For me, she has a lot of downsides:

CONS:
- She needs the new weapon to excel due to Blizzard set and Cryo resonance. Other 5* and 4* are pretty bad.
- Her burst is easier to miss compares to other perma-freeze team comps like Ganyu, Chongyun and Kaeya main. Harder to fullstar Abyss in a single run compares to the aforementioned cryo characters.
- Forever in Perma-freeze team comp, can't fit in melt comp like Ganyu/Kaeya.
- Her dashing animation is better than Mona but still randomly stuck at uneven terrain. And can't dash jump
- Doesn't seem to work very well with new support characters. (Eg: Kazuha plunge shatter frozen enemies, Baal's E messing with cryo application, Sara better at buffing Electro)

PROS:
- Blizzard set is easier to build, compares to the other 4x set.
- Her charge attack is AOE and able to hit enemies inside Venti's burst. I believe this is the first melee character that can do this.
- Perma-freeze means you don't have to bring a healer most of the time. One extra free slot for you to bring whoever you like.
- Old characters like Venti, Mona, Bennet, Xingqiu works well with her.
- Waifu material.

This post has been edited by laobeh: Jul 27 2021, 05:32 PM

Claiming all the rewards in a lump sum feels so great!



This post has been edited by laobeh: Aug 16 2021, 07:29 PM

It's not about whether Wanderer or Blizzard is better, it's more to you want to play with all Ganyu's kit or only focusing on dealing the biggest numbers.

Wanderer/Melt Ganyu is a burst-build that solely depends on charge shot while neglecting her Elemental Skill, Burst and passive talent. In order to provide constant pyro for Ganyu to melt, she needs Bennet+Kazuha, or Bennet+Xiangling. This team is less popular cause Ganyu's gameplay experience is crippled and most importantly Bennet+Kazuha/Bennet + Xiangling themselves can form as the other team in the abyss. If I were to pair Bennet/Xiangling/Kazuha in the same team, I might as well got for all-pyro team like Xiangling, Klee or Yoimiya, or pairing with less OP chars like Childe, Fischl and Diluc.

Bennet & Xiangling with the OG squad:


The only instance I would use Wanderer set is when I need to deal big burst in a very short timeframe. Eg: Defeating Masanori within 30 seconds.

Blizzard/Perma-freeze Ganyu on the other hand is with lower charge shot damage, but in return her Elemental Skill and Elemental Burst provides lots of consistent damage and utilities. Mona and Diona is not a popular choice in Abyss other than perma-freeze team, so it's a no brainer to go for this team comp. While Anemo's CC is nerfed in 2.0, freeze is still prevalent because they need to promote Ayaka. Better cherish this moment brfore MHY starts making most new enemies immune to freeze post 2.2.

In Abyss, if you fuckup the Melt rotation, you're most likely gonna reset the chamber, while perma-freeze team is more forgivable because the damage is consistent.

In overworld, both artifacts have similar performances. But I would rank Shimenawa set higher than those 2 mentioned. In overworld you rarely use burst or melt, but spamming Elemental Skill and sniping from one spot to another spot instead.

Couldn't receive the rewards due to inventory maxed out. So they send them all via the mailing system instead.

I have a total of 351 chests and 172 extra Electro Sigils, but this is not the max amount cause I've seen people with higher figures than me.

This post has been edited by laobeh: Aug 21 2021, 05:25 PM

I probably won't need Sango Pearls, PM me your UID.

As for Specters, I might need it for the free polearm.

In that case, you better skip Raiden and wait for Liyue 3C rerun, or go for budget National Team. C6 R5 cost around 10k, ten freaking thousands, 4 times our minimum wages! You expect mHY gonna release a new C0 R1 character(can get by not spending any money to some extent) having comparable DPS to C6 R5?

For me, they're all great DPS characters, hell even OG chars like Diluc and Childe doing great in Abyss.

In terms of usability, at C0 I would rank Ganyu > Hutao > Xiao, Eula > Raiden.
At C6 Ganyu > Raiden > Eula > Xiao > Hutao . Reason being at C6 Ganyu and Raiden will have multiple roles while the others only DPS.

Also, 70k non-melt ganyu is very very uncommon. Normal player's figure is only around 30k, whale is 40-55k. To achieve 70k per shot you would probably need R5 Amos, perfect artifacts and Childe, which will likely cost a lot more than C6 characters(pre 2.0).
Melt Ganyu is more prone to failure than Eula in harder content. If one spends the same resources and money on Eula, she can deal millions and ends the fight quicker, easily becoming the best DPS.

In your example you said you acknowledged Geovishap is with 60% Phy Res but don't find that your argument is invalid/biased. Think of it this way, this is like saying Ganyu sucks cause she at C6 R5 only deals 21k(70% Cryo Resistance) per shot to Frostarm Lawachurl, or Xiao can only deal 2000 normal attack to Boreas. We need to appraise a char at her best role and situation, not the worst one.

---

Raiden's Disadvantages:
- Electro element, weak resonance and reaction. (No solution, unless MHY rework Electro element in the future, which has very low chances since 2.0 & 2.1 is the best timing)
- Suppose to be a support but need to on-field for 7-9s. For most cases, she will be a hindrance if you did not min-max her. (No solution)
- Very mediocre at C0 with The Catch. If you build her with high ER then you have to sacrifice ATK and CD. (Solvable with $$, Grasscutter provides the missing ATK and C6 Sara provide additional ATK and CD.)
- Her burst does not snapshot. (No solution)
- Raiden is not a good electro teammate for low constellation or poorly build Eula. 4* Fischl will most likely outdps C0-C1 Raiden, and Raiden also probably won't provide enough ER for Eula.

Conclusions: Burst-focused char. Meant for hard content like Vagabond Sword. Bad gameplay experience in overworld. Split between sub-dps and support, easily replaceable by many other chars if she at low constellation.

--

Hutao's Disadvantage:
- Charge attack cost stamina. (Solvable with C1, removes charge attack stamina)
- Need to maintain half HP to maximize DPS. (Solvable by not bringing healer)
- But she will have low survivability!? (Solvable by pairing her with Xingqiu and/or Zhongli)
- Bad at co-op. (Not solvable)

Conclusions: Burst-focused char. Meant for hard content like Vagabond Sword. Bad gameplay experience in overworld. Good even at low-constellation and 4 star weapon.

--

Ganyu's Disadvantages:
- Easy to interrupted when charge attack. (Solvable by Zhongli or Diona's Shield)
- Hard to aim on mobile. (Solvable by git-gud or don't play on mobile )
- Boring gameplay, and too much on-field time. (Solvable with $$, C6 change her from on-field DPS to burst DPS)

Conclusions: Perfect for both overworld and hard content. Good even at low-constellation and 4 star weapon(need good aiming skill tho). C1 solve ER disadvantage, C6 solve aiming disadvantage.

--

Eula's Disadvantages:
- Hard to recharge burst. (Solvable by Diona with ER build)
- Burst easy to miss. (Solvable by git-gud)
- Bad at co-op. (Not solvable)
- Boring gameplay, and too much on-field time. (Somewhat solvable with $$, at C6 you only needs to hit a few strikes then you can swap to other char to proc Eula's burst)

Conclusions: Burst-focused char. Meant for hard content like Vagabond Sword. Bad gameplay experience in overworld. Constellations focus on providing more DPS and less about different gameplay mechanics. Easy to build(only need to focus on her and don't have to spend much resources on other teammates). Good with every 5* claymore, even the bad one like Unforged and Skyward.

---

Xiao's Disadvantages:
- Hard to recharge burst. (Solvable by Sucrose with ER build)
- Spamming plunging attack during burst is quite boring. (Solvable with $$, at C6 you don't have to spam plunging attack anymore)
- Very weak if there's only one enemy on the field. (Solvable, don't bring him in boss bottle )
- Bad at co-op. (Not solvable)

Conclusions: Burst-focused char. Meant for Abyss. Good even at low-constellation and 4 star weapon.

--

TLDR: On-field focused char will be easily replaceable. Off-field supports char will not.

Well, that's why I rank Ganyu as number 1 for both C0(F2P) and C6(full potential)...

For most boss fight, Ganyu solo is A LOT easier than co-op. Ganyu with Amos doesn't need to co-op, but others need.

The reason most of the Ganyu at Azdaha co-op is either to help or flexing. So most of the Ganyu you meet are probablyˌwell-stocked.

70k is NOT common, trust me.

Hmm not bad, not bad. Actually I don't have issue with her application frequency, even 4s application is doing okay for perma-freeze build. I just don't like the forced on-field requirement.

She will be pretty good for Ayaka because Ayaka during burst downtime is not that pleasing to play with, maybe a buffed Kokomi can help dealing considerable dmg. But Kokomi is still not a very good hydro replacement for Ganyu, unless the new Abyss debuff is so stronk that even Mona with Prototype Amber can't out heal it.

For Ganyu Perma-Freeze team:
- Mona+Thrilling Dragon provides the best overall DPS, decent hydro application if pairing with Venti. Survivability is just okay with quick-swapping.
- Mona+Prototype Amber provides passable survivability and good overall DPS, decent hydro application if pairing with Venti.
- Childe C4 provides the best hydro application while sacrificing a lot of overall DPS.
- Kokomi C0 provides the best survivability while sacrificing overall DPS, decent hydro application without the need of Venti, maybe can fit in Kazuha to provides even higher overall DPS?
- Kokomi C6 provides the best survivability and potentially the best overall DPS.
- But the biggest issue is all the non-kokomi team comps above are already out-damage all current contents, Kokomi still doesn't provide as many changes and seems kinda redundant right now.

For Ayaka, Xingqiu alone can provide almost 100% Perma-Freeze uptime, as well as resistance to interruption. With Mona, most bosses ended in 1 rotation. Kokomi resistance ends whenever she's not on the field. Kokomi can only compete with Xingqiu if her constellation higher, which makes her not that 'META' anymore.

For Raiden Electro team:
- Raiden+Beidou/Sara+Kokomi C0+Kazuha: Dmg so so, survivability very okay. Cannot break Electro shield.
- Raiden+Beidou/Sara+Xingqiu C6+Kazuha: Damage okay, survivability okay. Cannot break Electro shield.
- Raiden+Bennet+Kazuha+Flex(Beidou/Sara/Xingqiu/Xiangling/Venti/Zhongli/Childe): Damage very okay, survivability okay. Can break ALL shields and the last slot is flex(!important).

As for Vaporise team:
- Kokomi+Bennet+Xiangling+Kazuha: Damage okay, survivability super okay.
- Childe+Bennet+Xiangling+Kazuha: Damage super okay, survivability okay.

Conclusion: META wise, quick-swap teams(Xiangling, Bennet, Xingqiu, Diona, Fischl, Beidou, Kazuha, Mona, Jean)are still more efficient. 2.1 chars are all underperforming and non-META. You have to spend a great amount of resources to achieve what META chars can do with only partial of it. Kokomi's major disadvantage is her long on-field requirement, not the hydro application rate. All her replacements are able to provide ample damage and/or survivability off-field while Kokomi HAVE TO BE on-field . And no, MHY won't ever change this, she will be 100% on-field at launch, off-field supports are just way too OP.

Cause there's a meme team for C0 Raiden which is Full-EM team comp. Raiden goes for full EM and SACRIFICING her burst, she is only there to provides E. Basicly a weaker Fischl but more fun to play with cause unlike Fischl you don't have to keep repositioning with Raiden.

Damn, I actually like how they add more weights to Nobushi and Kairagi.

As if Electro is not weak enough. RIP to all Overload team comp, and I thought we finally can retire Anemo god for good

- This is a meme/overworld teamcomp, not the most efficient one(META). Damage wise it'll be lower than other existing 4* fireworks teamcomps.
- Raiden only on the field for like 2 secs every 25 secs to cast her E then ciao. You don't use her burst at all. No booba sword for you.
- EM so that her E will have higher damage when proc Electrocharged or Overload.
- While Fischl and Albedo's E do have full uptime but you need to switch to them from time to time to repositioning their E. Fischl's Oz range are short, and Albedo's flower keeps getting destroyed. Raiden's E follows your character, just like Beidou or Xingqiu.

@happy_berry jeng jeng jeng jeng

C6 Kokomi cause there's so less healer main here, a C6 healer can come in handy during extreme hard co-op events

Hahaha, nah, skip Kokomi. Let MHY know players don't like lacklustre 5 star.

Which floor are you struggling at? Floor 11?

First Half: Bennet + Xiangling+ Venti + Diona
- Always pair Xiangling with Bennet together. He will solve her ER issue.
- Venti is not necessary, but great at Chamber 1 and 2.
- Diona should be able to tank Frostarm Lawachurl and Cryo Hypostasis well.
- Whole team is ER-focused quick-swap team, just keep spamming all skills and bursts.

----

Second Half: Childe + Ganyu + Jean + Flex(Xingqiu/Raiden/Mona)
- Ganyu to counter Thunder Lawachurl, Abyss Lector & Electro Mages
- Childe to counter Pyro Hypostatis & Pyro Mages
- Jean to shred and healing in Chamber 2
- Xingqiu top pick if he's with Sacrificial Sword(180+ ER) and no ER issue, Raiden if Ganyu/Childe/Jean with very low ER. Mona if struggling at Pyro Hypostasis.

Can you provide some screenshots or a short clip?

Of course different reception. The mindsets between western and asian gamers are vastly different.

Western players mostly despise the idea of whaling on games, most of them looking down on players that spending real money on gacha games. They consider this as 'pay-to-win' and cheating.

Asian players have higher acceptance to 'pay-to-win' and love to flex their wealth. In Chinese community, F2P players are being called 'parasite' while whales are called 'big boss'. They see no problem for one to spend on gacha nor consider it as 'cheating'.

(Asian) otakus/gamers have cash but not many places to spend them. They pirate most digital stuffs, don't spend on cosmetics/fashion. So game companies will milk them with competitive system(MOBA, BR, FPS), dividing the community and make it toxic. Hates will then induce them to make purchases for better advantage when it comes to PVP. MHY said they doesn't want to go for this path, instead they found a way to induce the community to willingly paid for it. They focus on stories, characters(waifu husbando) & world-building etc. They called this 'Spend for the Love(为爱买单)', kek. Of course, this doesn't last long, to collect waifus, they only need to be C0. So they also started to introduce competitive systems to doctrine players to get high constellations.

So most Western players normally review a character based on C0+4* Weapon, while Chinese players reviewing with the most 'cost-efficient' build(Eg: Most Chinese TC base on C2+The Catch, less on C0).

Frankly speaking, C0 Baal is quite a bad battery, at least for current content. She provides 'unique' gameplay(ER Bot for whole party) , but sadly not very excel at it. And electro element is not helping here.

Gauging Baal's ER efficiency in the trial stage is not very accurate, since it drop additional elemental orbs there.

DPS wise, Baal C2+Signature Weapon is okay but not very spectacular at it. For me, C2 is a trap MHY trying to milk your primo resets. Currently Baal is so incomplete that even if you are so lucky by getting her to C2 with freemogems, next few banners gonna be characters that pair even better with Baal and induce you to draw them. For me Baal will always be a 100% support/utilities role even at high constellations. Fast forward 2 versions and a new Electro DPS char will outdps C2 Baal at C1

To become a good DPS, you will need C6 Sara to make up with Baal's low ATK and CritDMG. But having 2 electro chars in the same team (and none of them is shielder/healer) is a very bad setup. You will have a very non-responsive team comp for future content. Normally a second char with same element in a team is to provide shield(Diona, Beidou), heal(Diona Bennet), recharge(Diona, Bennet, Albedo), +DMG(Bennet, Sara, Diona, Albedo, Beidou), -RES/-DEF(Beidou, Xingqiu, Klee, Ayaka, Zhongli). Sara being the second Electro in the team only provides DMG, no shield no heal no recharge no -RES-DEF. That's why some players are mad when learnt that their high constellation Beidou that have multiple roles doesn't work wells in Baal dream team.

Currently, a 'perfect' team that can perform well in almost every content consist of: 1x DPS, 1x Elemental Enabler, 1x Healer/Shielder/ER Bot/Buffer
Eg:
Existing Popular Teams
- Hutao(DPS) + Xingqiu(Enabler) + Zhongli(Shielder) + Flex
- Xiangling(DPS) + Xingqiu/Childe(Enabler) + Bennet(Buffer+Healer+ER Bot) + Flex
- Ganyu(DPS) + Mona(Enabler+Healer) + Venti(CC+ER Bot) + Flex
- Keqing(DPS) + Xingqiu(Enabler) + Bennet(Buffer+Healer) + Flex
- Eula(DPS) + Fischl(ER Bot+Enabler) + Diona(Healer+Shielder+ER Bot) + Flex
- Xiao(DPS) + Zhongli(Shielder) + Sucrose/Jean(Healer/ER Bot) + Flex
- Ayaka(DPS) + Xingqiu/Mona(Enabler/Buffer) + Diona(Healer+Shielder+ER Bot) + Flex

Last slot is flexible and this is very important. It can be Venti/Kazuha/Sucrose/Bennet/Mona for big burst damage, it can be archer to tackle flying enemies, or it can be different elements to break elemental shields. Every Abyss rotations you can just change the 4th slot and clear them in a single run at ease.

Bring Baal to the 4th slot and you will find that she does not really improve the team performance. None of them needs further energy recharge, they are all self-sufficient already.

For example in In Eula team, every second low constellation Baal on the field is DPS loss. C6 Fischl will outperform her because she doesn't need to on-field for 9 seconds. Fischl C6 is possible even for F2P/low-spender cause you get her first copy on the free event, then appears on Starglitter shop twice, on Featured Banner 4 times. By using Baal you trade DPS with comfy. Fischl needs constant repositioning while Baal doesn't need to. Other candidates on Eula Team consist of Diona and Bennet, this 2 doesn't benefit much from a dedicated ER bot like Baal.

Currently, Eula team is already almost fully optimized even without Baal. Not much that can improvise Eula teamcomp other than an Electro char that can provide -DEF or +ATKSPD in the future.

---

Baal does not work very well with all current 5 star DPS chars. Right now almost all DPS requires long on-field time. Sharing precious on-field time to DPS Baal is a DPS lost. C4 Ayaka is almost perfect but too bad she's Cryo and needs freeze debuff badly. So for now Baal can only make use of ER hungry and long cooldown burst 4 stars like Xingqiu, Beidou & Xiangling.

That being said, not optimized does not mean it's bad. She will be irreplaceable for a long time just like the other 2 existing archons, especially at C6. I still prefer Overload and Electrocharge compares to perma-freeze and vaporise. I've been playing with Overload(Diluc+Fischl) and Electrocharge(Keqing+Fischl+Xingqiu) team comp since 1.0 Abyss. Hell, I still run Level 60 Keqing in floor 9 to 11 most of the time, electro is weak but fun .

For my Baal, I'm running both Overload+Fireworks team comp. While it's not the best-optimized one it's very pleasant and refreshing to play with. I have high hopium that Baal will be a good 'investment' for future content (Yae, Cyno etc )

This post has been edited by laobeh: Sep 4 2021, 02:10 AM

TLDR Version (EN):


MOARRR (CN):

Haha, mana ada many people complain about her. Most are debating her optimal role instead.

C0 Raiden only excels in support role no matter how much effort you put into her burst. You will need C6 Sara if want to build her as Burst role, how many C0 Raiden players have C6 Sara? And sadly C6 Sara is quite a bad investment as her buff does not work well with other Electro like Beidou, Keqing and Fischl.

C2 Raiden is excel in both Sub-DPS and Support. But I would recommend to save up for C1 Hutao+C0 Ganyu if you don't have them in your roaster yet. Raiden is a very good addition for whales or players with lots of resources(high constellations sub-dps, 5 star weapons), but perform so-so for regular players that still struggle in Abyss.

C6 Raiden best support ever with support good dps. Nuff said.

In the end it's your char and game so you can build Raiden however you like, but I won't go telling everyone niche build is a better build. It is not optimal and taking a lot of resources/effort to achieve arguably sub-par performance.

The same applies to other niche builds like Pyro Keqing/Xiao, DPS Kazuha/Venti, Physical Xiangling/Zhongli/Fischl and Melt Ganyu. I do have some of these niche builds but I won't go around telling them it's better

Venti and Zhongli can be burst DPS, but they doesn't need to cause they're not VERY EXCEL at it.

Instead, they are good at:
C0 Venti:
- Provide 20 energy to 1 element
- AOE pulling
- VV set -40% RES to 1 element
- Resonance: Lower skill's cooldown time

C0 Zhongli:
- 100% shield up-time = more DPS time
- -20% RES to every elements
- Millth set +20% ATK to everyone
- Resonance: Lower RES, +DMG

C0 Raiden:
- ER for EVERYONE
- Resonance: Minor ER

C6 Raiden:
- ER for EVERYONE
- +40% DMG to self
- +30% ATK to everyone
- -5s Burst CD for everyone
- Resonance: Minor ER

--

Raiden VS Fischl in Eula Team:
- Fischl can provide better damage if your enemies are packed together and doesn't move much. Else, you need to keep switch back to Fischl and reposition her oz while making sure Eula's burst landing at the correct time and placement.
- Raiden is a lot more comfortable to play with if enemies are scattered everywhere(Archers, Potioner) or have high mobility(Geovishap, Nobushi, Specters). Eula+Fischl is a nuisance to play with when facing these types of enemies.
- You don't need to spend much resources on Fischl. But you have to build Raiden very high up because she needs to be on the field for 9s.
- You will still need Diona even if you have Raiden in the team. Raiden alone won't be able to recharge Eula fast enough.