I'll get straight to it. I wanna talk about this SMM (and their moves), flying spaghetti monster and license actually. Is "flying spaghetti monster" discussion allowed now? As you know flying spaghetti monster isn't 'quite yet' a free server anymore, it's been acquired by SMM, license holder for blizzard. Am I allowed to make this discussion? Not gonna discuss dota, merely license-related only.

in before thread closure!

i'll stay sceptical and i'll expect immature statements/critics/sermons/curses will fly all over the thread if any sensitive issues brought up.

p/s: what you wanna discuss on the license anyway?

good luck, pal.

anyone wanna discuss the acc stuck thingy..?

First of all, SMM is NOT a "license holder" for Blizzard; There is no such thing. They are basically the official distributor of Blizzard titles in Malaysia and are given the right to sue anyone that infringes on these games.

This however, does not give them the right to create "hacks" (Which is essentially what these 3rd party servers are) for their games. Reason being that it bypasses their authentication servers which check for CD-key authenticity.

Unless someone gives official word from Blizzard themselves, no discussions will be allowed here.

Good someone just start the move, I'll do a little followup
Well there is something to discuss about these license stuff, can I sue SMM with these proof?
http://www.sendspace.com/file/zf5zle
http://www.sendspace.com/file/gkvvuj

SMM making profit through unauthorized local private servers
Support original, do NOT play in private servers
Please shut these servers down

This is exactly what I'd like to discuss. I mean this SMM uhm.. acquired this flying spaghetti monster and they also run smmdota, which I believe utilizes PvPGN. Yet, they distribute this blizzard games and claim they hold the rights to whatever blizzard... yet from what I've read ages ago, Blizzard shut down these pvpgn servers where they can.

Now, as far as I know, SMM is commercializing blue, and they are gonna make it usable to ONLY cybercafes that pay. Now, this don't sound right at all. if its gonna be free, that's not that bad... since it's an open-source server. Yeah, still illegal as blizzard claims. But now, they wanna earn money off this 'illegal' server, and yet they hold the rights to blizzard.. Someone tell me, is this even ethical... I called up one of the smm agents.... they tell me "How can you say that... as in, how can you play for free? you need to pay to play" bla bla bla. It just didn't feel right at all.

But that brings another issue. Player control. Dota is full of leavers and I sure would love to hell know why these leavers exist. What's the answer? How do we control leavers? Playing on uswest-- they can just keep recreating new accounts.

I feel a lot of these issues also has to do with blizzard, they should allow 3rd party servers unless they themselves are able to control leavers, which they definitely won't. If i were them i won't either. It'd be so nice if its like counter-strike. You can make your own server, but yet it connects and authenticates your cdkey.

I do hope that, if they wanna do something, might as well close down all pvpgn servers running in malaysia, rather than earning money off it. With all due respect to SMM... I don't mind paying for WC3 license, but I seriously don't know what I'm doing with all the titles they've been giving us, it all just seem to cost a lot.

I really wonder if Blizzard is aware of their actions... oh well.. Life sure is hard.

---

Added on June 18, 2007, 3:57 pmsince when and where did you receive these? Where are you from? got msn? or something? pm me

This post has been edited by biatche: Jun 18 2007, 03:57 PM

The only way that i can think of that could prevent leavers is to change the player's mentality or change certain aspect of the gameplay.

Other than that,there are no way.

Wow, this is... a new low for them. First I heard of them claiming royalties for World of Warcraft (Which they don't even distribute) and now this.

Hmmz....Charging for something open source available on the net....not their own IP....draconian licence terms and pricing....sounds like Blizzard would be kinda interested in knowing about that. Suing them would be another matter though, considering the current state of malaysian IP protection. I don't think it would hurt to have a different distributor though, since i've heard some not too savoury stuff about the current one.

As for player control, Blizzard does have it. It's called the ladder system.

hehe, I like to remain anonymous at the moment. God knows what will happen to me if SMM got my personal details

Nah it is not new, its already there for months. I was not suprised when they use such cheap business tactics for personal gain.

This post has been edited by strace: Jun 19 2007, 03:32 AM

Can't even have a peaceful, safe, fair life in malaysia even in gaming eh? Yeah, I'd probably stay out of it too at the moment. I just had to know what people think and if there's anything we can do about it. At the moment... I guess we just need to play their game.

FSM? wat's that? the only company that can sue SMM is blizzard itself.. and unless someone report those private servers to blizzard, nothing will happen

then by all means, report them to Blizzard!
I've done that but it has to be contact through snail mail. Anyone willing to assist?

this server still active,
not bad

yeah but that isn't what we're discussing right.

This discussion doesn't deserved to be buried or forgotten. Proofs of commercializing private servers from local distributor is all in here. Please make full use of it. Either private servers are legalized or distributor's wrongdoing, You decide.

pin topic please

Well, don't seem like there are too many unhappy folks here. Just you and me. Heh. What can we do strace?

as long as flying spaghetti monster is free to play in my home, i dont care what smm want to do. lmao.

How do you do it?Care to let me know how?

All these private server should be shut down.They are not respecting intellectual property.

Last I heard PvPGN is legit. Loader's that modify the game aren't.... but earning off pvpgn should be illegal.

Our famous aqua colored server down south is running off PvPGN.

It has been around since Starcraft (Called FSGS IINM) and it was NEVER legit. It basically allows someone to host a B.Net style server on a PC, hence the reason its illegal.

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/archive/index.php/t-36621.html

thru google they say its legal? :/

Erm, only one guy contested that it was legal and even he didn't say nothing. BTW, this is for WoW, so not technically relevant.

Blizzard has ALWAYS clamped down on all server emulators for all their games. They've NEVER allowed it.

If i understand it correctly, creating and hosting the emulator is not illegal. Connecting and playing it with the game is.

some said that if you are running it for money, then it is illegal.

any ideas what we can do at the moment? these powerful agents make life very difficult for us.

why difficult ? im still playing for free here in my home.

exactly.. why care when it dusnt harm us? no offence lol

not exactly.. why don't care when it harms a certain group of people? no offence lol

Anyway
You need to write an official letter to them via conventional mail to:
Blizzard Entertainment
P.O. Box 18979
Irvine, CA 92623

All supporting documents about them profiting from private server are here below
SMM flying spaghetti monster User Agreement
SMM SMMDota User Agreement

You probably need to print them out & attach it together with your letter
PM me if you need help for contents although my essay writing skill sucks

Here below is the original EUA for SMM, it might be useful so I uploaded it just incase.
http://www.badongo.com/file/3978331

hopefully ur effort pays lol

I one man not enough, thats why I need anyone/everyone that can help.

Anyone wanna write out a format so that we can all follow?

in the smm agreement pdf, at the end, how come they charge according to number of pcs? So this means the cc owners pay smm to connect to bs?

^
dirty money and yes

dude can you pm me all the details? i talk to blizzard singapore and see if they can do anything with it..... support original please

I heard from some eclub (i think) people they have no right to charge us per pc... and definitely not bs...

how can they charge you something which is illegal?

Yeah, we all know what's right, what's wrong.... what can we do about it... so frustrating living in Malaysia..

All the details are in here
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=12771165
If the links are down, I will upload it again.

AFAIK, SMM's Blizzard license were bought from Asiasoft.

This post has been edited by strace: Aug 19 2007, 10:10 PM

I am sure that Blizzard are aware of what is going on. And they will always be. But probably they are making too much money to even care bout the servers. Its probably peanuts to them. Some Private servers are dedicate towards ethical gaming and provide a wonderfull past time for a lot of the younger generation, people who don earn their own living and probably end up doing drugs and other stuff without them. Just a food for thought.... Not a lot of people can spare a couple of hundred to bucks to buy games when then only get a couple of dollars a day for pocket money!

u r the man, rathishsiva !

Why is it that arrogant bums like you seem to believe that the only frigging past time in the world is computer games? Instead of wasting thousands of Ringgit getting a gaming PC, get a ball and start playing football or go to your local library and borrow their books to read. There are plenty of other hobbies to pick up to avoid getting into drugs, but somehow computer games seem to be the only solution.

I will say this again, if you have a "gaming" PC which costs way more than WC3, how did you afford that then? Hypocrisy at its finest.

Well, thats your opinion.. i fully support the government for taking tough stance on piracy movies rather then softwares/games.. Just imagine, a fully blown Vista costs what? 1k? Where have the kids got that much money? I am no saying i support piracy, what i am saying is that, the choice is up to the individual and i don mind if Microsoft or any other Software house go all out to crack software piracy in Money Making Associations, as , they are making enough money to get all the original stuff.. But if you were to force everybody to buy Original... I doubt there will ever be a Bill Gates born in our country.. Cause i was fortunate enought to be give exposure at a very young age and that is what young poeple need..

And FYI, I am not an arrogant bum as you mentioned... I can afford to buy my ORI softwares ( Games in this matter ) and will do so... Depends on the software and the satisfaction it provides...

Imagine telling a 10 year old kid this " Son, you go the the national libary to read ok? I cannot buy DOTA for you? Too expensive la son "

Good luck in explaining to your son... And nobody was talking bout any gaming pc, even a pentium 3 could run games and a decent Pc, even the one which is being advertised in the landing page of this portal costs what? RM290? And Warcraft 3 costs what? Rm 200? DUH!!! Go figure dude...
Its all bout learning curve, if you don try, you can never learn.. Even playing games helps in developing your reflex and keeps your mind sharp.. and this is a proven study... If you wanna go and play football, go ahead... even that is pretty expensive nowadays dude..

---

Added on August 21, 2007, 12:13 amhehehe.. thanks dude..

This post has been edited by rathishsiva: Aug 21 2007, 12:13 AM

Drugs addiction as cover. Yeah, the most repetitive excuse I had ever heard. Anything new?


Gaming is a luxury not a necessity. If you can't afford it, then do other cheaper things to past time

i support legal games. i do not think paying monthly for legal games for cc operation is very ethical. i heard theres no such nonsense in europe.. at least in france. in fact, they get sponsored by software companies to promote their games in cc.

blizzard does care about earning money only. so they dont really bother making operators happy.. malaysia is probably a small market to them, they probably happy with what smm is doing?

yeah thats the main point here, its all about ethical business.
rathishsiva you can open a new thread to defend gaming for all you care but we are addressing a different issue which has little impact on end users like you. Please don't derail the topic

Look, that was in response to your idea that computer games are the ONLY way for kids to have fun. If I was going to say you're too cheap for using ori, then I'd call you something else
Ok, how's about you replace the word "DOTA" with something like "Golf", "Yachting", "Astro" or "Board Games". Would you then make a call that all these other "hobbies" become accessible to parents of 10 year olds all over the world just because they're fun?

I mean, when I was 10, I didn't have DOTA... Guess what? I had fun with other things.

Like I said earlier, Dota isn't everything and so this "Do anything for Dota attitude" is just childish and selfish.
Learning curve? Learning curve for what?

And last I checked, it didn't cost hundreds of Ringgit to get a simple football.

Monthly operational fees for CC operations is perfectly fine since the games are being used to make a profit. Steam does it and every other CC games licensor in Malaysia does it as well. Its the same rational used when justifying the monthly fees for an MMO.

Its only when this cost is levied for something that isn't even legal.

As for Blizzard caring, the only way they could possible be happy about this is if SMM gives them a cut of the monthly fee they charge for BS (Which is very unlikely)

I don't see this being perfectly fine since many other countries don't have such payment scheme for cc operations. Googled blizzard monthly fee cybercafe don't show me much results except...

Some stuff Rathishiva said is pretty true..... like the learning curve part



altho i couldn't really get what he's trying to imply by saying this.... unless he means he doesn't own legal wc3 =/

I quoted Steam as an example of a monthly payment scheme for cc operation.

Anyway, it is common practice to charge monthly for a product that is used to generate profit rather than just for personal use. Same reason why clubs and entertainment places have to pay a regular fee to use copyrighted music and videos that is used for business purposes and they can't just say "Hey, I bought the product for myself, I can do anything I want with it"

You are looking at countries where generally speaking, gaming cyber cafes (AKA LAN Centres) are not as popular as here since LAN parties are held at a larger scale together with the relatively higher penetration level of broadband and PC ownership.

Anyway, I still don't get what he meant by "learning curve". What exactly is he referring to?

This post has been edited by H@H@: Aug 21 2007, 11:23 AM

train finger muscles i guess lol

In countries like in US or Taiwan, they do not charge via monthly subscription. They will ask you to pay the game for commercial use in 1 go or monthly/quarterly until full amount is payed. Once full amount payed, you can still use them for commercial use. But in Malaysia, charges is monthly based. Game titles are 'rent' to you but once you canceled the subscription, you need to return every game titles to them else it will deduct from your deposit. In the end, there is no sales happened before except for the subscription fees which I'm proud to say is the most expensive Blizzard license in the world. Yeah I did a comparison with US and Taiwan, they are not even near to SMM's draconian subscription charges. Anyway the charges is not really a big issue here, my concern is about milking money via accessing private servers
Anyway I can get someone within UMNO to voice this out in parliament - 'gejala tak sihat cybercafe' and butcher off this business field once and for all but this move very suicidal.

This post has been edited by strace: Aug 21 2007, 11:52 AM

Agreed with strace, plus, in US and Taiwan, if they were to have these monthly subscription thing, they'd be screaming, but anyway, they or at least in USA, they earn a lot more than we do.

In any case, I made this topic is more concerning earning $ off these rogue servers.

H@H@: Learning curve, not sure if its the wrong term, but anyway it does develop your mind and reflex in certain ways.

wow this thread has become a serious thread with all this discussions.

I know what learning curve means, but what the hell was he saying it for? Is he implying that I don't play games and that I suck at them and therefore am talking through my ass about this?

serious cos we want to nail them

Any of here running CC in Malaysia? My friend paying SMM RM3,000 monthly for 60 PCs with 1 Original Warcraft CD supply monthly..!!! SMM is making huge $$$$ from all CC within Malaysia. Any idea about it?

They 'lend' the Warcraft CD to you. You need to return them back if you stop your business operation. Anyway, please inform the SMM HQ about this, maybe the agent in your area is one of those lazy arse type.

Funny thing also, I heard they didn't approve DotA for WCG.... but they approved Wc3... I thought DotA is a free custom map?

DotA is a free custom map, that is partially why it wasn't approve for WCG lol

Yeap, they're not supposed to do that. They could've done it on the grounds that its using WC3, but since that's in use, it seems rather stupid. A good lawyer can actually cut the bullshit in this case as SMM is lying through their ass.

CS was a free mod and it was used in WCG heavily. Don't think anybody needed to pay royalties to anyone for that.

There are already many anti SMM activities going on recently, hopefully that this 3rd party server issue will be one of the agenda. So I'll get a popcorn and sit back for shows

smm close alry rite?

the most important thing is that SMM does give back to the community.

Not yet, still alive and kickin' so far

but that doesn't make it any better than crooks.
try again

I dont think thats true.

IMO,the reason that it's not in WCG is it isnt popular enough in other country.I think it's only insanely popular in Malaysia and Singapore.

next thing i know they'll license ggclient too LOL!

knot access smm server le

lol gg client license then really gg lol.

crooks just steal without giving anything back....................

then tell me your definition of a person who steals and gives back.

Make that as your last reply and GTFO this thread. Your say has nothing significant to anything that has been discussed here as you are at the bottom of the food chain. GB2Dota foo

---

Added on September 14, 2007, 1:17 amSMM is all over the chinese newspapers regarding possible false game license
http://www.nanyang.com/index.php?ch=8&pg=15&ac=769619
http://www.chinapress.com.my/content_new.a...rt=0914mb65.txt
http://www.guangming.com.my/content.phtml?...id=200709130894
http://www.kwongwah.com.my/news/2007/09/14/7.html

The agonist is putting them into judgement day

This post has been edited by strace: Sep 14 2007, 01:20 AM

strace: I don't speak/read Chinese. So, wanna summarize what's happening now?

IMHO, DotA is not any official map for Warcraft. Kept that in mind.

For now, someone with the help of MCA is currently sueing SMM's ass off for unauthorized Blizzard distributor license, when SMM shows the proof, it opens to more problems e.g. illegal collection of fees via rental contract fake as commercial exploitation license contract when it was suppose to clear those allegation. SMM just dig his own grave lol

I think he is aware of that, knowingly in the future it may be like Counter-Strike officially endorsed due to popularity among pro gamers. Luckily DotA doesn't enjoy the same popularity throughout the world as CS

So last I know they are a company with gangster background. I wonder if that guys gonna be alive. How anyway did SMM dig their own grave? Are you still paying your fees now?

The peeps with gangster connection under SMM have long gone as I heard. So far the guy who sue them is still alive, no missing arms, legs or head lol. I'm still paying the fees though, we all are aware that this company isn't from a clean background so you don't know what might happen to your business in the future. Other than the exposure to chinese newspapers, nothing much has happened lately but I heard there will be an update announcement from chinese newspapers again after end of this month.

if this guy happens to succeed then SMM must shutdown all those illegal servers?

It will be Blizzard who shut these servers down.

I don't really care bout the 'illegal' servers, blizzard don't care much either..according to the developers of those rogue servers.... however..... we're losing a lot of money to smm for what appears now something they don't rightfully own

smm...bs...ggclient.. all tis is illegal? ggclient abit diff from bs o.. so it illegal also?

all emulations are illegal

Hmm, IMO, emulators are legal. Just don't run it for profit.

Second, re-program/re-edit(which I don't know) as long as there's a violation rule against the game, it will become illegal. Somehow BS,GG are things that emulates Battle.net

SMM, I don't know(I hate them so much).

But there's a client running(I think they run using the advertisement profit) which doesn't emulates Battle.net but emulates LAN, does it counted in illegal or legal?

GG mangles LAN packets to work over the internet, after all its a VPN client. not entirely legal. but any attempt to make profit through it is illegal.

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/147137

ggc basically is just helping u to create a lan-like network for games. this is not illegal. if the users are using pirated games then they use ggc, then its their fault not ggc. ggc is also faster and less lag compare to battlenet.

So its like Hamachi right?

True enough, its use is not for piracy only, but like Hamachi, the majority of users in this forum are indeed using it to enable their pirated versions to be playable "online".

So, please refrain from advertising networks for this program here. Discussion is somewhat allowed (Like with Hamachi)

What's the status like now?

ggc too many leaver ...and easy delay and lag.flying spaghetti monster better than ggc

so strace? what happened to smm now? any updates?

sorry no updates till now
They probably had resolved the issue with under table money, who knows?

strace: you still paying your monthly license fee?

---

Added on December 30, 2007, 7:06 pmi would seem to believe that. a lot of these monopoly/corruption issues... like smm/tmnet is due to our very government itself.

first of all, a lot of things go out of hand because, you could easily pay corruption money. while that's so, i believe the efficiency of the police and law is very poor, you can't simply sue anyone for anything.. unlike in usa, u can sue everything.

on the piracy end, well, piracy will always happen, but the question is just.. how much. our economy here is poor, people here are generally poor, and are able to feed just themselves. and of course, because of that, people not just wish to pay for lower price for pirated stuff, they also wish to earn money from it.

all these issues start from the government itself.... and a lot of other issues as well...

This post has been edited by biatche: Dec 30 2007, 07:06 PM

If anyone is getting the new 2008 SMM license agreement, please PM me so I can forward it to Mr. Mike Morhaime to read them and discuss the legal issues hopefully, thank you. and if possible sue the living shit out of SMM, hah!!!

This post has been edited by strace: Jan 2 2008, 01:46 AM

wow didnt realize theres such a thread and good people like strace fighting for us players

hope SMM burn in hell or something :/

/freebump
/ralliesmoresupporters

Strace, thanks for referring this thread from the other thread. Discussion here more lively. My view on the server is that pls don't get it shut down because it will be a loss to all of us gamers. As long as we pay the CC offering the server game at RM2 ph, I will stick to it and have no complaint. I don't think SMM or Blizzard will shut it down because these servers help generate interest amongst gamers for the WC game which I think will die off soon but not soon enough. Anyway, I have been to several CC lately but they said the servers are no longer available. Any updates on this?

wake up and realize that this is illegal and this definitely does not benefit blizzard at all and they WILL take legal action once they have something solid and once that happens those said illegal servers will go poof.

are you siding with blizzard or SMM? take a pick, they are NOT on the same side. and from your replies, you're basically siding over SMM, the bad guys that does nothing but take your money, over the good guys - blizzard that created the great game that you claim you love.

Dear Quazacolt, I hope you will be impartial when talking about this subject in a neutral forum. No one shld take either SMM or Blizzard side. We gamers just want to play game at the most affordable price. The cheaper the better and for free if possible. We are not really concern with what Blizzard will do to SMM or vice-versa. Just let us play. If Blizzard want to close it, fine. If Blizzard don't do anything about it, also fine. Gamer is not at the losing end but only people who has vested interest or personal problems with SMM. I think you should sue SMM for all your unhappiness. I thought the forum is for a neutral place for some healthy discussion and not some place for personal revenge or talk empty things. As for Blizzard, thanks for the game. For SMM, don't know what to say but be careful where u walk.

If SMM goes down to hell, the RM2 per hour minimum restriction will be abolished. Price per hour will be cheap and the market will be restore its own natural flow according to supply demand law. Private servers must go as well. if you want to play with your friends online, hamachi or any VPN tunnel clients should be ok as long as you are not doing matchmaking service through it. Pure matchmaking service should only be conduct by Blizzard authorized servers.
If you love the game, buy it. Right, all dota lovers?

neutral is one thing, supporting whats wrong is another. as strace replied a step ahead of me, SMM going down would mean cheaper cybercafe/original blizz game rates. i thought your all in for cheaper gaming/benefit for gamers? so you are still gonna stay neutral despite all this?

ill be frank with you, im not really that unhappy with SMM or anything, but the fact that they are conducting such low acts, and taking in personal profits out of the gaming population expenses is just wrong.

im a serious gamer, and no doubt such actions by itself is totally unbenefiting to me. my salvation? i dont buy from SMM, i import directly from US thanks to my relatives living in US, and i dont go CC especially those with SMM influence because i have an insane rig.

How much is the US product? I think the local version cost about $200 or so. If it is really cheap to buy from US, we should all buy from US.

http://www.tsb.com.my/product.cfm?id=778
RM139 excluding process+courier charges

Or you can get it from the Singapore distributor, please request for cybercafe license agreement while you're at it

its cheaper, but you will have to pay rm80-150 shipping charges. so best to have a few friends/relatives etc to buy along, or buy few copies yourself and sell it off in msia when it arrives.