard
post May 28 2021, 09:53 AM

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QUOTE(cwt2878 @ May 28 2021, 08:55 AM)
Wow... i tot tnb would've disconnected power much earlier on top of sending multiple sms and phone reminders
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TNB SOP during covid will not disconnect supply but allow to pay by instalment.
acbc
post May 28 2021, 09:56 AM

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Better u evict the tenant and pay TNB in instalments unless u have the time and money to sue the tenant in court and make her a bankrupt.
gcheelim
post May 28 2021, 11:55 AM

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QUOTE(acbc @ May 28 2021, 09:56 AM)
Better u evict the tenant and pay TNB in instalments unless u have the time and money to sue the tenant in court and make her a bankrupt.
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I think TS has mentioned the tenants have moved out. Now TS is figuring out how to get the owed money from tenant to pay the TNB bill and other outstanding charges.
Created On 21/1/2021
post May 28 2021, 12:02 PM

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This is an owner's worst nightmare.
Phyarc
post May 28 2021, 12:38 PM

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Cost and time involved to recover may put you off.
First off, court will only grant judgement in default if the summon is received by the defendant, yet now you do not know where they stay. Even if you know, recipient may say no such person staying there...then what you gonna do...
But if you are determined, there is possibility to recover something.

Blocking tenant's access during their tenancy, unless provided in your tenancy agreement, may be illegal. Check that you are not in default or else tenant have reason to fight your breach, if they want to.

Can consider changing TNB bill to tenant's name before renting out next.
Then tenant will be responsible for paying the bills directly to TNB and for arrears thereof.
If not mistaken landlord can apply online via TNB online.

cablesguy
post May 28 2021, 12:45 PM

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QUOTE(cwt2878 @ May 28 2021, 08:55 AM)
Wow... i tot tnb would've disconnected power much earlier on top of sending multiple sms and phone reminders
*
When time to disconnect, you know I know la

Thats why its wise to change to tenants name, nowadays you never know

You can monitor via tnb app if under your name, and you should check monthly and remind the tenant if even late by a week, thats what we do, sorry to say, its also partially your fault

This post has been edited by cablesguy: May 28 2021, 12:52 PM
cdspins
post May 28 2021, 12:46 PM

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Nothing much you can. If you have time and energy... then engage a lawyer to do all of that. But mind you, the lawyer cost, time and etc... in the end, you may not get back much of your RM7000.

mini orchard
post May 28 2021, 01:46 PM

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QUOTE(Phyarc @ May 28 2021, 12:38 PM)
Can consider changing TNB bill to tenant's name before renting out next.
Then tenant will be responsible for paying the bills directly to TNB and for arrears thereof.
If not mistaken landlord can apply online via TNB online.
*
QUOTE(cablesguy @ May 28 2021, 12:45 PM)
When time to disconnect, you know I know la

Thats why its wise to change to tenants name, nowadays you never know

You can monitor via tnb app if under your name, and you should check monthly and remind the tenant if even late by a week, thats what we do, sorry to say, its also partially your fault
*
If the TNB account is registered with tenant .....

As long the property address has an outstanding, no reconnection will happen if is not settle. And tenant cannot open new account with the next rented house.

If owner wants to rent again, then the landlord has to clear the debt and recover the money from the previous tenant.

Whether is head or tail, TNB wins.
SureshG
post May 28 2021, 03:08 PM

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QUOTE(mini orchard @ May 28 2021, 01:46 PM)
If the TNB account is registered with tenant .....

As long the property address has an outstanding, no reconnection will happen if is not settle. And tenant cannot open new account with the next rented house.

If owner wants to rent again, then the landlord has to clear the debt and recover the money from the previous tenant.

Whether is head or tail, TNB wins.
*
This is not true. I have changed name before. TNB will supply if the property is changed to a new person. The accountability is on the person not the property. I have helped my relatives transfer TNB account when they buy new property - where previous owner has thousands of ringgit in areas - no issue with transfering. Whole thing done online in a week.


mini orchard
post May 28 2021, 03:28 PM

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QUOTE(SureshG @ May 28 2021, 03:08 PM)
This is not true. I have changed name before. TNB will supply if the property is changed to a new person. The accountability is on the person not the property. I have helped my relatives transfer TNB account when they buy new property - where previous owner has thousands of ringgit in areas - no issue with transfering. Whole thing done online in a week.
*
You are refering to subsale property ... yes. Default seller cannot open new account and will be blacklisted.

Not for rental. Otherwise many owners will sign fake TA and escape paying tnb bill.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: May 28 2021, 03:47 PM
SureshG
post May 28 2021, 11:42 PM

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QUOTE(mini orchard @ May 28 2021, 03:28 PM)
You are refering to subsale property ... yes. Default seller cannot open new account and will be blacklisted.

Not for rental. Otherwise many owners will sign fake TA and escape paying tnb bill.
*
Nope again not true. Contract law is very clear - you can only hold people accountable if they have a contract with you. There is no such thing if a electricity bill is on some other name that suddenly the owner becomes liable for it.


TSElonor89 P
post May 28 2021, 11:55 PM

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QUOTE(mini orchard @ May 28 2021, 04:37 AM)
In a contract like the TA, if a party defaults, the recourse for the aggrieved party is to go to court to recover the outstanding money plus damages.

If the judgement is in the aggrieved party favour, whether the defaulted party pays is another matter.

If the aggrieved fails to receive the money, then he has to initiate another court action to recover the money and if that also fails, another action to commence bankruptcy action.

All in, is a tiring process to use good money to recover bad money and many landlords will once awhile experience such tenants and is painful esp for first timers.

I wouldnt agree that the 'law' favours the tenant as in any other commercial contracts similar to selling and buying, if the buyer refuse to pays after receiving the goods, the recourse for seller is through legal action.

Similarly, if a seller cannot deliver the goods after payment and also decline to refund, the buyer recourse is to initiate legal action.

You can also engage a legal debt collector agency to recover your due. Dont deal with illegal ones as they may not pass you the money after collection.
*
Hi Thanks for your advise. Legal debt collector is something new..I will check on it..
TSElonor89 P
post May 28 2021, 11:57 PM

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QUOTE(gcheelim @ May 28 2021, 11:55 AM)
I think TS has mentioned the tenants have moved out. Now TS is figuring out how to get the owed money from tenant to pay the TNB bill and other outstanding charges.
*
They moved out but their belongings are still there. Not sure if i can break in and remove/sell off their stuffs only with police report.. without court order..
TSElonor89 P
post May 29 2021, 12:00 AM

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QUOTE(Phyarc @ May 28 2021, 12:38 PM)
Cost and time involved to recover may put you off.
First off, court will only grant judgement in default if the summon is received by the defendant, yet now you do not know where they stay. Even if you know, recipient may say no such person staying there...then what you gonna do...
But if you are determined, there is possibility to recover something.

Blocking tenant's access during their tenancy, unless provided in your tenancy agreement, may be illegal. Check that you are not in default or else tenant have reason to fight your breach, if they want to. 

Can consider changing TNB bill to tenant's name before renting out next.
Then tenant will be responsible for paying the bills directly to TNB and for arrears thereof.
If not mistaken landlord can apply online via TNB online.
*
Changing the TNB account holder name throughout the tenancy period is an expensive lesson that i have learnt. Crying out loud..

mini orchard
post May 29 2021, 05:09 AM

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QUOTE(SureshG @ May 28 2021, 11:42 PM)
Nope again not true. Contract law is very clear - you can only hold people accountable if they have a contract with you. There is no such thing if a electricity bill is on some other name that suddenly the owner becomes liable for it.
*
The CONTRACT LAW is very clear that the parties to contract is fully responsible to all the terms.

And I DIDNT say that the Landlord is responsible for Tenant arrears/contract.

TNB WILL continue to recover the arrears from the tenant through whatever means.

What I said is that IF the Landlord wants a reconnection, he needs to settle the arrears on behalf and recover the arrears from the Tenant. Otherwise, just leave the property vacant until the arrears are settle.

The Landlord has given FULL AUTHORITY to the Tenant to apply electricity supply to TNB via the Tenancy Agreement (CONTRACT LAW)

When the Tenant opens an account with TNB, the previous contract between the Landlord and TNB is AUTOMATICALLY terminated.

If Landlord is NOT the CONTRACTED user, how can he then has the legal authority to instruct TNB to disconnect electricity or close account or reconnection, albeit he is the owner ? (CONTRACT LAW)

Just telling TNB that Tenant breached TA or abandoned the property is NOT a good reason for a reconnection. TNB wouldnt know the problem between Landlord and Tenant. All they know is an arrear of payment on the property.

If at all TNB does a new connection, it is done on humantarian/personal/political reason, but I doubt it will unless with higher up instruction.

Residential arrears is just small arrears. What about commercial and industrial ? It can run to hundreds of thousands to millions. One is only seeing a minor part of the overall debts of TNB for the country.

If what you said is correct, TNB can never be able to sustain operations as a going concern. No company can survive another day without collecting their debts and continue to provide service.

Landlord cannot continue to profit at the expense of TNB.

In TNB Faqs, TNB will adivise Landlord to let Tenant open account and be responsible for the arrears. BUT they didnt mention about new connnection if the arrears are not paid by the Tenant.

THOSE WHO COME TO COURT TO SEEK JUSTICE MUST COME WITH CLEAN HAND.

Talking about CONTRACT LAW......

And ... Landlord can be a party to the scam !

A question for you ....

Why do local authority sealed the moveable property of the occupant (tenant) if outstanding assessment is not paid. Isnt the CONTRACT LAW is between the owner and local authority ?



I welcome any rebuttal but please dont just quote CONTRACT LAW. The topic is so wide ranging from offer to acceptance, misrepresentation, void and voidable contracts, capacity to contract, consideration, certainty, fraud, etc.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: May 29 2021, 08:24 AM
Phyarc
post May 29 2021, 08:35 AM

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QUOTE(mini orchard @ May 29 2021, 05:09 AM)
The CONTRACT LAW is very clear that the parties to contract is fully responsible to all the terms.

And I DIDNT say that the Landlord is responsible for Tenant arrears/contract.

TNB WILL continue to recover the arrears from the tenant through whatever means.

What I said is that IF the Landlord wants a reconnection, he needs to settle the arrears on behalf and recover the arrears from the Tenant. Otherwise, just leave the property vacant until the arrears are settle.

The Landlord has given FULL AUTHORITY to the Tenant to apply electricity supply to TNB via the Tenancy Agreement (CONTRACT LAW)

When the Tenant opens an account with TNB,  the previous contract between the Landlord and TNB is AUTOMATICALLY terminated.

If Landlord is NOT the CONTRACTED user, how can he then has the legal authority to instruct TNB to disconnect electricity or close account or reconnection, albeit he is the owner ? (CONTRACT LAW)

Just telling TNB that Tenant breached TA or abandoned the property is NOT a good reason for a reconnection. TNB wouldnt know the problem between Landlord and Tenant. All they know is an arrear of payment on the property.

If at all TNB does a new connection, it is done on humantarian/personal/political reason, but I doubt it will unless with higher up instruction.

Residential arrears is just small arrears. What about commercial and industrial ? It can run to hundreds of thousands to millions. One is only seeing a minor part of the overall debts of TNB for the country.

If what you said is correct, TNB can never be able to sustain operations as a going concern. No company can survive another day without collecting their debts and continue to provide service.

Landlord cannot continue to profit at the expense of TNB.

In TNB Faqs, TNB will adivise Landlord to let Tenant open account and be responsible for the arrears. BUT they didnt mention about new connnection if the arrears are not paid by the Tenant.

THOSE WHO COME TO COURT TO SEEK JUSTICE MUST COME WITH CLEAN HAND.

Talking about CONTRACT LAW......

And ... Landlord can be a party to the scam !
I welcome any rebuttal but please dont just quote CONTRACT LAW. The topic is so wide ranging from offer to acceptance,  misrepresentation, void and voidable contracts, capacity to contract, consideration, certainty, fraud, etc.
*
Well explained.

Notwithstanding Utility Account under tenant and contract law, has TNB ever or any possibility they still seek payment for outstanding bill from the landlord? Big corporation is also a business seeking profit afterall and sometimes a bully also.

I checked the landlord insurance, it covers damage by tenant, rental default/loss, legal fees but unfortunately not utility bill payment. Unless it can be custom written.
mini orchard
post May 29 2021, 08:43 AM

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QUOTE(Phyarc @ May 29 2021, 08:35 AM)
Well explained.

Notwithstanding Utility Account under tenant and contract law, has TNB ever or any possibility they still seek payment for outstanding bill from the landlord? Big corporation is also a business seeking profit afterall and sometimes a bully also.

I checked the landlord insurance, it covers damage by tenant, rental default/loss, legal fees but unfortunately not utility bill payment. Unless it can be custom written.
*
As long there is no connection, tnb will pursue the arrears through reminders and court actions from tenant.

In most cases, landlord will pay up unwillingly as a vacant property is a loss of income.

This post has been edited by mini orchard: May 29 2021, 08:44 AM

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