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 RCCB for Water Heater

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stormer.lyn
post Nov 13 2024, 02:35 PM

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QUOTE(Zot @ Nov 13 2024, 10:18 AM)
Why it makes no sense? It is better, isn't it? The wiring is original from developer and I know it is a ring because I checked it myself. There is no voltage problem and it is just normal semi-D house size in Malaysia to concern about voltage drop in wire. I did extend a bit at the back of the house and I pulled another big cable from main DB to another DB I added at the back of the house to supply power for kitchen, air-cond and heaters to rooms/bathrooms at the back of the house. The kitchen is electrical hob, hood and garbage disposer. Developer only provide power points for air-cond and heater to master bedroom only.  doh.gif My friend and I got cables laid down during renovation work.
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It makes no sense to me because it increases cost, increases complexity, increases installation work, increases points of failure, increases the chance of being done wrong (see conduit fill, proper torque for terminals, number of wires into a terminal) and is so unnecessary to do with 4 mm² at 32 A. There's also no benefit of increased current carrying capacity, as your MCB is C32 anyway. And you also say that the area is not that large, so no reason to do it for voltage drop in the wires.

I contend that a simpler system that does the job properly is always better than a complex system.

As for benefit, well it is a fully redundant system since you say the wires are 4 mm². Is this "better"?.... if you think it is better then it is.
stormer.lyn
post Nov 13 2024, 08:31 PM

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QUOTE(Zot @ Nov 13 2024, 04:16 PM)
It is good say when the current in conductor is constantly high for long period. This will lower the wire operating temperature compare to smaller gauge. PVC insulated cable operating at 1x current load at 70C will have service life for 20 years.  biggrin.gif
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Lasting 20 years?!! rclxub.gif

I have installations from 1990 still going strong till today tongue.gif
stormer.lyn
post Nov 18 2024, 06:08 PM

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QUOTE(Zot @ Nov 18 2024, 03:13 PM)
As mentioned if the cable/wire is operating hot at 70C. This is based on electrical engineering formulation. I believe it is more on insulation based on  Arrhenius equation.
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Wait, what? Isn't that equation valid for a chemical reaction, while wires and insulation degrade through a physical process ie overheating?
stormer.lyn
post Nov 22 2024, 05:45 PM

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QUOTE(numbertwo @ Nov 22 2024, 05:05 PM)
Thank you again for your suggestion. 

#1 Finally managed to get one willing electrician (most don't bother a small job like this, dunno why) who agreed to do this.  It was quite a tedious job to replace MCB to RCBO, not as straight-cut as I thought it to be.  He had to find the correct neutral and get it hooked up to the RCBO.  And he too confirmed the heater wire is 4mm². 

#2.  He is in the opine that I should keep it the C32.  Wire size is acceptable to him - matching the C32 requirement but because I'm not sure the original spec of the induction cooker (one induction, one highlight ceramic) he would recommend me to keep it that way.

#3.  Changed to MCB C20.

For all the changes, he took out the wall switch and inspected all the wires in it too just to make sure the wire size is correct.. I guess that's considered a good electrician ?  His last recommendation was to change the DB box from plastic to metal type (wouldn't that be dangerous ?)  and to split the 3P RCCB from 0.1mA into 2 (0.03mA and 0.1mA)..  Will wait for budget then  unsure.gif

All good for now.

user posted image
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Glad that there is some positive progress. I guess electricians do not want to do small jobs because of the opportunity cost.
As for finding the neutral wire, you just have to clamp and see which wire that has the same current of the outgoing live when the heater is On. Should only take a few minutes. Don't know why your guy got stuck there.
MaxGuard has 25 A MCB if you ever want to change the 32 A ones. Can order online.
Metal DBs last longer and won't get brittle like plastic ones, but they can rust. I don't think it is any more dangerous if properly earthed. Unfortunately the 0.03 mA RCCB is a requirement from Suruhanjaya Tenaga, so you'll have to make sure to budget for it some time.
Anyway, I'll try to answer if you post any more questions here.

 

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