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 boost being a dick, no more cash out, all $$ stuck

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TSdarth5zaft
post May 18 2020, 06:07 AM, updated 6y ago

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Tiada Lagi Pengeluaran Wang Dari Boost Ke Akaun Bank Bermula Esok, 18 Mei 2020
Diterbitkan pada Mei 17, 2020 oleh Aman.
Boost merupakan salah satu perkhidmatan dompet digital yang popular, yang turut mempopularkan penggunaan nirtunai di Malaysia. Terbaru, pihak Boost telah mengumumkan yang mana mereka akan melakukan naik-taraf kepada perkhidmatan dompet digital mereka.

Melalui naik-taraf baru ini, Boost akan menawarkan saiz dompet digital yang lebih besar, membolehkan simpanan sehingga RM1000 untuk dompet Boost Basic, dan sehingga RM4999 untuk Boost Premium. Dompet baru juga turut akan menawarkan sokongan pemindahan wang antara pengguna Boost dengan mudah.

Namun, salah satu ciri yang akan dibuang adalah sokongan pengeluaran wang dari Boost ke akaun bank.

Boost Wallet Baru

Melalui notifikasi yang diberikan pada aplikasi, Boost mengatakan langkah ini dalam menambah-baik lagi keselamatan, dan mengelakkan duit keluar ke akaun bank yang tidak dikenal-pasti. Simpanan wang ini juga akan mengalakkan lagi transaksi dan penggunaan dalam ekosistem Boost ini sendiri.

Bagi anda yang menggunakan dompet digital Boost, dan ingin mengeluarkan wang, mungkin boleh lakukannya hari ini


https://amanz.my/2020236808/
saintnotsinner
post May 18 2020, 06:25 AM

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no prob for me. top up and use. what's the big deal?
HarDiE
post May 18 2020, 06:46 AM

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welcome to the hotel california
LamboSama
post May 18 2020, 06:47 AM

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Because people abuse it
CHIP CN
post May 18 2020, 06:49 AM

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Bye bye boost...

Dulu cash rebate and shake dapat duit.. sekali dpt point... Terus x minat nak guna...

This post has been edited by CHIP CN: May 18 2020, 06:51 AM
max_cavalera
post May 18 2020, 06:51 AM

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QUOTE(LamboSama @ May 18 2020, 07:47 AM)
Because people abuse it
*
How??
ZeroSOFInfinity
post May 18 2020, 07:00 AM

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QUOTE(max_cavalera @ May 18 2020, 06:51 AM)
How??
*
Credit card reload 1500. Withdraw with small fee. Tak bayar CC, get free money.

Now can reload up to 4999....

This post has been edited by ZeroSOFInfinity: May 18 2020, 07:04 AM
ikankering
post May 18 2020, 07:03 AM

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i use cash buy food for masak

Geekbuster
post May 18 2020, 07:04 AM

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SUSUnstability
post May 18 2020, 07:06 AM

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QUOTE(ZeroSOFInfinity @ May 18 2020, 07:00 AM)
Credit card reload 1500. Withdraw with small fee. Tak bayar CC, get free money.

Now can reload up to 4999....
*
We still have to pay the credit card debt. How is this abuse?
RGRaj
post May 18 2020, 07:07 AM

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QUOTE(Geekbuster @ May 18 2020, 07:04 AM)
Nirtunai
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Nirotak punya Aman, RIP BM
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Nir is sanskrit word meaning "without".
MR_alien
post May 18 2020, 07:14 AM

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QUOTE(Unstability @ May 18 2020, 07:06 AM)
We still have to pay the credit card debt. How is this abuse?
*
credit card debt is none of their worries
that's why our bankruptcy rate is so high
SUSUnstability
post May 18 2020, 07:15 AM

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QUOTE(MR_alien @ May 18 2020, 07:14 AM)
credit card debt is none of their worries
that's why our bankruptcy rate is so high
*
That's why wonder why boost Bodo Bodo want to do this. Bet many people will uninstall their boost after this.
buraqdunia
post May 18 2020, 07:17 AM

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QUOTE(Unstability @ May 18 2020, 07:06 AM)
We still have to pay the credit card debt. How is this abuse?
*
the abuse one is boost fee when trsfr to bank for cash out vs cc cash w\d fee. i think.

This post has been edited by buraqdunia: May 18 2020, 07:18 AM
graphidz
post May 18 2020, 07:22 AM

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Did they give early warning like at leas
T a week before or did they only now, one day before implementing, give notice people can't cash out?
ZeroSOFInfinity
post May 18 2020, 07:32 AM

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QUOTE(Unstability @ May 18 2020, 07:06 AM)
We still have to pay the credit card debt. How is this abuse?
*
You THINK ppl who do that will pay for the CC?
SUSmashy potato
post May 18 2020, 07:39 AM

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QUOTE(ZeroSOFInfinity @ May 18 2020, 07:00 AM)
Credit card reload 1500. Withdraw with small fee. Tak bayar CC, get free money.

Now can reload up to 4999....
*
QUOTE(ZeroSOFInfinity @ May 18 2020, 07:32 AM)
You THINK ppl who do that will pay for the CC?
*
big pay aslo can do it what.. they no problem with it oso... pandan betul la boost ni...
SUSMamapapamsia
post May 18 2020, 07:40 AM

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QUOTE(ZeroSOFInfinity @ May 18 2020, 07:00 AM)
Credit card reload 1500. Withdraw with small fee. Tak bayar CC, get free money.

Now can reload up to 4999....
*
U dont pay CC, straight block or blacklist

How many times can u do it? And how many cc can u have?

Thats not the reason . The reason is they dont want ppl to take out money from their ewallets. Ppl take out money from ewallet is the same as ppl taking out money from their bank account. The same concept as why Airasia only wanna refund credits instead of refund cash. Because Boost is dying already . Cant fight the big boys Grab &Touch & Go
victorian
post May 18 2020, 07:41 AM

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QUOTE(Mamapapamsia @ May 18 2020, 07:40 AM)
U dont pay CC, straight block or blacklist

How many times can u do it? And how many cc can u have?

Thats not the reason . The reason is they dont want ppl to take out money from their ewallets. Ppl take out money from ewallet is the same as ppl taking out money from their bank account. The same concept as why Airasia only wanna refund credits instead of refund cash. Because Boost is dying already . Cant fight the big boys Grab &Touch & Go
*
Because people are abusing credit card cashback I think.

If you can top up to your E wallet and withdraw it back to your bank account, that’s as good as nothing spent.

They are trying to fix this loophole.
imperialrealcs
post May 18 2020, 07:42 AM

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QUOTE(Unstability @ May 18 2020, 07:06 AM)
We still have to pay the credit card debt. How is this abuse?
*
people reload a big sump to boost via cc and withdraw it then they get 1 more month extension to pay back the cc. this is abusive and i actually support tis move
dean.ab25
post May 18 2020, 07:45 AM

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QUOTE(RGRaj @ May 18 2020, 07:07 AM)
Nir is sanskrit word meaning "without".
*
dia mana tau, dia kan ikan. ehhhh
mesti tak mau baca berita bernama tapi gigih follow FMT, MK, Malay Mail.
terradrive
post May 18 2020, 07:47 AM

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at least allow debit card users to allow transfer out the cash lar

This post has been edited by terradrive: May 18 2020, 07:47 AM
ZeroSOFInfinity
post May 18 2020, 08:33 AM

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QUOTE(mashy potato @ May 18 2020, 07:39 AM)
big pay aslo can do it what.. they no problem with it oso... pandan betul la boost ni...
*
Big Pay can use for international. Boost cant.
ZeroSOFInfinity
post May 18 2020, 08:34 AM

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QUOTE(Mamapapamsia @ May 18 2020, 07:40 AM)
U dont pay CC, straight block or blacklist

How many times can u do it? And how many cc can u have?

Thats not the reason . The reason is they dont want ppl to take out money from their ewallets. Ppl take out money from ewallet is the same as ppl taking out money from their bank account. The same concept as why Airasia only wanna refund credits instead of refund cash. Because Boost is dying already . Cant fight the big boys Grab &Touch & Go
*
3. And yes, I did it before.
SUSlaoahpek
post May 18 2020, 08:52 AM

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QUOTE(MR_alien @ May 18 2020, 07:14 AM)
credit card debt is none of their worries
that's why our bankruptcy rate is so high
*
I tot abuse works when abuse user got benefit from doing it

if need to pay back CC or bankrupt...u cant call it abuse, no? hmm.gif
gogocan
post May 18 2020, 09:00 AM

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QUOTE(imperialrealcs @ May 18 2020, 07:42 AM)
people reload a big sump to boost via cc and withdraw it then they get 1 more month extension to pay back the cc. this is abusive and i actually support tis move
*
Why extra 1 month?
The_Rock
post May 18 2020, 09:01 AM

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Real man use cash
Revamperz
post May 18 2020, 09:02 AM

im freaking IN! ™
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that boost 1k limit need any verification o not?
ben_ang
post May 18 2020, 09:06 AM

ITS JINX NOW.POWDER FELL DOWN A WELL
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i stopped using boost when mbb say no cashback when reload ewallet, if iremember correctly boost cannot withdraw back to bank tat time.
andrekua2
post May 18 2020, 09:08 AM

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Congrats...
Tahniah...

Kepada semua abuser atas kejayaan anda menumbangkan e-wallet Boost...
elemont
post May 18 2020, 09:09 AM

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Cukur i no use Boost.
krsdy76
post May 18 2020, 09:09 AM

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Their problem is reliability, deducted already then transaction failed. Ask for refund? takes ding dong forever in their CS system.
SUSCmyong88
post May 18 2020, 09:11 AM

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QUOTE(Unstability @ May 18 2020, 07:06 AM)
We still have to pay the credit card debt. How is this abuse?
*
You obviously do not have much Malay friends. Every now and then my company will get calls from banks chase money and it's always those kampung dweller workers and they really don't give 2 cents about bankruptcy. It literally would not effect them because worst case scenario they ask gaji to be paid in cash and in return, I put them as temp workers on cash basis without socso epf. I untung they untung.
Tongkat Ali
post May 18 2020, 09:13 AM

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Use maybank2u guys. Better than boost
darosha
post May 18 2020, 09:15 AM

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kalau send money pun tak boleh tu sial tu
s@ni
post May 18 2020, 09:15 AM

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QUOTE(darth5zaft @ May 18 2020, 06:07 AM)
Tiada Lagi Pengeluaran Wang Dari Boost Ke Akaun Bank Bermula Esok, 18 Mei 2020
Diterbitkan pada Mei 17, 2020 oleh Aman.
Boost merupakan salah satu perkhidmatan dompet digital yang popular, yang turut mempopularkan penggunaan nirtunai di Malaysia. Terbaru, pihak Boost telah mengumumkan yang mana mereka akan melakukan naik-taraf kepada perkhidmatan dompet digital mereka.

Melalui naik-taraf baru ini, Boost akan menawarkan saiz dompet digital yang lebih besar, membolehkan simpanan sehingga RM1000 untuk dompet Boost Basic, dan sehingga RM4999 untuk Boost Premium. Dompet baru juga turut akan menawarkan sokongan pemindahan wang antara pengguna Boost dengan mudah.

Namun, salah satu ciri yang akan dibuang adalah sokongan pengeluaran wang dari Boost ke akaun bank.

Boost Wallet Baru

Melalui notifikasi yang diberikan pada aplikasi, Boost mengatakan langkah ini dalam menambah-baik lagi keselamatan, dan mengelakkan duit keluar ke akaun bank yang tidak dikenal-pasti. Simpanan wang ini juga akan mengalakkan lagi transaksi dan penggunaan dalam ekosistem Boost ini sendiri.

Bagi anda yang menggunakan dompet digital Boost, dan ingin mengeluarkan wang, mungkin boleh lakukannya hari ini
https://amanz.my/2020236808/
*
kalau tie in ke akaun bank sendiri pun tak boleh ka?
kons
post May 18 2020, 09:17 AM

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cukur still got bigpay...

never use boost for cash out, just for shake shake.
otakotak
post May 18 2020, 09:20 AM

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still got ppl use boost?
billylks
post May 18 2020, 09:26 AM

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Stop using boost since their shake shake pays using boost coins.
3nf0rc3r
post May 18 2020, 09:30 AM

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Boycott, use grabpay.
anakMY
post May 18 2020, 09:43 AM

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QUOTE(kons @ May 18 2020, 09:17 AM)
cukur still got bigpay...

never use boost for cash out, just for shake shake.
*
I jz stopped playng cash out game lol, nowadays troublesome to do it bcz of this covid19.
ekoh
post May 18 2020, 09:48 AM

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sooner or later, all the ewallet will not allow cash out
MR_alien
post May 18 2020, 09:50 AM

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QUOTE(Unstability @ May 18 2020, 07:15 AM)
That's why wonder why boost Bodo Bodo want to do this. Bet many people will uninstall their boost after this.
*
BNM is watching laugh.gif
they wanna earn but u don't want BNM put u in watchlist or blacklist
MR_alien
post May 18 2020, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(laoahpek @ May 18 2020, 08:52 AM)
I tot abuse works when abuse user got benefit from doing it

if need to pay back CC or bankrupt...u cant call it abuse, no? hmm.gif
*
abuse only meant "taking advantage"
it didn't say you're gonna win all the time or everytime
UrbanGraduate
post May 18 2020, 09:53 AM

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thats it no more boost
PJng
post May 18 2020, 09:55 AM

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No a problem for me, never cash out
gooroojee
post May 18 2020, 09:59 AM

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eWallet was never meant for money in money out without actual transactions. That is the simplest form of money laundering.
mushigen
post May 18 2020, 10:04 AM

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QUOTE(ZeroSOFInfinity @ May 18 2020, 07:00 AM)
Credit card reload 1500. Withdraw with small fee. Tak bayar CC, get free money.

Now can reload up to 4999....
*
I don't think this is the reason because
1. CC holders can still withdraw from ATM without going through boost
2. Why should boost care if the cc holder doesn't pay back the bank, unless it's BNM's instruction?

The main reason could be this, as stated in the first post.
Simpanan wang ini juga akan mengalakkan lagi transaksi dan penggunaan dalam ekosistem Boost ini sendiri.
mushigen
post May 18 2020, 10:05 AM

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QUOTE(gooroojee @ May 18 2020, 09:59 AM)
eWallet was never meant for money in money out without actual transactions. That is the simplest form of money laundering.
*
The simplest form should be cash, no?
eXTaTine
post May 18 2020, 10:11 AM

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Be careful, this is one of the warning signs they may go bankrupt and take your money with you.
maxpudding
post May 18 2020, 10:19 AM

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QUOTE(mushigen @ May 18 2020, 10:04 AM)
I don't think this is the reason because
1. CC holders can still withdraw from ATM without going through boost
2. Why should boost care if the cc holder doesn't pay back the bank, unless it's BNM's instruction?

The main reason could be this, as stated in the first post.
Simpanan wang ini juga akan mengalakkan lagi transaksi dan penggunaan dalam ekosistem Boost ini sendiri.
*
Correct

You can get cash money out of your cc, dont need to use boost as the platform to get cash (unless they are too stupid to dont know)

Never use boost before, but this “trying to keep money inside boost ecosystem” sounds...not good? I dunno
roystevenung
post May 18 2020, 10:23 AM

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Dun understand why Boost or TnG tabouli pay TNB.

In terms of regular bills, that is one of the biggest bill in our home.

Apa sarahan TNB?
mushigen
post May 18 2020, 10:26 AM

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QUOTE(maxpudding @ May 18 2020, 10:19 AM)
Correct

You can get cash money out of your cc, dont need to use boost as the platform to get cash (unless they are too stupid to dont know)

Never use boost before, but this “trying to keep money inside boost ecosystem” sounds...not good? I dunno
*
I don't have boost wallet. I find the "shake for coins" idea silly. I already have T&G and Grab, and I don't want to have more spare cash lying idle in yet another e-wallet.

I think allowing users to withdraw cash is not (that) beneficial to them due to transaction and administrative costs involved - compared to users using it at merchants.
imperialrealcs
post May 18 2020, 10:51 AM

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QUOTE(gogocan @ May 18 2020, 09:00 AM)
Why extra 1 month?
*
lets say cc statement is 1st jan to 31jan and i owe 2k
on 1st feb i reload 2k into boost, take out the money and pay the 2k jan statement.
using cc money to pay cc, you basically extended your 2k repayment to 1 more month.
ada paham?
tohff7
post May 18 2020, 10:56 AM

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finally they totally closed down on the abuse
Darkcloudz
post May 18 2020, 10:58 AM

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shopee can but max 1500
SMB002
post May 18 2020, 11:06 AM

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Better cash out. The market will reacts very fast when confidence start losing.
powerlinkers
post May 18 2020, 11:09 AM

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QUOTE(LamboSama @ May 18 2020, 06:47 AM)
Because people abuse it
*
Credit card top up, withdraw ke akaun bank.
Boost kena bayar caj 2%.


Kalau tutup akaun boost, duit Baki masih akan dikembalikan tetapi tiada jaminan bhw akaun baru akan dibenarkan untuk dibuka.
Matchy
post May 18 2020, 11:11 AM

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QUOTE(roystevenung @ May 18 2020, 10:23 AM)
Dun understand why Boost or TnG tabouli pay TNB.

In terms of regular bills, that is one of the biggest bill in our home.

Apa sarahan TNB?
*
I think TNB dont want Boost/TNG to have a cut kot...
party
post May 18 2020, 11:26 AM

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QUOTE(imperialrealcs @ May 18 2020, 10:51 AM)
lets say cc statement is 1st jan to 31jan and i owe 2k
on 1st feb i reload 2k into boost, take out the money and pay the 2k jan statement.
using cc money to pay cc, you basically extended your 2k repayment to 1 more month.
ada paham?
*
This

Plus

in the initial phase,

Reloading boost is consider as normal retail usage so u get

1. Cashback from 1 - 10% depending which bank
2. nil interest rate for months (if you know how - refer to boost thread)

so basically if u got few CC, u get 3-5k + per mth extra 100-200 for free.

but that was initial phase.
x3Kai
post May 18 2020, 11:34 AM

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got 1k+ stuck inside. sien.
they say got send notification about the change but i never receive
PJng
post May 18 2020, 11:37 AM

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QUOTE(x3Kai @ May 18 2020, 11:34 AM)
got 1k+ stuck inside. sien.
they say got send notification about the change but i never receive
*
E mail
x3Kai
post May 18 2020, 11:39 AM

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QUOTE(PJng @ May 18 2020, 11:37 AM)
E mail
*
also dun have
never receive email from them other than receipts for in app purchases
megahertz
post May 18 2020, 11:43 AM

i always smiling, problem?
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QUOTE(Geekbuster @ May 18 2020, 07:04 AM)
Nirtunai
Nirwayar
Nirbingkai

Nirotak punya Aman, RIP BM
*
failed BM bro ?

i didnt use boost anymore, since bigpay also can withdraw money already long time ago.


This post has been edited by megahertz: May 18 2020, 11:44 AM
munky
post May 18 2020, 11:50 AM

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QUOTE(Unstability @ May 18 2020, 07:06 AM)
We still have to pay the credit card debt. How is this abuse?
*
i abuse it by withdrawing the maximum allowed every month with my cashback credit card

so i get the free cashback
TechForumer
post May 18 2020, 11:55 AM

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QUOTE(HarDiE @ May 18 2020, 06:46 AM)
welcome to the hotel california
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pluginbaby
post May 18 2020, 12:01 PM

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QUOTE(munky @ May 18 2020, 11:50 AM)
i abuse it by withdrawing the maximum allowed every month with my cashback credit card

so i get the free cashback
*
Good example to quote here
SUSNed_Fromthenorth
post May 18 2020, 12:02 PM

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QUOTE(megahertz @ May 18 2020, 11:43 AM)
failed BM bro ?

i didnt use boost anymore, since bigpay also can withdraw money already long time ago.
*
Bigpay best. At least is macam actual credit card. And foreign exchange rate very good.
tupai
post May 18 2020, 12:02 PM

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QUOTE(x3Kai @ May 18 2020, 11:34 AM)
got 1k+ stuck inside. sien.
they say got send notification about the change but i never receive
*
You still can send the money to other people. Send to me. I 'promise' I give you cash. Hahahaahha
SUSAud power
post May 18 2020, 12:03 PM

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lol got scammed again
change your real cash for fake cash
ed0gawa
post May 18 2020, 12:04 PM

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QUOTE(munky @ May 18 2020, 11:50 AM)
i abuse it by withdrawing the maximum allowed every month with my cashback credit card

so i get the free cashback
*
Itu masalah bank, apasal boost stop cashout.
Bank should stop cashback for e wallet topup then
TSdarth5zaft
post May 18 2020, 12:15 PM

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QUOTE(eXTaTine @ May 18 2020, 10:11 AM)
Be careful, this is one of the warning signs they may go bankrupt and take your money with you.
*
this.

stupiak07
post May 18 2020, 12:19 PM

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will stop using it, not like every place have it.

back to using cash, maybank qr pay
Geekbuster
post May 18 2020, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(megahertz @ May 18 2020, 11:43 AM)
failed BM bro ?

i didnt use boost anymore, since bigpay also can withdraw money already long time ago.
*
Nir is not BM word

http://prpm.dbp.gov.my/Cari1?keyword=nir&d=175768&#LIHATSINI


xixo_12
post May 18 2020, 12:39 PM

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not using it too much anymore..i just use to topup the amount i need to pay for bill.. thats all..doesnt care this app anymore
mushigen
post May 18 2020, 12:40 PM

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QUOTE(munky @ May 18 2020, 11:50 AM)
i abuse it by withdrawing the maximum allowed every month with my cashback credit card

so i get the free cashback
*
Who paid for the cb? Boost or the bank?
munky
post May 18 2020, 12:53 PM

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QUOTE(mushigen @ May 18 2020, 12:40 PM)
Who paid for the cb? Boost or the bank?
*
bank of course
gooroojee
post May 18 2020, 12:54 PM

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QUOTE(mushigen @ May 18 2020, 10:05 AM)
The simplest form should be cash, no?
*
Cash is bulky and cannot be easily moved in larger amounts
BronzePlate
post May 18 2020, 12:55 PM

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Macai payment thru boost ke?
powerlinkers
post May 18 2020, 12:57 PM

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People abuse the boost app....akhirnya, semua kena.


Tutup akaun je kalau nak keluar duit.

This post has been edited by powerlinkers: May 18 2020, 12:58 PM
moosset
post May 18 2020, 01:30 PM

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QUOTE(MR_alien @ May 18 2020, 09:51 AM)
abuse only meant "taking advantage"
it didn't say you're gonna win all the time or everytime
*
I disagree with the term abuse. Just because a lot of ppl use certain features of a product, doesn't equate to abuse!

Whenever ppl withdraw money, they also pay a fee even though money transfer nowadays is actually INSTANT and FREE. The limit was only RM3k per month. What happen if you accidentally top-up too much and need cash? How? Money stuck there.

It's my money. If I put it there, I should be able to get it back.

---------------

to draw another example: banks earn interests whenever you have late payment after 30 days grace period. A lot of ppl pay on time and banks don't earn any interest. Would anyone consider that as an abuse? No .... it's just a credit card feature!! Of course, the banks could start charging interests on CC from day one, and charge even more interests if you don't settle all after 30 days. Banks could do that, but they didn't.

I think if I were boost, not allowing others to cash-out is best for the company. Keep hogging their cash and earn interest on it. As long as you have balance in it, they AT LEAST earn interests on your balance. And some ppl might forget they still have balance in their e-wallet, so good for Boost. Some ppl have a little balance like less than RM10, hard to use without topping up. So, Boost can also absorb this unclaimed balance.

All in all, this move only benefits Boost!
but they managed to paraphrase it to ".....so that you don't fall victims to scams...." doh.gif
mushigen
post May 18 2020, 01:32 PM

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QUOTE(munky @ May 18 2020, 12:53 PM)
bank of course
*
So it doesn't make sense for boost to stop withdrawal if preventing cb abuse is the reason.

QUOTE(gooroojee @ May 18 2020, 12:54 PM)
Cash is bulky and cannot be easily moved in larger amounts
*
There should be a limit for boost. You can't transfer rm10k, for example.
ZeroSOFInfinity
post May 18 2020, 01:49 PM

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QUOTE(mushigen @ May 18 2020, 10:04 AM)
I don't think this is the reason because
1. CC holders can still withdraw from ATM without going through boost
2. Why should boost care if the cc holder doesn't pay back the bank, unless it's BNM's instruction?

The main reason could be this, as stated in the first post.
Simpanan wang ini juga akan mengalakkan lagi transaksi dan penggunaan dalam ekosistem Boost ini sendiri.
*
You can, but the charges are high. Boost is lower.
MR_alien
post May 18 2020, 01:49 PM

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QUOTE(moosset @ May 18 2020, 01:30 PM)
I disagree with the term abuse. Just because a lot of ppl use certain features of a product, doesn't equate to abuse!

Whenever ppl withdraw money, they also pay a fee even though money transfer nowadays is actually INSTANT and FREE. The limit was only RM3k per month. What happen if you accidentally top-up too much and need cash? How? Money stuck there.

It's my money. If I put it there, I should be able to get it back.

---------------

to draw another example: banks earn interests whenever you have late payment after 30 days grace period. A lot of ppl pay on time and banks don't earn any interest. Would anyone consider that as an abuse? No .... it's just a credit card feature!! Of course, the banks could start charging interests on CC from day one, and charge even more interests if you don't settle all after 30 days. Banks could do that, but they didn't.

I think if I were boost, not allowing others to cash-out is best for the company. Keep hogging their cash and earn interest on it. As long as you have balance in it, they AT LEAST earn interests on your balance. And some ppl might forget they still have balance in their e-wallet, so good for Boost. Some ppl have a little balance like less than RM10, hard to use without topping up. So, Boost can also absorb this unclaimed balance.

All in all, this move only benefits Boost!
but they managed to paraphrase it to ".....so that you don't fall victims to scams...."  doh.gif
*
well, the thing abt that in this case is
they don't care abt the late payment fee or interest at all and that they're not even gonna pay for the CC bill

because if they're going to pay for it, they're not gonna do it this way from the beginning because they know the risk and the payment

they shut down the feature based on order from BNM i guess, when BNM is watching u..u better becareful already
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QUOTE(ZeroSOFInfinity @ May 18 2020, 01:49 PM)
You can, but the charges are high. Boost is lower.
*
How much did boost charge for withdrawal vs cc advance?

And if it's free money as you said "tak bayar cc", the difference is immaterial, right?
mushigen
post May 18 2020, 01:54 PM

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QUOTE(MR_alien @ May 18 2020, 01:49 PM)
well, the thing abt that in this case is
they don't care abt the late payment fee or interest at all and that they're not even gonna pay for the CC bill

because if they're going to pay for it, they're not gonna do it this way from the beginning because they know the risk and the payment

they shut down the feature based on order from BNM i guess, when BNM is watching u..u better becareful already
*
So, the next "order" from BNM is to ban cc cash advance via atm, since they're not going to pay anyway?
MR_alien
post May 18 2020, 02:06 PM

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QUOTE(mushigen @ May 18 2020, 01:54 PM)
So, the next "order" from BNM is to ban cc cash advance via atm, since they're not going to pay anyway?
*
i want to know what is the limit for CC cash advance via atm is..because in this case for boost is RM1k-RM5k

because i've used card to withdraw before but that was a long time ago, i can't choose amount...all that came out is RM200
KineticKill
post May 18 2020, 02:11 PM

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QUOTE(ZeroSOFInfinity @ May 18 2020, 12:00 AM)
Credit card reload 1500. Withdraw with small fee. Tak bayar CC, get free money.

Now can reload up to 4999....
*
BigPay can do this no problem.

You can save a bit of money than doing direct withdrawal from CC.
heavensea
post May 18 2020, 02:16 PM

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Noon wallet
unknown_2
post May 18 2020, 02:17 PM

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QUOTE(ZeroSOFInfinity @ May 18 2020, 07:00 AM)
Credit card reload 1500. Withdraw with small fee. Tak bayar CC, get free money.

Now can reload up to 4999....
*
change edi la.
no more 1200.
i think max 200 per transaction.
SUSUnstability
post May 18 2020, 02:22 PM

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QUOTE(ZeroSOFInfinity @ May 18 2020, 07:32 AM)
You THINK ppl who do that will pay for the CC?
*
Then that is between the bank and the customer. No need for boost to care. Customer don't pay ctos/ccris him. Worst case pursue legal option on the customer. Boost not affected.
party
post May 18 2020, 02:23 PM

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QUOTE(mushigen @ May 18 2020, 01:51 PM)
How much did boost charge for withdrawal vs cc advance?

And if it's free money as you said "tak bayar cc", the difference is immaterial, right?
*
cc cash advance is 5% of total (min rm50). interest start count 15% on day 1

vs

boost (charge dunno). no interest rate as bank consider normal retail spend (so u get 20 days free)

QUOTE(MR_alien @ May 18 2020, 02:06 PM)
i want to know what is the limit for CC cash advance via atm is..because in this case for boost is RM1k-RM5k

because i've used card to withdraw before but that was a long time ago, i can't choose amount...all that came out is RM200
*
depends bank.

i got 2 banks can withdraw 100% of limit, 1 bank 80%, another max RM1500 only.
powerlinkers
post May 18 2020, 02:27 PM

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QUOTE(moosset @ May 18 2020, 01:30 PM)
I disagree with the term abuse. Just because a lot of ppl use certain features of a product, doesn't equate to abuse!

Whenever ppl withdraw money, they also pay a fee even though money transfer nowadays is actually INSTANT and FREE. The limit was only RM3k per month. What happen if you accidentally top-up too much and need cash? How? Money stuck there.

It's my money. If I put it there, I should be able to get it back.

---------------

to draw another example: banks earn interests whenever you have late payment after 30 days grace period. A lot of ppl pay on time and banks don't earn any interest. Would anyone consider that as an abuse? No .... it's just a credit card feature!! Of course, the banks could start charging interests on CC from day one, and charge even more interests if you don't settle all after 30 days. Banks could do that, but they didn't.

I think if I were boost, not allowing others to cash-out is best for the company. Keep hogging their cash and earn interest on it. As long as you have balance in it, they AT LEAST earn interests on your balance. And some ppl might forget they still have balance in their e-wallet, so good for Boost. Some ppl have a little balance like less than RM10, hard to use without topping up. So, Boost can also absorb this unclaimed balance.

All in all, this move only benefits Boost!
but they managed to paraphrase it to ".....so that you don't fall victims to scams...."  doh.gif
*
Use your brain and top up only the needed amount.
If not , refrain from using the app.
No one forces you to use Boost app.
If you don’t like their terms and conditions, close down the account and take back your money.

They are bound by BNM rules to return your money when you close your account but they have no obligation to allow you to open an account with them again.

This post has been edited by powerlinkers: May 18 2020, 02:29 PM
mushigen
post May 18 2020, 02:29 PM

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QUOTE(party @ May 18 2020, 02:23 PM)
cc cash advance is 5% of total (min rm50). interest start count 15% on day 1

vs

boost (charge dunno). no interest rate as bank consider normal retail spend (so u get 20 days free)
depends bank.

i got 2 banks can withdraw 100% of limit, 1 bank 80%, another max RM1500 only.
*
TQ for the information.

Anyway it's still immaterial because the argument put forth is people who withdraw via boost have no intention to repay the bank.

My point is, if abusing cb or interest from withdrawal is the reason for boost to stop, it does not make sense because it's the bank that loses, not boost.

john123x
post May 18 2020, 02:29 PM

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Deleted

This post has been edited by john123x: May 18 2020, 02:30 PM
party
post May 18 2020, 02:31 PM

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QUOTE(mushigen @ May 18 2020, 02:29 PM)
TQ for the information.

Anyway  it's still immaterial because the argument put forth is people who withdraw via boost have no intention to repay the bank.

My point is, if abusing cb or interest from withdrawal is the reason for boost to stop, it does not make sense because it's the bank that loses, not boost.
*
boost stop is different reason i believe.

not paying is bank issue.

cashback is bank rugi so also bank issue and it was banks that stopped to give cashback.
tan_aniki
post May 18 2020, 02:32 PM

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i bet u will continue to use it, so complain also no use, just live with it
mushigen
post May 18 2020, 02:36 PM

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QUOTE(party @ May 18 2020, 02:31 PM)
boost stop is different reason i believe.

not paying is bank issue.

cashback is bank rugi so also bank issue and it was banks that stopped to give cashback.
*
That's what I think too. Deswai it's baffling when someone wrote it's to stem the abuse when ppl withdraw money.
zhou.xingxing
post May 18 2020, 02:38 PM

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already a lot gotten cash back liao
ziniowong
post May 18 2020, 02:41 PM

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wow, the taiko who abused kaw kaw and always bragged about it dah masuk comment
kkk8787
post May 18 2020, 02:42 PM

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QUOTE(ziniowong @ May 18 2020, 02:41 PM)
wow, the taiko who abused kaw kaw and always bragged about it dah masuk comment
*
I dont understand. How to abuse
BenYeeHua
post May 18 2020, 02:44 PM

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Well, I will wait to see when all bank support DuitNow QR, and customer paying directly to seller using bank apps instead of top up to Boost/TnG ewallet which can't withdraw.

Unless... they mess it up. wink.gif

So far no mention of fees/cost for customer to customer, but it seem like easy to setup own qr code without becoming a seller.

So... Just Boost paying back to your bank DuitNow QR code?? hmm.gif

https://www.duitnow.my/DuitNow-QR/

This post has been edited by BenYeeHua: May 18 2020, 02:46 PM
Zhik
post May 18 2020, 02:45 PM

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i just withdraw my cash out from boast into my bank last week and uninstall it.

imagine that rm65 cash out back to bank transfer fee charge rm1+. fuck it.

This post has been edited by Zhik: May 18 2020, 02:46 PM
ziniowong
post May 18 2020, 02:45 PM

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QUOTE(kkk8787 @ May 18 2020, 02:42 PM)
I dont understand.  How to abuse
*
sorry... not 'abused', just taking advantage of card feature
mushigen
post May 18 2020, 02:50 PM

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QUOTE(BenYeeHua @ May 18 2020, 02:44 PM)
Well, I will wait to see when all bank support DuitNow QR, and customer paying directly to seller using bank apps instead of top up to Boost/TnG ewallet which can't withdraw.

Unless... they mess it up. wink.gif

So far no mention of fees/cost for customer to customer, but it seem like easy to setup own qr code without becoming a seller.

So... Just Boost paying back to your bank DuitNow QR code?? hmm.gif

https://www.duitnow.my/DuitNow-QR/
*
If they continue to offer cashback, I don't see why people will ditch them for duitnow.
kkk8787
post May 18 2020, 02:51 PM

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QUOTE(ziniowong @ May 18 2020, 02:45 PM)
sorry... not 'abused', just taking advantage of card feature
*
And what do they get
DValentine
post May 18 2020, 02:53 PM

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QUOTE(Geekbuster @ May 18 2020, 07:04 AM)
Nirtunai
Nirwayar
Nirbingkai

Nirotak punya Aman, RIP BM
*
apa dbp buat?

MEMARTABATKAN BM!!!

jangan jadi bahasa indon
BenYeeHua
post May 18 2020, 02:57 PM

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QUOTE(mushigen @ May 18 2020, 02:50 PM)
If they continue to offer cashback, I don't see why people will ditch them for duitnow.
*
Just to withdraw the money? tongue.gif

As money withdraw is disabled, so you can only DuitNow QR for "paying" to your own bank account. laugh.gif

QUOTE
To set up and use DuitNow QR:

Log in to AmOnline using the AmOnline app on your mobile device.
1.Tap on “Scan QR”.
2.Select “Set Up Now” and proceed to select your preferred debiting account (Current/-i Account or Savings/-i Account) to pay or receive money. Agree to the Terms & Conditions. Then request and input Transaction Authorisation Code (TAC).
3.Upon successful registration, tap on “Scan Now” to scan a DuitNow QR code or “Scan QR” on your Account Summary page.
4.For first time use, you will need to allow AmOnline to access your phone camera before you are able to start scanning.
You must first have Quick Access activated in your mobile device to use DuitNow QR. To learn more about setting up Quick Access and its services, please click here.

https://www.ambank.com.my/eng/frequently-as...ions/DuitNow-QR

Seem very easy to get your own DuitNow QR, and it is instant transaction, so your money is directly in your bank account for other use.

Or..
Did using Boost can also get instant transaction to withdraw the money from bank, after a customer paid to you? hmm.gif

If the benefit is larger on DuitNow QR, then they might switch over it.

This post has been edited by BenYeeHua: May 18 2020, 03:01 PM
tohff7
post May 18 2020, 03:04 PM

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QUOTE(kkk8787 @ May 18 2020, 02:51 PM)
And what do they get
*
easy cashback? easy reward points?

let's just face it. This abuse/loophole/"features" is going to end someday or another since it's not a sustainable business model for Boost/BigPay/TnG wallet
stealthrider
post May 18 2020, 03:04 PM

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QUOTE(Geekbuster @ May 18 2020, 07:04 AM)
Nirtunai
Nirwayar
Nirbingkai

Nirotak punya Aman, RIP BM
*
Orang Indonesia barangkali? hmm.gif
emburrar
post May 18 2020, 03:11 PM

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QUOTE(Unstability @ May 18 2020, 07:06 AM)
We still have to pay the credit card debt. How is this abuse?
*
wadepak same avatar
drug5
post May 18 2020, 03:13 PM

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QUOTE(ZeroSOFInfinity @ May 18 2020, 07:00 AM)
Credit card reload 1500. Withdraw with small fee. Tak bayar CC, get free money.

Now can reload up to 4999....
*
Don understand here. U still need to pay ur CC right? still rugi
mushigen
post May 18 2020, 04:27 PM

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QUOTE(BenYeeHua @ May 18 2020, 02:57 PM)
Just to withdraw the money? tongue.gif
*
Nope, as long as they continue to give cashback for retail expenses, I don't know why I need to switch to duitnow.

QUOTE(drug5 @ May 18 2020, 03:13 PM)
Don understand here. U still need to pay ur CC right? still rugi
*
He said people go yolo and don't pay the cc after transferring to boost and withdraw from boost. So I replied it makes no difference because he can withdraw from ATM using the cc directly and still go yolo.
drug5
post May 18 2020, 04:31 PM

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QUOTE(mushigen @ May 18 2020, 04:27 PM)
Nope, as long as they continue to give cashback for retail expenses, I don't know why I need to switch to duitnow.
He said people go yolo and don't pay the cc after transferring to boost and withdraw from boost. So I replied it makes no difference because he can withdraw from ATM using the cc directly and still go yolo.
*
Yeah maybe thru boost save the withdrawal fees. But its not really abusing.

Most likely boost wanna keep their monies and force them to spend all
mushigen
post May 18 2020, 04:35 PM

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QUOTE(drug5 @ May 18 2020, 04:31 PM)
Yeah maybe thru boost save the withdrawal fees. But its not really abusing.

Most likely boost wanna keep their monies and force them to spend all
*
As someone said here, lower withdrawal fees compared to cc advance withdrawal and interest free 20-day repayment period after you transfer from cc to boost.
Or getting cashback from bank for the top up to boost, then withdraw at lower fee than the cb earned.

Whether it's abuse or not, it's up to individual's viewpoint. However, for them to suggest that the reason Boost stops the withdrawal is due to this "abuse" does not make sense to me because it's the banks that are losing out, not Boost.
moosset
post May 18 2020, 05:19 PM

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QUOTE(powerlinkers @ May 18 2020, 02:27 PM)
Use your brain and top up only the needed amount.
If not , refrain from using the app.
No one forces you to use Boost app.
If you don’t like their terms and conditions, close down the account and take back your money.

They are bound by BNM rules to return your money when you close your account but they have no obligation to allow you to open an account with them again.
*
Accidentally......... accidents happen!

Yes, no one forces me to use the app, doesn't mean I agree with what their product.
No one forces me to do ABCDEF ...... doesn't mean we cannot be critical of the products.

If you don't want others to criticise, then don't start a business lah ....... tongue.gif The same logic applies!

anyway, I'm just trying to have a more productive discussion in order to have a better consumer experience....
powerlinkers
post May 18 2020, 05:47 PM

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QUOTE(moosset @ May 18 2020, 05:19 PM)
Accidentally......... accidents happen!

Yes, no one forces me to use the app, doesn't mean I agree with what their product.
No one forces me to do ABCDEF ...... doesn't mean we cannot be critical of the products.


If you don't want others to criticise, then don't start a business lah ....... tongue.gif  The same logic applies!

anyway, I'm just trying to have a more productive discussion in order to have a better consumer experience....
*
No one cares whatever you want to agree or disagree.
Malaysia has high economic freedom index (open economy), no one will force you to buy something.

I repeat again : it is your own choice and responsibility.
Just close your boost account once and for all to take out your money.
moosset
post May 18 2020, 05:50 PM

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QUOTE(powerlinkers @ May 18 2020, 05:47 PM)
No one cares whatever you want to agree or disagree.
Malaysia has high economic freedom index (open economy), no one will force you to buy something.

I repeat again : it is your own choice and responsibility.
Just close your boost account once and for all to take out your money.
*
Understood, but this is a forum for discussion.

If not, you can post one liner in each thread saying, "No one cares whatever you want....." laugh.gif
a13solut3
post May 18 2020, 05:51 PM

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i sudah ada 90k points and another scam account 70k points. S20 ULTRA HERE I COMEEEEEE
powerlinkers
post May 18 2020, 05:52 PM

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QUOTE(moosset @ May 18 2020, 05:50 PM)
Understood, but this is a forum for discussion.

If not, you can post one liner in each thread saying, "No one cares whatever you want....."  laugh.gif
*
Sorry.
TSdarth5zaft
post May 18 2020, 07:43 PM

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I still don't get it?


hjffgjng
post May 18 2020, 08:02 PM

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QUOTE(ekoh @ May 18 2020, 09:48 AM)
sooner or later, all the ewallet will not allow cash out
*
then

maybank ewallet will have advantage

unless cant send to other bank acc lh
amir.asyraf
post May 18 2020, 08:04 PM

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QUOTE(mushigen @ May 18 2020, 04:35 PM)
As someone said here, lower withdrawal fees compared to cc advance withdrawal and interest free 20-day repayment period after you transfer from cc to boost.
Or getting cashback from bank for the top up to boost, then withdraw at lower fee than the cb earned.

Whether it's abuse or not, it's up to individual's viewpoint. However, for them to suggest that the reason Boost stops the withdrawal is due to this "abuse" does not make sense to me because it's the banks that are losing out, not Boost.
*
Nah that can't be it. Otherwise they'd just charge higher to discourage people from abusing the system.

They just want to have your money in their account, that's all there is to it.
PJng
post May 18 2020, 08:04 PM

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I don understand why need cash out function
I just reload 100 a time, use up balance, reload 100

mushigen
post May 18 2020, 08:07 PM

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QUOTE(amir.asyraf @ May 18 2020, 08:04 PM)
Nah that can't be it. Otherwise they'd just charge higher to discourage people from abusing the system.

They just want to have your money in their account, that's all there is to it.
*
I think so too. It's also mentioned in the first post about wanting users to spend in their ecosystem or sthg like that.
deathTh3Cannon
post May 18 2020, 08:09 PM

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dafuq is nirtunai
marukopi
post May 18 2020, 08:22 PM

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I think the actual reason is to avoid user cash out money from CC. Last time razerpay also disable topup via cc, gopayz too, and now boost follow.

To support the ecosystem is just want to taichi the real reason.

This post has been edited by marukopi: May 18 2020, 08:23 PM
Cream
post May 18 2020, 10:11 PM

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Immediately use up all credit to top up mobile and uninstall Boost App
13th
post May 19 2020, 03:07 AM

rakshaha
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Do you guys know how to permanently delete boost account? I don't want my information retain there 🙆

Edit. My topup limit becomes 4999
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


This post has been edited by 13th: May 19 2020, 03:08 AM
tohff7
post May 19 2020, 03:30 AM

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It’s obvious too many Boost users ‘abuse’ the features by just reloading CC and cashing out.

That’s why Boost need to stop it
fireballs
post May 19 2020, 03:36 AM

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QUOTE(tohff7 @ May 19 2020, 03:30 AM)
It’s obvious too many Boost users ‘abuse’ the features by just reloading CC and cashing out.

That’s why Boost need to stop it
*
then stop that particular 'feature'
dont stop the entire cash out thing. its an important safety net. if i sense somethign wrong with this 'bank' i want to withdraw everything out
Rudd
post May 19 2020, 07:29 AM

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what are the alternative to cash out for now?
hjffgjng
post May 19 2020, 07:38 AM

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QUOTE(a13solut3 @ May 18 2020, 05:51 PM)
i sudah ada 90k points and another scam account 70k points. S20 ULTRA HERE I COMEEEEEE
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holyshit wtf u did there

buy 75 inch on boost?
keyibukeyi
post May 19 2020, 07:45 AM

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Use imaginary money to get cashhhh naiiseee
munky
post May 19 2020, 08:49 AM

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QUOTE(KineticKill @ May 18 2020, 02:11 PM)
BigPay can do this no problem.

You can save a bit of money than doing direct withdrawal from CC.
*
too bad bigpay only can transfer 2k per month. For ATM withdrawal, i still havent found atm that allow more than 2k withdrawal for mastercard.

And my bigpay they already limit my topup via CC to RM5k :x
ykj
post May 19 2020, 08:57 AM

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If you cannot withdraw then merchant won't use Boost
Matchy
post May 19 2020, 08:57 AM

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QUOTE(mushigen @ May 18 2020, 04:35 PM)
As someone said here, lower withdrawal fees compared to cc advance withdrawal and interest free 20-day repayment period after you transfer from cc to boost.
Or getting cashback from bank for the top up to boost, then withdraw at lower fee than the cb earned.

Whether it's abuse or not, it's up to individual's viewpoint. However, for them to suggest that the reason Boost stops the withdrawal is due to this "abuse" does not make sense to me because it's the banks that are losing out, not Boost.
*
If ppl keep withdrawing the money from boost without spending, then boost cannot profit from the MDR fee.
KineticKill
post May 19 2020, 10:05 AM

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QUOTE(munky @ May 19 2020, 01:49 AM)
too bad bigpay only can transfer 2k per month. For ATM withdrawal, i still havent found atm that allow more than 2k withdrawal for mastercard.

And my bigpay they already limit my topup via CC to RM5k :x
*
The problem is actually not in the transfer out. It’s the transfer in. Now that you can only transfer in from CC 5k/month, money laundering is harder.
munky
post May 19 2020, 12:09 PM

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QUOTE(KineticKill @ May 19 2020, 10:05 AM)
The problem is actually not in the transfer out. It’s the transfer in. Now that you can only transfer in from CC 5k/month, money laundering is harder.
*
i want to withdraw more than 2k at once so that i dont have to pay the withdrawal fee too many times, thats the issue
SUSUnstability
post May 19 2020, 12:35 PM

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QUOTE(emburrar @ May 18 2020, 03:11 PM)
wadepak same avatar
*
I stole your avatar.
We are Muhyidin Yasin.
Eurobeater
post Jun 15 2020, 11:01 PM

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Wait, you could withdraw e-wallet money to your bank account?

I could have arbitraged this. Just max your cashback limit with your cc, withdrawal from the e-wallet and pay off your credit card. And instant free pocket money
shirohamada
post Jun 15 2020, 11:03 PM

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Economy bad
viole
post Jun 15 2020, 11:08 PM

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QUOTE(laoahpek @ May 18 2020, 08:52 AM)
I tot abuse works when abuse user got benefit from doing it

if need to pay back CC or bankrupt...u cant call it abuse, no? hmm.gif
*
cashback la. example, amex cashback is 1%. you reload boost 5k, then withdraw back and pay back. got 50 per month free.
MAGAMan-X
post Jun 16 2020, 10:39 AM

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QUOTE(saintnotsinner @ May 18 2020, 06:25 AM)
no prob for me. top up and use. what's the big deal?
*
no problem for you automatically translates to no problem for everyone. Interesting... hmm.gif
bamkai
post Jun 16 2020, 10:41 AM

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Pay tnb unifi water bills sekejap je habis
drowning
post Jun 16 2020, 10:43 AM

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That's their way to lock you in and force you to use their service.

Just use up all the balances you have there, and then stop using it anymore. Switch to others, or just use your contactless debit card.
SUSgoddesszilla
post Jun 16 2020, 02:36 PM

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Usually if i put extra money in there i will reuse it in the following month and the other month.
SUSgoddesszilla
post Jun 16 2020, 02:38 PM

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QUOTE(drowning @ Jun 16 2020, 10:43 AM)
That's their way to lock you in and force you to use their service.

Just use up all the balances you have there, and then stop using it anymore. Switch to others, or just use your contactless debit card.
*
I mean why not put in just the amount that we want to use.
For me la still using for the cashback hehehe.
zhou.xingxing
post Jun 16 2020, 04:03 PM

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QUOTE(Eurobeater @ Jun 15 2020, 11:01 PM)
Wait, you could withdraw e-wallet money to your bank account?

I could have arbitraged this. Just max your cashback limit with your cc, withdrawal from the e-wallet and pay off your credit card. And instant free pocket money
*
already a lot ppl do.thats why got this changes
saintnotsinner
post Jun 16 2020, 05:52 PM

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QUOTE(MAGAMan-X @ Jun 16 2020, 11:39 AM)
no problem for you automatically translates to no problem for everyone. Interesting... hmm.gif
*
problem because they can't abuse the system / fraud?
lee_lnh
post Jun 16 2020, 05:56 PM

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last i used boost was to deplete the cukur LGE gib RM30.. then i stop using liao
MAGAMan-X
post Jun 17 2020, 12:05 AM

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QUOTE(saintnotsinner @ Jun 16 2020, 05:52 PM)
problem because they can't abuse the system / fraud?
*
Withdrawing your own fund is abusing system/fraud??

 

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