Tun Shafee Abdullah

" Just because that money gets into my account, that does not mean im aware that the money comes from wrong source"

So how to proof wahai...cendekiawan - cendekiawan K

In anti money laundering act, the burden of proof lie with defendant to show source of money to be legal.

why no moneh come to my bank account one?????

eh, he oledi tun? since when?

Banyak putar belit
Lidah biawak

If there is a money laundry at the amount of 2.6b. Regardless of whether the CEO knew it or not, he is still liable.

u mix with the wrong friend.

Just because a pig gets onto my dinner table, doesn't mean it is not halal

Owaiii

Najib is boss of 1mdb.... money 1mdb go into his accounts....

Burden of proof he is not aware in on najib.

well.. if he spent it..
then its already proof since he knew it existed

Funny is need prosecution prove Najib is aware and know where the money is coming from

He already said to the whole Malaysian before right ?

but the already acknowledge the money is from saudi, it's purpose for political uses and admit use them and even send back balance to Saudi Prince.

so still can say i dunno how it ended up there ka ??

tipu budak pun tak lepas nie !!

tell that to semenyih and rantau folks...

najib is only advisor..not executive director

If Abu gives money to allgap...u can know abu money comes from meh?? Can u??

give me ur account number, let me insert some money...n decide where my money comes from

This post has been edited by bani_prime: Apr 15 2019, 09:11 PM

then where the money go after that ??

Burden of proof is on najib again that he is not in control of the executive directors.

Here

Section 3 of AMLA defines “money laundering” as the act of a person who:

Engages, directly or indirectly, in a transaction that involves “proceeds of any unlawful activity”;

Acquires, receives, possesses, disguises, transfers, converts, exchanges, carries, disposes, uses, removes from or brings into Malaysia “proceeds of any unlawful activity”; or

Conceals, disguises or impedes the establishment of the true nature, origin, location, movement, disposition, title of, rights with respect to, or ownership of, “proceeds of any unlawful activity”.

In 2013, Parliament passed another amendment, resulting in further lengthening the already long title. It now reads the Anti-Money Laundering, Anti-Terrorism Financing and Proceeds of Unlawful Activities Act (AMLATFPUAA). This new amendment is intended to deal with “the proceeds of an unlawful activity” in addition to property involved in or derived from money laundering and terrorism financing offences.

The phrase “proceeds of unlawful activity” is defined to mean “any property derived or obtained, directly or indirectly, by any person as a result of any unlawful activity”, whilst the term “unlawful activity” is defined as “any activity which is related, directly or indirectly, to any serious offence or any foreign serious offence". The term “serious offence” means any offences specified in the Second Schedule of AMLA and any attempt or abetment of those offences.

In the past, many thought of money laundering as the act of dealing with (“cleaning”) dirty money or black money. That perception is no longer correct, as the present scope of the law (after its 2007 and 2013 amendments) is indeed extremely wide.

The present situation is explained in Bank Negara Malaysia’s official portal as follows: “The enforcement of the AMLA is undertaken by various ministries/agencies based on the predicate offences under their respective purview which is listed under the Second Schedule of the AMLA. As at November 2014, there were 356 offences under 42 pieces of legislations listed under the Second Schedule of the AMLA.”

Some of these statutes setting out the “serious offences” envisaged under AMLA may be familiar to the general public, some may not — Penal Code (Act 574), Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission Act 2009, Dangerous Drugs Act 1952, Child Act 2001, Anti-Trafficking in Persons and Anti-Smuggling of Migrants Act 2007, Customs Act 1967, Income Tax Act 1967, Capital Market and Services Act 2007, and the Financial Services Act 2013.

Against the backdrop of these various statutes, any person may be prosecuted under AMLA if he commits any one of these offences — such as criminal breach of trust, theft, accepting gratification, illegal deposit taking, carrying on unlicensed financial services, insider trading, falsifying documents, smuggling, offering and receiving bribes, and tax evasion.

In 2012, a medical practitioner falsified financial documents, resulting in RM42 million being transferred into her account. She was convicted under AMLA and sentenced to 38 years’ imprisonment and a RM639 million fine.

In the 2016 “Sabah watergate” case, MACC seized RM114 million from the homes of a Sabah Water Department director and his deputy. The money was stashed in their homes and the boot of a car. MACC investigators also seized jewellery and 127 land titles valued at RM30 million. The suspects’ bank accounts were also frozen.

It is generally understood that in criminal cases, the onus is on the prosecution to prove its case beyond reasonable doubt. Under Section 70(2) AMLA, the prosecution remains bound to discharge this heavy duty insofar as it has to prove an offence has been committed.

However, in relation to any other facts, Section 70(1) states that they be decided on the balance of probabilities (which is the standard of proof applicable to civil cases).

Section 4(2) AMLA is an extremely powerful provision. It states that a person may be convicted of an offence of money laundering “irrespective of whether there is a conviction in respect of a serious offence or foreign serious offence or that a prosecution has been initiated for the commission of a serious offence or foreign serious offence.”

This means that a person who is alleged to have committed a serious offence (such as tax evasion or smuggling under the applicable laws) may be convicted for money laundering (under AMLA) even if he has not been prosecuted or convicted for tax evasion or smuggling. The authorities may commence investigations under any of the statutes mentioned in the Second Schedule but may subsequently decide to prosecute the accused under AMLA.

he never pay tax. enough to go prison. no need care about other shit.

This post has been edited by Phoenix_KL: Apr 15 2019, 09:14 PM

you already acknowledge and admit that money is from this person and use it for that purpose

Wahhh hahaha..... apa punya loyar buruk lah mamat ni...
kalau sploh doploh hengget boley la cakap x aware dari mana...

Ataupon duit yg olang kasi derma masok kat dalam tong beskut / piggy bank ke... boley la kata x aware...

Ini masuk berpuluh2 juta, lagi akaun personal, lagi suda buat belanja juta2, kasi kluar cheque banyak keping lagi....

Lagi mau guna itu alasan ka...

Wahahahaahaa....

Sad butt thru punya lauyar lah ni...

above certain amount will trigger the bank ..for ‘sensitive’ person lagi la bank monitor

Just put him in jail la, he will never noticed it also.

doesnt matter where the money comes from, spending it is more important.

Money that comes from that person is not a problem. The current issue taht problem is that the money comes from that person comes from our goverment money

Having say so....if i donate u NOW rm 10, can u determine wheres that RM 10 coming from? of course it came from me, but from which source...from bussiness...from robbery...can u know??

1 tukang bohong.
1 tukang spin.

The law says direct or indirectly from unlawfull proceed and prosecutor didnt need to prove he is aware.

sabarlah....im doing my homework too...to investigate ur claim

He is a lawyer.

He shud know this phrase.

Ignorantia juris non excusat

Standard legal principle.

Ignorance of the law excuses no one. Basically, u cannot say i didnt know it was illegal, hence not my fault.

u are picking the wrong context.
if thing like straight forward like...i kill Manji n i dunno its wrong in law. Than ur logic applies.

The current context is different
its like saying that an actor should shoot Manji in one scene. He was supposed to be given a fake gun. Not knowingly someone actually giving him real gun. n he shoot Manji n die. U cant say the actor was guilty, he does not know that the gun that given to him is real

bani_prime datang lagi dgn cerita dongeng pro najibnya

bani_prime = lokman adam but k version

He's been charge with bribery right? You know that he need to declare the income and get permission before the money enter his account? Also question here isn't if the sources of money is clean or not clean. A businessman Abu earning legit profit, decided to bribe Sesame who hold power in the government. Totally clean money. Sesame accept the money, so the charge of bribery agaisnt sesame valid or not? We are talking about clean money.

So question back to you, does it matter if the money clean or not? What matter is he aware of it and didn't declare.

Surely Najib had asked Najib the source of the fund.

the allegation waas money laundering, not bribe
because based on SPRM, 3 condition must be met to fulfilll the defintion
- there is a present from the giver to the receiver
- the present influence the decision making of the receiver
- the new decision making benefit the giver

can u list down....
1. what is the present?
2. what decision making that involved?
3. n how that decision making benefit the giver?

this.
not the other way around.

is najib the one that need to proof that he is unaware.

for example proof would be like say he was in coma during the duration of the transaction take place, with support document etc. then thats a proof.

Seems to me, like all the 3 SPRM conditions have been properly fulfilled. 😂

Interesting, he got 42 counts of corruption and money laundering charges offer a window into the complex web of transactions surrounding 1Malaysia Development Bhd. Corruption is one of it, but since you want to ignore it, fine, let's ignore it. Let's only talk about money laundering.

You got the link from sprm about the money laundering definition? I only found the definition for corruption but no money laundering.

However, money laundering by general context according to google - money laundering
noun
the concealment of the origins of illegally obtained money, typically by means of transfers involving foreign banks or legitimate businesses.

He get the money, legal / illegally will depends on if the corruption charges is valid or not. Since we don't want to discuss that points, can just focus on money laundering.

And we certainly have all evidence on how the money was transferred from once shell companies to the others using multiple foreigners bank. DOJ have the complete transaction list.

This post has been edited by wanted111who: Apr 15 2019, 10:21 PM

Indeed..law has defined it very clearly..
So no twisting

For AMLA. In March 2007, it was amended to include provisions to combat terrorism financing after the 9/11 tragedy in the United States, and the original title was expanded to become Anti-Money Laundering and Anti-Terrorism Financing Act (AMLATFA).

Guessed who's the deputy PM back then? You meant to say a deputy PM don't know the law amendment made in 2007? Fuyoh, win already.

Btw, before any law amendment was made, will need parliament members approval. Hope his signature not in any document. Otherwise susah mau spin.

This post has been edited by wanted111who: Apr 15 2019, 10:39 PM

Just as planned lah... At the end JL and cina vabi salah... Bijian suci Dan bersih. Semua akan percaya lah... Lol.. This is the intelligent level... Nothing can say liao...

now u know:

Shocking Explosive details of 1mdb stolen Billions, See the obscene spending by kleptocrats!
5 Jun 2017
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4313542

Details, tables here:

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4760936/+320

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4760936/+400

Najib clearly has the intention.

He also act in his capacity as a PM to stop 1mdb investigation.

Intention. Intention.

yeah i see it..almost like 90% spend for election.

u mean??

I got an easier method,

How they know which Bank account to put it if he himself didn't reveal his account number to them??

As if the bank officer will search n gv then a 3rd party asked.


Wanna act dumb also got limit..., This one worse than dumb n dumber..

So 3 questions:

1) Were you expecting money to enter your account?
2) If yes, from who?
3) If no, why not declare it sooner?

Just a couple notes from a REAL lawyer.

Case like this if jibby can win it will be the future case reference for all money laundering pipu ...according to our bn minister its not a crime if ure not caught

Everyday postponed case tak habis habis

Case looks bleak if defense can question the credibility of prosecution witness and document

Standard argument of ppl who do money laundering.

In ISO, there is a clause called awareness

You can't tell auditors that you are not aware, you suppose to aware of what is happening

So why he didn't declare at the first place? Simple. U didn't declare the money and then it is all with intent to cheat liao. Simple.

Shafee asked as if he is the judge, not the defense lawyer.

Sohai sungguh.

Dah tahu duit tu bukan kau punya buat tak tau aje la kan

Kenapa tak cuba siasat sapa pulak kasi masuk duit

Ini duit haram ke duit halal ke duit harus ke duit syubhah ke

Kan najib ketua Umno pelindung pejuang umat islam dan melayu

no check account one
so wouldnt know

These laws only apply to d plebs

It's an open secret thatpolitikans n elites been raking in cash, songlaping kao2 since 80s. Mo1 n his gang only in crosshair becos they got a bit 2 greedy one shot sapu besar2, n becos insulted ahmak by cancel his son n sold p1.

Wat he saying is not he dint know, but that the is how msia has been since 80s so why all d attention on them?

As far as they concern they were Jes playing same game ahmk n his gangs played of amassing personal wealth at expense of public.

respect for the defendant lawyer. takes a lot of effort not to laugh at the reasoning used. lul.

Unexplained huge sums of money in your bank account = money laundering.

Magehai najis, if rapist will say the puki come inside my kkc and how do I know if this person is a person I know?

You think they belip he is innocent? They just frustrated with PH. Don’t get it wrong

12 bulan tokey judi masuk duit akaun..
dan tak perasan..
Bodo laa police ni....
aku 1 bulan duit curiga masuk akaun pun dah gelabah

from what i see, if your personal account have daily transactions of thousands of ringgit.. i believe it's hard for you to pin point every 100-200 ringgit right?

in this case, unless his account is used to do billions of ringgit in transaction everyday, there is no way you won't know a RM2.6b pop up in your account. Hell breaks loose in the bank and BNM too as the transaction will be flagged before it can be processed.

so if he does billions of transaction daily, then the focus is no longer 2.6b... it would be his whole account to be scrutinized for money laundering... else if there was no billions in daily transaction, then he is an idiot that don't even know how to manage money in the first place... irony being a minister of finance before this, and super apparent by looking our economy went down the drain during his tenure.

bodo lawyer...

1. they already know it's sumber haram.. even najib announced it himself when he said "he thought it was from arab prince", which means he might not known on that fateful day of transaction, but now he knows.
2. bnm called up to verify the transaction.. but it went thru... so who gave the authorization?

from this lawyer bodoh example... looks like he used to have spare money banked into his account on monthly basis.

ini macam ah. need pendakwa proof wang haram. sendiri tak payah proof dapat wang halal

aduii bodo betui loyar ni
1cent masuk pun ada record la. tak reti debit/credit ker?

Lolz. So many "Lawyer" today.

Bapak Tak Tahu Negara

wow jeez aah memang aku biasa sangat tak perasan ade beratus2 juta masuk. tak persan sebab gaji aku 1 billion tiap tiap bulan. WTF kind of argument is this

Wah like that say. If got people bribe me put money in my account, i say i dunno, habis cerita????

Loyar buruk: Cakap tak tau jer, dah boleh lepas

Dato Udang: Selagi tak kena tangkap, tak salah pun

Why I got the feeling this guy is actually SeijiSeimura84?

He is sejiseimura.

He's a hospital GP

If your personal account does 100+ transactions every day, and in billions, you are richer than Bill Gates and Warren Buffet combined.

I wish najib supporters would be more intelligent: a strong bn opposition is good for the country. But the arguments here.... i dunno man.... if PH is pakatan hancing, then these dudes are drinking kencing najib by the gallon and declaring it sedap beb. What is the difference between you and ph zombies if you insist on defending the indefensible?

Tak tahu now tak sedar lol

no need to spread hate just because different opinion lah....
. lets wait till the final conclusion.. than we see who will have big laugh. more fun right?