I'm looking for a camera fast enough to take a moving horse but also small enough to carry around and I must add, on a tight budget. my Coolpix2100 can take as far as still horses and then some moving ones but not good. Also my coolpix is frustratingly slow without flash. Taking a pic of my dog is a pain. I'm a beginner so I'm having doubts about getting a SLR camera. Nothing too bulky for me. Any advice there? Thanks.

This post has been edited by Xannava: Aug 4 2007, 03:59 PM

try a prosumer cam? i think you can adjust shutter speed...correct me if i am wrong...but you wan good pics and light cam...so that should be it..

wat is ur budget at first place?

shoot high moving object..u seriously need a dslr..

a high end digicam that cost rm 1.5 k will do the job, but i rather top up more to get dslr for a perfect picture.

so far there are few digicam

sony t100 with double anti blur with bionz chip which cost rm 1.5k++

canon TI 1.6 k

this 2 can take decent fast moving object pictures..

others cam no good....

so i still advice u to get a dslr.

forget about nikon coolpix....slow shutter speed...even without flash.

go for canon ...

How bout canon S315 or S515?

it's best that u mention your budget first.

About Rm 1k below. orenzai got it right. Light camera and good pics. and fast speed. Whats a prosumer cam by the way?

Something that I can slip in my pocket or rather more of being able to carry it around in general. If I can do that with a SLR i've got no qualms about it.

If its gonna be a SLR I've got no idea how much that would cost. If its gonna be an SLR I'm eying the Canon PowerShot Pro Series S3 or the Nikon D40. Any idea how much they are and what do you think of those camera? And what others do you recommend?

Better becareful with the Sony T100 there, SLOW & horrible pictures without flash. And you can get much better ones with that price tag.

Its either Fuji F31fd or dSLR. Choose one

fuji f31fd, very responsive and very fast, shutter and apperture priority modes, pocketable, IQ of high iso comparable to DSLR, only RM800.

Is the no flash any good? Since its animals that I'm taking most of the time, the no-flash-good-quality image is a must.

yes, fuji is the king of lowlight no flash shots on baby/animal etc...

whats the difference between the 31 and 50?

that cam was said to be the best P&S cam ever...but since you are girl...carrying a dslr not so nice lar...BUT d40 is quite small actually...although not small enough to put in your pocket(no dslr do) but its said to be light...so its either the fuji or d40...your choice...

Forget the 50 whats the diff between the 31 and 40? Thanks.

i ask u to go for dslr. u wont regret it.

what 31 and 40?you mean fuji f31d and nikon d40?

how much is the d40?

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Added on August 4, 2007, 5:08 pmsorry... hehe... the fuji 31 and fuji 40. getting hard to remember all this names...

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Added on August 4, 2007, 5:08 pmon comparison between the fuji and the d40, how big is the difference?

This post has been edited by Xannava: Aug 4 2007, 07:30 PM

regret what? i for one will not use dslr even given to me free ( if given free to me i will sell it for money) carrying a dslr is a burden. pocketable is a must.

thats coz your love for photography not strong enough mar...hehe...i wont mind carrying one if it produces good results...

on comparison between the fuji and the d40, how big is the difference?

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Added on August 4, 2007, 5:29 pmAnd hows the Ixus line?

This post has been edited by Xannava: Aug 4 2007, 07:30 PM

Well, compacts are more convenient. But dslr gives more performance.

There's no other camera better than Fuji F31fd except dSLR. That's why I
ask you to choose F31fd or dSLR

Fuji F50, F40 seems to be lower performance in low light compare to
F31fd. But F50 and F40 will definitely win anything in the market in
terms of low light. Canon, Sony, Nikon etc cannot be used without
flash in low light condition.

Ok. Which is slimmer, the f31 or the f40?

And by the way, thanks a lot to all you guys for your help.

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Added on August 4, 2007, 6:51 pmAnd oh yeah, the f31, without flash is it still fast? Thanks.

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Added on August 4, 2007, 6:59 pmI've read that the f40 has the anti-blur thingy... is that of any help?

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Added on August 4, 2007, 7:43 pmCanon PowerShot S3 IS or Nikon D40? Which is more value for money and which is better at what I want to do with it?

This post has been edited by Xannava: Aug 4 2007, 07:43 PM

powershot is smaller...d40 is better... S3IS is a prosumer cam...whereas d40 is a dslr..

I read somewhere in this forum that the f31 cant be found in shops....

Spend some time in review sites, you will get a more accurate and non-bias info.

Dpreview

This post has been edited by kelvinyam: Aug 4 2007, 09:13 PM

orenzai, how would the S3 IS fare in taking fast moving pictures. d40 is about 2k.. kinda expensive for a newbie like me....

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Added on August 4, 2007, 9:25 pmwell kelvin, i spent the entire day in front of the pc stopping only for dinner. Well, I was thinking about a SLR then came in the price factor and the bulky factor and the I-dont-think-I-know-how-to-use-this factor. Then I thought maybe the Fujif31fd, then came the no stockness and the not so nice shape. I'm now looking at the Powershot S3 IS, but I'm not sure if it would be worth the price....

By the way, what would you recommend for me taking fast moving pics? Thnaks.

This post has been edited by Xannava: Aug 4 2007, 09:25 PM

are you implying its me?

wow you got things to think about here.... i haven used a S3IS but i heard many said it performed well...see what other S3IS owners think of the cam...

This post has been edited by orenzai: Aug 4 2007, 09:49 PM

Ok, lets say I'm looking for a P&S (did i get that right) for fast pics. Lets leave out the fuji and the SLRs. What should I get?

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Added on August 4, 2007, 9:55 pmOh yeah, fast pics without flash but outdoors or in proper lighting cause yes i've heard, the f31 is the best with low light.... oh gosh, I never knew finding the perfect cam would be this hard!

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Added on August 4, 2007, 10:12 pmAh and possibly Rm1k and below, any model you would recommend? Thanks


This post has been edited by Xannava: Aug 4 2007, 10:12 PM

wa...you budget tight ler...your condition is fast shutter speed...thats why hard to find...

hmm.... yeah.... thats the problem... say fast and all i get back (at least most of the time is SLR.

Ok, lets put it no budget for P&S.

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Added on August 4, 2007, 10:32 pmBy the way, what is shutter speed?

This post has been edited by Xannava: Aug 4 2007, 10:32 PM

the f31d is a point & shoot, the nikon d40 is a beginners SLR...

for ur case i would suggest that u go for the f31d since u r not into lugging heavy gear all around...eventhough the D40 is considered very small for an SLR...but D40 has limited functionality for an SLR

You can learn about it here

http://digital-photography-school.com/blog/shutter-speed/

try google next time.

in terms of what?

This post has been edited by orenzai: Aug 5 2007, 12:19 AM

Different models has it's own features Eg. D80, D200, or D2Xs.

I can only offer generic advice:

Try to get a model that you can change the aperture, aka. "Aperture Priority" or "Av" mode. Reason being, if you can make the aperture smaller, you are able to photograph a larger swath of space clearly even though your auto-focus may be late or inaccurate when locking onto the subject (fast moving horse). This is helped along by the fact that the depth-of-field (the swath of space around the subject that's focused that looks sharp) for compact digicams are very large compared to DSLRs. Trade-off is slower shutter speed that may lead to motion blur, unless you can have a cam that has usable ISO up till ISO 400 and that's only good till late afternoon or cloudy day shots. Another tradeoff is that the background may remain sharp and can be distracting to the subject (poor or no 'bokeh').

DSLRs generally have moderate to very fast auto-focus locks, but nearly all compact cams and even prosumers have slow to moderate AF locks. Talking about auto-focus, that model you'd want also must have the option for you to choose only one point of focus (eg. the centre) when you want to. Reason being, most compacts have multi-point autofocus that tries to be too smart and may lock onto something on the background rather than on your subject. If you can manual focus with the camera, even better, as one technique you can use (if your autofocus is hopeless for action shots) is to prefocus at a place where the horses or whatever moving subject will predictably cross and then snap away without wasting time waiting for an autofocus that may not even be able to lock onto the moving subject.

If you're thinking of getting a prosumer with long zooms, that model had better have Image Stabilisation, Anti-Shake, Steady Shot, Vibration Reduction or whatever mechanical means to compensate for hand shake. But such mechanisms, while effective against hand shake, cannot prevent motion blur, that is, the blur from a fast moving subject. Most likely too, you'll need a long zoom, as I can imagine that the usual 3x or 4x compact camera will be unable to take anything more than a general scenic shot of a horse race (can't frame the horses tightly) from the grandstand.

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Added on August 5, 2007, 2:13 amWhat would be the minimum features needed to satisfactorily photograph a horse race?

This post has been edited by cjtune: Aug 5 2007, 02:16 AM

Hey, Olympus E410 is almost pocketable..lol

This post has been edited by Gadget_Freak: Aug 5 2007, 02:48 AM

Try Nikon D40. It is compact but powerful.

ya i know...but just now you said d40 ada limited functions mar...

Hi, it's a tough choice, but if your budget limits you at a max of RM1000 (as stated in your previous post), it's not that tough.

1. First of all, you can rule out all DSLR and SuperZoom (includes S3), then you are left only a few:
a) Fuji F30 series
b) Canon A series (some of it only)
c) Nikon (maybe, Nikon is good with their DSLR, not sure about compact)


2. Then you go to Dpreview and check out the price, only consider anything less than USD250.

3. Only consider the model allows you to adjust the shutter speed since you mentioned about capturing fast moving object.

4. Then you shot listed it base on performance.

5. Pick a few models (three or less) that you can't decide base on the review.

6. Then only post it up in this forum for some user experience comment.

This post has been edited by kelvinyam: Aug 5 2007, 10:34 AM

if really wanna take good pic of fast moving subjects, you need high end dslr like those sports photographer.

its easy to just take video, buy a HD vid recorder and record the whole thing, then just pick a frame you like.

lidat the image quality wont be that good lor...

Agree with kelvin, since pocketability is one of the main concern, SLR/Prosumer is definitely should not in the list.
A camera is a garbage no matter how good it is if u leave it at home all the time.

Don't get and SLR/prosumer unless you've really tried it out taking it out with you, borrow 1 from your friend perhaps...

Btw, i found that capturing fast moving object is best by using view finder, fuji's compact is good but come without view finder.

This post has been edited by mars2005: Aug 5 2007, 03:38 PM

I never said so wor.

OMG...sorry it was enhaw82 who said that...but you helped him answer...so i tot it was you sorry sorry

Ok, I've been to a few shops today, and this is what I've got:

Canon PowerShot A570
Ixus 75
LUMIX DMC-FX3


Which is better? Thanks guys.

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Added on August 5, 2007, 5:24 pmI went to two shops and both said the A570. One said Ixus (but they dint stock the A series) and one more said Lumix (because it has stabilisation).

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Added on August 5, 2007, 5:26 pmOh yeah, and the lass at Jusco said the FinePix Z5fd has faster image capture therefore recommending it.

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Added on August 5, 2007, 5:27 pmAh, yes and about the pocket thingy, its ok if its about the size of the A570 because although girl's pockets are smaller then the guys, they have handbags ;P As long as its not too heavy.

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Added on August 5, 2007, 5:29 pmOh and greyPJ, i dont really need a SLR because I'm currently using a Coolpix2100 and its ancient, so I think an up to date cam would the the job?

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Added on August 5, 2007, 5:36 pmHow are Casio cams by the way?

This post has been edited by Xannava: Aug 5 2007, 05:36 PM

Went down to the Singapore Turf Club today to try out my own advice.

Found out that controlling shutter speed is more crucial when you want to take shots of the horses running past you. You'll need AT LEAST 1/1000 sec shutter speed to get acceptably sharp pics like the one I took below:

(full scene, resized smaller)



(unresized crop from the original picture)



I tried using Aperture-priority at first but when it because cloudy, my shutter speed dropped to 1/500, 1/800 levels and I got motion-blurred pictures. Have to boost ISO to 400 to get 1/1000 sometimes, and this means living with a limited depth-of-field from f/5.6, f/6.3 apertures.

I was using a 200mm lens (Olympus crop factor is x2, so I get 400mm equivalent) and was about 50-60m away from the passing horses. Compact P&S camera users will better understand this as "11.4x zoom".

So get a camera that can manage to give you at least 1/1000 sec of shutter speed!
You can get away with slower speeds if you take pictures of the incoming horses at an angle head-on, or riding away.

I also did a burst of shots as the horses passed by (for the finish line) so that there's a chance that some of the shots might be of a usable composition. You have NO time to properly individually compose your shot.

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Added on August 5, 2007, 10:10 pmCandid shots can also benefit from long zooms.



There is usually a barrier (and the crowds of people packed in front of you!) that keep you from coming close enough to the horses, like the picture above of the horse and jockey parade before they go off for a race.

This post has been edited by cjtune: Aug 5 2007, 10:26 PM

well explained there ctjune :respect:should create a new thread and let others see what they need for sports and horses...haha... and yes...our predictions were not wrong... 1/1000 shutter speed...i dont think any P&S cam will do that...

only dslr can do the above

Maybe, maybe not...

But I did use a DSLR to take those photos.

Main problem would seem to be the long zoom needed.
The spectators are kept a far distance away from the running horses. Closest I could get is 20m in the Turf Club but I didn't have elevation to avoid the bushes so I opted to stand further away (50-60m) where there is elevation to avoid the bushes. With a regular "x3" or "x4" zoom P&S, you'd end up with this sort of view:


If you're shooting from where there are people standing and sitting on the metal fence downstairs, then imagine an extra "x2" magnification added. They have to sit or stand on the fence as the bushes block their view. That area, and that of the green benches wasn't suitable for me to shoot from, otherwise I could get better closeups.

Even the Powershot A570 can manage up to 1/2000 sec shutter speeds.
Other things needed are manual overrides, like the ability to set a manual focus.

i think the LEAST way she could do it is to get a prosumer...so that you can fit a 200mm...

interesting. I think need dSLR coz dSLR lens is clearer. some P&S like my ancient Minolta S304 can do 1/1000s speed

I would think S3IS is a better bet with longer zoom. But its not pocketable

S3IS or S5IS is small...just not THAT small...but its small...comapred to dslr

Thanks guys, especially cjtune. I would love to get a SLR's but they are kinda over the budget (rm 1k). So far I'm quite interested in the Canon A570, had tested it out at the shop. As for the zoom problem, it wont be a problem FOR NOW because I would be sticking to taking pictures from the ground and near the arena where they Jump or do dressage because I dont really go to those competitions with those big stands and I'm looking more to personal use than professional photography right now (just my itching hands cant stay of the camera). Maybe when I've got the money I'll post a topic about help for slr cameras... So what do you guys think about the A570? Or should I look at a different camera? Thanks again.

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Added on August 6, 2007, 3:19 pmOh and nice pics by the way

This post has been edited by Xannava: Aug 6 2007, 03:19 PM

here...a thread bout a570...

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/499642

Yeah, I started it

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Added on August 6, 2007, 6:19 pmShould i go for the A570 or the Ixus 75?

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Added on August 6, 2007, 6:29 pmor the ixus 800/850 IS?

This post has been edited by Xannava: Aug 6 2007, 06:29 PM

haha..i didnt see who started it...

This post has been edited by orenzai: Aug 6 2007, 06:30 PM

Hey someone said something about a prosumer camera.... how much exactly is the S3 IS?

i dont think its selling anymore...but i know s5IS is selling at 1.5k

ooo... wayyy out of budget. Sobs... looks like it will be the A570 IS then... unless anyone has a under Rm1k improvement to that...

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Added on August 6, 2007, 9:20 pmThere's one shop selling it for Rm899 (880 if cash) with tripod+case+lens cleaner (watz that?)+screen protector+ neck string (what you call that again?). Do you think it is a good bargain?

This post has been edited by Xannava: Aug 6 2007, 09:20 PM

neck strap that is...you try finding for 2nd hand one lo see got or not...

Looks like a great cam with good features.

i found this...dunno if you wanna buy..


http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/496764

Looks like a good deal. Still quite new mah. Less than a year. Should be fine. Make sure never drop before only buy.

check got any dead pixels on LCD or not.

Got battery problem or not. (batter drains fast)

haha...calvin_gsc is a really experienced online buyer/seller..i go garage sale see him in most of the thread

Lolz, one thing is that my mom is very against second hand item (its about the what ifs). If not then yeah, it is a very good deal....

yes...same as my mum..always say people sell sure because got smth wrong..lolz...

Oh well, guess all mums have the responsibility to be responsible

yeah...but sometimes they too narrow minded lar...they think too much...see the garage sale section... everyday got 4 pages of bump ar...which means its very popular to do online business...

Lolz. It took me quite a while to convince mom to let me buy my cinema ticket online and miss all the queue. Oh well....


So do you think the Rm 880 is worth it for an A570?

well...its all up to you... go try out the cam..see if the pictures taken is up to the standard you wan...

Ok, I've finally decided to get the A570 IS. Where do you think is the best place to get good prices?

Bo Eing Sg Wang, lowest price offered. Guaranteed.

Can even pay by credit card without extra charge.

Hmmm... maybe I shall pay a visit to Sg. Wang this weekend, wasnt so keen cause kinda far from home...

Well, if stay far, maybe you should get it from somewhere closer.

Need to take into account petrol, and if next time wanna send back for warranty also gonna be troublesome.

Consider PowerShot A640, it's just slightly more expensive. The reason is it has articulated screen, it's more convenient. And it has larger sensor size, 1/1.8" vs 1/2.5". So you get less noise at high ISO. High ISO because you need to shoot horse, and to increase the shutter speed, you need to open up the aperture and increase the ISO. You don't really need IS because the max zoom is only 4x and since you are shooting fast moving object, you don't use slow shutter speed.

You can try:
1. Selangor Fotografi @ Pertama Complex
2. Boeing Electronic @ Sg Wang
3. Photo Data @ Mid Valley

If it's really exceed your budget, get PowerShot A630 then. Similar features, just 8 mega pixels compares to 10 mega pixels. It's the same price with A570IS. Less mega pixels might be better still, since it doesn't put too many pixel within a small sensor, the noise will be lesser. Just like the S3 and S5 case.

A640 Review

This post has been edited by kelvinyam: Aug 14 2007, 09:10 PM

I will also be taking lots of pics of my dogs in doors.. is that ok?

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Added on August 14, 2007, 9:34 pmHmm..someone said that the S3 can be bought for Rm1200 at the S3 thread..The A640 is about Rm1399 according to the canon site...A620 is about Rm1099.. hmm maybe I'll check that one out.

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Added on August 14, 2007, 9:43 pmCould you tell me the difference between the a630 and the a570 beside what you have said.. like from the movie quality down to the flashless lowlight pic quality... thanks.

This post has been edited by Xannava: Aug 14 2007, 09:43 PM

A570 is a new cam, so can't check it out in more detail via review. You can check out the A640 review though, you can use that as a reference for A630, the features shall be same.

Ok. Thanks.

ok here u got xanava..

i just saw the 570 Is price...rm 989

i ask the canon salesman...among all canon other than the black powershot canon,

which cam including Ti series have ,manual shutter,aperture..or whatsoever manual setting that i can play

the answer only 1 model,which is 570IS...it's new model..

so other forummer here,canon ti rm 1.6 k got many manual function?like i can manual set the shutter and aperture?

if not..the 570 IS really a good cam for amatuer coz so many manual setting to play with.

Lolz. Thanks for your help. The best I got for the a570 is Rm 899.

Ps. Is there anyway of getting an s3 or s5 under Rm1.2 k? Becuase I dont mind adding a few hundred but above that is way off budget.

there's someone selling S3 RM1k at the trade zone ..
but open box condition..

ya... like acee jay said...i saw it too...

ok...how bout from shop one? any shop selling? Most shop i go all no more stock or if got is Rm1699

not many shop got sell 2nd hand goods...

No not second hand, I want not opened box. I've got an offer from an online seller for Rm1199 add Rm50 for tripod and case. But got deposit 50% first, you know la moms. But aso warranty and stuff want to meet up again if got problem susah la want to set date all that.

You can skip the tripod and case and save RM50 if it's one of those tiny tripods. Better to get a sturdy full-sized one. But of course, girls may not like carrying bulky stuff and frankly with IS, I usually don't carry tripods around anymore.

I will never pay deposits to anybody unless it is a respected and trusted person/dealer.
Most scammers make their money by running off with people's deposits.

huhu..yeah ..kinnda hard to find a new set of camera at any shop.. the price for S5 going back to normal again RM1699 .. S3 should be around 1.2k-1.3k price ..and now its limited for that kind of camera..

get a S3 lar...since features almost the same..

S3 is hackable too as it's using DIGIC2. but the screen and EVF qualities make me think twice...

I don't care about the LCD and EVF resolution. As long as the output is good, it's a good camera.

just abit diffrent between S5
>8mpx
>2.5 lcd screen
>hotshoe for addtional flash

others almost the same..

but with crappy LCD and EVF, hard to evalute exposure, etc in bright condition. have to depend on luck and skill (which newbie like me lack off)

btw, S3is still can be seen at shop that is "less" popular. can even nego with them kaw kaw saying that S5is already out and S3is nobody wan liau lol

For this trick to work, you must first feign some fake, intense, interest in the S5 IS first... then near the end of the nego, "Ok lah, I will take the older S3 IS to help you clear your stock."

@cjtune
pretty evil... better if the shop have both S3 and S5. can compare both.

now searching high and low for cheap new S3is lol