100Hz supposed to be clearer mah.

Not too sure myself.

Don't understand what you mean?

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Added on November 30, 2007, 6:40 pmI saw 1 JVC model which supports both 100hz and 120hz.

This post has been edited by Ngto: Nov 30 2007, 07:13 PM

All normal units only 50Hz and 60Hz.

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Added on December 7, 2007, 1:08 amThe 100Hz is through the TV itself, not input through the HDMI.

This post has been edited by Ngto: Dec 7 2007, 01:08 AM

From what I have gathered so far, (correct me if I am wrong)

Those LCD TV which can input 24p is not that useful unless the TV set itself support 120Hz. That's because in order for smooth judder free video, the frequency must be in multiples of 24 ... e.g 24, 48,..... 96 or 120hz, for perfect synchronization. Otherwise, even if the TV can input 24p, it will still have to do some sort of pulldown technique.

Currently those TV which claim can input 24P but does not have 120hz frequency is just marketing hype. It's akin to those TV which claim can input 1080P signal but the panel itself is only 1366x768 resolution.

I think you have mixed up what we were discussing. We are discussing one thing and you are talking about another.

My point is , If you want to input 24p then the best combination is with a 120Hz TV.

On A 100Hz TV which can input 24P, there will still be judder because of the uneven match (24p can't be multiplied to exactly match 100Hz frequency) . It will have to use some sort of technique to fill in the missing frames. How well the manufacturer implements the technique will determine how smooth the video will be.

On the other hand , if you have 120Hz TV which can input also input 24P signals, it won't have to do any pulldown because it just multiply the 24 by 5 times.

btw, I only mentioned the topic of 1080P input on a panel with resolution of 768 just to show an example of how people are sometimes misled into believing that any panel which can input 1080P signal is automatically a Full HD Panel itself.

Just like how people are misled that just because the TV can input 24P , it will automatically have the optimal frequency to handle the signal smoothly.

The two examples are not meant to be related, other than the fact that they are sometimes used to mislead people for marketing purposes.

This post has been edited by Ngto: Dec 11 2007, 03:07 AM

Since the topic is about LCD TV, there's where my main focus is on. LCD TVs are already going towards 100hz/120hz, so given the situation the best match for a judder free 24fps input would be a 120Hz TV.

But it doesn't mean 120Hz is the only option for 24fps. My main contention all along is that the best combination would be in multiples of 24 i.e - 48, 72, 96, 120hz.

Then again there is also no denying that other factors also contribute the smoothness of video. This is another topic in itself so I don't want to go into that.

As for Plasma TV, there already existed those with 72Hz before we started hearing about LCD TVs with 120hz. So that's one of the reasons why Plasma has a headstart in judder free 24fps input.

I might be wrong in some of my assessments, since you seem to know more than what I have been able to gather so far.

I am still in the learning process

This post has been edited by Ngto: Dec 11 2007, 01:59 PM

Isn't the above problem due to the DVD player itself which does a pulldown before sending the signal to the 120Hz TV.

With a Blu-ray player which can directly output pure 24fps to the 120Hz TV (with 24fps input) , wouldn't that result in smooth judder free video?

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Added on December 11, 2007, 7:37 pmWhat's the current price difference between the 3000 and the 3500?

This post has been edited by Ngto: Dec 11 2007, 07:37 PM

So it's just the current crop which aren't doing it the proper way?

In time can I presume they will have direct 5:5 pulldown especially when 24fps HD movies start appearing in numbers?

The fact is not whether it's analog VGA or digital DVI/HDMI. It's whether the manufacturer provides VGA with 1360x768 support or not.

In this case Toshiba doesn't provide 1360x768 support via VGA (reasons only known to them) while most other manufacturers does.

Do you know that LG LCD TV even provides support up to 1366x768 (including 1360x768) for VGA. If you have a video card which can enable 1368x768 resolution, then you can display that resolution on a 1366x768 setting on the LG using VGA. Only one line on each side of the panel is cut off.

This post has been edited by Ngto: Jan 4 2008, 10:55 AM

It means it can input a video signal up to 1080P. But since it is not really a 1080P panel , the image will downscaled back to it's native resolution.

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Added on January 5, 2008, 6:37 amPreviously I had wanted to buy the older Toshiba model too (before the new model came out) , but when I discovered the VGA port did not support 1360x768 I changed my mind.

But now since the newer 3500 model has 2 HDMI, maybe you can consider using one of the HDMI for video and the other through HDMI-DVI converter use it for PC 1360x768. Can leave the VGA unused.

From my experience most salesman are not well versed on the PC connections of LCD TVs. They will tell you everything also can, when you ask them. The best is to look at the user manual and check out the PC VGA connections specs to make sure, or directly test with your notebook computer.

Tip for setting 1360x768 resolution on TV

1) Select the proper aspect ratio on your TV (16:9)
2) Set your TV to 1360x768 resolution for PC mode (unless it is auto detection) and also the correct frequency 60hz, 75hz etc. (if it support multiple frequency).
3) Set your PC graphic card to match the resolution and frequency of your TV above.
4) If the screen picture is out of position and size, words fuzzy etc., make use of the "Auto Adjustment" feature of your LCD TV to automatically sychronize and optimise the signal to your Graphic Card. (This will involve some automatic changes to the Phase, position etc.).

I think Panasonic should be able to support 1360x768 60hz through VGA. But do make a confirmation yourself.

This post has been edited by Ngto: Jan 5 2008, 06:41 AM

Can you please confirm that you are connected directly from your computer VGA to VGA input on Toshiba TV? Not DVI/HDMI converter using HDMI input on TV, but directly from PC VGA out to VGA in TV? Also can you confirm that your 7600GT is set at 1360x768 resolution (VGA) and your TV (VGA/RGB) is also set at 1360x768 resolution?

I have been asking Toshiba users for feedback before but no one has responded. I even called up Toshiba technical people, but no one there even knows for sure.

The reason I want to know is because the specs for the old A3000E model shows only the following resolution through VGA :-

1) VGA 640x480 (60/75hz)
2) SVGA 800x600 (60/75hz)
3) XGA 1024x768 (60/70/75hz)
4) S-XGA 1280x1024 (60hz) - Compressed

The A3500 model also shows the following specs (refer to local Toshiba website -http://www.toshiba.com.my/servlet/svtUProductPage?func=spec&proID=7528037000 )

RGB
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1) VGA: 640 X 480 / 60Hz - YES
2) SVGA: 800 X 600 / 60Hz - YES
3) XGA: 1024 X 768 / 60Hz - YES
4) S-XGA: 1280 X 1024 / 60Hz - YES (Compressed)
5) W-XGA: 1360 X 768 (60Hz) - N/A
6) W-XGA: 1052 X 768 (60/70/75Hz) - N/A

So from their technical specs above it doesn't show that their TV support 1360x768 resolution through VGA.

I would appreciate if you can confirm that the specs above are wrong.

This post has been edited by Ngto: Jan 8 2008, 10:28 PM

Thanks for taking the trouble to post the pics. Very thoughtful of you.

I have a 7600GT too but it has one VGA and one DVI. I had wanted to buy the 3000E model (only 1 HDMI port) about 2 mths back (that time the 3500E not available yet). I opened a separate and specific thread in Audiopile forums asking about the VGA discrepency in Toshiba specs, but no Toshiba users could provide feedback. So I decided not to buy the Toshiba.

If you had been around then, I would be using a Toshiba right now

This post has been edited by Ngto: Jan 9 2008, 02:37 AM

He was using the DVI to VGA adaptor since his Graphic Card doesn't have a VGA port but has 2 DVI. Don't know if direct VGA to VGA will be the same. Should't be any different, but better to check it out just to make sure before buying.

This post has been edited by Ngto: Jan 9 2008, 09:45 AM

Haha I know , my mistake. But I already edited my reply before I saw your current reply.

I am not a Sharp owner so I am just guessing. Possibly the 50hz/60hz just show the original source signal frequency. If fine motion is turned on, then probably it's already converted to 100hz. But the smoothness is only good for 50Hz sources because of the perfect doubling match. For the 60Hz source I guess it will still have to do pulldown before displaying in 100hz, so it won't be smooth.

Let's wait for feedback from other A53M owners.

Have you tried calling Sharp Malaysia, how to check for sure. Whatabout the User Manual? I am sure there must be some documentation there.

This post has been edited by Ngto: Jan 15 2008, 05:26 PM

Our TV signals are 50Hz (PAL). DVD movies are mostly 60Hz (NTSC).

On your second question, If your LCD TV is 720P (which is the case of the A53M) then

1) if you select 1080i in your DVD player, your TV will scale it to 720P
2) if you select 720P in your DVD player, it will pass through untouched (720P).
3) if you select 480i or 480P in your DVD player, your TV will scale it to 720P.

The rule is whatever compatible signal you input to your LCD TV it will always be scaled to the native resolution.

btw, the purpose of a upscale DVD player is to upscale normal DVD (which is 480P) to 720P/1080i. Although your TV can also scale 480P to 720P , stand alone upscale player normally do the job better. That's why people buy good upscalers e.g Sony 76H, instead of letting the TV do the upscale from a normal (Non upscale) 480i/P DVD player.

This post has been edited by Ngto: Jan 15 2008, 06:14 PM

Well it's not quite 720P, but most people use the term for 768 panels because of the small diff which is negligible. It's understood what I meant.

This post has been edited by Ngto: Jan 15 2008, 07:51 PM

You are confusing the 50hz/60Hz thing to the post about resolution which I was replying to Matrix. Two Different thing.

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Added on January 15, 2008, 9:27 pmAs I have said before most people refer to 1368x768 panels as 720P panels. Technically of course it's not entirely true (apart from the small diffference), but it's just a matter of relative convenience when they use the term to compare 720P and 1080P. If you want to go on about small technical differences whch your super sharp vision can detect, then good for you

In the meantime try to help Matrix out with his problem , instead of trying to show how much you know



This post has been edited by Ngto: Jan 15 2008, 09:27 PM

Thanks for taking the time to provide feedback. I learn a lot from feedback . Last time I was also looking around for LCD TV and A53M was one of them, but I couldn't get any feedback from users.

Most people do not notice any difference or minimal diff between 720P and 1080i because it is eventually scaled back to the native resolution 720P (or 1366x768 if you want to be exact ) by the TV anyway. Sometimes even if there are noticeable differences it is mostly by chance and the the way it is upscaled by the player.

Perhaps you could try borrowing the Sony 76H or 78H HDMI upscaler from someone and see if the upscale quality is better than your Samsung HT. Samsung upscaler are not very well known for their quality.

Btw, do you have a computer connected to the Sharp A53M. If you do can you let me know about how it is connected (HDMI/DVI or VGA) and what is the resolution and refresh rates it supports. Thanks.