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 LYN Christian Fellowship Thread Ver 15

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TSunknown warrior
post Oct 8 2019, 12:47 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 8 2019, 12:44 PM)
That is a very good question Unknown Warrior.

I reckon one can be saved under such circumstances, provided one is baptised first and with our prayers together with the prayers of our brethren, whom are already i)n the Kingdom of Heaven in the presence of our Father.
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Perhaps that is the Catholic's doctrine but I'm wondering where the Bible says something about the confession of the mouth.


Romans 10:10 (KJV) - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 8 2019, 12:57 PM

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QUOTE(azriqii @ Oct 8 2019, 12:55 PM)
Infant baptism is not biblical.
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Let us not go at each other though we may disagree on Catholic doctrine.

Roman Catholic has been quite friendly with all of us since last Christian Fellowship.




TSunknown warrior
post Oct 8 2019, 01:04 PM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Oct 8 2019, 12:59 PM)
Q. If salvation is by grace alone, i.e., none deserve it, then why is it up to the choice of man to receive it, as if God needs our permission to save us?
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I think has very much to do with the matter of free will.

I would be bold enough to say God didn't create us without giving us the will to decide.

The evidence of why I say this? Adam & Eve fell.




TSunknown warrior
post Oct 8 2019, 01:08 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 8 2019, 01:05 PM)
I am definately not an expert in Catholic doctrine but intercession is clearly found in scriptures. However the initial question was related to a sickness of an unsound mind, right ? Confession from an unsound mind, now that I've never experienced before.
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Perhaps you can imagine....if one has parents or grand parents or any relative who are not saved but has this mind disability.

How lah? I've been praying on this.



TSunknown warrior
post Oct 8 2019, 01:21 PM

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QUOTE(Roman Catholic @ Oct 8 2019, 01:15 PM)
It is possible bro., for everything is possible for the one who believes.

I remember fighting the evil spirit before with our Lord's Prayer and verses in the Holy Bible only and that took a solid 3/4 of a hour to finish. However the subsequent exorcisms was completed on a shorter time frame as I called upon everyone I could think of in heaven. Thank goodness everyone replied. 😊
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??? but that is exorcism. Different scenario.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 9 2019, 10:10 AM

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QUOTE(KLthinker91 @ Oct 9 2019, 06:52 AM)
I can't believe I'm doing this, but I have to say something against this "anti-life insurance" business.

Life insurance is not "fearing death", or "depending on someone else besides Jesus to save you", it is merely a financial arrangement to take care of your family's earthly needs when you're gone. And your family is also an extension of the Church, since they are probably fellow Christians. Taking care of your family therefore is also Christian work. In fact I would say there are plenty of verses in the Bible which prove it is one of the most important responsibilities of Christians. But I dislike quoting verses, and I'm sure many others here can provide them.

Even if they are non-Christians, the societal norm is that you have a responsibility to take care of them. By doing so, you demonstrate a good testimony to non-Christians that a Christian is a person of good character and a good member of society, and that is also a form of missionary work. (There is also Biblical support for this.)

Don't think that Jesus has no idea about finance, or that he doesn't care about family. We are commanded to be fruitful in both areas, to spend our money on preaching the Word (growing the Church externally, through missionary work), to take care of current Church members and to multiply (growing the Church internally).

Money is needed in this world to further the work of the Church. It is not to be eschewed and avoided. If we don't generate it, it has to come from somewhere.

No, we cannot only depend on "faith" to take care of the financial needs. That kind of faith is testing God. God never intended us to sit back, hold out our hands, ask for money to drop from the sky and call that a "miraculous blessing". We are supposed to do our best and trust God to provide by turning our best efforts into something beneficial. THAT is practical application of faith.

Life insurance provides your wife and children with the resources they need to grow up to be useful members of the Church. If you don't provide, someone else has to. Probably the Church itself, since it is one of the Church's responsibilities to care for its members. So what have you really accomplished by avoiding life insurance, other than to transfer your burden to other Christians?

This isn't prosperity gospel, BTW. Prosperity gospel focuses on enriching yourself. This is about being good stewards of the resources which belongs to God, which is not just the Church offerings but also ourselves, our money, time, and effort.

Nor am I promoting any investment-linked insurance products. Investment-linked products are generally very poor financial investments.
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Nothing wrong with buying life insurance, it's not a sin anyway.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 9 2019, 10:32 AM

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Yeeck, can you lessen your this fighting in support of catholic doctrine in here?
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 9 2019, 10:35 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 10:34 AM)
Only when people don't post misinformation on Catholic doctrine here.
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There will always be disagreement on catholic doctrine in this thread mainly because it's protestant.


TSunknown warrior
post Oct 9 2019, 10:54 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 10:36 AM)
Not only with Catholic doctrine but also with your doctrine, I can see.
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We have many groups in here, it is expected to have disagreement but that is between protestant's argument.

What I don't want are the obvious gap of doctrine between Catholics and Protestant

TSunknown warrior
post Oct 9 2019, 11:33 AM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 11:30 AM)
You mean prosperity gospel, hyper-grace are not obvious gaps? Fine..
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I find it weird that people like to put their own words into my mouth, something I don't teach or say.

problem has always been on comprehension.

They insist in their own assumptions.

I can test this on you and see whether you are going to put your words into my mouth



--------------------------------------------------


There is no such thing as prosperity gospel, the gospel has always been on the grace of Christ.

However there is prosperity as a result of the gospel and the word prosperity basically mean to thrive and it's not about money.

the word abundance of grace is in the bible and is legit. Hyper is the word derived from the greek hooper which is the same meaning.


---------------------------------------------------


Go ahead, what are you going to say?

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 9 2019, 11:38 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 9 2019, 12:03 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 11:59 AM)
That's between you and the other Protestants, I won't interfere. Just giving an example. Another thing I recalled being different between you and the rest are the 10 Commandments. What is your position on that?
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not my position but the Bible's


2 Corinthians 3:6 (KJV)

who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

With that being said, in the new covenant, we look to Christ and no longer the law. Why? as this verse explains.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 9 2019, 01:02 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 12:18 PM)
But others will point to ‘If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments’  (Matt. 19:17).
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So that you know, you cannot come to God via God's OT commandment.

Galatians 2:16
know that a man is not justified by works of the Law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law, because by works of the Law no one will be justified.

Galatians 3:25
Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 9 2019, 01:04 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 12:45 PM)
And another:

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
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Because Only Jesus Christ alone qualify to fulfill it.


It's weird that opponent of this always do not understand this.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 9 2019, 01:11 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 01:08 PM)
True, no one denies only Christ can fulfill all. But note well, certain things not fulfilled yet such as His Second Coming. Heaven and earth has not passed away yet.
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but the law in effect has been fulfilled by Christ and it's finished.

The cross is the evidence.

His 2nd coming does not mean the law is still in effect for believers.

because if it still is, Christ died for nothing.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 9 2019, 02:03 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 01:59 PM)
This is where you differ with the rest. For you all the Law has been fulfilled and finished, not differentiating between ceremonial and moral laws. I can go in further details how the Catholic position is more sensible and in harmony with Scripture, while yours is making verses of Scripture seems like contradicting one another.

The Catholic truth is summed up in two simple and essential truths. 1) By our own selves, we indeed cannot fulfil the Commandments. Jesus Christ said,"Without Me, you can do nothing" (Jn 15:5). 2) With the grace of Jesus Christ, we CAN and must fulfil the Commandments. In the very same passage, "I am the vine, you are the branches, he that abideth in me and I in him, the same beareth much fruit." "In this is my Father glorified, that you bring forth very much fruit, and become my disciples (Jn 15:8). And St Paul says "I can do all these things in him who strengtheneth me" (Phil 4:13).

When St Paul says "we are not under the Law", not as if we are allowed to break the Law like committing idolatry, adultery, etc, but by the grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ, we are empowered to fulfill the Law out of love, thus the Law is not a burden for those who love God, but is indeed a burden for those who rejects Christ and does not have the grace to obey the Law. "What then, shall we sin, because we are not under the Law, but under grace? God forbid!"

Next, how to obtain grace? By prayer and the Sacraments instituted by Christ. Certainly the first grace is given without being asked, i.e. the grace to pray. If you say I expect all graces from Christ and need not lift a finger, you are greatly deceiving yourself, less we hear on our judgement from the mouth of Our Lord "Thou wicked and slothful servant!, ...and the unprofitable servant cast ye out into the exterior darkness!" (Mt 25: 26, 30).
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2 Corinthians 3:7 (KJV)

But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,


The 10 commandments are written and engraved on stones, it's called a ministry of death.

Try and explain that. What is this ministry of death?

Death, define it.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 9 2019, 02:04 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 9 2019, 02:08 PM

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QUOTE(lurkingaround @ Oct 9 2019, 01:55 PM)
....... So, your argument for buying life insurance is naught or baseless as it goes against trusting in God by keeping His Law/Word, in order to be blessed by God with a good and long life on earth. You either trust God or trust Mammon = you cannot trust both at the same time.
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That is not right.
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 9 2019, 02:19 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 02:17 PM)
Now if the ministration of death: Paul means the former law, which by giving them a greater knowledge, and not giving graces of itself to fulfil those precepts, occasioned death, was notwithstanding glorious, accompanied with miracles on Mount Sinai, and so that the Israelites, when Moses came down from the mountain, could not bear the glory of his countenance, which he was forced to cover with a veil, when he spoke to them. Shall not the ministration of the Spirit in the new law, which worketh our sanctification and salvation, abound with much greater glory?

Don't forget the moral standard in the New Testament is higher than that of the Old. "You have heard that it was said, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Mt 5:27).
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You're not answering my question.

Why look to death?
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 9 2019, 03:03 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 02:28 PM)
What do you mean look to death? The post above has answered you.
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No it doesn't, you insist on looking to the 10 commandments and yet what you posted.

The former law = not giving graces of itself to fulfil those precepts, occasioned death.

Why do still look to the law? That is my question.

There is no grace there and it's not occasion death my friend, it is a MINISTRY OF DEATH.

Do you understand the meaning of death here?

Yes Christ brought the law higher in book of Matthew. If nobody could really fulfill the OT law, what makes you think you're able to fulfill this higher law in OT?

Do you understand Romans 5:20?

Romans 5:20 (KV) -
Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,

Why do you want to keep looking to the OT law that was design to increase offense? smile.gif

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 9 2019, 03:13 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 9 2019, 03:12 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 02:27 PM)
Nope. Your position is not the same as UW's. UW is implying the 10 Commandments can be completely ignored because it comes under the OT.

And no again to your second part. A Christian's life in this world is a constant warfare. I don't deny there will be times when one will fall, but with grace, prayer and the sacraments, one can rise again. "Fight the good fight"
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No, that is not right, the full context = Fight the good fight of "FAITH".

Meaning keep on believing in what Christ did. That is the meaning of Christ saving us.

You are in essence purporting, one has to keep fighting to save himself.

It's either you save yourself or Christ save you, the title savior can only be on either one.

Not unless you're implying you and Christ are conferred the title of savior of man.

No right?

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 9 2019, 03:19 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Oct 9 2019, 03:26 PM

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QUOTE(yeeck @ Oct 9 2019, 03:24 PM)
What a perverse misinterpretation of St Paul that you have! Are you saying God is the cause of sin?

Not that the law was designed for that end; but the word that, as in many other places, so here expresses only the consequence that followed, when sinners occasionally became more guilty by the knowledge of the law, and the precepts given. Not as if the law were given purposely for sin to abound (that itself is a blasphemy against God the source of all goodness); but that it so happened, through man's perversity, taking occasion of sinning more, from the prohibition of sin. St Paul does not say that grace abounded in every place where iniquity had abounded; but he says indefinitely where, that is, in many places where sin abounded, grace hath abounded also.

If you read what was written above, Scripture has answered you. "I can do all these things in him who strengtheneth me".
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Erm, that is not what the scripture says.

It didn't say the sinner becomes more guilty, it says the the law entered in that the offense might abound.

Read it properly.

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