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 đŸłď¸â€đŸŒˆ LGBTQ Community, Discussion regarding LGBTQ

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Havoc Knightmare
post Feb 14 2020, 11:01 AM

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I've been around LYN for ages but never been out on this forum, so here am I. In person, I am fairly out with my friends, family members and even some colleagues. I am a 32 year old Chinese guy based in KL. I'm somewhat of an oddity, being gay and socially conservative but not particularly closeted at the same time.

In any case, glad to see a serious thread on the topic. I avoided the previous LGBT thread that existed years ago because I'm not really keen on all the banter. Would be happy to help answer any questions that people have.

For those of you straight guys who are wondering, it is not a 'choice', in the same way that one does not choose to prefer chocolate over strawberry icecream. And I don't think anything 'caused' us to be this way. I LOLed at the wrestling bit because I never heard of anyone turning gay because of that.

Personally, I don't like to be 'identified' as gay by my social circle because it is just a small part of my life. Like I wouldn't want to be exclusively identified as being 'male' or 'Chinese'.

This post has been edited by Havoc Knightmare: Feb 14 2020, 11:06 AM
Havoc Knightmare
post Feb 18 2020, 10:00 AM

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QUOTE(internaldisputes @ Feb 14 2020, 11:18 AM)
We appreciate that! Thank you so much!
You're welcome! Haha non-binary is fairly new term for me too. Have a nice day too!
Hey there! Yeah, my friend taught me to always choose our battles because sometimes people are just so set in their ways and there is no way we get to change their views. I like to remind myself that our society as a whole has become a little more accepting towards LGBT and according to Pew Research Center it is true although just marginally.

I agree about not having to come out. It's a personal choice and I only come out to people on need to know basis. That being said, I always post LGBT materials on my Whatsapp updates so everyone in my contacts should be able to connect the dots.
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Yup, I can imagine the battle being a lot tougher for you as the Malay community is a lot more conservative and religious in general. Have you ever felt like migrating?

QUOTE(hellkvr @ Feb 17 2020, 04:32 PM)
Hi All,

i wonder if this case happend to any of you guys, my friend, once a very straight man, was crush when he find out his gf cheating behind him, in later he become 100% gay, how? now he always hangout with all his gym fren which i know they are gay too. wonder how brain trigger this.
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I have a few friends who 'discovered' that they are gay through this way. I can't explain it properly except to say that maybe their homosexuality was latent, and it's a case of 'never try, never know' like you don't know what you like until you've experienced it for yourself. They tend to be the minority though, with most of us knowing it inherently.
Havoc Knightmare
post Feb 18 2020, 10:34 AM

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QUOTE(internaldisputes @ Feb 18 2020, 10:12 AM)
I used to think about migrating before. I did fill up a form to become a Canadian PR. But it was mainly because I was pretty lonely back then— little to no friends, poor relationship with my family, etc. Now that all the situations improve, I don't feel like wanting to go anywhere else. Besides, I'm not that adventurous haha. Moving from Perak (my hometown) to KL is all I could muster. How about you?
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Which part of Perak are you from?

My life in KL has been quite comfortable all these years, so no plans to move anywhere actually. Ignoring the political noise, life in Malaysia is quite pleasant as compared to many other places, even as a gay. I'm not very sociable, but has got better over the years though I'm not keen on mixing with the pretentious, superficial gay community that you typically find in KL. Am hoping to know more like minded folks around here.

This post has been edited by Havoc Knightmare: Feb 18 2020, 10:35 AM
Havoc Knightmare
post Feb 18 2020, 11:47 AM

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QUOTE(internaldisputes @ Feb 18 2020, 11:01 AM)
Hi! Welcome! biggrin.gif
Oh, I'm from Taiping originally. I go back home for Raya once or twice a year only. 

That's great! I'm happy for you. I wish I can tune out all the local news sometimes. but maybe I have a news addiction or something because I just can't. It always leave me feeling anxious afterwards because they hardly report anything positive these days. Anyway. you're spot on about the superficiality and pretentiousness of our community. I'm still on Grindr and I have seen and experienced so many unbelievable things in there. Discrimination, racism, bullying, etc... My theory is that we as gay people we were subjected to a lot of emotional abuse growing up and most of us still hold on to that negative energy/trauma. A lot needs to be done to reverse this, starting with teaching ourselves about self-acceptance.

Maybe this is something you can participate in? Statistically there should be hundreds of thousands of gay people in Malaysia and most of them should be in KL. Finding like minded people is maybe hard, but not impossible haha.
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Nice place, and all the folks that I've met from there are really nice and simple people. If only KL folks had that honesty and simplicity.

I think it's because the community has been kept underground all these years that we revert to our primal nature... a lawless community with no structure of morals to police what we should and should not do. Hopefully as society becomes more accepting, and LGBT becomes more mainstream very slowly, the LGBT community will start to reflect broader society in terms of values. I don't use Grindr as I think its possibly the worst app out there for us.

As for news, I follow closely due to work and personal interest but I don't allow it to affect me personally. Maybe because I know that alot of the politics are just sandiwara, with self interest coming first. Maybe people don't dare to say it, but Malaysian politicians are alot more liberal on LGBT issues than what they let people believe. After all, the current PM candidates to succeed Tun M are not straight but no one dares to say it out openly.

Have you been for that group's gathering before? I'm usually quite apprehensive about joining such large high profile groups.

This post has been edited by Havoc Knightmare: Feb 18 2020, 11:51 AM
Havoc Knightmare
post Feb 18 2020, 05:58 PM

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QUOTE(darkmusses @ Feb 18 2020, 02:14 PM)
Just realised not many able to explain and put in good word for the LGBT community. Keep up the good work smile.gif

Moreover most forumer here always have an illusion of grandeur or perception in their replies - see the way they respond on other topics when you browse through all of their comments

It's been awhile since I read proper comment; especially from Havoc Knightmare and internaldisputes. Appreciate for an elaborate and extensive view
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Thanks. I enjoy such discussion and this forum turns me off sometimes so it's quite a breath of fresh air to see this thread being steered in matured way.

QUOTE(internaldisputes @ Feb 18 2020, 02:45 PM)
Yeah, Taiping is pretty awesome. Maybe I will retire there one day. We'll see haha.

That's a good theory too! Good for you for not using Grindr. The only reason I'm there is to do some outreach work. I have to promise myself not to spend more than an hour a day on it otherwise I'd go insane.

I dream of the day when a politician would openly support LGBT—perhaps run as the first openly gay MP— however everyone knows that would be a political suicide. Those who did in the past like Zaid Ibrahim, are nobodies in the government.  sweat.gif  Oh I've heard rumours about Anwar and even Azmin from my friends but whether they are gay or not, it's kinda irrelevant because I doubt they gonna do anything to advance our cause anytime soon.

I haven't been to that meetup specifically. The gathering that I participate in mostly consists of Malay non-professionals so they are a lot to deal with haha. But I still love the people I meet there. Another gathering group is People Like Us Hangout (PLU). They actually won a Human Rights Award last year for their effort in community building. So there is no shortage of groups that a LGBT person can join, despite all the restrictions in place. I understand not wanting to participate in any of these though because they usually gonna ask to submit our personal details and not many want to do that because they are discreet.
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What sort of outreach work are you doing on Grindr? I find it hard to imagine doing anything productive there. Haha.

I'm OK with Anwar or Azmin not advancing our course, it's fine as long as they leave us alone. Like everyone here is saying, it's asking for too much to expect a LGBT friendly PM, so one that does not actively persecute us is good enough for me at least. The previous government had one obviously butch lesbian minister, so it seems that politically being gay is possible in supposedly conservative Malaysia. Even our neighbouring countries are not as 'progressive' as we are in that sense..

I am not particularly discreet since I am out to all my friends but I just feel uncomfortable being associated with an overtly LGBT group. I consider myself to be just a regular guy that happens to be gay, like I don't want to be part of a group to express my Chinese ethnicity, if that analogy makes sense. I just want to make friends and network.

QUOTE(ashangel39 @ Feb 18 2020, 03:40 PM)
I think it's a bit hard for our society to become more accepting especially with a certain group ruling the country. The religion card will always be played. No doubt that people are generally more accepting but I don't think we'll ever get to a point where we are not frown upon or be made to sound like a freaking disease in this country.

Politicians for sure can't be as liberal as they would want to be as they might lose support from those who are not as liberal as them. They of course would have to go with the most support that they can get or they might lose their seat.
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I'm not disagreeing with you, just that looking at how rapidly Saudi Arabia liberalized in recent years gives me hope. It used to be that the conservatism here was spread from the Middle East. Now that they are going into reverse gear, hopefully that eases their influence here. Once people get accustomed to the idea that we are just normal people, it will help. I've come out to old school homophobic guys and took quite a lot of ignorant questions ("Why don't you try it with a girl to know for sure") but it got better with time.
Havoc Knightmare
post Jul 27 2020, 10:19 AM

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QUOTE(internaldisputes @ Jul 27 2020, 09:47 AM)
A florist ‘refused’ to make bouquets for a gay wedding. So the town decided to end discrimination once and for all
Source: https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/07/26/alask...st-gay-wedding/

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A small Alaskan city has unanimously voted for a new law protecting LGBT+ people from discrimination after a local florist allegedly refused to make the wedding bouquets for a gay couple.

Ketchikan, population 8,289, is a seaside city on Alaska’s southeastern coast popular with passing cruise ships.

It’s known for its wildlife – which includes bears, wolves and eagles – and, as of July 16, for being the fourth Alaskan city to pass sweeping non-discrimination law for its LGBT+ residents.

The local law – which was passed unanimously, with all seven of the city council’s members in favour – came about after a florist, Heavenly Creations, allegedly refused to take an order for a same-sex wedding.

After a high-profile demonstration outside Heavenly Creations, the city-wide ordinance was proposed.

It follows in the wake of the US Supreme Court’s historic ruling that made it illegal to fire workers for being gay or transgender – and goes several steps further, by also banning discrimination against LGBT+ people in housing or public businesses.

Heather Dalin, the owner of Heavenly Creations, denies discriminating against a same-sex couple.

“I have personally made and delivered bouquets to the members of LBGTQ community on numerous occasions,” she said at a July 2 council meeting. “We have not, and do not discriminate.”

But she went on to clarify that forcing her to make bouquets for LGBT+ weddings would violate her own right to exercise her religious beliefs.

“When it comes to the holy sacrament of marriage, God’s word is clear,” she said, K Too reported.

“Marriage is one of the seven sacraments where the Lord Jesus Christ is present. For you to pass an unnecessary ordinance to try and force myself to participate in a ceremony that violates not only God’s holy truth, but also strips me of my rights as an American tax-paying, law-abiding citizen is unreasonable.”

After hearing her objections, the Ketchikan city council passed the new non-discrimination laws anyway.

Museum curator Ryan McHale also testified at the meeting, arguing that religion has long been used to justify discrimination.

“Much like their pro-slavery predecessors, segregationists during the Jim Crow era cited scripture as justification for maintaining racial segregation and inequality,” McHale said.

“There is little that distinguishes the religious freedom claim of today from those of the segregationists who argued that they should not be forced to hire, serve or associate with African Americans or Native Americans.”

The new law will come into effect in mid-August, when Ketchikan will join the Alaskan cities of Sitka, Juneau and Anchorage in having laws to protect its LGBT+ residents.


Added on
God, I hope the florist is going to be okay getting her business flooded with orders from LGBT people after this.  sad.gif  tongue.gif
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Honestly, I'm conflicted over this sort of law because it is politically charged. I believe that businesses should have the right to choose their customers every much as customers have the right to choose which business to spend their money on. In this case, the business is rejecting LGBT business, but would there be a similar outcry if the business rejects Neo-Nazis instead? I surely wouldn't want to force a business which rejects me for who I am, to serve me. I much rather give business to someone who actually respects me for who I am. Maybe that's because we live in cities where we have a lot of choices of businesses to patronise, though.
Havoc Knightmare
post Sep 28 2020, 07:44 PM

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QUOTE(cwv @ Sep 28 2020, 06:25 PM)
I'm working in Taiwan now. I know they accept it here but I am still Malaysian and my parents are still in Malaysia. However even though officially the country accept, but society is still biased. Especially the corporates. At my high position the expectation is still to have "normal" family. I guess to please my family and bosses I should simply tolerate being married to a girl just for the sake of complying.
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Life is too short to care about pleasing others instead of yourself. You don't want to wonder and regret when you are old and dying what is it like to be with someone you love.
Havoc Knightmare
post Apr 16 2021, 09:22 PM

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QUOTE(leftycall9 @ Apr 16 2021, 08:45 PM)
Prioritize career= lesbian?
And when a housewife dumped by her husband then left alone with her 10 kids where are these smarta$$?

I'm always shouting for career building before settling down for women. Relying on men's money only is never smart decision at all. But of course bigots disagree because when women holding the economical power for herself they will lose the control over her.

Anyway glad the article already been took down.
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Its actually sort of positively discriminating lesbians if you think about it. Perhaps they got the direction of causation wrong, in the sense that they notice successful career women being lesbians. Therefore they infer that a woman being successful will 'become' lesbian. When maybe its the other way around, that a lesbian in Malaysia is less likely to be bogged down with expectations of sacrificing her career for childcare, and is free to devote her time to her career like how society expects of men.

 

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