Hey guys, thought I'd just post a thread on one of the most over-used lead playing techniques... the Sweep Arpeggio!


First question, how do you guys play your 3-string sweep arpeggios?

Like this?

Figure A


E--12--8-----------------8----
B----------10--------10-------
G--------------9--9------------
D-------------------------------
A-------------------------------
D-------------------------------


Or like this?

Figure B:


E--12--8-------------8-------
B----------10----10----------
G--------------9--------------
D------------------------------
A------------------------------
D------------------------------


I hate playing just one note on the lowest string (Fig B) because I can't up-pick the G-string and then down-pick the B string fast enough... but it seems more like a proper arpeggio than Fig A with the double-picked note on the G string...

Views and comments welcomed.


P.S.
All you tappers (the one hand and 2hand variety), stringskippers, legato-ers, overhand-ers keep out!

P.P.S.
Watch out for the Yngwe police!

This post has been edited by mournblade: May 31 2007, 08:09 PM

I think it all depends on the grouping of the notes...
Fig A has 7 notes, either you play a seventuplet in a quarter note, or group it in 3 and 4 or 4 and 3 in two eighth notes.

Fig B can be played with just a simple sixtuplet in a quarter note.

I think it all depends on which note you want to accent.

The second question:
How do you sweep pick?

One kick-a$$ malaysian guitarist recently let me in the secrets of the way he sweep picks...

He actually mutes all the notes, but it's not that audible when played fast. And he angles a little on his picking angle, to let the pick glide across the strings. John Petrucci's way of sweeping is quite hard, he doesn't really mute the picked strings with his picking hand (as described above), so the fretting hand need to keep up with the rolling and muting technique to keep everything nice and clean. And JP's picking angle is almost 90 degrees, that means JP digs in real deep when he sweep picks!

or like in Glass Prison on Gigantour. . . you bloody alternate pick the damn appregio xD

but of course thats off topic. . .

i've never been able to sweep well. . . sweep and tap are the things that i really have to work on. . . it sucks so bad i'm actually embarrassed to play it. . .

the thing is that there are so many different ways to sweep and it's for you to find out which suits you most. . .

i try to sweep hard but i can't get both hands right so it sounds like crap and when i sweep soft it lacks definition and tone. . . =(

Rossie any tips?

and i notice some people sweep in a circular motion and some sweep up - down. . .

I think you've nailed it there... There are so many ways to sweep the floor... oh no, I mean sweep pick, that everyone should go through them and find one method that's comfortable.

I've always thought that if I follow JP's instructions, I would never go wrong. But I always can't seem to get around his sweep picking. And never really bothered to practice it till I encountered a few sweeping parts in SFAM. There's one part of Fatal Tragedy that I always practice on when I sweep pick:

-----------14-18-21-18---------------------

---------14-----------19-------------------

-------15---------------18-----------------

-----16-------------------20---------------

---16-----------------------21-16-14-------

-14----------------------------------15-14-

It's basically a F# major barre chord shape running into an open-d-major chord shape played in F# major too.

I have never seen JP played this lick in this song correctly in DT's live shows. He only did an up and down on the first F# barre chord. It's just too freaking fast to play.

^
that is one crazy lick. i cant even play a simple c major sweep lick yet

Goodness that is one sick looking lick/series of arpeggios! Just wondering, all the notes on the 1st string are picked or slide from F# to Bb then hammer on C# pull off back to Bb then swept downwards? Or is the C# tapped?

And the notes on the A string...21st to 16th fret..that is quite a stretch!
No no no, more LIKE 21st to 14th fret!
Rossie we bow down to you!

This post has been edited by valkyrie1232: Jun 1 2007, 08:25 AM

Ha! No la... I didn't add the hammer/pull off/slide notations...
It's actually something like this:

-----------14-18s21p18---------------------

---------14-----------19-------------------

-------15---------------18-----------------

-----16-------------------20---------------

---16-----------------------21s16p14-------

|-14----------------------------------15-14-|

Makes much more sense eh?

Bruuuu-tal...

Hehe, palm-muted sweeps roxxors ftw!

...but only on ascending sweeps... can't seem to contort my right hand enough so I can actually palm-mute on the descending sweep, though...


...ok, maybe I pose question number 2.5...

Do you think that if you get passed a certain speed, there's very little apparent difference between sweeping (properly!) and raking?

Like, take the ultra-fast sweep arpeggios from e.g. Jason Becker's Serrana parts video (AIM clinic?), Rusty Cooley's Under the Influence and other ub3r-l33t-shredders on YouTube... it's hard to make out the low notes on the 5 and 6 string sweeps and pretty much the only thing that stands out are the notes on the first 3 strings...

I'm sure that their playing is clean, but speed and distortion kinda make it redundant... or maybe my brain just can't process the notes fast enough!

Ok.... I have a problem.....
As you all know, I usually play Pentatonics and Blues scales when I solo..... but I always have trouble fitting in sweeping arpeggios into my solos because of that...... an Em Arpeggio doesn't usually fit with my Em Pentatonic for example...
Should I just try harder (or do you have any tips/tricks) or just concentrate on my Pentas and Blues?
Or maybe you can help me out on where should I stop/start my arpeggios/pentatonic or just list down some cool licks?

Listening to Trivium and Dragonforce makes me want to pick up a broom and sweep!
Too bad none of the sweepers coming to the Gathering......

Common lah! This sunday only!!!!

This post has been edited by blacktrix: Jun 1 2007, 11:24 AM

7 string sweep teh r0x0r!

Technically, an Em arpeggio should fit in the Em Pentatonic... the Em arp is just EGB and your Em pentatonic has those notes too...

But you're right, it doesn't really sound like it fits in the Em Pentatonic... maybe because amost no one actually sticks a sweep arpeggio in the middle of a pentatonic/blues solo...

well, there's Malmsteen of course... see particularly Voodoo Chile from his G3 where sweep arpeggios come out of nowhere right smack in the middle of his "blues" solo...

bottom line, Blacktrix: you can do anything you want, as long as you're willing to live with the consequences...


EDIT:
ROXXORS FTW!!!!!!!!!

E|----------------------8-12-s17-12-s8---------------------|
A|-------------------10----------------10------------------|
D|-----------------9----------------------9----------------|
G|--------------10--------------------------10-------------|
B|------3-7-s12--------------------------------12-7-s3-----|
E|---5-------------------------------------------------5---|
B|-5-----------------------------------------------------5-|

But whether it can actually be played is a whooole different story..

This post has been edited by RustReaver4D1: Jun 1 2007, 11:38 AM

That's what I thought initially..... same notes.... should sound good, right? Well... beauty is in the eyes (or in this case, ears) of the beholder... so to me, it sounds..... urgh...... But I suppose you can add in a sweep arpeggio into a blues solo if:
a) you're damn good at it,
b) you know every single scale and lick by heart and super long fingers,
c) you have an ego the size of 5 Death Stars..... and then some,
or d)Your name start with Yngwie and ends with Malmsteen, which means you're all of the above.

You forgot to mention: You eat half a dozen cheeseburgers a day!

Shouldn't it depends on what chords are you playing over??? If you're playing over a Em chord, it shouldn't be a problem.

E|---------------------------14-15-14-------------------------|
B|----------------------16-------------16----------------------|
G|-----------------12----------------------12------------------|
D|-----------15--------------------------------15---------------|
A|------13------------------------------------------13----------|
E|--12--------------------------------------------------12------|

pushing sweep to the next level ..anyone ?

use it on E minor.something..forgotten . long time ..

push further ? sure


E|--------------------------------------------------------12--17--12----------------------------|
B|--------------------------------------------------10-----------------10---8-------------------|
G|----------------------------------------------7-------------------------------10-7-------------|
D|----------4--h7--4---------------4---h7-------------------------------------------7 h4-------|
A|-------6-------------6----------6---------------------------------------------------------6--- |
E|--5-8--------------------8-5-8--------------------------------------------------------------8-5|


you can use it on a Adim7 to Am7 transaction..




now...this is bullsh1t

valkyrie , everybody here knows that you can execute that sweep easily .
c'mon..admit it


This post has been edited by gapnap: Jun 1 2007, 01:50 PM

Yeah, the sweeping pattern I posted is quite a basic one...

Hey... where's the double-tap in the sweep mou?

see the topic

P.S.
All you tappers (the one hand and 2hand variety), stringskippers, legato-ers, overhand-ers keep out! tongue.gif

KEEP OUT ! scared anot !!

must create one for 'strictly pick everything like a mofo' thread.
you want to sweep? mppj always has openings.
you want to tap? go play the piano.

No lah..... if you want to tap, watch Mr. Bojangles or most of the early Shirley Temple movies.....

I'm a weird one.... I listen to Heavy Metal and watch Musicals as well.........

Wah, gaps also scared... gasp!

Woohoooo! The sweeps that gapnap just posted....inhuman!
I remember you showing me the first figure before...bloody Matthias Eklund sweep or something.


Incidentally, the Young Guitar Demo from Jani Liimatainen has that similar sweep pattern also! Insane la!

Gapnap, sometimes when you're as good as you are, it's easy to forget that some of us are still human.

And no Mr Blacktrix you're not weird. Theatrical Metal FTW ok!

What theatrical metal.........

I just went for My Fair Lady......

If I hit Broadway, will go see Beauty And The Beast and Wicked.... unfortunately my favorite Producers just ended it's run there

But of all the big name broadway musicals, Phantom of the Opera is probably the most "metal" of them all..... heck.... even Nightwish covered it! It's actually quite a cool riff to play on the guitar...... I bet a sweep picking solo there would fit in nicely as it's very operatic in nature.....

see? see? see? You thought I was going nowhere with this rant.... but still manage to throw it back into topic!

I like Jesus Christ Superstar. . . got some whicked soloing in there. . . lolz. . .

ugh. . . i can't even do 3 string sweeps properly. . . you heroes all doing them 6 - 7 string sweeps. . . =.=

another insane sweep is the one from Neil Zaza's I'm Alright. . . 3 octaves on 6 strings. . . lolz. . .

if you have fingers of an orangutan you can just play aprpegios on one string. . . xD

just happened to stumble across this thread...
good stuff here...
would suggest the TS change the thread to 'recommended guitar exercise' rather than to solely focus on sweep arpeggios...
what say the mod?

Hmm I think I have to start Sweeping on bass

This post has been edited by PetroToxin: Jun 13 2007, 05:57 PM

My furthest...is 4 string sweep. I suck I know ..
I cant get over JP for alternate picking the intro in Glass Prison. WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

LOLZ

gigantour. . .when i saw i was like. . .

BBQ!!! showoff xD

but he is the alternate picking school. . . even steve morse alternate picks his appregios. ..

You mean the intro with the sweeping after the wahwah part?

damnit..i tried it over n over again..wei so hard how to pull of the fret 21 bck to 16..insane la..btw wat u guys mean string skipping?

lol sweeping, becker still give me nightmares. anyone manage to nail prepatual burn and serrana ?

i find sweeping nicer(the sound and tone). alternate picking arpeggios sound too strong. dunno how to explain
sweeping sounds more fluid and natural(thats why i prefer directional picking/economy picking/alternative picking/whateveritscalled)

This post has been edited by SweetTooth: Jun 14 2007, 12:49 AM

Try listening to John Petrucci's Damage Control, especially the lick at 6:11.

If it ain't too fast, I prefer alternate picking arpeggios, gives me much more control.

yeah . . .a gree with rossie. . . more control. . . and the notes have more accent. . . also note that many ppl sweep in blurs. . . i for one still sweep in blurs. . . which i'm still working on. . . meaning all the notes just come and go and you can't really hear whats in between other than the frst and last note. . .

i got a friend who nailed the serrana apreggio. . . one of the best around. . . he started me up with all these speed stuff and he's an insane player. . . he personally knows Zack Kim and they jam together. . . lol. . . and them 2 use PG guitars =.=

Have you tried the sweeping exercise in Rock Discipline?
Nice exercise, but not enough to develop sweeping further, imo, but gives a good explanation of the concept behind it.

i just practice the sweep run in speed kills.. the arpeggio madness part. simple but should be productive i guess

. . . i'm just doing simple sweeping for now. . . just started and i lost my picking power due to MIA from my guitar for 3 weeks. . . gonna take me a while to get back in shape =(

hmmm..i used to sweep in blurs ..and i train up a little , then i get my sweep notes "clear"..

but the thing is ..once you get your notes clear , you cannot get the "sweeps in blur" sound anymore..which i miss it..sooooo much sounds more mysterious

so , i think there is no right or wrong in blur sweeping or clear sweeping , especially at this level ..it all boils down to what you want ..

sweeping in blur... some people might call you a noob for not playing cleanly =/

...if your slow sweeps sound like a blur, then ya lah... but at gaps' speed, that's a different story...

e.g. the super-ultra fast 5-6 string sweeps by guys like rusty cooley, francesco fareri, it pretty much sounds like a "blur" - not because it's sloppy, but because it's so bloody fast your brain can only make out the texture of the notes and not the individual notes...

...and technical ability aside, it depends on your tone as well... if you've got a lot of reverb/bass/low-mids in your tone, chances are the ultra-fast sweeps won't sound very distinct...

my RM0.24...

+RM1

so now RM1.24

i think it depends on the song too

like rhapsody , i think luca's sweeps sound pretty blurry , but hey , it suits the whole epic song !

plus , if you are too scared that people might call you a "noob" ..then i suggest don't shred . cause shredders get criticized up and down .stick to FEEL !. woot

This post has been edited by gapnap: Jun 15 2007, 02:28 PM

Haha... his 3-string sweeps sound damn blurry, but I think that's because he's trying to get more like a hybrid sweep/strum sound from it, so it'll sound more like a chord than an arpeggio...

But his 6-string sweeps, especially off tracks like "Land of Immortals" sound quite clear...

Anyway... +RM5.76

So now RM7.00 FTW!

Pain!

Watched both of their videos again; don't forget Chris Impellitteri...


Sh*t, I've got to go practice...

Who? Luca Turilli? Rusty? Francesco?

I've only seen Suspension by Francesco (who was recommended to me by good ol' EQ777, who said Francesco is faster than Rusty... he is! ).... overall, IMNSHO I think the song sucks balls compared to Rusty...

Rusty...

In terms of speed, Rusty is to Francesco like what BB King is to SRV.
But Rusty tapaus Francesco in terms of feel... Francesco's vibrato is sickening... sounds like Kirk Hammet, if he could shred at 1337-nps...


EDIT: Hope I don't get flamed for dissing Kirk Hammett... I'm sorry... but not really...

This post has been edited by RustReaver4D1: Jun 15 2007, 03:15 PM

i think Francesco is Faster than Rusty , in terms of recordings..

but we don't know the actual maximum speed of Rusty , and the actual maximum speed of Fareri as well

however , i used to attend a shred forum

i forgotten already , cause i no longer active , if i am not mistaken ..its either
guitar 9 , chops from hell or the shred zone

most prob is the shred zone ...this forums , Francesco , Rusty and other shredders actually logs in and participate in the forum , answering fans question etc..

Once there was a post , Francesco told everybody , he saw Rusty's actual speed and his speed is nothing compared to Rusty . oh yea..Rusty seldom post in the forum..

Typical shredder pseudo-humility... hehe...

Yeah, well, Rusty ROXXORZ FTW!

Yeah, I prefer Rusty too, he's much more melodic...
I hear some JP influence in his playing too, not to mention his tone! Reminds me alot of JP...

Suspended... That song sounds just so wrong...
Chris Impellitteri is just sick... The old school of speed maybe?
I read somewhere that Chris Impellitteri got dissed at sucking at guitar, so he decided to be the fastest player alive...

Hehe... Chris Impelliteri is pretty sick, but yeah, a bit old-school sounding.

...someone must've dissed Rusty pretty bad for him to that fast now!

I actually prefer Chris Impelliteri's music though, minus the solos...
I like that kinda music, I'm no metal-head...

hmmm well Rusty started the 7 because JP intro him to it. . . so yea. . .

and 17th Century Chicken Picking!!!!!

lolz good warm up song. . . has everythign in it. . .

and i like Impelliterri's classic rock metal feel. . .

Chicken picking? You've gotta check out Albert Lee if you haven't...

EDIT: AL brings a whole new meaning to "playing fast and clean"...

This post has been edited by Rossie: Jun 16 2007, 11:08 AM

lmao. . . stupid shred durst. . .xD

i suck at chicken picking. . . the movement makes my arm uncomfortable. . .

the angle also. . . owh well . . .

my guitar won't be done till nxt thurs. . . lol. . . sad stuff. . .bored stiff home now =.=

Rossie you heard right 17th century? the riff is so cool lmao. . .

Checking it out now...
I like Rat Race though...

try spanish fire. . . another ganas 1

Just checked out the chicken picking video...
Damn fast... But damn no point... lol...

Try Albert Lee's Country Boy! Find the video of him playing live with a live band... Matt Groening on piano and Sterling Ball on bass!

Okok... Maybe the pianist isn't Matt Groening, but he sure does look like him! lol...

---

Added on June 16, 2007, 10:46 pmDo you guys sweep or alternate the intro of Groove or Die?

This post has been edited by Rossie: Jun 16 2007, 10:46 PM

I just die.

heheh... what's groove or die? sounds like an ultimatum given by a funk band to the bassist...

It's Andy Timmons' shred song...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mIAaAXBtwwI&mode=related&search=

---

Added on June 21, 2007, 4:26 pmHere's Albert Lee's Country Boy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOFpQd7aJ9U

---

Added on June 21, 2007, 4:27 pmI just got the Gigantour vids, JP really did alternate pick all the freaking arpeggios!


This post has been edited by Rossie: Jun 21 2007, 04:27 PM

As EQ would say: i c i c XD

Erm... I don't really get it?

i wish i could play Groove or Die

This post has been edited by SweetTooth: Jun 21 2007, 05:59 PM

LOLZ. . . !

ic ic xD

it just sticks. . . and Gambale is another sick sweeper. . . lolz. . in a way unorthodox. . . i like. . . the way he approaches sweep is very different

Nuff said...





eh... one thing that's been bugging me about some sweepers. Sometimes I see guys like Francesco Fareri and Shred Durst and Gapnap (yep, good ol' Gapnap ) sweep, they pick over the fretboard itself, especially when doing some ub3r-saiko-1337 sweep-taps.

How the #*$&(# can you control all the string noise etc. when the tension over the fretboard is so slack??

This version seems pretty sloppy compared to the album though...

this guy's cover is amazing http://youtube.com/watch?v=xEtXQxVAkZY&mode=related&search=

This post has been edited by MetalZone: Jun 22 2007, 03:22 PM

i'm having trouble muting the strings while sweeping. always get a lot of string noise

I think they'll reply:
PRACTICE...


Seriously, JP's sweep... Quite sloppy too...

Yeah, I think so too. But I think it's the tone though...
Doesn't look like what AT normally play through...

Thanks, Sherlock! ...but I guess I had that coming...

My name ain't Sherlock! My name's John... nevermind...



My name does start with a "John"

Ok then.

John. Be Good.

why is his keys lyin on the floor?

and John does sweep rather sloppy.. . most of his known mistakes are his sweeps. . . he screwed it in Glass Prison (Gigantour) Lie and one more i forgotten. . . he even admitted if im not mistaken. . . lolz. . .

he picks like mad but his taps and sweep sometimes inconsistent xD

but still rapes me alive

John Petrucci's sweeps are sloppy ?

you gotta be kidding me mate....how high is your standards actually ...

imo...this "guitar stars" once in a while...out of 10000 videos you saw..surely got some mistakes wurt..they are still human , but just because of that 1 video , very unfair to call him sloppy right..

haha agree. . . xD

but he hardly sweeps and picks xD

unlike some who do it for a living lol

I just love that picture of him...
Very Godfather-ish...



Thanks for agreeing with me EQ...
But I think JP's biggest mistake was this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akblY-NuCkA

Hehe I clicked on the link you posted, Rossie and there was another Youtube video link entitled 'Have you forgotten how to play Universal Mind, Petrucci?'...I couldn't resist!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJrC_Gb9GHQ...related&search=

Oh my goodness, that was uber HILARIOUS! Ahh..nice to know that he's still human...

Hahaha... That was really funny...

HE DIDN'T FALL OFF THE STAGE! HE TIME WARPED YOU GUITAR NOOB!

lol. . . .

and as he put it. . . his gear would automatically play for him xD

he forgot the riff so he travelled 5 secs into the future to practice

you should watch the one where LaBrie runs out all ganas and amuk all and falls flat on his face. . . lol. . .

the cool thing is he managed to get in where he left off. . .xD

aside: speed kills 3 is out...
http://www.metalmethod.com/lead-guitar-les...eed-kills-3.htm

i saw one where he fell down... but run amok one?

this one is hilarious too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiORe-dcjSI&NR=1
Portnoy's reaction was priceless... LOL

we've turned this thread into DT's bloopers lol...

eh? since when did levin play for dt?

aahhh icic

Check out his site... and his views on sweep picking... damn, I thought Malmsteen was full of himself!



But between Malmsteen and Gambale, who recorded songs with sweep arps first?

This post has been edited by RustReaver4D1: Jun 25 2007, 04:09 PM

Malmsteen made it famous. . . Gambale did it a long long time ago and people thought it was a gimmick or it was tapped like EVH. . .

the problem was gambale was very jazz influenced and so his music was not entirely mainstream. . . then along came Yngwie and he started doing those rock stuff with it. . . so yea. . . Gambale deserves some credit. . .

Off topic, but any good videos or websites you guys recommend for sweep picking. Been practicing for 3 weeks, got down 3 string sweeps already, but just looking for any extra help. Thanks guys.

Try downloading this video...
http://38.103.144.66/files/sweep_picking.wmv

got the link from this site ---> http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/fea...ep_picking.html

hv fun

Haha, already got that video man. Thanks anyway.

3 weeks = 3 string sweeps...

hmmm... in one year = 52 weeks = 52 string sweeps = 5+2 string sweeps = 7 string sweeps ROXXORZ FTW!

I always thought JP's Rock Discipline was a good instructional vid for sweeps... and everything else...

Whatever it is, stay the heck away from Malmsteen's "instructional" videos... damn fun to watch, but can't learn much from it...

RustReaver4D1, you have WAY too much time on your hands, haha. Never seen anyone as crazy about 7 strings as you.

Yea, i just got my hands on Rock Discipline. Thanks for the recommendation. Now i know why Matt Heafy practices along to this video everyday. But JP has a different kind sweep picking style. And i've noticed that the only time he screws up live is during sweep sections. Even God makes mistakes sometimes.

Nah... rarey use the 7th string anyway. But I like the wide neck... helps give my thumb a better grip for sweeps, and it makes it easier to shift positions on the neck.

Supposedly, using the 7th string makes it easier to play sweeps with a larger range in one position... but most patterns involve playing 2 notes on the E string, which is bloody annoying.