Why the heck when I mess around with the pentatonic box shape scale, it sounds like some kinda ancient chinese song?Sounds like some kinda kungfu fight gonna start...

i kena pawned kao kao by the trio la

i guess you just have to find the correct notes to connect to get the flow going...i just treat it as a join-the-dot game, just join them up and see what i can get out of it...of course, it doesn't sound pleasant all the time

so asura, how did you improve so fast?

Haha, yea man. Spill your secrets asura.

i think he eat pati ayam

nothing much of a secret, i just memorize all the position/box pattern of the pentatonic all over the fretboard...

then when you're free jamming, just find the key of the pentatonic and start playing 'join-the-notes', as the pentatonic is just 5 different patterns, spread out all over the fretboard...

and i just proceed to learn pentatonics blues from there, but still struggling with major/minor scales

it might sound stupid, but that's how i did it...

edit: typo

This post has been edited by asura_86: Aug 29 2007, 11:29 PM

*goes and buys pati ayam*...doesn't work dude...

btw, how do you find out what key a song is in??

His secret is listening to great guitarists like Syu, Akira Takasaki and Kiko Loureiro! Epic moU!

lesson 1 - the powerslide.
*goes to play a video of pete townsend doing the powerslide*

nobody will remember your solo anyway, but they will remember the powerslide

one cheating way is to learn all the modes in different box shapes. that way, anywhere u are on the fretboard you can just whack something within the shape and still be safe. this my friend, is called guitar wanking.

on asura's method of connecting the dots, im assuming its between 2 notes. this technique isnt very melodic, but it works for short solos in a rock context. you can play notes within the scale to play safe. however, you can add crossover notes(chromatics) to reach that target note. it creates more tension. (listen to how John Petrucci). however, dont emphasise these notes(that are not in the scale) in your solos...unless u wanna claim you're some canggih fusion jazz metal player. good notes to start a solo with is the root note (duh), the 3rd and the 5th (if you know your theory, you'll know these 3 notes make up the core of a chord). a simple way to start is to slide to any one of those notes. another way to start of a solo (metal style) is to do a fast scale run all the way up to your 'target' note (target note= the note you're aiming to reach)

here are some tips thats in my head (hey its midnight and im sleepy):
1. guitar techniques. this is one strong advantage we have over other instruments such as piano. maximise the techniques you know. if all you do is tremolo pick, try to add some bends, pulloffs, sweeps, vibrato, dive bombs, slides, etc. Now it might sound simple but think well if you have really fully maximised the technique.
a. take for example, slide. one underused technique is sliding down to the note! we're so used to just sliding up to a note.
b. another example is bends. we usually bend from one note up. there are many ways to do this. you can bend first(not pick or sound the note) then pick and release the bend. or you can hit the note then quickly bend up. or you could do it very bluesy, by hitting the note, add vibrato then slowly bend the note up.

See theres so many things you can do to add colour to your solo. Now imagine combining 2 techniques! Bend, then tap then release your bend then let go of your tapping note or why not sweep then tap? showoff/posing possibilities are endless

2. Think of solos like a story. do an intro, build the story, build a climax, do an outro. im sure u've heard of this many times. different people have different approaches to this. some can just think of music notes whereas some cant. you can try techniques like having a movie scene in your head and you play a solo as if its soundtrack to tell what is going on. or some people would like to think of colours (red=angry/brave, pink=girly) and then solo based on that colour.

3. work on your hearing.
a. be able to hear the difference between intervals. this is good to give you a clearer picture of what a melody should sound like. it also helps for you to be able to tell more clearly when listening to a piece of music. if you work on this well, the next time you listen to a dragonforce guitar solo, you wouldnt consider it noise but can tell in greater detail what they both are actually doing.

b. its also good to be able to know how each note sounds different. example is play the sweet child of mine solo in its original key. then, play it a full step down. hear that it has so much difference to the feel of the solo even though its exactly the same solo. the choice of notes you choose does make a difference. it might work for a song but might not for a different one.

4. know all the notes accross your fretboard. i think this should be number 1, but heck im lazy to edit as im typing everything out from my head. how can you solo when you dont even know what notes thats on your fretboard? memorising box shapes will only help you so far. the benefits of knowing where the notes are is endless. im lazy to type everything. one of them is you can play the note thats closest to you instead of choosing a further one. this minimises movement and helps speed. another is tone. is the E on the 2nd fret of the 3rd string the same as the one on the 12th fret 1st string? hell no. the one on the first string sounds thicker, due to the string gauge.

5. think outside the box. how? dont think of it how a guitarist would play it. try thinking what would a pianist do? what would a violinist play? if you're not sure what they play as you dont know the isntrument, try learning songs and transcribing them to guitar. like for me, i learn what vanessa carlton plays on the piano on my guitar. it opens up a whole new view on how you could play your instrument.
another good one is play like how a singer would sing it. one way to work/practice on this is take a song, and try to solo exactly the singers role (play what the singer is singing). you will notice how smart the choices of notes are. since a vocalist range is small compared to a guitar, the amount of choices the vocalist have is very limited. second thing you'll notice is how much articulation a vocalist has (the rests, the accents, the dynamics, etc). you can create a solo with just ONE note using all these articulations.

thats all i can think of right now. sorry if i sound unorganised. its late and im chatting on msn as im typing this.
hope it helps

want more? pay me for guitar lessons.

This post has been edited by echobrainproject: Aug 30 2007, 12:27 AM

Dude, you are my hero!!! That should be stickied!! Thanks a lot EBP. Seriously.

but i guess as much it is cool to just wank and spam any note on the fret board, slow down. . . and develop a good habit to target notes. . .

and if you already know the fretboard try and play in 5ths and 3rds. . . then move to diminished and stuff like that. . .

then throw in some chromatics. . .

then learn off key harmony. . .

how to end with a tensed ending etc. . .

stuff to make your playing your playing. .

individuality. . .

basically try and learn to target notes first. . . then learn jazz. . . lol

mindless wanking is fun but if you really writing a proper song i doubt it's that fun. . . heck look at serpent ash its all structured properly =D thats why they my no.1 band! also oceans of fire!

This post has been edited by Equilibrium777: Aug 30 2007, 01:21 AM

care to explain more? give some practical examples.

Another way is to just do a scale run at XXX nps throughout your entire solo... the mindless wankfest style...

But seriously... when in doubt, let 'er rip...

"If you've got it, FLAUNT it!" - MAB

Since you've got some pretty hot techniques in your arsenal, you can try doing it the Malmsteen style...

<scale run><scale run><slide up to 21st fret E string><scale run><bend><6-string 15-fret sweep><3-string ascending diminished sweep arpeggios><slide up to 21st fret E string><scale run><slide up to 21st fret E string>

...oh yeah, and to find out what key a song/riff is in...

First, you gotta know what a scale is...

So the 2 common scales in rock/metal = E minor and A minor
E minor scale: E F# G A B C D E
A minor scale: A B C D E F G A

Say you've got a song where the chord progression is E5 E5 C5 D5 (standard Iron Maiden progression mou...)...

Since it has E, C, D... it could be either E minor or A minor right? But since it starts on the E5 power chord, chances are it's in E minor... since people usually start the chord progression with the root note (E in this case).

So when you solo, you can use the E minor scale... i.e. play E, F#, G, A, B, C or D on your fretboard (this is where you'll need to know where the notes are on your fretboard)...

Of course, since you're into harmonic minor, just replace the D with an Eb and voila... E harmonic minor...

Coolest motto I've found recently comes from Elias, the new Sonata Arctica guitarist... "Fake it til' you make it!"

the last resort if you don't know the heck how to apply the scales to the solo....


shred it like Kerry King!!!!

LOL!

but seriously... i also have the problem on how to apply scales to a solo. i know the simple scales like E minor or A minor, but i just don't know how to lay them in a song, like how many notes to play on a note, should i change the pattern or when could i change the pattern, should i follow the note which the rhythm is playing bla bla bla....

for the moment, i could only 'try' to solo a slow song using whatever-scale-i-dont-know that i could think of... really pathetic.

This post has been edited by soulfly: Aug 30 2007, 11:58 AM

I se-f#$)#$-cond that!

Who needs scales when you have SPEED!

my suggestion is not to simply concentrate on practising scales... but listening to songs helps a lot... listen to as many genre of songs as possible... keep songs in ur ears all the time... when u drive... when u eat... sleep... sh!t... all the time...

and screw ur metal/rock pride man... anything goes... to me blues is the best place to start appreciating solo improv... once u're bored with it can move to jazz... and don't limit to listening solo's on guitars only... i've learned that other instruments can highly influence the way u solo... i personally like sax and keyboard solos in blues or jazz songs... i think sax has more feel to a song than guitar...

final advice... learn to play bass groove... it worked for me... i've just started playing bass less than a year i think my improvs on guitar has changed tremendously.... working on bass groove helps u play in close relation to other instruments in the ensamble... so u're not just rambling aimlessly...

that's my 2 cents? 4 cents? 2 ringgit? whichever applies...

you're the shit man!

damnit... i knew i should've kept that to myself