Hi all

In this dilemma and dont know how to solve just sharing for experience and advice....

Background
My house underwent major renovation & completed last year. Throughout the renovation there were problems (such as leaking on common wall) which contractor rectified throughout until the fateful day when he ran away.

By then the major problem (leaking) had been fixed, so once I finished the job (engage different worker) I engaged the same worker to do the painting, plastering and other cosmetics required by them. I asked the worker to check with them upon completion to make sure it was satisfactory. After 2 days, the job was done and he left.

Not long after I received a note from them asking me when I was going to complete the remaining repair works. I replied saying I thought the worker confirmed with you before he left, you should double confirm whatever needed to be done as per our understanding. Some of the items mentioned were not part of the original "cosmetics" list.

Fast forward around 5-6 months later, I receive a letter of demand from their lawyer, claiming RMx amount of damages, including nuisance, and negligence, as if I purposely did all this problem to them. By this time, it is already almost 9-10 months after completion.

FYI: my neighbour is legal background holding senior position in legal dept in a commercial firm.

Claims
This is the list of items claimed:

1) metal grinding dust kena their car, causing stain, rust. It must be more than a year by now.
Previously: said he don't mind polishing the car himself.
Now: he will only "try" to polish, if cannot, he will still claim from me. I don't think he did any polish at all because he said he wanted to "keep the evidence". I never seen those rust or dirt personally.

2) crack on the cement outside their porch gate (outside the boundary of the house).
The crack already there previously. He claims the line became "bigger" and the damage "worse". Visually, I can't tell the difference before and after. He want me to hack off the entire front, put metal mesh, and redo cementing.
Note: during reno, I offered to pave for them as I was redoing my area but due to the above demand end up couldn't fulfill.

3) tiles in the porch "stained". i tried but i couldn't notice any "staining" other than the natural aging and dirt accumulation. even my brand new tiles have become so black and dirty in just over 1 year. this property has been around for decades.

4) parquet flooring near the common wall area need to be re-varnish and "regrinded". this item alone want almost 3k. I have not personally seen it yet. but I feel 3k maybe can even redo the entire room flooring.

5) their gutter leaking and dripping water (causing annoying sound) - new claim. without admitting to any guilt, I got my own roofing person to check, and the quote is only 2/3rd of the price.

I had a discussion with him to try and settle this thing. The total amount claim for the actual physical damages is less than RM10k. We manage to almost reach an agreement (despite all the un-sureness whether it is my fault or not), but then.... he told me I have to be liable for the next 7 years if any damages happen (even after paying this now). How can I agree to jaga his house for 7 years. I am not his father.

Note: the 7-year law he mention is called "latent defect".

Conclusion
When I started reno, was well aware of the inconvenience that may caused to surrounding neighbours. I had given my contact, my contractor's contact, and visited the site almost every day and weekends sure there. I always entertain their request (both side neighbour) and put their complaints first, even if it means my house work stop that day.

My neighbourhood also think I'm a scumbag because some of them actually ask me why I damage people's property and refuse to repair. But they don't hear my side of the story.

Now I don't know what to do....

This post has been edited by dilemma99: Oct 31 2018, 12:41 AM

If me i hire some XXXX ethnicity people gave him some driveby painting over his car and front porch

less than 3k can have extensive work done, best if u hire a middleman to do for u. The middleman and the worker can be very forgetful which somewhat a good thing

This post has been edited by MCBFUHO: Oct 31 2018, 12:51 AM

you can disagree with the latent defect liability or reduce to mabbe 1 year.

else have to hire a counsel and trash it out in court lor.

Throwing paint on their porch, dun forget they can do the same to you too. just ignore advice from uncivilised ppl in this forum (and there are many). cheers

if you have offered your service to repair, they cannot claim MONTHS later after it's resolved.

by giving legal letter, it's as good as back stabbing your offers. and if he wants you to take care for 7years, its as good as telling him you own the place for 7 years. means if he want to use, then he needs to pay you rentals as you build and maintain at your own costs. who is to guarantee you within these 7 years that lawyer won't damage "your" items?

BTW the same latent defect claim can be used against him as the defect might occur even before you started renovated your house.

latent defect
n. a hidden flaw, weakness or imperfection in an article which a seller knows about, but the buyer cannot discover by reasonable inspection. It includes a hidden defect in the title to land, such as an incorrect property description. Generally, this entitles the purchaser to get his/her money back (rescind the deal) or get a replacement without a defect on the basis of "implied" warranty of quality that a buyer could expect ("merchantability"). Even an "as is" purchase could be rescinded if it could be shown the seller knew of the flaw. (See: warranty, implied warranty, product liability)


this clause can only be used between seller and buyer. basically if this idiot lawyer neighbour uses this in court. he will be laughed at.

Counter sue and see how far he willing to go...

ask for proof, everything submit to court needs to be quantifiable and verifiable, i.e. picture of the tiles before and after, gap of the cement.
If you settle with him, your the other neighbor may ask for compensation too. So be careful on that.

counter sue ...

Just go to court and play the lawyer game la....no need to be afraid of him.... he is using this as a tool to make you bow to his demand... set a baseline for yourself... if he don't agree.. then said that you will pass your case to a lawyer.... he will definitely get less that what he is asking.

Even if really go court case, he is sueing, so he will need to provide all the facts and details... and I doubt he has... even if he saved all the details.. it can easily be counter.

Thanks for sharing your opinion and helping me widen my options and thinking.

Previously, I have hired a lawyer to reply the 1st demand letter (basically going point by point to explain / counter their claims), but they just replied 1 liner after that deny everything we said.

I have google latent defect previously too but not too much cases in Malaysia. Only a few between developer and buyer (as rightly mention above, is between buyer & seller). However I am not well verse in law, so I don't dare to assume anything. Base on lawyer advice, he don't think it can be applicable (however, this lawyer is not specialise in this area, I only know him, don't have other lawyer contact).

My worse fear is go to court, as even if he lose, he may cause me to spend a lot on legal matters. He did mention he plan to go all out and ensure this thing affect my CTOS, and leave a black mark on my records. And next time I will face prob applying loan or other things.

Now is even I pay him (even I feel I dont deserve to) he still can do all this, what for I pay him at all? I want to reach a settlement, but he wants too much. Maybe really have to go to court? (I want to avoid this)

Further elaboration on the outside cement part, since I redo my cement, my area is slightly higher than his (previously flat). This cause sand to accumulate at their side and is one of their complaint also. And I can see they purposely leave that specific area and refuse to sweep it, causing all the leaves and sand to clog up the hole and causing water ponding.

Pls note between now and previous there is just a small drainage hole, I did not cover up or anything. The first time it clog, I asked him if I can enlarge it, he said don't make it too big. This process go thru 2 times because we want to avoid too big and ugly drainage hole. However, if they dont sweep the place it will still clog up as the area has many trees.

Will I be responsible for this sand problem on their place (because my place is around 0.5 inch higher after repaving) so the sand doesnt come to my side anymore) or is it reasonable to expect some minimal care and sweeping once in a while. In fact I couldn't even foresee this kind of stupid sand can be a problem like this. My intention just to repave and renew the area outside my house, which also filled with crack lines.

This post has been edited by dilemma99: Oct 31 2018, 02:44 PM

The problem is all this offer previously are verbal discussion. Who thought to keep all this conversation in case I get sue in the future.

just ignore him.

there is nothing he can do to u legally, even CTOS thing is bullshit.

In legal contexts, he needs to find evidence that you are guilty first where you answer by giving proof that you are not.

By answering your proof now basically allow him to reverse engineer and point the liability at you. Therefore you should stop any correspond with him.

Everything on verbal will skew the case positively to you in term of resolving the matter nicely (assume you still want to stay there), dont leave paper trail.

This post has been edited by chamelion: Oct 31 2018, 03:07 PM

just ignore the fella

sell me the house....

Counter sue them for emotional distress and spreading false accusation to the neighbourhood

Anyway, you are innocent until proven guilty. Your neighbour will need to have third party verification with sufficient engineering and construction support to proof their points. The court does not operate on just hear say without getting professional advise.

Shouldn't even have replied in the first place. Just ignore.

Being neighbours until like this.. just very jackass. He would also need to prove to the court that he tried to contact you to resolve the matter and that this was the last resort. Which, if based on your side of the story isn't true.

So...either 1 of you are a jackass.. I wouldn't know who.

Thanks for the advice. Will need to think further how to approach since already initiate the contact and replied (formal lawyer reply).

Thanks. U are being very neutral which also help as this is the word of a stranger in the net. As I spend all my money on this house, I do intend to stay for a very long term and to kick start the stay with enemy neighbors is the last thing on my mind.

I do try my best to entertain them throughout, and ensuring the contractor always listen to them and rectify their problem first.

As of now, Im not sure if ignoring is the best option, as I mention I will need to check on the price of their claim first. They are waiting my reply.

Maybe I really dig my own grave already.

If you have no intention of reimbursing them for their claims, you wouldn't check the price of the claim. The fact that you have such intention (of reimbursing their claim) would substantiate the claim. That allows them to build a case against you.

The lawyer you engaged is a total noob if he didn't know this.

ignore

Agreed with you, Slimey. As long as you have gained your CCC from the local municipal council, nothing else matters. Legal letter issuance does not means that he has a case.

Yeah it is best to ignore. It's not easy to claim this kind of thing in court. But I think it is better if you verbally said okay you will do. But then you keep dragging then never do anything. Just keep delaying the process, like say next three month, contractor run away suddenly, etc.

you're too nice to him. he got no case, try to ignore him and dont engage to any conditions.

his only case if tht he got photos and video the before and after. if he dont, his threats are just as hollow s hi brain.

and also, make your walls higher on both sides so that you cant see your neighbor. I feel for you, this is not the way to start living in a new house, neighbours like these are pests.

Thank you all for the advice. Yes, it is really a bad way to start living in new neighbourhood. Very sad it start like this, cause so much stress.

I really do consider make my wall higher, even stand outside to sweep or wash car also don't feel like. The negative feeling is too strong.

Some of the item are cheaper to redo rather than going through court.

Such as redo your pavement. Their leaking gutter. Etc.

Second to that, try to get certified person to acknowledge your construction. Civil consultant etc.

This type of neighbour will try to force u leave the neighborhood so they can buy over your property and make it theirs. Seen this done before.

Can you share how you finally settled the issue? Did it ever go to court?

Complaint to Bar Council and let the Committee judged his bullying behavior