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 PPSMI: Think of future of Malay community, says Mahathir

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duHwaN
post Feb 6 2020, 01:24 PM

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QUOTE(Zaryl @ Feb 6 2020, 01:04 PM)
English is not a measure of intelligence, rather a measure of communication only
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Well, in the thread context... it will be a tool to acquire knowledge.
duHwaN
post Feb 6 2020, 02:13 PM

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QUOTE(letitsnow @ Feb 6 2020, 01:46 PM)
High school science and math is pretty basic, which we have extensive reading materials that written in mother tongue for decades. For those who pursuing in STEM, which our higher education institutions use English as medium shouldn't be a problem to our undergrads to acquire other advance science and math knowledge beyond varsities.

People don't understand, we already have PPSMI in universities in all our STEM programmes since forever. So your premise doesn't hold.
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There would be a case how many can successfully adapt from BM to English without falling too far behind.

Also, there would be a question of the quality of our own material, speed to update vs. what is available out there. Cloistered environment is not very good for learning something so universal...

make English an option, and see how many will opt for it. then compare the performance level between the 2 group.

This post has been edited by duHwaN: Feb 6 2020, 02:28 PM
duHwaN
post Feb 6 2020, 02:40 PM

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QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Feb 6 2020, 02:34 PM)
Why not all speak Bahasa?
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because they all will still need to learn to speak english to be successful on a larger platform?
duHwaN
post Feb 6 2020, 02:44 PM

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QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Feb 6 2020, 02:42 PM)
So Ali, Ahkaw and Muthu must only speak in English?
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Not saying that.

From an efficiency point of view, learning english would be the most efficient in terms of effort to gain.

BM is an indulgence, some may not be able to afford (learning capacity)
duHwaN
post Feb 6 2020, 02:51 PM

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QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Feb 6 2020, 02:49 PM)
I only speak English (mostly) at work. Life is not just about work. I dont speak English at kedai nasi campur Ali, workshop Ahkaw or kedai runcit Muthu.
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well because we indulged and picked BM to be the compulsory language

limited resources demand efficient use of what is available.

This post has been edited by duHwaN: Feb 6 2020, 02:52 PM
duHwaN
post Feb 6 2020, 03:11 PM

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QUOTE(quadcube @ Feb 6 2020, 03:07 PM)
Ya right, Japan have 9 years of English classes in their national edu. Problem is they memorize to score the exam instead of understanding them.
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if we have the work rate(culture) of japan, no speaking engrand oso no problem
duHwaN
post Feb 6 2020, 03:12 PM

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QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Feb 6 2020, 03:11 PM)
What limited?
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learning capacity... time.

not everyone can be multilingual comfortably.
duHwaN
post Feb 6 2020, 03:15 PM

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QUOTE(aliesterfiend @ Feb 6 2020, 03:14 PM)
No lah. Schools now teaches 2+1 languages already.
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and are the students mastering all of them?

teaching is one thing... the result is another
duHwaN
post Feb 6 2020, 03:27 PM

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QUOTE(gundamsp01 @ Feb 6 2020, 03:26 PM)
japan is a country which heavy on innovation and production, they produce goods and tech that are wanted by the rest of the world and countries want to learn the knowledge from them.

They are fine to stick with their own language, people will learn their language to get their knowledge or work with them.

What Msia can give to the world? So far, Msia only famous for its multi lingual society, if you lose this as well, what Msia can give to the world which the world demands for it?

Forgot to mention, due to Japanese's inability to be globalized, their economy always stuck in a deflation stage, you can take a look their bank is charging interest and how atm works there.
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malaysia had an early edge over our neighbours because of our better than usual standard english in this region. speaking in terms of attracting fdi... not so applicable nowadays
duHwaN
post Feb 6 2020, 03:32 PM

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QUOTE(jamilselamat @ Feb 6 2020, 03:27 PM)
As a kid, I agreed with PPSMI.

What I learned as I get older and start working though, is that it is a BAD POLICY.

Why? Because it makes things more difficult for kids to understand Science and Mathematics. It increases the hurdle to comprehension and discriminates against the linguistically static kids who otherwise could have understood and memorize things. Basically, cutting off more Malays from medicine and tech.

What I learned as an adult is that, if you are exceptional in your field, people will accomodate to you no matter what language you speak.

Let there be more good doctors who understand mostly Malay instead of just a handful who are either only good at the language but not the actual subject matter, or are so good that they run away to work overseas instead of here.
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basically lower the hurdle (standard), so more can pass through...

we can probably keep the BM option, but if they cannot grasp it in English early.. likelihood they are not going to be very good in what they are going to do. Of course, there will be exceptions...
duHwaN
post Feb 6 2020, 03:38 PM

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QUOTE(jamilselamat @ Feb 6 2020, 03:35 PM)
The lack of reference and translated works is because the Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka(DBP) only sit on their asses all day not doing their job on anything thats not art.

The Japanese has very hardworking translation agencies who converted countless books on countless subjects. You wont find a Malay version of The Divine Comedy, but you can find them in Japanese: thats how diverse they are.

The DBP should step up their game.
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i won't trust art trained DBP staff to translate science materials. probably going to find a lot of "interesting" translation....
duHwaN
post Feb 6 2020, 03:38 PM

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QUOTE(jamilselamat @ Feb 6 2020, 03:37 PM)
DO NOT confuse the 'standard of language' with 'standard of subject'. Those two are very different things.

You want an English proficient doctor who can only work at clinics, or a Malay only researcher who found the cure to cancer?
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Your latter would be the exception I mentioned earlier

This post has been edited by duHwaN: Feb 6 2020, 03:39 PM
duHwaN
post Feb 6 2020, 03:52 PM

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QUOTE(gundamsp01 @ Feb 6 2020, 03:50 PM)
why would you say so? What language you speak in your working environment, if you in glc or gov agency, then i have no comment
in my corporate world, i have rejected so many who cant speak english, and reject promotion to those who can't speak english in a board meeting
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he is probably referring to advanced grammar, which would not be necessary in science subjects in this case.
duHwaN
post Feb 6 2020, 03:55 PM

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QUOTE(jamilselamat @ Feb 6 2020, 03:51 PM)
Have you heard of medical tourism?

There are certain countries in this world which doesnt have English as main language, but because they are good enough, and the Americans and British charged too expensively, have many people going there for medical procedures instead.

People like you look too far over the fence that you forgot the mess on the ground right where you're stepping on, or even a gold mine for that matter.
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you do realize that scenario is a compromise... not a first choice, don't ya.

and these competent non western doctors are probably more of an exception than a norm among their (immediate) peers.

This post has been edited by duHwaN: Feb 6 2020, 03:59 PM
duHwaN
post Feb 6 2020, 04:05 PM

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QUOTE(zack9999 @ Feb 6 2020, 04:00 PM)
Maths and Science terms are mostly originated from Latin. We should teach these subjects in Latin.
What if China catches up in few years? Learn the terms in Mandarin? What we should do is to improve the teaching of English in English. Introduce Communication skill as subject in school.
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we learn whatever language that has the highest concentration of knowledge (that would be English at the moment)

I kinda remember from tamadun islam class, that the golden age of islam came after a time muslim scholars learnt greek and tap extensively into their knowldge
duHwaN
post Feb 6 2020, 04:39 PM

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QUOTE(homerthewhopper @ Feb 6 2020, 04:33 PM)
No point arguing in k

Give facts also don't care as long as the move is "progressive"
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well was it due to english... or was it due to our tendencies to lower standards when things gets a bit difficult?
duHwaN
post Feb 6 2020, 05:13 PM

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QUOTE(bumpo @ Feb 6 2020, 05:01 PM)
i'm out of touch. is english subject still considered not mandatory where if you fail it, you dont auto fail your whole spm like bahasa? hmm.gif
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our standard of english... never studied for it, even for spm still gets an A
duHwaN
post Feb 6 2020, 05:21 PM

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QUOTE(WallMaker @ Feb 6 2020, 05:19 PM)
may I know why come from pakistan also can count as malay?
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Constitution wording allows anyone to masuk Melayu

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