Im not sure that your understanding of a 'deep state' is accurate.

Other people wouldnt agree its deep state if these 'deep state people' are actually chosen by the political leaders themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state
It can be GLC companies even, I don't see why it wasn't considered deep state by this definition.

No such things as bogeyman having power and all... Bullshit. I think why gomen make u turn is becouse of scared of the silent voters.

So.... Deep State = Silent Voter.

And neither of the examples you quoted were existing member the the previous regime, nor pushing agenda that is opposed to the current one.

Of course it hasn't been a boogeyman when the players are always there.
I rather believe that money is the more reliable source of factor and motivation.

A former finance minister wasn't a member of the previous regime?
The statement by the person I mention (Daim) on tol yesterday despite the election manifesto isn't pushing agenda?
What position he hold politically and officially?

dont blame MyJimmy for being simpletons

just look at america enough lah... powerful and super rich conglomerates playing games behind the scene lobbying the congress for their own gain

Millineal with too much TV House of cards always believe TV Series is a real thing.

Okay, so what makes this "Deep State" in US and in Malaysia?

illuminati, lalilulelo, the patriots, foxhound, you are all diamonds.

I didn't say about US.
I replied in post #22.

I gave you a few points in my previous post at what you should look at. That is hardly a worthy reply.

As I said earlier, the term was coined and chiefly employed in the US. To understand it, you have to understand its characteristics and the context which help defined it.

Then now you are asking in terms of a Malaysian context. So you have to differentiate how, in a different legal environment, the concept of a "Deep State" would apply.

At the very least... can you even define what is a "Deep State" and differentiate it from a Govt functioning normally as designed?

So you believe that since there is no separation of power between executive, judiciary and legislative that there is no deep state or the whole government is a deep state?
I would say that on the Malaysian context it wasn't functioning as designed, at least there is a Supreme Court judge who rules UMNO as illegal back then, I would argue that there is a deep state, since created by Dr M, which you might not be aware of since you are born in '91.

Also read my reply #25 for a recent action of a member of the deep state.

yes, he was a former finance minister - under the same prime minister as it is now. same goes with rafidah aziz.

with regard to his position, they were both given influence by the current prime minister. you don't 'deep state' against the current government, when you are appointed by the current government.

the fact that they do not have a formal position is literally an argument against the definition of deep state, which apply to people in the current structure. you can't be in deep state if you're not even part of the state, you know.

so yeah, i (and it seems its not only just me) really think you should re-examine what the term means.

Sorry, but I dont watch House of cards series yet, and no, I have old ic before , so you can guesstimate how old I am by now.

Sometimes, you should look around and think and you will realized that, not everything is as it seems

This post has been edited by JimbeamofNRT: May 4 2019, 11:35 PM

Real deep state,s buried deep inside your consciousness.. Your consciousness is just a facade

No, you seemed to have a misguided belief that deep state is of the opposition party, you seemed to think that deep state is a conspiracy group that have different agenda than the government, like an element of coup e'tat or such.
In reply #22, I quoted the key element "The intent of a deep state can include continuity of the state itself, job security for its members, enhanced power and authority, and the pursuit of ideological objectives."

The one who need to reexamine the term is you.

Also see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state_in...e_United_States

The "white house plumbers" aka Committee for the Re-Election of the President is considered to be Deep state when they are exposed in the Watergate scandal when Richard Nixon is still in power.
How does your doesn't "deep state" against the current government hold water when they current government is the deep state itself?

This post has been edited by Angelic Layer: May 5 2019, 06:58 AM

Lets look at the first para of the link you yourself provided:



"Without reference to the consent of the governed as expressed through the formal political process", i.e. not voted.

So lets apply some logic here: does this apply to people who are directly appointed by a leader who was democratically chosen?

If thats still unclear to you, lets think about ut this way. Daim and rafidah were appointed to their roles as advisors by mahathir, without being elected themselves. Similarly, jared kushner and ivanka trump were also appointed by donald trump, without being elected themselves.

Youre saying that daim and rafidah are 'deep state'. Thats fine. Are you also saying that ivanka trump and her husband are also deep state?

They aren't in an official position or capacity, just like the White House plumbers and the committee for the re-election of the president, they are appointed the role by Nixon himself mind you.
Yet the watergate is considered a Deep State, especially their operation exposed and pulled down a president.

I would say yes, for your second point if they involve in the governmental process or operations of sorts, that's why they try to investigate the Russian link not too long ago.