QUOTE(h4r8_kIlLeR @ Nov 7 2020, 09:29 PM)
So be it then. Not me who give them blue i/c, so don't blame meBumiputera development/agenda is a scam
Bumiputera development/agenda is a scam
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Nov 7 2020, 09:38 PM
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#21
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275 posts Joined: Aug 2011 |
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Nov 7 2020, 09:40 PM
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#22
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Nov 7 2020, 09:58 PM
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#23
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QUOTE(mac60931 @ Nov 7 2020, 09:45 PM) Why are you dodging my question? DID YOU SELF REPORT my post instead deleting it? Eh, sorry I didn't bother to read your repost since its spamming same picture. Anyways, not me who report la, why do i need to report when its so much more fun to bitchslap m laugh at you? Somemore i can just delete.your post if i want to, report for for wat? » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « Haiyaaa so simple logic liddat oso tak reti, what kind of lousy cheap macai whore are you? Somemore ada hati wanna say got staff under you? Malu sikit la weihhh |
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Nov 8 2020, 02:36 AM
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#24
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QUOTE(mac60931 @ Nov 7 2020, 10:15 PM) Why? This pic triggered you? U never heard of "anjing menyalak bukit"? Pretty accurate to sums up this thread. Because I oledi replied you before, but what to do, you keep butthurting and posting the same pic over and over ![]() QUOTE(bigwolf @ Nov 7 2020, 03:21 PM) See, this is why lousy cheap macai whores like you are so easy to n fun to play with. Just find the right buttons and keep pressing them, and you'll see them go apeshit |
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Nov 8 2020, 02:40 AM
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#25
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QUOTE(Neeson @ Nov 8 2020, 01:59 AM) so slow lah you baby gay wolf. actually JASA already back operate in July 2020 ahhh ok same species with that mac60931 then QUOTE(bigwolf @ Nov 7 2020, 03:01 PM) |
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Nov 8 2020, 11:47 AM
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#26
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Nov 8 2020, 11:55 AM
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#27
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QUOTE(seriosekitt3h @ Nov 8 2020, 09:22 AM) You are confusing between Bumiputera and Malays. I am from Sarawak. You're not getting it, try reading the opening post again. Or is it you did not read, just see the title and straight comment?We have more Bumiputera Christians here than Muslim Malays. Most of them are being help to progress with these policy you are trying to abolished. Have you been to the rural areas and see how rural people lives. How many are they are non Bumi? Race based policies is better than targeted social policies because we live according to our races, We self segregated ourselves, as a mini society within a much broader hierarchy. We rarely conduct business, marriage, social gatherings etc outside our own kind. Wealth distributes within races whether you agree or not. When a poor person marries a rich person, the poor family status is positively affected. When someone wanna organize a social event like weddings or birthdays, they uses their own kind for services like caterings, event planners and such. This distributes wealth within the society which is commonly under the same race. If you say we should only help the poor regardless of the race. It is like giving fish to a cat. Instead teaching the cat to fish works better because cats will teach other cats. Have you ever been in school where you sometimes need to copy your homework or assignments because you somehow forgot or lazy to do? Tell me who will help you? Your own kind or the opposite? That is how our society works. Bumi policy does not cover everything except certain economics, education and housing policies. I don't believe equality but i believe in fairness. If you preach equality, then every person should be given for example RM100 each regardless of their wealth. If you believe in fairness, then the lesser should get more. Until there is balance in wealth distribution between races, these policies will be needed. I do believe one day, we will not need this policies anymore. Unbalanced wealth distribution is the reason for race and religious divide in Malaysia I do believe in fairness and the lesser should get more, did you even read the opening post? How is it fair when the present bumi policies are abused to benefit the rich and connected malays and not the poor malays? Under needs based policy as per the example that I listed, all the poor (5 malays, 3 indians, 2 chinese) gets help. How is that not balance in wealth distribution between races? Or is it only fair to you when the 10 resources all goes to the 5 malays, the others can go dai? And this: QUOTE If you say we should only help the poor regardless of the race. It is like giving fish to a cat. How does helping the poor irregardless of race equates to giving fish to cat? Are you saying helping 1 race irregardless whether they poor or not is correct and does not equate not giving fish to cat?Instead teaching the cat to fish works better because cats will teach other cats. This post has been edited by bigwolf: Nov 8 2020, 12:02 PM |
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Nov 8 2020, 12:08 PM
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#28
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QUOTE(seriosekitt3h @ Nov 8 2020, 12:01 PM) My reply still relevant to your first sentence core argument. Read again and try to understand. You don't think under needs based policies the bumi christians would get more help that what they're getting presently? QUOTE(bigwolf @ Nov 7 2020, 02:54 PM) QUOTE(drug5 @ Nov 7 2020, 02:49 PM) yeah, see sabah/sarawak. And see sabahan/sarawakian politicians and their cronies |
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Nov 8 2020, 12:22 PM
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#29
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QUOTE(Current Events guy @ Nov 8 2020, 07:32 AM) Bumi get monetary assistance, sometimes directly like zakat or bantuan other times indirectly like job opportunity You don't think the poor bumi will get more in needs based policy (10 resources goes to all 5 bumi, 3 indians, 2 chinese poors)? And the present policy is still better (10 resources, 9 goes to the rich & connected while only 1 goes to 5 bumi poors and the others can go dai)? |
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Nov 8 2020, 12:48 PM
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#30
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QUOTE(seriosekitt3h @ Nov 8 2020, 12:40 PM) you used MALAY 3 times instead of using BUMIPUTERA in you counter argument. aiyohhh I already said its a simple illustration didn't I? The BUMI polices is not exclusive for the Malays only. Answering your question above, Who do you think the non Muslim Bumi (they are not all Christians or Catholics, some are pagan and atheist) voted for in Sarawak for the last 50-60 years? DAP? Who is vocal about bumi policies? Sarawak is the stronghold of BN and they are quite unique in social demographics but they often stand united with the Federal government. Sarawak is a fixed deposit for BN because they know their constitutional right is protected. I have been to this one longhouse in deep Sarawak. The leader is pagan/atheist and also a political party leader of this one major ethnic. This specific longhouse of 50 families have 22 degree holders, 3-5 post graduate holders. In fact the nearest town sees more development in a decade than the one city being held by opposition nearby. The small town have Rural UTC, government buildings that helps famers/entrepreneurs in between the town and longhouse. Even the new highway passes through that town. I have been living in that city for quite a bit and Opposition did nothing much in helping the poor economically there when I was there. My point, if if was not for the Bumi policies on education, loans and housing, i doubt that the people in that longhouse will have anything higher than a SPM certificate and they will be farmers and laborer for the rest of their lives. I have many real life personal examples to share that involves non Malay Bumi You mean I have to be specific like this: » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « then only you understand ka? |
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Nov 8 2020, 12:55 PM
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#31
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QUOTE(Current Events guy @ Nov 8 2020, 12:50 PM) If you word it like that then the first sound better. Which is why I said thisAlso if help poor, they need a lot of handholding on what opportunities to do. That handholding come in the form of an extra body to guide them along. This reminds me of the case where they try to help poor bumi fisherman by giving them new boat as a form of assistance. When the welfare agency came to check on them, they found out that the fisherman wanted quick money so he sold off his boat and is now poor after the money is gone LMAO. In this case, go invest in rich malays. Hopefully they use the benefit to start companies that hire the poor. This is a strategy as well. Rich bumi use policy to generate economic opportunity too. From that, jobs are created. How they spend that money is up to them, that's the spoils of their endeavors. Rich boss get money, bring family enjoice overseas. At the same time, his kuli in bumi companies spend locally. Also pasar buy vege dont have written pricing. Usually only meat/chicken/fish written 1 kg/plate/portion how much. QUOTE Ofc, this is an overly simplistic view and needs based agendas can still be open to abuse, but it definitely is better than the existing malay agenda however you look at it. So if the fisherman sells off his new boat for quick money under the current bumi agenda, how would that makes needs based agenda not better for others beside that fisherman? This post has been edited by bigwolf: Nov 8 2020, 12:55 PM |
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Nov 8 2020, 01:34 PM
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#32
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QUOTE(seriosekitt3h @ Nov 8 2020, 01:15 PM) There is a difference. Thank you for correcting it. I already answered it initially. No need to write so long winded. The question is simple, is it only fair for you then when the 10 resources all goes to the 5 What you are suggesting is we should be equal in distribution according to demographic and the rich Bumi is exploiting the allocation of these poor Bumi? A shorter answer: A rich <insert race> will give back to it's own less fortunate kind because we are a self segregated society bounded by race and religion. Example: Middle Income Ahmad got good education because he got tongkat to University making him smart. Middle Income Ahmad got tongkat in loans making him able to start his own business. Middle Income Ahmad also got tongkat in housing making him saving his money more. Middle Income Ahmad got rich in the span of 10 years, now people call him Rich Ahmad. Now, Rich Ahmad need to hire workers for his new project he got from tongkat. Rich Ahmad hires Middle Income Abu and Middle Income Hassan to help with the project. Middle Income Abu and Middle Income Hassan hires Poor Ali, Poor Sufian, Poor Hafiz and Poor Mohd to work for them. In 10 years time, All the Middle Income becomes Rich and all the Poor becomes Middle Income. Rich Ahmad is getting richer, don't forget that. We call him Mega Rich Ahmad now So, Mega Rich Ahmad now opens up another tongkat business producing lots of newly Rich guys and Middle Income guys Now Rich Abu and Rich Hassan tongkat summore. Now The son of Mega Rich Ahmad wanna marry a Poor Syed daughter, his dad approves and financed a grand wedding Mega Rich Ahmad hires Moderate Income Hussein as caterer, Middle Income Halimah as Mak Andam, Rich Azman as Event Planner. Now all the people working for Mega Rich Ahmad's son wedding hires a lot of Poor individuals for work. And, Family of Poor Syed also benefited from marrying the Mega Rich Ahmad by getting some work or small projects Poor Syed's family boosted their statues to now as Middle Income Syed. So in short, wealth trickles down to it's own society in a long run, this is why race based tongkat policy works. It is a way to get of from the poverty cycle. If Middle Income Ahmad does not have a university entry approved, his bank loans rejected, his housing quotas rejected Abu, Hassan. Ali, Sufian, Hafiz, Hussein, Halimah, Azman and Syed would be stagnant economically. |
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Nov 8 2020, 02:15 PM
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#33
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QUOTE(seriosekitt3h @ Nov 8 2020, 01:46 PM) Yes it is fair. I've already said with needs based policy all resources goes to the poor. So if east malaysian bumis makes the larger segment, naturally they'll get the bigger share. But no, that is not enough for you, you want to deprive the other poor malaysians even if east malaysian bumis gets double their portion all in the name of racial "fairness" and "racial/religious unity"Who said about other poor people needed to die? We have Jabatan Kebajikan Masyarakat, Baitulmal (non muslim can apply) and many more govt and NGO bodies to help them. You are propagating here that the Poor Non Bumi should not be helped? It is a false accusation. And why I think this is fair? This graph from this study explains why Population shares of ethnic groups in each percentile, 2002 (pre-tax national income) ![]() Until we make the line between red and blue horizontally flat (red group have more rich than poor compared to blue group and vice versa), we will not achieve racial/religious unity that is 100% essential to our economy. You are just a racial discriminating racist just like the west malaysian malays which you rail against, only difference here is change the word from bumi agenda to east malaysian bumi agenda |
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Nov 8 2020, 02:30 PM
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#34
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QUOTE(seriosekitt3h @ Nov 8 2020, 02:03 PM) Seriously, this is so hypocritical. On 1 hand you say be tolerant. On the other hand, you're advocating racial discrimination» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « |
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Nov 8 2020, 03:18 PM
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#35
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QUOTE(scorptim @ Nov 8 2020, 03:11 PM) No it’s one question why after over 50 years of NEP and tens or even hundreds of billions allocated still so many poor bumis. Don’t go changing my question to fit your narrative. Precisely. Really facepalm at some ppl can blame the earth and sky until british colonialism for bumi development/agenda (which was created post 1969 and nothing to do with the brits) being a scamYou wanna blame colonialism, then what about Singapore? Why they manage to grow to where there are now? |
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Nov 8 2020, 03:24 PM
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#36
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QUOTE(1designs @ Nov 8 2020, 02:13 PM) I think what TS is trying to say here is that, the tongkat policy is heavily flawed and corrupted. Common sense will tell you, after so many years, you see little to no effect, something is wrong with the policy. yup, precisely. But at least we can take heart most get it here with the exception of a few shitstirrers who likes to eat cheap dogfood and 1 east malaysian racial discriminating bigot who thinks it is fair to deprive the other poor malaysians even if east malaysian bumis gets more than their portion all in the name of racial "fairness" and "racial/religious unity"Also, I applaud the politicians to have played the race and religion card so well, it blinds the typical Malaysians from seeing the actual truth. They think as long as it helps the "malay", then it's all good. |
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Nov 8 2020, 04:12 PM
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#37
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QUOTE(seriosekitt3h @ Nov 8 2020, 03:50 PM) it is good that the T20 is growing, the wealth can trickle down to the lower halves in term of more employment, business opportunity and such Dude, you are just arguing all over the place replying for the sake of argument. What you post above is totally opposite of what you post below, arguing against T20 and advocating forced socialism:What you are suggesting is socialism where everyone should be equal in wealth QUOTE(seriosekitt3h @ Nov 8 2020, 01:46 PM) Yes it is fair. Do you even know what you talking about or not? Who said about other poor people needed to die? We have Jabatan Kebajikan Masyarakat, Baitulmal (non muslim can apply) and many more govt and NGO bodies to help them. You are propagating here that the Poor Non Bumi should not be helped? It is a false accusation. And why I think this is fair? This graph from this study explains why Population shares of ethnic groups in each percentile, 2002 (pre-tax national income) ![]() Until we make the line between red and blue horizontally flat (red group have more rich than poor compared to blue group and vice versa), we will not achieve racial/religious unity that is 100% essential to our economy. This post has been edited by bigwolf: Nov 8 2020, 04:15 PM |
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Nov 8 2020, 04:19 PM
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#38
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QUOTE(seriosekitt3h @ Nov 8 2020, 03:48 PM) Firstly And what does this got to do with bumi agenda being a scam and only benefits the rich and connected bumi instead of a needs based agenda where all poor and needy would benefit?Generational poverty is prevalent amongst the people in the rural because of lack to access of education, lack of job opportunities and basic need like electricity, water and roads. This is why Bumi which resides in these locations often find it difficult to compete in economic growth compared to the people in the urban areas, which surprise, surprise, is non Bumi. Thus billions is needed to improve the infrastructures that is needed to help their economy and giving them fair chance to compete with others. Thus lots of training centers, entrepreneur training, industrial training, schemes and loans are given to them in order to push them to the right direction. People in the urban areas often have access to internet, tuition centers, training centers, high paying jobs and state of the art transportation compare to people living in coastal or inlands rural places. So you get my point or do I need to elaborate more? Secondly Singapore is the crown colony of British colony same to Labuan, Malacca, Sarawak and Penang but not Malaya. Meaning Singapore is under direct rule of the Crown. But Singapore is the jewel colony for the British because of it's location and trade route. There is nothing to plunder because it have no natural resources but it links all the islands in the region to a central location of it's port This is part of the reason why Penang, Malacca and Labuan declined in being the port of the region. It was pretty successful way before the world wars. Even when the Japanese invaded that region, Singapore is the pinnacle of their invasion objective. British fought hard to protect Singapore but not Kuala Lumpur or Labuan. Another reason is Singapore is pretty much one race nation where it is politically stabile thus economic growth is the by product of that Then, it have only one language to unite all. Lastly Singapore have developed all it's landscape and no further development like building roads or bridges or tunnels needed to connect one town to another These three last reasons is why Malaysia is far left behind in economic growth but now only can match Singapore in infrastructure growth. |
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Nov 8 2020, 04:27 PM
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#39
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QUOTE(seriosekitt3h @ Nov 8 2020, 04:19 PM) It is relevant to the arguments. I explained it in my Middle Income Ahmad example a few pages back. Yet again you do not understand or wish not to understand. The opening post already summed it up pretty clearly. Yes. In short summary, Affirmative action in Malaysia is needed to balance out wealth gap between races in order to maintain racial unity which is crucial to the nation's economic progress. Affirmative action as it is currently only benefits the rich and connected bumis. With needs based policy, poor bumis will naturally gets a bigger share of the affirmative pie by nature they are the largest segment of B40. How is that not balancing the wealth gap? |
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Nov 8 2020, 08:08 PM
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#40
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» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « Lol I read this 3 times and still no idea what you talking about. How does tongkat policy based on race or needs will make poor ikau meet akun or not? What does tongkat policy based on race or needs got to do with jibeh and gonolon? And how does tongkat policy based on needs will mean hashim wont to meet ahmad's daughter but only through tongkat policy based on race can? You are basing all your argument through only one focus - your own 1 way street. Needs based tongkat ---> money ---> start business ---> bad. Race based tongkat ---> everything good (no idea how or why it is so but it is definitely good lah) As if no other possibilities or perspectives are possible. That is simply strawman argument. Sorry to say this but even your strawman argument is making absolutely zero sense. Try again to prove me wrong or change my mind that needs based agenda is the better way |
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