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 PPSMI: Think of future of Malay community, says Mahathir

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letitsnow
post Feb 6 2020, 12:18 PM

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QUOTE(iGamer @ Feb 6 2020, 12:07 PM)
Science terminology will not be taught in normal English class.
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if you bother about science term in English, then dual language programme (DLP) is already addressed that. they still could learn in mother tongue with awareness of terminologies in English.

Still, back then i dont have DLP either, bcoz it's not that hard to figure it out, or open the dictionary (today just google, even better!), to look for an English term. I personally think if a person have a hard time with malay to english terminology, STEM is not his/er path.
letitsnow
post Feb 6 2020, 12:38 PM

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QUOTE(nasi lemak 20 sen @ Feb 6 2020, 12:27 PM)
My take on PPSMI.

This PPSMI will fail. Will last as long as atuk in charge.

This is a huge political prize to be scored for BN, PAS. Even PH themselves when atuk retired.

There are 2 groups, progressive and conservative in fight now.

Progressive wants English, liberal etc. Think Zaid Ibrahim kind of people.

Conservative group of course no need explanation. Think Katak Ibrahim type of people.

The only solution to improve English is to introduce SRJE and SMJE which stand for "Sekolah Rendah Jenis English" and Sekolah Menengah Jenis English".

Conservative group won't go to SRJE or SMJE.

Meanwhile progressive group (READ: Malay) will have option in English school. The non-Malay too have option to join English school.

30 years later, we can smoke Singapore 9 street far away.
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which political side doesn't really matter when you can see right now, i mean right now how great the english proficiency of our PPSMI fresh graduates. isn't there a study posted yesterday about 60% grads unemployed after a year in industry? So?

Some people still believe in PPSMI myth? lol

This post has been edited by letitsnow: Feb 6 2020, 12:40 PM
letitsnow
post Feb 6 2020, 01:46 PM

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QUOTE(duHwaN @ Feb 6 2020, 01:24 PM)
Well, in the thread context... it will be a tool to acquire knowledge.
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High school science and math is pretty basic, which we have extensive reading materials that written in mother tongue for decades. For those who pursuing in STEM, which our higher education institutions use English as medium shouldn't be a problem to our undergrads to acquire other advance science and math knowledge beyond varsities.

People don't understand, we already have PPSMI in universities in all our STEM programmes since forever. So your premise doesn't hold.

This post has been edited by letitsnow: Feb 6 2020, 01:47 PM
letitsnow
post Feb 6 2020, 04:13 PM

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QUOTE(Spear2 @ Feb 6 2020, 03:04 PM)
At primary school level more yes for math than science, it is about the symbols, logical operation, and basic understanding, but as you progress into high school you learn fundamental concept and definition. These words are defined in English more than they were in BM. This is very important because concepts and definitions are basic structures which you used in higher learning. It is expected that you are not troubled by the jargon and precise definition, but only the knowledge and learning thru reasoning and argument. If you are troubled, then your learning will be reduced.

How do you introduce these math and science definitions/concepts in an English class then?
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Bruh, EST (English in Science and Tech) subject last time already addressed this particular problem. doh.gif

You talk like this subject never exist in higher secondary school. lol. which means pre-PPSMI there's no problem whatsoever.

like i said, PPSMI is redundant when we already have EST. It's borderline discriminatory to student who a bit obtuse on language but excellent in science in school when you carry science in non-mother tongue. within 11 years should give them ample time to improve English and have chance to pursue in STEM later.

This post has been edited by letitsnow: Feb 6 2020, 04:18 PM
letitsnow
post Feb 6 2020, 04:50 PM

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QUOTE(Spear2 @ Feb 6 2020, 04:36 PM)
So since have EST and you think it is sufficient because there is an 11 years of opportunity leaning which you are sure it is good enuf?
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yes. if we talking about familiarize students with (a) comprehension, and (b) explaining certain mechanism eloquently in English; which I think its what most people is struggling about, EST should solve that problem.

And then the problem about not learning science jargon in English is trivial issue in my opinion. I mean, how hard can it be to figure out that jisim is mass and nyahpecutan is deceleration, does anyone have any harder example?

If wanna improve English, then improve the way we teach English, not by meddling with other subjects.

This post has been edited by letitsnow: Feb 6 2020, 04:52 PM
letitsnow
post Feb 6 2020, 06:36 PM

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QUOTE(blanket84 @ Feb 6 2020, 05:45 PM)
Of course it sounds simple when you’re giving two example. But when there are thousands of science term in English, it isn’t simple anymore.

Keseimbangan terma, legap, bebuli, pelakuran, peleburan, pengewapan, pemejaluwapan, perolakan, sinaran, haba pendam tetap (permanent bury heat? laugh.gif), muatan pendam haba, malar, bendalir, tolok, pembiasan, pemantulan, perambatan, cembung, cekung, satah, berserenjang, sudut genting, logamaya.

I just went through two chapters of form 4 fizik and i already found so much term that you don’t use in conversational english nor in conversational BM and you might have hard time to translate and re-memorize.
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Believe it or not, I could give English equivalent for each term you mentioned. But of course that would defeat the purpose since I'm already know in the first place. But in student shoes, what they can do is open up dictionary, or ask around, or keep reading more materials to a point they reach epiphany; like how they usually do when learning English on other non-science related stuff.

That learning process is so similar with non-science related to a point might just improve their way of learning English than making another whole new programme to address that petty issue.
letitsnow
post Feb 6 2020, 07:15 PM

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QUOTE(blanket84 @ Feb 6 2020, 06:48 PM)
Well most non science subjects use word that are commonly used in conversational english. So to translate them isn’t that hard.

Like you said, since you already go through the transition phase and learned the subject in depth, it is easy for you to translate all the words that i listed. But for kids in school who’s trying to read references in english or to watch documentary in english, they will be having hard time to understand what is being explained.

To be honest, if the notes i read just now didn’t come with diagrams, it would take some time for me to find equivalent words in english for the BM words i listed above.

But i am an engineer, so equivalent words to be substituted alone would be enough for me to understand, but for students, the might have to reread the whole chapter to understand, not to mention the time to memorize the new terms.
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Nope, I'm still inclined its easy. Even today when we have Wikipedia and google translate. It's no longer as hard as those days, which still to me not a frustrating experience.

When you stumble upon certain jargon, you're found it in sentence, or with units, or with related math formula. Which should give a hint what the jargon is about no matter how rare the jargon is. hmmm... OKlah i understand, maybe its hard for you. But to me its not that hard to figure out, which i hope not hard for other student as well.

This post has been edited by letitsnow: Feb 6 2020, 07:17 PM
letitsnow
post Feb 6 2020, 09:08 PM

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QUOTE(hakimix @ Feb 6 2020, 08:24 PM)
reason why people got such prejudice when some try to practice their English

straight kena cop fake/poyo Malay

sure if you speak leweh I,you I,you like that it's understandable people don't like it

but when it's bahasa baku mixed with some English technical terminologies also considered wrong lel

thinking it's rojak or sumthin
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Manada. Either you bullshitting or you mixed with the wrong people. When I was in U, some of us tried to speak English between course-mates. At worst, we just mocked in a fun way but nothing destructive. because we know good command in English would be easy for us onwards.

If you talking about extremists in FB who mocked people not writing in Malay, well extremists exists in all part of community. Some chinese-educated minded people also mocked their so-called 'banana' counterparts, which is a form of pejorative word in nature.

This post has been edited by letitsnow: Feb 6 2020, 09:08 PM
letitsnow
post Feb 6 2020, 09:15 PM

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QUOTE(ihm11 @ Feb 6 2020, 08:21 PM)
how does teaching a subject in engrand make sum1 gud in engrand when he doesn't have a gud grounding to begin with?

if i dun understand polish, u can teach me every subject under the sun in polish and i still wont know shit
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Believe it or not, most problems with our fresh graduates being unemployed linguistic-wise has nothing to do with lack of understanding English in STEM, it's just poor English in general.

Mahathir basically solving a non-issue, or barking up the wrong tree.

This post has been edited by letitsnow: Feb 6 2020, 09:16 PM

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