we study sejarah in school always paint Birch as the evil englishman.

reast in peace the hero we need.



Birch was killed on 2 November 1875 by followers of a local Malay chief, Dato Maharajalela, including Sepuntum, who speared him to death while he was in the bath-house of his boat, SS Dragon, moored on the Perak river-bank below the Maharajela's house, in Pasir Salak, near today's Teluk Intan (Teluk Anson).[3]

Richard Olaf Winstedt in his "A History of Malaya" on page 226 published in the Journal of the Malaysian Branch of the Royal Asiatic Society, reprinted in 1986, wrote that a Malay deputation entreated with Governor-General Andrew Clarke in Singapore "to prevent the Resident from interfering with religion and custom, from acting without consulting Sultan and chiefs, and from depriving them of their property, namely fugitive slaves and feudal dues." Clarke had already observed on 25 March 1875 that, "I am very much annoyed with Birch and the heads-over-heels way in which he does things; he and I will come to sorrow yet, if he does not mind." On 21 July 1875 Raja Abdullah, in despair, called a meeting of chiefs where after a talk of poisoning Birch accepted the Maharajalela's offer to stab Birch to death.



TL;DR: JWW Birch try to abolish songlaps, orang kite cronyism and slavery but kena bunuh while mandi.


https://www.britannica.com/event/Perak-War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_W._W._Birch

This post has been edited by Ned_Fromthenorth: May 12 2020, 12:07 PM

bumi ini milik siapa

ops we wants kronism

He wasn't liked because he wanted to do away with slavery or indentured labour prevalent at the time, maybe he wasn't gentle or polite in his dealing with the local nobility and they killed him for it.
The nobles did like his son, maybe he rubbed them the right way?

yup.....he wanted to "modernise" Perak.....one of the steps taken was to abolish slavery....but this wiill destroy the livelihoods of the orang besar.......You do know, that malays go into the jungle to enslave jakuns and negritos and whatever orang asli you can find inside....

Birch could have done better, be more diplomatic in modernising Perak...but of course, abrasive.

It's inaccurate to portray some anti-british malay figures as heros......because they have got their own agenda to go against the british....also, the british did not attack the Malay states per se, they were invited by the elites themselves to get involved in malay political struggles.

Lu sendiri tak sayang negeri sendiri, cari orang putih kasi campur tangan, maka lu gadai/khianat tanahair sendiri. Mau tuduh, tuduhlah orang sendiri, orang yang gadai negara, bukan british. Very true is today's UMNO vs PPBM VS PAS struggle, anything also can jual, anything also can gadai and compromise for the sake of power. No spine, no values, no virtues.....all orang kecil

This post has been edited by feynman: May 12 2020, 12:14 PM

.... Helang vs pipit. Even foreigner also pipit

kakwen come give comment to prove you are local.

Yes many ktard already know.Already got thread in k about this a few years back I think..

yeah wrong way by trying to remove their songlaps and slavery.

Yet the slave trade.fluorish in the USA.

Whites? Always do something to their advantage.

Please remember first chapter of history :

1) only accept Malaysia interpretation
2) ang moh version always paint themselves as good guy

Jangan persoal if you want score A

Sincerely,
Aku skor Sejarah spm B3

Yea, he was a good guy but too bad it was a different time.

Even America also got civil war because of slave ownership.

Nowadays they on sic the macc and polis on you. A but more civilised. Haha
Didnt Perak lose a sultan over this?

This post has been edited by dickybird: May 12 2020, 12:09 PM

he was too good for us. 😭😭😭

You baru learned? Maharajalela and other Malay aristocrats at the time were tax collecters and slave owners. They used their power and influence to solicit money from people and enslaved a majority orang asli population.

yeap.

Assassination

Birch was killed on 2 November 1875 by followers of a local Malay chief, Dato Maharajalela, including Sepuntum, who speared him to death while he was in the bath-house of his boat, SS Dragon, moored on the Perak river-bank below the Maharajela's house, in Pasir Salak, near today's Teluk Intan (Teluk Anson).[3]

Richard Olaf Winstedt in his "A History of Malaya" on page 226 published in the Journal of the Malaysian Branch of the Royal Asiatic Society, reprinted in 1986, wrote that a Malay deputation entreated with Governor-General Andrew Clarke in Singapore "to prevent the Resident from interfering with religion and custom, from acting without consulting Sultan and chiefs, and from depriving them of their property, namely fugitive slaves and feudal dues." Clarke had already observed on 25 March 1875 that, "I am very much annoyed with Birch and the heads-over-heels way in which he does things; he and I will come to sorrow yet, if he does not mind." On 21 July 1875 Raja Abdullah, in despair, called a meeting of chiefs where after a talk of poisoning Birch accepted the Maharajalela's offer to stab Birch to death.

Dato' Maharajalela, who was the individual chiefly responsible for Birch's death, is regarded by most Perak Malays as a heroic figure who resisted British imperialism. He and the others involved were hanged by the British.

Sultan Abdullah, who was also believed to have some complicity in the assassination, was deposed and exiled to the Seychelles. His arch-rival Raja Yusuf[4] was installed as Sultan in his place.

In the aftermath of the event, the administration shifted to Taiping. A new Resident, Sir Hugh Low, was appointed and went about his administration of Perak in a more diplomatic way. Whilst still banning outright slavery, he gradually phased out debt-slavery and assuaged the feelings of the ruler and chieftains by allowing for adequate monthly compensation to them.

No wonder our education system can not improve

and please hafal nilai nilai murni moral and their definasi word by word.

meanwhile, our History textbook hails the plotter/killer as heroes

Good guy wont survive in politics

Meaning cronyism budaya kita?

ya and the only budaya sampai sekarang x ubah2

All rebel against british in colonial time are spark because geng2 pembesar losing their power and monies..

All except one.. Tok Janggut from pasir puteh kelantan.. a commoner.. fight the brit because they raise tax to the poor

Birch died in 1874.....slavery was abolished by amendment to the constitution in 1865.........

amboi why you so dungu?.....textbook say one thing, make sure you don't write another thing on the exam script lah.....why be lawyer buruk? You mau pandai tunggu after SPM

Yes.....he was exiled......but the fruit of that exile is the tune of the negaraku..........he heard that tune and made it an anthem for Perak

He was murdered because he was rude and disrespectful. The malays were not necessarily aggressive toward the British.

Ada je beberapa pegawai British yang disukai orang melayu. Contohnya Swettenham, Templer etc.

https://www.thepatriots.asia/punca-jww-birch-dibunuh/

Siapa kata? Kan lps tu Sultan kena buang negeri.British very powderful la,if they don't like that Sultan,they will appoint another people as Sultan like what happened in Terengganu and Selangor...

yeap he was rude and disrespectful to the culture back then to songlap, crony and slavery. orang malaysia x suka changes, and only suka doggy that follow whatever the status quo.

can be seen throughout history,

take western countries for example

Martin Luther King - rude to white people by advocate of black rights and ending slavery
Harvey Milk - rude to conservatists straight people by advocate of LGBT rights
Sophie Scholl - rude to hitler and nazi by being anti nazi.

This post has been edited by Ned_Fromthenorth: May 12 2020, 12:30 PM

i read Birch kacau awek melayu?

or i read wrong versi??

Nice to know our colonial masters were our liberators!

Cukur!

Don't trust these "feudal" chiefs....its a reason they are call "feudal".....

Lolololol

Slave trade was outlaw in the us in 1807
Birch try to do the same 70 years later

Django came too late

tHIS 1 IS bRITISH NOT usa

He's the only one got assassinated. Other residents no problem at all.

The problem is good intention, but bad execution. Just like DAP leaders.
It takes a good understanding on social and psychology of targeted community and calculate the best way to execute the plan.

You try advice or even ask old timers to change something obsolete that they used to for decades. They wont budge bcoz of ego.
But if you tell a (made up) story about the benefits of new way experienced by others (trying not to sounds like giving advice), some of them would accept.

based on stuff i have heard. birch was murdered mainly because he was trying to eliminate slavery in perak. he was a good guy that was murdered by local songlapers and then malaysian history books went on to paint him as an evil man. propagandists memang celaka.

because other resident already killed the malay jaguhs and acted fast ..while some still rely on some stupid shit hikayat ..??

Lol you guys must be dreaming..

An angmo come to asia/malaya to liberate local and give freedoms and develop economy

is like

USA invade afghan/Iraq to give them freedom..

Ya he so free that he come to do charity in Malaya 🤣

TS xda common sense

This post has been edited by akutaksempurna: May 12 2020, 12:39 PM

but this is not about changing your car or change your bedsheets. lol i understand where u come from, but a bit bodoh.

you try telling the slaves that is chained, eh u tunggu jap benda2 ni kena cakap baik baik x boleh overnight u be a free man, tahan few more years ye suffer sikit xpe, nanti i dah kawan kawan with your tuan then i suruh die lepaskan u.

This post has been edited by Ned_Fromthenorth: May 12 2020, 12:41 PM

stop getting your worldview from wikipedia, the one-stop site for white imperialism

Is that why songlap and don't bite the hand that feeds you still lives on till today?

ini bukan worldview la, not opinions. is historical fact.

wow.. lot of historian here now..
jww birch is good..commies is good..
what else.. yup..only jap is no good coz they defeat the ccp..

Meanwhile british liberate china from feudal dynasty..

Give medicine really needed by sick chinese.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Opium_War

This

sejarah malaysia about malaysia and british??? ccp pulak masuk

So sape penjahat?

History is written by winner. If you dont understand this fact maybe you should study more

literally

but in this case winner is malaysia wor. so....malaysia history not accurate is true la. hehehehe

I thought he wasnt 100% evil like our school history books like to suggest even when I was still in Form 5. He allegedly protected a slave who took shelter in his home.

But the truth is not black or white. Whether or not Birch was an asshole, or if Raja Abdullah and his chiefs were inhuman slave torturers, i dont think we can safely say that either of them were ever 'heroes'. Both were playing the game of thrones with dirty tricks.

White man's burden.

Stab it budaya, depan or belakang don't matter

lagi stab whewn orang putih mandi naked dalam bath tub. giggity boleh lah main main bebird jap

To say 100% not accurate is not true either.

If you go to USA for example, will their history admit that they "rampas" red indian's land and committed genocide, rape to the local population that time.

Thats why history is written by winner la..

Historian generally do their research by comparing multiple sources unlike you use Wikipedia to spread misinformatiom and racism.

Its true that he tried to abolish some of these local custom, but you think JWW Birch came to do charity not as a conqueror of Malaya??

This post has been edited by akutaksempurna: May 12 2020, 12:49 PM

British excuse la
Important is tin mining revenue all gone to them,to cover south sea bubble lost

We got slavery last time?
Maybe he misunderstood the tradition of the local people.
To him it is slavery but to certain interpretation in certain xxx, it is employment.

So we cannot trust the sos put up by TS.
All got the taint of agenda Y

Malaysian folklore full of backstabbers..

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=4755320&hl=

"Colonialism" and "good" are not on the same universe

slow la abang, berapa kali nak buka tered

uk bukan us

bodoh

Most probably same dupe

the fact that we no longer have slavery in Malaysia tells that things can change. its a matter of how long it takes. Slow, but slow progress nonetheless. Few things Malays do today is taboo 30 or even 20 years ago but have been normalized. Yes, I came from background that value social intelligence and wisdom when doing things. I guess you don't.

BTW, Do you actually think he really care about slaves feelings eh? lol

They never taught this during my time.
Only that they were heroes fighting against colonialism.
Shows education can be manipulated for political ends.
That's why BN/P,N can songlap and still be hailed heroes.

i dunno why you trying to paint the guy that try to abolish slavery as the bad guy because he's doing things too quickly? there is no right time or wrong time to do the right thing.

if you see someone being tortured, will you go oooh slowly la some group culture is torture people. slow progress and maybe in 30-40 years they will give it up. LOL

wtf.

British are not all saint or trying to do things out of the kindness of their heart or charity
but in this case its very clear whose the bad guy.

slave owner vs anti slave owner.

backstabbers exists anywhere, anytime bro.

dead people kenot speak

moreso in malaysia, for some reason. haha

-― Dan Brown, The Da Vinci Code

Its not black and white la 😂😂😂

British morality at that time (especially their bangsawan) cannot be compared to nowadays.

Just because they are against slavery doesnt mean that they dont believe that they are superior than other races..

They see people like chinese and indians like servants, kuli etc. Example Royal Selangor Club (the one jn dataran) back under british rule no local can enter as its only for mat salleh.. And the servant can only be chinese as no dark skin people can enter.. This is not slavery but doesnt sound any different to me than apartheid...

2 wrong doesnt make 1 right.. So it was, it is and it will never be clear like what you said

This post has been edited by akutaksempurna: May 12 2020, 01:08 PM

Pasir Salak and race card. Hrmm

ok. idk how to calculate objectively saying more so in here. But some civilizations unable to go out expanding their empire because for centuries, or even millenia buzy fighting/backstabbing among themselves.

Ya some civilization that think that they are center of the world but in the end kena plundered by european and japanese also 😂

I am sure they dont backstab each other either

This post has been edited by akutaksempurna: May 12 2020, 01:10 PM

TS, what we have here are fundamental disagreements between cultures.

It must be remembered that, since the time of the Sultanate of Malacca, Malays have lived in a feudal society. In this society, the ultimate source of moral authority is the Sultan. Of course, as the Sultan cannot be at all places at all times, some of his moral authority is devolved to several feudal lords who, amongst other things, raise defenses and collect taxes on the authority of the Sultan. The ordinary folk derive their morals and values based on the values of the people above them in the social hierarchy.

Then, here comes Birch, a complete outsider from the social system that has sustained Perak for centuries. Birch came to Perak as Resident in the 1870s, following about 50 years of the complete abolition of slavery throughout the British Empire. The push towards abolishing slavery was, itself, fed by Christian (primarily Quaker) evangelism over two centuries which argued that slavery was un-Christian, as well as post-Enlightenment thought that places value on inalienable rights of man.

The two world-views are fundamentally different. For Birch to attempt to push his world-view onto Perak, what do you think was going to happen? For Birch to subsequently be vilified as the demon who tried to "colonise Malaya" and for his assassins to raised as anti-colonialist heroes is completely logical under the feudalistic world-view propagated by the Malay elite. It is also completely consistent with the desire to perpetuate a feudalistic system where the traditional orang besar still maintain some form of their privileges and position in society today.

meanwhile the rest of british empire use coolies/kuli as a thinly veiled slavery under a different label

TS is just a racist idiot la..

China not feudal system meh?? All those dynasties and so on...

He is not debating about history or the accuracy of it.. Just want to racing

Songlap is our culture since 1875.

isnt we seeing the same thing today? mana boleh accept modernisation... potek potek..

Spot on

Malaysia so ulu meh? No electricity, power, internet ah?

This post has been edited by akutaksempurna: May 12 2020, 01:14 PM

da fk. china feudalistic bullshit can go to hell too. current china is lagi teruk with the ccp winnie pooh poopyhead

instead of admiting our own mistakes of supporting slavery back then, yall trying to protect??

/k give birth to lot of good historians

nice

only ccp is good

others all evil, dun forget to jilat more

i feel like using the culture differences is a cop out excuse to defend the monstrosity done by our forefathers back then.

yes its cultural difference but some culture is more wrong than others. especially when we now have the knowledge and awareness so why cant we point out the mistakes done less we forget about it and repeat it?

germans are so open about the monstrosity done by hitler and nazis, they acknowledge it not try to change the narrative in history books.

another mistakes we can see is by the japanese, they rape and pillage and kills throughout and until today most do not acknowledge the things that happens.

even china also same, they hail their government as king and dont acknowledge that their government policy kills 20-46million people in less than a decade.

even in usa also got, the deep south, the conservatist with their confederate flags flying because oh no they cant kill or lynch black people or own them anymore.



This post has been edited by Ned_Fromthenorth: May 12 2020, 01:19 PM

up to your context lar...

Aiyo history depends on which side liao.
WW2 German soldiers were still gud guys in their eyes becos they were defending their fatherland. Not to be conpused with SS Nazis.

Kucing kata jangan

I wonder china got slavery or not 🤔

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_China

The point is what mistake is there to be admitted...

Its true there might be slavery but its inaccurate to put jww birch as savior.

You cannot compare olden day civilization moral value vs modern day moral values.

If there is slavery back then got so bad like British who made all the indians, malay, chinese, polynesian, africans into kulis or sub class??

This post has been edited by akutaksempurna: May 12 2020, 01:19 PM

I don't think TS is racist lah. He is definitely putting forward a viewpoint opposite to the traditional one we are taught. I don't think this is invalid but we do have to, of course, keep in mind the prevailing social context.

China is a different case, I don't even know which China we're talking about (PRC or ROC), but both of them are still grappling with post-feudal life, this is true. Having said this, Chinese feudalism has been different in its implementation. For one, the Chinese bureaucratic system was highly centralised in the hands of the imperial court. Governors in the provinces tended to be mandarins chosen by an imperial bureaucracy rather than hereditary lords. In some ways, the power of the emperor who, while considered a demi-god, was filtered through mandarins and such who could, and frequently were, picked from the common folk via examinations. It's not the same as traditional Malay feudalism where feudal lordship is hereditary. Birch should have known this, of course, seeing that Malay feudalism appears, in this particular sense, more similar to European feudalism than it does Chinese feudalism.

Anyway, totally different cases.

no need fight la diu. here, have a laugh

china emperor also got harems of 3000 sex slaves and thats disgusting. why cannot compare and point out the shitty things people did back then?

To call JWW Birch a good guy though 🤣

not true? in this case compare JWW birch with that maharajela guy.

one guy try to abolish cronyism, try to abolish slavery, try to modernized feudal system
another, own slaves, crony, songlap, murderer.

which is good guy which is bad guy?

This post has been edited by Ned_Fromthenorth: May 12 2020, 01:23 PM

JWW Birch is like DAP n LGE today?

Want to put debate then put both side of the history loh...

You paint JWW Birch as a good guy.

For me that is very in-accurate as the concept of colonialism etc..

well, whole tahan malayu invasion was a big history scam

pembesar sama pembesar bergaduh adik beradik = they import outsider kautim, then kasi upah tanah tempatan

later cry mather father say orang asing jajah tanah melayu
same nowaday, ada tanah, sell to outsider. later cry mother father locals no land. nothing change

This post has been edited by ~min~: May 12 2020, 01:25 PM