Local banks in Malaysia are racist. Is it true or false?

Few months ago, I still remembered I met a property consultant and were talking about house projects to buy.

While talking about income, DSR, and others related things, he said to me that within each bank there's a thing called, "Profiling".

What he meant by Profiling is that each applicant is been categorized with score to pass the house loan.

Example of Profiling:
Age: Teenager? Adult? Senior citizen?
Working: MNC? Normal Sdn Bhd? Enterprise?
Salary: Above 3k? Above 5k? Above 8k?
And bla bla bla etc etc...

The most important: Race/Bangsa: Melayu? Tamil? Cina? Lain-lain? Etc.

I meant very strictly here I don't mean any racist post and I do not want to see anyone simply commenting racially.

So,
1) The property agent told that if bangsa Cina then it's very much likely to approve the loan because the data in BNM shows people from Cina race are good paymaster and don't delay their commitment.

2) And, bank will consider more points when it comes to Tamil race. Abit tighter application than Bangsa Cina.

3) Melayu race is one of the most strict to go through screening and taking many things into consideration because the data shows people from Melayu race are default in loan payment or don't service the loan in time.

4) So, when it's comes to lain-lain race then the bank will only look into after looking into the main 3 races. As I'm Punjabi, so I will fall myself into Lain-Lain/other race which is in bracket (Punjabi).

Please guts, no racist or racial attack comment. MOD please pay attention on this thread.

My question how true is it the local bank practice such Profiling??? Or anyone go through such experience with bank?


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Sindri sangkut bayar, sindri nk slhkn bank racist. Apeda.

Eh... Revolvers trait and commitment will only get higher with more kids. So...

It call profiling based on race.....

if u good paymaster, good credit rating, nothing to worry.

Don't look everything within race and religion scope only

it's called credit risk profiling based on experience lending ppl money in Malaysia.. nothing to do with race profiling.

Quite true actually.

Some time back, Standard Chartered credit card promoters prefered Chinese than other races for card application. Reason also same.

Upon hearing this, I left.

u heard the thing call big data ? whatever the data tell them, they follow. nothing to do with racist.

Every bank in the world is the same, they rely on big data to guide them. All risk department rely on big data, from there they work out the profiling category.

assuming if you go russia or singapore or china and then work in bank, samething will happen, if in china, they will profile according to your kampung, what type of chinese u are, gender, school. etc..

bank are for business, they loan for profit, not NGO.

seriously, no matter what race you are, if your CCRIS and CTOS scores are great and have a constant flow of income, the loan officer will even ask you to take a higher loan from them with an even lower interest rate. They more worried about you paying off the loan earlier.

Banks do practice scoring of customers before deciding on loan amount to approve. race is just one of the many factors. Your own individual historical payment, current loan amount, outstanding, credit cards etc is also taken into account.

actually, the scoring of race alone is just a tiny fraction of all other things. they have SO many factors to consider. and at the end of the day, these scoring factors are calibrated from time to time based on data of customer default etc.

can also say banks prefer applicants who work in stable industries or certain jobs (fixed income rather than commission based) as well but it's not about being discriminatory.

So it's not racism

I think last time i have a friend working in bank also say like that. xD Long time ago... xD

Kebanyakkan chinese keje positiion tinggi. kebanyakkan malay position tinggi sampai la ke grabfood majoriti malay.

aku kenal seorang.dia support biz aku since dari murah ke mahal bende.laki bini dia support aku. payment x pernah failed. siap suggest kawan dia guna services aku. nk kata tak tau harga. dia chatterd account ada company sendiri. ada 5 company under onw roof. bini dia pulak ada 3-4 company. she chinese btw.

anak dia member lyn. tapi bukan jenis lepak kat /k/ i know this because i saw he open lyn page got his id

actually kalau sector retail . malay mmg win. tapi sector services chinese mmg win. repair paip ke repair rumah ke as long as services go for chinese. i mean dari segi affordable harga. not dari segi qty. tapi ni dulu la tahun 2000 - 2010 . semenjak ada online bussiness ni Chinese pun banyak cut cost.

I'm bumi and wonder if this is the reason why my housing loan application was very hard to get approved, despite of my good DSR and clean CCRIS record. Applied to 3 banks, only 1 approved (although only 80%), only able to get 90% if joint name with my wife. SMH

cimb
cina india melayu bangla

If data driven, can you blame the data? Its not your fault but business dont care about anything else but money so if you are thinking of racism as a business policy, far from it.

Money is the determinant here

They're a business.
If you are the bank, what would you do?

Loan 2mil to someone that has a high chance of returning back to money or loan to someone that has a lower chance to return the money?

It's just statistics.

If you want to say it's racist, then it is also sexist, ageist and elitist.

Doubt it is true.

I fall under the "lain lain" category.

The only local banks I deal with are CIMB and MBB. Never had any issues when it came to getting loans.

Malay govt staff doesn't seem to have this problem..Bank are lining up to entice them.to get personal loan..

Gov stuff different story cos very stable, non gov one tomrrow u can lose yr job no 100% u can afford to pay. Gov one they terus tolak from gaji that why gov stuff can get a lower interrst rate compare to non gov job.

I'm 'Other', Banks usually pening, so they just approve my applications.

on the other hand, affirmative action will help some people to borrow less loan, and therefore lower the risk due to the loan amount smaller. so overall it probably will just cancel out each other compared to other race which need to borrow more for the same type of house.

This post has been edited by tictac88: Aug 16 2019, 11:29 PM

Bumi - banks prefer their own kind

Mana ada. I Indian also my ctos ok jer, Citibank/HLB always offer me personal loan jer

I'd imagine race would be behind other factors like:
Age
Salary
Job stability
Qualifications
Leverage
Payment history

No point looking at something general like race, when you have so much specific data.

All things being equal, I'm not too sure how much weight would be given to race.

Once I had to go to bank during lunch hour, number queue at CIMB.
I notice that a Chinese customer got poor service.
When next customer, a Malay, suddenly teller give good service.

When I shared this story in coffee shop, a journalist shared too.
That during bank annual meeting, half of meeting are all complaints to BOD.

If open post ask, surely majority will say not racists because that's locals do not see themselves that way.
Plus the majority of 70% gets decent to good service from majority staff.

In reality....

+1 One must ensure good credit payment.
Otherwise can blame it on anything because the core data is credit rating.

A loan officer has thousands of applications per day or week, how is the bank going to handle it?
Banks will use data, if credit rating record fail then how can you expect to pass ?

If customer is first time with no credit data then loan officer will decide based on other data.
If you live in same address as Najib then fail.
If you are young with no high income pay then only entitle to small loan.
If you open stupid post asking about racism in bank, then bank got offended, then fail.

Majority of CIMB staff were from Bank Bumiputera which was link to BMF / Carian Investment scandal in Hong Kong.
Last year, a Razak was in CIMB's board of director.
As old man said, MY easily forgets.

Bank staff also get special rate for loan and deposits.

Affirmative action does not help. That's why NEP never touch banks.
Banks are super powers that control politicians. Have you heard Goldman rule the world.
Govt had local banks spawned to loan to locals and industries.
BNM also approve micro loan schemes, partly because ah long / ceti loan sharks were making a killing. So banks did not want to be left out.

+1 Yes.
In the end, where does money come from ?
Printing cost of RM100 = maybe RM0.20
Loan out RM100 interest about 6% = RM6
Customers repay loan of RM100 = RM106
Profit to bank : RM106 - RM0.20 = RM105.80

Example is simple but lots of banking matters, people do not understand except what they have been brainwashed or imagine.

So is bank racist?
maybe some of their staff are
banks are biased for profit. After all 1mdb did not trade with itself. See how many Goldman staff being prosecuted....

More to do with holidays like hari raya and tahun baru cina Xmas and deepavali etc

U tak nampak cinis in low position before ? U nampak banyak ore kito keja grabfood tapi tauka grabfood ni keja halal ..gaji blh sampai 3k++

It's about your credit score.
If you're a good paymaster, they will give you loan, CC etc. No problems.

You should not worry

And yet you did turned the matter racially yourself.

After just talking to one guy. After he did explained the factors and information on the loan application that the banks would need to determine whether to accept or reject the application.

What you have shown was the perception of the consultant on past statistics of who and what background would likely to have the loan approved or disapproved.

To think and suspect that the banks conduct racial profiling, you need an insider to say that the bank disregards all the financial information on the loan application and approve or reject the loan based solely on his name and race.

Punjabi = Kaum india

Don't know where you heard Punjabis fall under the Lain2 bracket.

Source: I am Punjabi myself

bank = money

you & bank = money talks...

Guys, I gave the property agent the link of our lowyat forum feedback /posts on this topic.

I agreed about Profiling Risk Database. I knew about it. So I Whatsapp the property agent.

The agent says, the information that he got about this is within an insider from the local bank.

This is scary then.

no bank will do that because it is simply not allowed to have unsound credit policy by disregarding all financial information except race, and auditors will have a field day on such things.

inb4 people gonna blame auditors also racists too

This post has been edited by tictac88: Aug 17 2019, 11:48 PM

there are other possibilities such as so called insider is not even reliable in the first place. credit policy should be defined properly with proper weight and rating at every level. anything else should not be acceptable. and it will be unconceivable with the whole credit policy only use race as primary criteria.

This post has been edited by tictac88: Aug 17 2019, 11:56 PM

I don't it is any scarier than you claiming you knew about 'profiling risk database'.

So much spin from the 1st post... that maybe you should change your nick to pusingh.

You better tell him to hide his/her ass. Just violated the law and company's confidential information.

go look at ptptn defaluters

They have profiling based on gender ?

The percentage of bankruptcy in Malaysia is quite balance between races. Many major banks in malaysia are GLC.

Why are you guys wasting time thinking abt all these glass ceiling over your head?

Im a bumi, my first house purchase was 350k subsale, working experience 9 month had cc for only 2 months. i was 23 years old. Loan from Public Bank a chinese bank. it was a subsale i payed the 10%. How? Because im smart and i showed them i had money? Simple no racism or my parents involved. Haiyah apa yang susah.

This post has been edited by thahirah: Aug 18 2019, 05:56 PM

My experience is that it's based on money lol. Me and my parents go to the same bank. My service is so so...

omg when I was with my parents once, I finally understand why they said that bank service so good

There's no tamil race.. Only Indian.. Why did you put others?
Your mind is running wild.. Bank is only interested in your ur income not race..

Bank is not doing charity lol.
They are doing a very risky business where people can just balik kampung near ulu ulu area and never be seen again.
I heard some mentioned last time about defaulting car loan and steps to hide the car in kampung.

So bank need the data to analyze the risk.
Imagine someone from Kampung XYZ far far away from city applying loan and not having proper employment. No history of financial data.
You want to give out loan?

If you bought a property in good enough area and your credit score is good, then why should the banks reject you. Your property is already collateral.

But if you buy a property is a shitty area to people without any credit score or poor credit score, then definitely the loan will be rejected regardless of race.

Banks are running a business so I don't think its a race thing.

Doubt its true

Im malay

I have 7 home loans, zero rejections

haha when comes to own skin semua mau back up saying not racist
of course its RACIST la to categorize ppl according to races, associating certain behavior to certain race is RACIST
judging people's ability to do work or pay loan according to race is RACIST
profiling is racist
risk management konon. knnccb

banks are running a business after all


banks base alot of decisions based on risk, so if historical data shows a certain group / ethnic has higher rates of default, of course they will be more stringent to that group / ethnic la.. common sense

its not about racist

simple test; name 5 friends you would lend money to. (Im pretty sure the 1st thing you will think is their ability to repay back, their job, their stablity - not their race)

guna lah otak sikit

once, i got this part time job...
doing surveys....

I am given a few scenarios at a few banks (same brand, different branches)

Ask about credit card, ask about personal loan, ask about their financing etc.

Requirements, i need to go to assigned banks, get the name card of the officer etc. play out the scenario for that branch and then fill out the survey form.

basically the Manager/customer relations doesnt know which customer is their secret shopper. im basically an undercover customer.

i dont know if they do profiling or not. Most of the banks i go is OK, except one branch.

I think doing profiling is OK. its data driven for the bank. but dont show it to ur potential customers. Service them the same.
Smile, tend to them similarly, whatever profiling the customer fall into.

The bad experience i got from this one branch:
Im a malay.
when my turn comes, look at me with one eye, seems not interested.
i asked my questions (scripted questions) about the financial product.
not really helping much. so lansi.
ask me to read the brochure.
then i choose a product, she said owh, this one need EPF certain amount of money.
She said that in a manner that looks down on me.
She doesnt know i make maybe triple her salary. Or at least double.

So reluctantly she bring me to the KWSP machine, got my epf thing printed out and said OK, with surprised eyes that im eligible.

I asked questions i needed to ask for the secret shopper section and went back.
She really answer half heartedly.

the other branches i went to, they are some lower ranking officials, and some same level with this lady. i dont understand why u act this way when u are supposed to be the one acting nice to customers.

Bank name is withheld.

Yes, it happens. But not all banks. I'd suggest if you found that kind of banks, just walk away.

Wow what a nice part time job u have... How to apply tho. Wanna do the same thing in small2 town in n9

4 years ago i work in Nonperforming loan in Blue bank (Local). More than 60% of the defaulter is master race

You talked about not wanting this to be a racist post, and yet here you are making a post based solely on ONE property agent's assertion who's trying to earn your business.

I last time worked in a bank la.....those officers doing review see numbers more than names and race la.....what banks see is numbers only

banks evaluate base on numbers, individuals evaluate based on race

the thing is the numbers are relatively problematic in some demographics of society

which comes up as an issue with initial evaluation and getting things done

Evaluation based on ur money only..lol

Now yr beong racist here, blue bank dont have much other race customer to begin with.....

I did not try to ‘pusingh’ as someone said, nor am I trying to provoke anything.

I only knew about basic profiling thing, however still nobody can justify whether it is true or false.

I asked my uncle who works in one BNM Department regarding this, he told it just pure BULLSHIT.

I will grill the property agent when I meet him.

how can you unsure about this?

like, if there is very rich and reliable Malay paymaster and the bank is going to say no? because they are racist evils?

and a chinese with horrible credit score, they going to say yes? because it is their kind? who care if they default right? it is the shareholder problem, not my problem?

banks exist to make chinese life easier right? and there never any controversy after 60 years, sounds legit to you?

I don't think the banks are racist. This is a very common risk management profiling. Based on trend, history, experience.

Same goes to doing commercial business. Chinese are always being labeled as greedy and will squeeze every single cents from you. That's also based on history and experience from the majority.

Who would risk your own business to losing money. So it is not about racist or whatsoever. It is risk management...

i think u can try different banks, i heard before some banks are strict

maybank seems okay....

Your 2nd post, looks to me, has diverted so much from your 1st post that it is a complete u-turn.

I mentioned 'insider' and you said indeed it was what an 'insider' said to your property agent.

Now you bring in an uncle working in bank negara.

Even if I accept what you said and not be sceptical that the agent and uncle were created out of thin air, the point still remains that you made a bold statement and challenges others to dispute or support the bold statement that banks are racist and approves housing loans based on skin color.

You were not asking whether what you heard from the 'agent' was true or not.

You have already concluded that the banks are racists, and when challenged on your conclusion and the point that you have a bias mentality based on skin color in arriving at that opinion that the banks are racists, you were trying to defend yourself that it was what the agent said.

Another person would question first that he heard from a friend or anyone before making such a bias opinion.

But you choose to share and post the opinion and said this is what you heard from someone. Obviously, you are racially bias and immature.

"I only knew about basic profiling thing, however still nobody can justify whether it is true or false."

Enough la with your spins... you go research on your own what this 'basic profiling thing' you're talking about. It was 'Profiling' and then 'Profiling Risk Database'.

I think u not from this research field, they use the same method to analyse the reseach data, there is a thing call p value. So the analyse data show that race is an important factor and it is true from what they said. The result is there for a reason. Ppl are businessman, making money from social. They not gonna cheat on yhis

May I know what is meant by "P value"? Mind sharing?

The significance of the processed data, the end result of the hypothesis.

https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&clie...+square+p+value

Hmm that sounds like a salary issue since all's well when you add your wife in?

If banks based on race and race alone then yeah that's racist.

More like BS, bank don't work that way

1. Credit
2. Meeting bank requirement

If not then try another bank.

Every bank have their own criteria apart from DSR

unfounded accusation based on personal opinion. what i understand from bank working is totally different.

maybe u should try other bank.. say HLBB also good now a days

Depend on sales person la..
Kalau rajin buat karangan senang la lulus

Look at the bank's point of view if you are the banker.

Lol. Funniest tered i read today.

Which bank doesnt want to earn money from interest. Clearly they will need to analyze their risk as well while doing so.

Bank will approve as long as it meets their criteria ie DSR, Disposable Income, Existing Savings, Good Track Record...

If can approve 100 cases in hand, why not ? It is more efficient and easier than reject 90, approve 10 then go looking for another 90 cases to approve.

How to know "that kind of bank"?

You have the point.

It's logical and makes sense. It's all about probability

I guess you went through bad experience in one of local banks then.

FYI, i have perfect credit card payment track record.

i pay 100% according to statement amount, monthly without fail.

and then? any of your loan approve or how?

I’ve no idea whether banks are racist or not. But I always wonder the race column in all their forms. Assuming I’m applying for a CC or PL where there isn’t a bumi discount.

Do they use that for statistics? End of the year PowerPoint to show how much Chinese has borrowed? Malay and Indian. How many did not pay back or took longer? Then that’s racism of some kind for sure. Subtle one.

Point is, they must be using that data for something.

why is it so scary? sorry, you acted like you just came out from a cave. this process is normal. every bank will rate you when apply for loan.

Yes, this post has a valid point. They must be using that data for something.

Please dont spin a business decision into a racial one. Are you upset that you are not able to get a loan? Work harder then. I doubt bank would reject you if your income is strong.

This.

Keep thinking what organizations are doing collecting racial profile data? U think they have hidden agenda? Think again....

Marketing products better la. How to sell ads for loans for chinese better? Use chinese language and products that they will usually apply for -> based on data, maybe they click through more for vacation ads?

Malay community are easier to persuade with BM ads. And maybe they are likely to click on ads targeted during raya that talk about furniture and baju raya


Keep your mind out of the gutter. If you think it's a racist thing, you're just making lazy assumptions all the time and just give up on improving your own capabilities. The profiling is INDIVIDUAL BASED at the end of the day. your own full record of CCRIS, current and past loans are taken into account.

It's intelligence based on analytics

I've got bad news for you. EVERY business does it, and it's not wrong. You profile your customers so you can better do business with them. The only difference is how much sciences and maths is put into profiling.

Typically the fields exist in forms for no reason other than "that's the template we received" because someone maybe 20-30 years ago put the field in there, and no one has bothered changing the forms. You'd be surprised how many times I've fudged up the "Race" or "Annual Income" field on purpose like putting "NOYB" (none of your business). No one bats an eye and I'm never questioned.

That aside, those data are typically used for business intelligence, e.g. which income group is more likely to default, what level of interest rates can be applied at what loan range, etc etc. Even if it is race based, it's empirical, it's not racist to point out certain group to have certain spending habits if it's factual.

This is a good one.

Next time, I would fill up those column with NOYB

I should try myself fill up AEON Credit form next month, and write Bangsa as MALAYSIAN. See what would be their reaction or they will just buat bodoh.

Yes, its true. Not only local banks but also foreign banks incorporated in Malaysia do this profiling. But I don't think all the banks in Malaysia do it this way. My friend entered a customer profile for preliminary approval into the system and the result was loan rejected. Changed the race and then automatically approved. So yes, race is used as a factor to profile potential clients. Which is probably why certain banks reject my credit card applications while others can give me 6 figure credit limits. Profiling based on race is racist, period. It doesn't matter what the weightage assigned to race is. Its just plain racist coz it means that good paymasters and people with better credit management get lower credit scores based on race while someone else gets higher score based on race although they are not as financially strong.

Signed ICERD? Else the banks did nothing wrong at all

apa salahan bank? i see many melei, cainis, indiannn driving luxury cars.

TS your heart like glass kah? so easy shattered

What's your point?

Profiling based on race is racist, period. It doesn't matter what the weightage assigned to race is. Its just plain racist coz it means that good paymasters and people with better credit management get lower credit scores based on race while someone else gets higher score based on race although they are not as financially strong.

Bank yg mane satu hang sebut tuh 😂

This is malaysia .


Get real.

Ever heard of 'bumiputera only'?

What do you mean racist? Thats the way it is.

Go find some other banks. Dont worry about things that you cannot control. Work on things that you can change.